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Posted: 8/30/2005 6:09:52 AM EDT
here we have a costal city that is located in a flood and hurricane prone area and it's below sea level. it seems stupid to rebuild it. i understand you have an excellent port and industry but to go back and build homes in the same place where they will flood again is a waste of money. is there any "high ground" within 30 miles of the area where you can build? i can appreciate the historical significance of the French quarter and the garden district but why rebuild the slums?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:11:49 AM EDT
It just needs 'adapted':

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:13:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
here we have a costal city that is located in a flood and hurricane prone area and it's below sea level. it seems stupid to rebuild it. i understand you have an excellent port and industry but to go back and build homes in the same place where they will flood again is a waste of money. is there any "high ground" within 30 miles of the area where you can build? i can appreciate the historical significance of the French quarter and the garden district but why rebuild the slums?



As I pointed out before, N.O. was around before our NATION was a NATION. It is an important city that was built PRECISELY because of its geography. Even in these modern times, shipping channels are important.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:15:07 AM EDT
Rebuild it like they did Galveston after the Great Storm. Raise the city by a dozen feet or so.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:16:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
It is an important city that was built PRECISELY because of its geography.



It's was a fur-trading outpost that kept growing where it was because they didn't know better at the time. Now we do know better, yet we are expect to keep rebuilding there?...
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:17:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

As I pointed out before, N.O. was around before our NATION was a NATION. It is an important city that was built PRECISELY because of its geography. Even in these modern times, shipping channels are important.



Then there's a reason for industry to be there, but certainly not half a million people.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:18:30 AM EDT
The city is sinking and will continue to do so. The modifications we have made to the shipping channels are what caused it to start sinking by changing the natural flooding of the area.

I personally do not think it should be rebuilt but the taxpayer will get strapped paying for what is rapidly becoming the most expensive hurricane in history or at least until the next one..
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:20:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photokirk:
Rebuild it like they did Galveston after the Great Storm. Raise the city by a dozen feet or so.



maybe 20 feet or so. it's up to the roofs of houses. you need that high plus a little more.
the problem is there is no ground. just mud so when you pile rock or mud on top of mud it just settles.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:26:30 AM EDT
Can you say 'Landfill?'

When you live in a bucket, it will, from time to time, fill with water.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:27:56 AM EDT
It should be rebuilt, but NOT where it used to be.


Lake New orleans ought to have some awesome bass fishing in a few years.


(just being practical here, folks. )


Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:29:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
It should be rebuilt, but NOT where it used to be.


Lake New orleans ought to have some awesome bass fishing in a few years.


(just being practical here, folks. )





Storm surge... that would be salt water right?

Uh oh... could there be SHARKS in New Orleans right now!??!

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:30:05 AM EDT
"The foolish man builds his house upon the sand."
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:34:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
It should be rebuilt, but NOT where it used to be.


Lake New orleans ought to have some awesome bass fishing in a few years.


(just being practical here, folks. )





I agree, it won't happen of course.

New Orleans, for the people who have never been there, had a mix of some of the coolest things and some of the trashiest things I have ever seen in one place.

The cool stuff would be missed, but the other.....
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:40:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:45:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:46:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:49:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photokirk:
Rebuild it like they did Galveston after the Great Storm. Raise the city by a dozen feet or so.



I was born and raised in Galveston and work there now. The problem in Galveston today is that almost all major develpoment is on the west end, which is the part not behind the seawall. When the big one hits here, there will be major damage out west.

And as bad a NO may have been hit, you just cannot rebuild a major city like that. NO and Houston are the two major centers of the petrochemical and oil exploration industry in the US and much of the world.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:51:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
After reading this thread, and the other, y'all should be ashamed of yourselves!

Really.

'America' is just a name scratched on your birth certificates at the appropriate place.

That's all.

Y'all have no thought for the history that this City enshrines.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

How shallow. How vapid. How....stupid.

