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Posted: 10/13/2008 5:31:29 PM EST
Title says it all.. I want something corfortable .. yet has good protection.. not to hot either.
Link Posted: 10/13/2008 5:40:16 PM EST
I like my SHIFT octane jacket.

It's leather (textile jackets won't do much for you in a get off), has built in back, shoulder and elbow protectors, and a removable liner. If it's cold out just zip in the liner and you're good to go. Also, you should consider a jacket that will attatch to leather pants which this one does. You can wear just the jacket, or use it to make a one piece should you choose to do a track day at some point. Track suits cost between $1-$2k so this is a pretty cost effective step towards that.

Whatever you do, don't go cheap, one spill and you'll regret it. When it comes to gear buy the best.
Link Posted: 10/13/2008 8:56:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 1:53:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
....textile jackets won't do much for you in a get off....


Awe bullshit.
I am so fucking sick and tired of the bullshit that gets tossed out here.

A good modern armorored textile jacket and pants will protect you just as well as a set of leathers will.

They won't be able to be repaired and reused like a set of leathers can be, and that's what I will give to leathers.

Go to Adventure Rider to the face plant forum and read up on the crashes that are posted there, plenty of guys who crash wearing textile clothing don't get injured.

<­BR>
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 2:37:15 AM EST
I've got a Tour Master for the real hot weather, excellent jacket...I also would like to give Fieldsheer a try as I bought a pair of their Adventure pants and love them....

Fieldsheer Site
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 4:16:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
....textile jackets won't do much for you in a get off....


Awe bullshit.
I am so fucking sick and tired of the bullshit that gets tossed out here.

A good modern armorored textile jacket and pants will protect you just as well as a set of leathers will.

They won't be able to be repaired and reused like a set of leathers can be, and that's what I will give to leathers.

Go to Adventure Rider to the face plant forum and read up on the crashes that are posted there, plenty of guys who crash wearing textile clothing don't get injured.

<­BR>




If it were true, all professional road racers would be wearing textile armour over leather dues to the ~10lb weight difference in a 1 piece suit.

Link Posted: 10/14/2008 4:25:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 4:30:49 AM EST by TruckinAR]

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
....textile jackets won't do much for you in a get off....


Awe bullshit.
I am so fucking sick and tired of the bullshit that gets tossed out here.

A good modern armorored textile jacket and pants will protect you just as well as a set of leathers will.

They won't be able to be repaired and reused like a set of leathers can be, and that's what I will give to leathers.

Go to Adventure Rider to the face plant forum and read up on the crashes that are posted there, plenty of guys who crash wearing textile clothing don't get injured.

<­BR>




If it were true, all professional road racers would be wearing textile armour over leather dues to the ~10lb weight difference in a 1 piece suit.



not everyone is riding a track day.
For general duty the textile/mesh gear will handle most get offs.
Please engage brain BEFORE mouth.

As for the jacket....... I suggest Fieldsheer, Textile. Fantastic gear at a good price. Lots O armour and built in spinal pads. All I wear is Fieldsheer.


ETA: I see you are in "Paradise", look at the mesh gear, removable liner for those chilly 70 degree nights ()

Seriously the mesh is like A/C, ....I think Cycleworld did a report on the internal temps of the gear on a 65deg. night, and it dropped the temp to 40 something for the rider.

I know from using them myself, that I am as cool as a cage at 20mph in the middle of Aug. in North Carolina.
Just my .02 cents worth.

Link Posted: 10/14/2008 4:38:18 AM EST
OH, I see that you just got the bike.
DONT just buy a jacket. Buy ALL THE GEAR.
Draggin Jeans if you wish to be a bit stylish. Sidi and Alpinestar make some nice stylish boots that don't make you look like a Stormtrooper.

Please go ATGATT, it is much cheaper than skin graphs.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 4:47:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By TruckinAR:
not everyone is riding a track day.
For general duty the textile/mesh gear will handle most get offs.
Please engage brain BEFORE mouth.

As for the jacket....... I suggest Fieldsheer, Textile. Fantastic gear at a good price. Lots O armour and built in spinal pads. All I wear is Fieldsheer.


ETA: I see you are in "Paradise", look at the mesh gear, removable liner for those chilly 70 degree nights ()

Seriously the mesh is like A/C, ....I think Cycleworld did a report on the internal temps of the gear on a 65deg. night, and it dropped the temp to 40 something for the rider.

I know from using them myself, that I am as cool as a cage at 20mph in the middle of Aug. in North Carolina.
Just my .02 cents worth.



Oh, fucking save it...


Simply put Leather is more protective than textile. There is no way to bull shit around it.

