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Posted: 10/4/2004 6:11:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 6:14:25 AM EST by torstin]

..and publicly financing 100% of the 435 million dollar stadium construction? i thought the city was not in the best financial shape. nor do i really see the benefit of a sports team in the area.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:14:23 AM EST
They're not financing it, we are.

They had a team for a long time called the Senators. I think it was one of the teams in the musical "Damn Yankees". Anyway, some politician must have thought that he might get a few more votes if he gave them a team. What the hell do they care. It's not THEIR money.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:21:02 AM EST
No city *needs* a baseball team, and virtually every city is in the red.

But it's a crime against humanity that the capital of the free world - and one of the largest and most affluent markets in the US - doesn't have a baseball team.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:25:14 AM EST
Unless they repeal the gun law, they can count on me not going to a game once they move over to Anacostia.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:29:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:29:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stillie:
Unless they repeal the gun law, they can count on me not going to a game once they move over to Anacostia.




+1
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:30:40 AM EST
The irony is that they are going to bulldoze a whole bunch of gay bars to build the new stadium. The scary thing is that the two crappy public housing developments right next door will not be bulldozed. Yeah I'm going to feel real safe going to night games there.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:32:01 AM EST
I don't know. Why do they have a football team?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:34:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:34:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:36:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By PrivateJoker:

Originally Posted By Stillie:
Unless they repeal the gun law, they can count on me not going to a game once they move over to Anacostia.




+1



Do you carry at the redskins or ravens games?


They pat you down "for the good of the people".

Ball sports suck, real sports have brakes and throttles.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:38:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 6:38:32 AM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

But it's a crime against humanity that the capital of the free world - and one of the largest and most affluent markets in the US - doesn't have a baseball team.




Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:20:19 AM EST
Washington used to have a sports team called the "The Washington Bullets", but the liberals got mad because the name sounded too violent.

Now, it's just called "The Bullets".
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:31:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By rn45:
They're not financing it, we are.

They had a team for a long time called the Senators. I think it was one of the teams in the musical "Damn Yankees". Anyway, some politician must have thought that he might get a few more votes if he gave them a team. What the hell do they care. It's not THEIR money.



Who is "we"? I'm sure politicians have a little to do with the approval process, but the drive behind the move is MLB -- they are in it to make money -- not worry so much about "politics".



I say "We" as in taxpayers. The taxpayers will pay for the stadium. Since D.C. is in the red as usual, I'm sure Federal funds will be used. A new sports franchise is the attraction for potential voters in the surrounding areas. MLB may want a new team, but they're not paying for it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:38:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By LHD:
Do you carry at the redskins or ravens games?



FedEx field isn't across the street from Berry Farms.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:38:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By rn45:
They had a team for a long time called the Senators.



Twice. The first one became the Minnesota Twins, the second became the Texas Rangers.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:39:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:46:00 AM EST
even if funds did come from muni bonds, that dosen't mean the city is paying for it. The people that buy the bonds are paying for it. Most cities actually make money (in excess of the bond sale proceeds) when they issue bonds. Complicated stuff, but I used to have a fun job that involved bond credit enhancement. I won't bore you with the rest.

It does sound like there will be a new tax imposed on the businesses in the city. That's a different issue entirely.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:56:12 AM EST
The District needs a NL team so I can watch the Pirates without having to go back to Pittsburgh.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:11:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Washington used to have a sports team called the "The Washington Bullets", but the liberals got mad because the name sounded too violent.

Now, it's just called "The Bullets".



No, they're the "Wizzards". Fuckin PC sonsabitches.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:39:28 AM EST
My brother lives there. He says they need a team so they can name it the "Greys".
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:43:14 AM EST
Thank you DC for taking this tax boondoggle! Portland was in the running, and I am glad we didn’t get the team. Portland has had quite enough funding local boondoggles such as PGE park and the new Artist’s Repertory Theater.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:47:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Washington used to have a sports team called the "The Washington Bullets", but the liberals got mad because the name sounded too violent.

Now, it's just called "The Bullets".



No, they're the "Wizzards". Fuckin PC sonsabitches.



They were the Baltimore Bullets, but they moved to DC, and thus became the Washington Bullets. Didn't really make sense since Washington starts with a "W", so they became the Wizards. Its not really some elaborate PC thing.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:00:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Washington used to have a sports team called the "The Washington Bullets", but the liberals got mad because the name sounded too violent.