Eric The(TellingItAsItIs)Hun



The history of a disaster in the making? One I'm now going to be asked to pay to fix, just so it can be knocked down again? Sorry, it can rot. There's plenty more monuments to the idiocy of man.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:54:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
After reading this thread, and the other, y'all should be ashamed of yourselves!

Really.

'America' is just a name scratched on your birth certificates at the appropriate place.

That's all.

Y'all have no thought for the history that this City enshrines.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

How shallow. How vapid. How....stupid.

Eric The(TellingItAsItIs)Hun



no, we have thought for how expensive it will be to rebuild a city that has no hope of surviving "the next big one". people have known for decades this would happen and they have done nothing. now we are expected to fork over billions to try to maintain something that should have been allowed to fail a long time ago. as i said maintain the historical districts but accept the slums are a lost cause and let them fall back into the swamp.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:56:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:01:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
After reading this thread, and the other, y'all should be ashamed of yourselves!

Really.

'America' is just a name scratched on your birth certificates at the appropriate place.

That's all.

Y'all have no thought for the history that this City enshrines.

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

How shallow. How vapid. How....stupid.

Eric The(TellingItAsItIs)Hun



Eric, I think we've discussed the fact that I don't much care for shrines - so it should come as no surprise that the history enshrined by NO doesn't mean much to me.


Yes, it will be rebuilt.

But it's still a bad idea.


-arowner(John18:36)again
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:05:05 AM EDT
The history has been reclaimed by the sea and has been swept away.

Rebuilding it would be the same as rebuilding the Buddhas that the Taliban destroyed... it wouldn't be the same. You can't build a brand new, hundreds-of-years-old building.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:05:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:06:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By go3:

The history of a disaster in the making? One I'm now going to be asked to pay to fix, just so it can be knocked down again? Sorry, it can rot. There's plenty more monuments to the idiocy of man.

Ever been to Galveston, my dear Fellow Texan?

It's much, much more likely to be wiped off the face of the earth than New Orleans.

But it wouldn't bother you, as a Texan, IF someone said, 'let it rot'?

So, how long have you been in Texas, and what Northern State did you move here from?



Eric The(NativeLouisianan,NativeTexan,NativeAmeric­an)Hun



we rebuilt Galveston once. i would not support rebuilding it again.
sure we loose a couple old mansions and the opera house. the "strand district" is mostly a tourist trap and i could care less about the butterfly center, eye-max and the other crap there. 10' above high tide and on the coast? sure you have the port of Galveston but with the new terminals going in east of Houston i don't know how viable it is.

take a look at Houston. there are storm levees and all plus it's 50' above sea level and even then if you don't maintain the drainage ditches it still floods.


why build (or rebuild) a modern day city on a sand or mud island at sea level?
and don't say history or nostalgia. my pockets are not that deep.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:13:42 AM EDT
Great topic btw.

Why dont we learn? Because we think we are in control.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:15:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:17:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
It should be rebuilt, but NOT where it used to be.


Lake New orleans ought to have some awesome bass fishing in a few years.


(just being practical here, folks. )




Won't those fish be eating toxic waste?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:23:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By go3:

The history of a disaster in the making? One I'm now going to be asked to pay to fix, just so it can be knocked down again? Sorry, it can rot. There's plenty more monuments to the idiocy of man.

Ever been to Galveston, my dear Fellow Texan?

It's much, much more likely to be wiped off the face of the earth than New Orleans.

But it wouldn't bother you, as a Texan, IF someone said, 'let it rot'?

So, how long have you been in Texas, and what Northern State did you move here from?



Eric The(NativeLouisianan,NativeTexan,NativeAmeric­an)Hun



Then let those that think like you pay for the rebuilding while the more sensible of us reconsider where best to house those people.

Oh... I'm not a native Lousianan, nor a native Texan, nor a Native American.

However, my voice equals exactly the same as yours... one vote.

Regards

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:26:58 AM EDT
As long as they can see a nice set of boobs for the price of a 25 cent string of beads, they'll keep rebuilding it.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:27:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
"The foolish man builds his house upon the sand."



