Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 12/3/2007 7:35:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 7:48:43 PM EDT by agreendale]
why is it that anyone under the sun can build an ar which is in fact a clone of the original ar15 and the same goes for the 1911.

but when i can't afford an mp5/hk94 i have to cross my fingers and buy a $2000 piece of shit 'clone' built by some tool who half the people in the world wouldn't even give the time to shit on.

what gives? is the hk system so hard to duplicate?

please help me understand.

ap
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:40:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 7:42:26 PM EDT by BUCC_Guy]
A few companies are producing the majority of AR forgings. Now, any doofus with a milling machine can start producing ARs. (No offense to our beloved manufacturers)


The manufacturing procedure is different for the HK and we do not have a stream of US made parts. With only one or two people making parts, uniformity and quality control is iffy at best.


Furthermore, demand for ARs has gone through the roof. Companies making ARs are practically popping up every month.


The question is NOT where are the HK clone makers. The question is where are the buyers?


- BG

Look in the HK forum here. Less than a dozen posts in the last day. The only large bloc of HK-droolers are over at HKPro, and they are hardly a consumer demographic in their own right.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:40:30 PM EDT
lack of demand I suppose. perhaps some legal issues too.

Is that vague enough?
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:42:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 7:42:51 PM EDT by polik6887]

Originally Posted By agreendale:
why is it that anyone under the sun can build an ar which is in fact a clone of the original ar15 and the same goes for the 1911.

but when i can't afford an mp5/hk94 i have to cross my fingers and buy a $2000 piece of shit 'clone' built by some tool who half the people in the world wouldn't even give the time to shit on him.

what gives? is the hk system so hard to duplicate?

please help me understand.

ap


well you should know by now that the HK system is perfect in every way. I hear you dont even have to aim them and they kill everyone in the room. and its a feature that they dont have a last round bolt hold open. wouldnt want the other guy to know when you ran outa ammo right?

thats probly why the clones cost so much, they need a few drops of chuck norrris tears to really match up with HK perfection. too bad he never crys. hence the price.

Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:43:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 7:44:22 PM EDT by BUCC_Guy]

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
lack of demand I suppose. perhaps some legal issues too.

Is that vague enough?



Actually, I forgot about the legal issues. I dont know why the Toad can produce them, but I do know that another company is barred by HK from making 9mms, and lord knows they could and would make them if allowed.


I don't have the details, only the story.


- BG
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:44:05 PM EDT
i dnon't know, if hk imported hk94s again i would think they would be flying off the shelves.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:44:52 PM EDT
Don't patents expire after a certain amount of time? Might that have something to do with it? AR and 1911 have been around a while.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:45:21 PM EDT
I would think it had to do more with patent law.

The 1911 and AR patents have run out so anyone can make them without a license...

Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:46:22 PM EDT
Its alot easier for some out to mill out an AR forging than it is to bend stamp and weld a HK up.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:47:27 PM EDT
I dont know what your talking about, I just got a Vulcan Navy Seal Special Forces MP5 and its the shit!
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:51:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JBowles:
Its alot easier for some out to mill out an AR forging than it is to bend stamp and weld a HK up.


Dunno about the legal issues, the HK series nearly the same age as ARs, but from a foreign country.

Now with CNC machines, I'd have to think it's easier to build an AR than the stamped steel HK series rifles.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:54:24 PM EDT
Very true, unless you have a pattern for stamped receivers its a heck of alot harder to build stamped receivers than it is a milled one.. Hmm, I wonder if anyone was ballsy enough to mill a HK patterned receiver..

That would be a work of art :D
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:56:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justinwb:
I dont know what your talking about, I just got a Vulcan Navy Seal Special Forces MP5 and its the shit!


Isn't that the machine gun of the special forces?
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:58:45 PM EDT

Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:59:30 PM EDT
Nothing wrong with the PTR 91 clones. They have a nicer fit and finish then many H&Ks that cost 2-3 times as much.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:59:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 72826:

Originally Posted By justinwb:
I dont know what your talking about, I just got a Vulcan Navy Seal Special Forces MP5 and its the shit!


Isn't that the machine gun of the special forces?

Yep
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:00:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 8:01:04 PM EDT by Lon_Moer]
All my AR/AK/FAL/G3's are clones.
And so are my 1911's.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:05:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:07:44 PM EDT
No demand.

Civilian MP5's look like ass with a 16" barrel.

If you are going to have a 16" barrel it might as well be a rifle round.

Decent amount of G3 clones out there. There is just little demand for a MP5 clone - now if we didn't have any SBR laws I'd bet demand for MP5 clones, Thompson Clones, PS90's would all increase.

That and SMG's have fallen from disfavor in most professional capacities (no military really issues them anymore, nor to police forces for the most part) so that impacts the civilian side of things. They are no longer tacticool.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:09:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
I had one of those aluminum receiver HK91 clones. What a piece of shit. I sold it at a gun show and got me a SW3.


What is a SW3?
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:17:13 PM EDT
why would two thousand dollar junk clones be selling like hotcakes if there were no demand.

Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:17:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 8:19:28 PM EDT by Fingerpicker]

Originally Posted By TGMoore:

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:
I had one of those aluminum receiver HK91 clones. What a piece of shit. I sold it at a gun show and got me a SW3.


What is a SW3?


A 91 clone from Bailey. They weren't bad. HK parts for the most part.

ETA - I like my JLD/Vector. I like the whole 90's series.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:21:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:22:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By agreendale:
why would two thousand dollar junk clones be selling like hotcakes if there were no demand.



Uh they are not.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:27:41 PM EDT
who has them in stock then
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 11:32:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2007 11:32:34 PM EDT by AWDTerror]
it's all about accessorizing and custom-ability
how many different variations of ar's can you make, and for any purpose.
and parts are relatively simple to make and ar's are easy for the most part to assemble.

take a look at the roller action on a HK, plus not a high demand.
although my next SBR will be a .308 V51/G3 clone
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 11:38:43 PM EDT
Top Top