Now, it's just called "The Bullets".



No, they're the "Wizzards". Fuckin PC sonsabitches.



Like in the KKK?!? Like Grand Wizard Senator Byrd?!?

Doesn't sound too PC to me!

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:01:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By gunman0:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Washington used to have a sports team called the "The Washington Bullets", but the liberals got mad because the name sounded too violent.

Now, it's just called "The Bullets".



No, they're the "Wizzards". Fuckin PC sonsabitches.



They were the Baltimore Bullets, but they moved to DC, and thus became the Washington Bullets. Didn't really make sense since Washington starts with a "W", so they became the Wizards. Its not really some elaborate PC thing.



#1. It was a joke. sheesh.
#2. Actually, The Bullets did lose their name because of PC. "Community groups" got together and put significant pressure on the city and the organization and they ended up caving.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:03:55 AM EST
Rather THERE than in MY back yard, (NoVA)

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:07:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By gunman0:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Washington used to have a sports team called the "The Washington Bullets", but the liberals got mad because the name sounded too violent.

Now, it's just called "The Bullets".



No, they're the "Wizzards". Fuckin PC sonsabitches.



They were the Baltimore Bullets, but they moved to DC, and thus became the Washington Bullets. Didn't really make sense since Washington starts with a "W", so they became the Wizards. Its not really some elaborate PC thing.





How long were they in DC as the bullets?

How long did they stay the bullets after doreen gentzler was on channel 4 news talking about how violent names in sports were inappropriate?

Then they had a 1800 number for people to call to vote on the names. One of which was the "Seadogs".

So no, they did not change to keep the alliteration.



Jack Kent Cook told them to take their PC bullshit and shove it. The redskins were keeping thier name.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:14:59 AM EST
We were supposed to get the team here in Vegas.Las Vegas is now the largest city in the United States without a professional sports team.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:22:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
The irony is that they are going to bulldoze a whole bunch of gay bars to build the new stadium. The scary thing is that the two crappy public housing developments right next door will not be bulldozed. Yeah I'm going to feel real safe going to night games there.

GunLvr



Isn't RFK Stadium in a shithole of a neighborhood?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:25:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:32:09 AM EST
This is a bribe, so that baseball can keep it's antitrust exemption. Selig made the decision to do this several years ago, when it looked like the Congress was finally going to get serious about re-examining the issue...by baseball is the ONLY major league sport to still have the exemption. Almost immediately, the deal to move the Expos to DC gained some steam.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it lol.

Have some great memories of going to Senators games back in high school/college. Fake ID, all the National Bo I could drink, and some baseball to boot.

My dad got me tix to the '69 All Star game there, where my man Stretch went yard on the most hated and reviled of all American Leaguers: Denny McLain. Then he banged another dinger off someone else. But the home run Frank Howard hit at another game I was at was truly mammoth...it was still RISING when it hit the upper deck, and dwarfed McCovey's...but Stretch did get the game MVP award for the All Star game. And I got to see Clemente one last time.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:37:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By gunman0:



They were the Baltimore Bullets, but they moved to DC, and thus became the Washington Bullets. Didn't really make sense since Washington starts with a "W", so they became the Wizards. Its not really some elaborate PC thing.



no, it was PC crap...they caved in to a concerted effort to change the name so as not to "send the wrong message to our youth". I remember all the crap when it happened.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:39:56 AM EST

Mayor Anthony A. Williams (D) has said he will come up with a stadium financing package of more than $300 million within days of a decision to move the Expos to Washington. He is proposing generally to repay the debt on stadium construction bonds through a combination of dedicated taxes, including sales taxes on stadium-related items such as parking, souvenirs and tickets, and a new tax on business.


from www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27104-2004Sep16.html


Hearings will begin soon on the city's $440 million package that would include the new ballpark and $13 million for refurbishment of RFK. The money will come from a new tax on the city's largest businesses, a tax on baseball-related income and lease payments by the team's new owners.



from www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/09/30/sports/professional/18_17_399_29_04.txt

All things being considered, the Expos should be contracted. I don't think there is enough of a market in the DC/Baltimore area to support two teams. Hell, the Orioles can barely sell out their park most of the time.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:42:54 AM EST
The simple answer to the original question:

To appease the masses.