Oh my goodness! I haven't heard that one in years. Very insightful.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:28:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:28:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DDiggler:
The history has been reclaimed by the sea and has been swept away.

Rebuilding it would be the same as rebuilding the Buddhas that the Taliban destroyed... it wouldn't be the same. You can't build a brand new, hundreds-of-years-old building.



o0o0o0o
Point well taken.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:30:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

So, as a Texan, you say just throw up your hands and surrender to the elements?

Do you know that New Orleans has existed for almost 300 years, right where it is?

Surviving devestating foires and hurricanes throughout its history?

So if I read this right, you're saying that just because generations of people lived there and got the snot battered out of them by Mother Nature on occasion that future generations should do the same? If Mother Nature decides to open up a crevasse under your house, you would just put up another one because that "chick" is not gonna beat me?

Much like the Texas cities that I named.

....people have known for decades this would happen and they have done nothing....

Yeah, and Los Angeles and San Francisco are both is lying athwart magnificient fault lines, as well, but we didn't hear those pansies squealing like I have heard from my fellow Texans, this morning!

I suspect that folks in other parts of more geologically stable CA probably bitched when their tax money had to go to fix strutures that continued to be build on fault lines.

Cut it out!

...

Surely you are not going to contribute more than $0.50 in additional taxes to the rebuilding of New Orleans.

Send me your address and I will mail you $5.00, to cover your share PLUS!

Just stop whining!

So are you willing to poney up $5 to everyone in the country who is tired of paying for the rebuilding of homes and structures that are in unstable locations and whose residents refuse to move elsewhere?


Eric The(nostalgic but not very pragmatic)Hun

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:41:10 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:43:10 AM EDT
Here in Commiefornia, people like to build houses on cliffs because they like the view. When the house falls down, they rebuild on the same hill a few feet from where the old house collapsed. Then that house falls down.

If my neighbors house floods, I will help him build a new one on high ground. I will not help him build one next to the stream knowing that it is going to overflow. History or not, it is just plain stupid.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:44:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By hk940:

no, we have thought for how expensive it will be to rebuild a city that has no hope of surviving "the next big one".

Neither Houston, Gaveston, Corpus Christi, or Brownsville, will survive the 'next big one', either.

So, as a Texan, you say just throw up your hands and surrender to the elements?

Do you know that New Orleans has existed for almost 300 years, right where it is?

Surviving devestating foires and hurricanes throughout its history?

Much like the Texas cities that I named.

....people have known for decades this would happen and they have done nothing....

Yeah, and Los Angeles and San Francisco are both is lying athwart magnificient fault lines, as well, but we didn't hear those pansies squealing like I have heard from my fellow Texans, this morning!

Cut it out!

Texas was born in Louisiana! It was at the Grand Lodge of Louisiana, in New Orleans, that the Texas Patriots planned their Revolution in 1836 against Mexico!

Almost a quarter of the men at the Alamo were from Louisiana, or had settled there before the Texas Revolution.

....now we are expected to fork over billions to try to maintain something that should have been allowed to fail a long time ago.

'We'?

Surely you are not going to contribute more than $0.50 in additional taxes to the rebuilding of New Orleans.

Send me your address and I will mail you $5.00, to cover your share PLUS!

Just stop whining!

It's unbecoming a Texan.

.....as i said maintain the historical districts but accept the slums are a lost cause and let them fall back into the swamp.

Oh, yes, that will truly work.

Eric The(Sensible)Hun



Well, it is indeed one of those odd times where I'm actual complete agreement with ETH.

heheh..

Wow.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:52:04 AM EDT
I'm just hoping that nasty smell is now washed away.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:59:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 8:06:58 AM EDT by krpind]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Surely you are not going to contribute more than $0.50 in additional taxes to the rebuilding of New Orleans.

Send me your address and I will mail you $5.00, to cover your share PLUS!


Eric The(Sensible)Hun



Surely you don't think N.O. can rebuilt with a mere $135,000,000?

270 million Americans X your 50 cents.

It will cost many time that amount

ETA, I think that figure will be closer to $100 for every man woman and child that a mere .50
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:00:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
It is an important city that was built PRECISELY because of its geography.



It's was a fur-trading outpost that kept growing where it was because they didn't know better at the time. Now we do know better, yet we are expect to keep rebuilding there?...


It wasn't established as a 'fur-trading' outpost, fercryingoutloud!

You must be thinking of Detroit, or something!



Jean Baptiste Le Moyne Sieur de Bienville founded New Orleans in 1718, as a 'City' to be used as the seat of the goverment for all of Louisiana.

He had picked out this site in 1699, with his brother, Pierre Le Moyne, Sieur d' Iberville, and it was destined to become a magnificient city, indeed.

It was never 'a fur trading post.'

It began its life as a Capital City.

Eric The(Historical)Hun



Those surrender monkies were bail-out queens even back then-

Mobile was first established in 1702, at Twenty-seven Mile Bluff on the Mobile River, as the capital of the French colony of Louisiana. Following a series of floods, the town was relocated downriver to its present location near the head of Mobile Bay in 1711. The capital of Louisiana was moved to New Orleans in 1723 and Mobile was relegated to the role of frontier town and trading post.

Should have stayed put. Also, Mobile had the first Mardis Gras- and it looks like it may have the only one for awhile.

The entire Delta south of NO is sinking every year, due to human activity and the damn NUTRIA, big rats some dumb ass imported for fur and let escape. They are like vegetation Wet Vacs, destroying the plant life that keeps the Delta glued together. Would be a great AR15.com fire mission.

Of course, they'll rebuild. Every year or so the Paint Rock river near me floods and the news babes go out for the obligatory interview of the floodees. "Yeah, I guess I'll rebuild. This is the only place we've ever known." I've often thought a house trailer on pontoons would be a good idea. Some quick- disconnect utility lines and an anchor and you could phone in on your cell phone and tell 'em you've gone fishing.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:01:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

And you will simply be 'outvoted' on this matter.

Welcome to America!

Eric The('Texas'Means'Friendly')Hun



How unfortunate.

Alex The (Friendly Yet Not Impressed By Bombast) F

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:09:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

As I pointed out before, N.O. was around before our NATION was a NATION. It is an important city that was built PRECISELY because of its geography. Even in these modern times, shipping channels are important.



Then there's a reason for industry to be there, but certainly not half a million people.



Welcome to the New Amerika. No one will be allowed to live in a certain area unless they can demonstrate a NEED to live there.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:13:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

As I pointed out before, N.O. was around before our NATION was a NATION. It is an important city that was built PRECISELY because of its geography. Even in these modern times, shipping channels are important.



Then there's a reason for industry to be there, but certainly not half a million people.



Welcome to the New Amerika. No one will be allowed to live in a certain area unless they can demonstrate a NEED to live there.



No, you can live wherever you like. But when the ocean comes in and sweeps everything you own away don't expect me to pay for you to rebuild right in the same spot.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:14:42 AM EDT


The entire Delta south of NO is sinking every year, due to human activity and the damn NUTRIA, big rats some dumb ass imported for fur and let escape. They are like vegetation Wet Vacs, destroying the plant life that keeps the Delta glued together. Would be a great AR15.com fire mission.



Haha, I saw that nutria shit on "up all night with dave attell" no doubt its an issue when thier swat can do drive by's on them

On a lighter note, I see epidemic disease sprouting from all the standing water.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:25:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffC:

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

As I pointed out before, N.O. was around before our NATION was a NATION. It is an important city that was built PRECISELY because of its geography. Even in these modern times, shipping channels are important.



Then there's a reason for industry to be there, but certainly not half a million people.



Welcome to the New Amerika. No one will be allowed to live in a certain area unless they can demonstrate a NEED to live there.



No, you can live wherever you like. But when the ocean comes in and sweeps everything you own away don't expect me to pay for you to rebuild right in the same spot.