If you're drunk and happy at a game, who cares about anything else? Like the crime rate, the deficit, etc.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:50:20 AM EST
Reading an article the other day, RFK is a real shithole, physically, so it's going to take a real chunk
of change to fix it up nice so the Pol's can get their photo-ops w/ the new team....

I echo Bulldog1967's statement about NIMBY, as they were looking at putting the team (if Northern
VA had won the bribe-contest selection process) next to Dulles International, which is right next to
my house. No thanks!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:55:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:01:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tanker06:
Reading an article the other day, RFK is a real shithole, physically, so it's going to take a real chunk
of change to fix it up nice so the Pol's can get their photo-ops w/ the new team....

I echo Bulldog1967's statement about NIMBY, as they were looking at putting the team (if Northern
VA had won the bribe-contest selection process) next to Dulles International, which is right next to
my house. No thanks!



You have no problem living next to one of the largest international airports in the country, but you don't want a ball park?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:08:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:09:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Burley:

Mayor Anthony A. Williams (D) has said he will come up with a stadium financing package of more than $300 million within days of a decision to move the Expos to Washington. He is proposing generally to repay the debt on stadium construction bonds through a combination of dedicated taxes, including sales taxes on stadium-related items such as parking, souvenirs and tickets, and a new tax on business.


from www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27104-2004Sep16.html


Hearings will begin soon on the city's $440 million package that would include the new ballpark and $13 million for refurbishment of RFK. The money will come from a new tax on the city's largest businesses, a tax on baseball-related income and lease payments by the team's new owners.



from www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/09/30/sports/professional/18_17_399_29_04.txt

All things being considered, the Expos should be contracted. I don't think there is enough of a market in the DC/Baltimore area to support two teams. Hell, the Orioles can barely sell out their park most of the time.



Been to lots of Orioles games huh? Maybe because most, if not ALL, of the Orioles fans know, and hate, Peter Angelos for the way he runs his team into the ground? I know at least 8 season ticket holders from the Memorial Stadium days who have dropped their season tickets and have not attended a game in some time due to his "efforts" to screw over his team.

Further, the city will see some debt from the bonds but they will not absorb the full $440M. Need to understand how bonds work.

If San Fran and Oakland can sustain 4 teams {49ers, Raiders, A's and Giants} and DC/Balt can sustain two NFL teams {Redskins & Ravens} then the DC/Balt area can sustain two MLB franchises.

I see you fell in to Angelos' "woe-is-me" trap......






Yes, I've been to a few and I watch more than a few on Comcast. I see empty seats all of the damn time.

I watched a game about a week ago where the entire left field stands had maybe 50 people in them.

Football is quite different than baseball. Football teams have no problem filling a stadium eight times a year. There are a few people down on this end of the state that drive the 7 hours to Landover for every Skins game.

The DC/Baltimore area can't fill Camden for 81 games a year. How are they going to fill Camden and RFK for 162 games a year?

IMO, DC needs a baseball team like Columbus OH needed an NHL team. Baseball is a victim of it's own greed and needs to eliminate teams like Montreal (or Washington), Tampa Bay, and Kansas City.

But as long as I don't have to endure the I-95 traffic between DC and Baltimore, I'm happy. Having an NL team in DC gives me another opportunity to watch the Cubs play every year.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:11:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:14:46 AM EST by GunLvrPHD]

Originally Posted By Jeepster:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
The irony is that they are going to bulldoze a whole bunch of gay bars to build the new stadium. The scary thing is that the two crappy public housing developments right next door will not be bulldozed. Yeah I'm going to feel real safe going to night games there.

GunLvr



Isn't RFK Stadium in a shithole of a neighborhood?



My opinion is that RFK is a better neighborhood. It is still in the black part of DC but it is fairly middle class. I have walked from RFK to the Potomac Ave Metro (about a mile) after a late night concert and not been too scared. I would not worry about parking my car at RFK or even close by. The area for the baseball stadium is by two of the worst public housing complexes in the area.

PS. I hate the new Orioles stadium and almost never go to games there (maybe been to three since it opened). I loved the old statium and went 5-7 times a season.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:13:21 AM EST

Indiana taxpayers? More likely it will be a referendum and paid for by DC taxpayers...subsidized by the DC Group of investors and the other Northern VA group that backed bringing the EXISTING, not new, team from Montreal to DC.