I suppose you would take it in stride when your entire subdivision is removed from the planet by an F5? Guys just like you will be telling you to go fuck yourself.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:27:22 AM EDT
Well, let me offer a bit of Louisiana perspective. I live in N. LA so I have not been directly affected, but I know many people in the N.O. area who are now homeless.

I have a travel trailer for sale. This morning a lady called me from a hotel here and asked me if it was still for sale. She and her husband and 4 kids had a home Sunday. Now they don't. All they own is in the suitcases they brought with them They are going to need someplace to live.

So to all of you fucks that say screw 'em, they shouldn't have built there to start with . FUCK EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. YOU COCKSUCKERS MAKE ME SICK.

To you Texans in particular who are bitching. Remember 1836 when Santa Anna was kicking your ass and you needed help from elsewhere? What if those Tennessee boys had said, "screw 'em, they shouldn't have settled there in the first place."?

I thought this was America where we pitch in and help one another in times of crisis. Good God, I think I'm going to barf.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:31:56 AM EDT

Neither Houston, Gaveston, Corpus Christi, or Brownsville, will survive the 'next big one', either.

So, as a Texan, you say just throw up your hands and surrender to the elements?

Do you know that New Orleans has existed for almost 300 years, right where it is?

Surviving devestating foires and hurricanes throughout its history?

Much like the Texas cities that I named.



At least these cities, as well as Biloxi, Mobile etc would have all the water receding in a day or so, but not NO., where they just reported the water to be rising.

It must be rebuilt better or not at all
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:35:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By JeffC:

Originally Posted By Torf:

Welcome to the New Amerika. No one will be allowed to live in a certain area unless they can demonstrate a NEED to live there.



No, you can live wherever you like. But when the ocean comes in and sweeps everything you own away don't expect me to pay for you to rebuild right in the same spot.




I suppose you would take it in stride when your entire subdivision is removed from the planet by an F5? Guys just like you will be telling you to go fuck yourself.



Yeah and if I lived where tornados were guaranteed to hit time after time and still chose to rebuild there, I would say the same thing. Of course if that were the case, I wouldn't live there in the first place.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:37:23 AM EDT
NO will be rebuilt.
The focus however, should be on the improvement of the levees and pumps.
The levees must be at least 40 feet tall and the pumps
should be at least newer than 50 years old.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:38:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
As long as they can see a nice set of boobs for the price of a 25 cent string of beads, they'll keep rebuilding it.



Oh, yeah. It won't take long.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:41:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 8:44:39 AM EDT by JeffC]

Originally Posted By gajones2:
Well, let me offer a bit of Louisiana perspective. I live in N. LA so I have not been directly affected, but I know many people in the N.O. area who are now homeless.

I have a travel trailer for sale. This morning a lady called me from a hotel here and asked me if it was still for sale. She and her husband and 4 kids had a home Sunday. Now they don't. All they own is in the suitcases they brought with them They are going to need someplace to live.

So to all of you fucks that say screw 'em, they shouldn't have built there to start with . FUCK EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. YOU COCKSUCKERS MAKE ME SICK.

To you Texans in particular who are bitching. Remember 1836 when Santa Anna was kicking your ass and you needed help from elsewhere? What if those Tennessee boys had said, "screw 'em, they shouldn't have settled there in the first place."?

I thought this was America where we pitch in and help one another in times of crisis. Good God, I think I'm going to barf.



I never said that the folks that got hit shouldn't be helped. But the wisdom of rebuilding in the same spot time after time with no significant chance of lessening the impact of a futre event is at best, dubious.

And obviously no one remembers 1836. If the independance of TX had failed then things would be different. And if the settelers in TX had gone up against the Mexican Army with harsh language and spitballs they would have deserved to lose.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:46:09 AM EDT
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

No one is saying "Too bad, they built in a dumb place, don't help them." They should be helped to build in a better location, now that we've been on this continent long enough to know better. You have to learn from your (or the French's) mistakes.

Who knows, maybe it would be more economical for the insurance companies to buy up Atlantis New Orleans and have them move a few miles one way or the other.

Or, environmental groups could buy it up and make a huge-ass wetlands out of it.
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