I was talking about FEDERAL tax payers. We in Indiana are already burdened with supporting with the Colts. (Yes, I know they're a footbal team)

I'm talking about schemes to build big stadiums usually sound good but that fall back on public money.
Besides, I didn't know there were that many actual residents of Washington D.C. that actually paid taxes.

Oh just forget it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:14:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:17:25 AM EST by SHIVAN]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:17:01 AM EST

The DC/Baltimore area can't fill Camden for 81 games a year. How are they going to fill Camden and RFK for 162 games a year?



easy....not enough people from this area (northern virginia) want to drive to Baltimore to see a game, the majority of which start on weeknights in the middle of rush hour.

The O's are going to have the problem, not DC. Baltimore is a second-tier city. What percentage of DC metro-area O's season ticket holders will switch allegiance? Most of them, I bet. 100% of the law firms, tech firms, andother downtown DC companies, that's for sure. That's why Angelos is worried.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:18:57 AM EST
All I don't understand is how a team with the talent that the O's have sucks so bad.

Maybe Angelos is the answer, but has anyone given any thought to the possibility that the players don't like smelling Eutaw St. BBQ farts?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:19:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:20:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:20:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
....in the middle of rush hour.



Ladies and Gentlemen, a resident of NoVA who understands the dynamic of why Camden Yards is a poor choice for the DC Metro area baseball team.




Tell me about it. We made the mistake of passing through DC right at 4PM. Took us almost two hours to make it from DC to Camden.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:21:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Burley:
All I don't understand is how a team with the talent that the O's have sucks so bad.

Maybe Angelos is the answer, but has anyone given any thought to the possibility that the players don't like smelling Eutaw St. BBQ farts?



Who? Miguel Tejada? 31 year old Tejada?




There is a lot of talent on the team. Tejada had a good year. Mora is a damn good ballplayer as well. There's a ton of talent on the team. Had their starters been able to give them more than a third of an inning of quality pitching, they would have at least had a winning season.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:25:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:33:16 AM EST by Tanker06]

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Tanker06:
Reading an article the other day, RFK is a real shithole, physically, so it's going to take a real chunk
of change to fix it up nice so the Pol's can get their photo-ops w/ the new team....
I echo Bulldog1967's statement about NIMBY, as they were looking at putting the team (if Northern
VA had won the bribe-contest selection process) next to Dulles International, which is right next to
my house. No thanks!


You have no problem living next to one of the largest international airports in the country, but you don't want a ball park?


I've lived here since there was an airport, so I don't hear the planes unless I'm specifically listening
for them. And as this is Northern VA, the traffic has always been a bit ate up.

But if they had plopped the stadium down where they wanted it, that would have opened a whole new
can of worms, traffic congestion-wise, that the roads just couldn't handle. It's bad enough as it is now,
let alone trying to deal with umpteen thousand fans trying to get to the ballgame, then their mass
exodus when it's over.

Shivan's comment about the people in/around Springfield not wanting the stadium there is right, in
that it would have created more traffic, but in that area, they have room that they could expand. On
the map (that I last saw) showing where they wanted the stadium next to Dulles, once the stadium
was in place, there was no room to expand. Dulles Tollroad/Greenway to the west, Dulles Airport
on the south, Route 28 to it's east, and Rt 606 to the North. This left no room to expand the road
infrastructure, except by eminent domain, and that would have involved businesses that had deep
pockets which would have been tied up in court for a long time.

On the plus side, the backers of the stadium were saying that it would drive our real estate prices
up even more. But I'm just not convinced that it would have been worth the hassle......
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:27:23 AM EST
You ever try to make it to FedEx for Monday Night Football?


But what if all of those K-street law firms could catch the metro to the ballpark, then metro back to the office, get their car out of the garage that they already paid $220 for, and drive home AFTER RUSH HOUR in 1/4 of the time that it would have taken them to get home at 7pm???

I'll probably buy a 20-game package. I would have bought season tix if the ballpark was near Dulles.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:35:04 AM EST

Went to my first baseball game at Camden Yards and liked the stadium. What's the matter with it Shivan?

Also saying that Baltimore is a second tier city compared to DC is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black. The only thing better about DC to NoVA residents is that it's closer.
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