Yeah, textile might hold up on a 10mph get off, but try sliding down the highway at 80-100 on it. You'll leave skin, muscle, etc on the asphalt along with your shitty textile jacket.

Roadracers wear the best in protection, and although you are correct in not everyone being "riding a track day", why wouldn't you want the best you can wear? Please, if you can, show us one professional racer that chooses to wear textile gear. If it was so good, the racers would ask the companies to make their suits in it.

I'm not saying textile is bad; it's not. It's better than a t-shirt, but any good leather jacket is better.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 5:02:30 AM EST
really....leather is hands down the absolute best?



Perhaps you could go and look at this vid.
www.dragginjeans.com/custom.aspx?id=1



Like I said, engage brain......
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 6:01:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By TruckinAR:
really....leather is hands down the absolute best?


www.dragginjeans.com/images/Dragging3.jpg
Perhaps you could go and look at this vid.
www.dragginjeans.com/custom.aspx?id=1



Like I said, engage brain......


Ever take a college level marketing class? I'd bet no.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 6:09:54 AM EST
I was hit by an SUV while riding a Yamaha FZ1. I was wearing a set of Joe Rocket Phoenix (Mesh) jacket and pants. I came away with no abrasions.

In the triage area of the emergency room, the doctors said they had never seen a rider arrive is as relatively good of shape as I was. I had a broken bone in my ankle, contusions to my shoulder, and I took one hell of a whack to my head. My full faced helmet showed scratches that indicated a bounce and then a long slide. Part of the scratches were on my shield. I cannot imagine what I would have looked like without the full faced helmet.

I could not more strongly advocate that company's gear.

Dress for the crash and not the ride. You will be glad you did.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 8:11:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By TruckinAR:
really....leather is hands down the absolute best?


www.dragginjeans.com/images/Dragging3.jpg
Perhaps you could go and look at this vid.
www.dragginjeans.com/custom.aspx?id=1



Like I said, engage brain......


Ever take a college level marketing class? I'd bet no.


you'd bet wrong
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 11:11:42 AM EST
Aerostitch Roadcrafters are nice, but might be a bit much for HI.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 5:19:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

If it were true, all professional road racers would be wearing textile armour over leather dues to the ~10lb weight difference in a 1 piece suit.


By your reasoning everyone should be running around on MotoGP bikes then.

Use your common sense, not everyone needs the added protection of a custom made roadracing leather suit.

Tell you what, you go ride around in Hawaii when it's africa hot and the humidity is 100% in a full one piece leather roadracing suit, or try it in Arizona in July.

It's apples to oranges, but you are comparing oranges to oranges.

Again, look in the Adventure Rider faceplant forum and read how well the textile suits hold up in real world accidents.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 5:30:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

If it were true, all professional road racers would be wearing textile armour over leather dues to the ~10lb weight difference in a 1 piece suit.


By your reasoning everyone should be running around on MotoGP bikes then.

Use your common sense, not everyone needs the added protection of a custom made roadracing leather suit.

Tell you what, you go ride around in Hawaii when it's africa hot and the humidity is 100% in a full one piece leather roadracing suit, or try it in Arizona in July.

It's apples to oranges, but you are comparing oranges to oranges.

Again, look in the Adventure Rider faceplant forum and read how well the textile suits hold up in real world accidents.


Your anal retentive dedication to a dead topic is unfortunate, mostly for those who might take you seriously.

There is no substitute for leather, no matter what you're riding, no matter how fast.

Don't forget to buy some good gloves too, OP.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 5:32:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By shootemup:

If it were true, all professional road racers would be wearing textile armour over leather dues to the ~10lb weight difference in a 1 piece suit.


By your reasoning everyone should be running around on MotoGP bikes then.

Use your common sense, not everyone needs the added protection of a custom made roadracing leather suit.

Tell you what, you go ride around in Hawaii when it's africa hot and the humidity is 100% in a full one piece leather roadracing suit, or try it in Arizona in July.

It's apples to oranges, but you are comparing oranges to oranges.

Again, look in the Adventure Rider faceplant forum and read how well the textile suits hold up in real world accidents.


1. I never told anyone to go out and buy a one piece suit. If you are ging to wear a jacket, and you'd be foolish not to, leather is better than textile.

2. Perforated leather is still better than textiles.

I made the comment about the racers because I wanted to point out that they wear the best in terms of safety gear, and textiles aren't the best.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 6:32:39 PM EST
I have an Alpinestar TZ1 that works well year round. I also wear the track pants as I'm used to full leathers on the street. I want all the edge I can get, but hey, you're skin. If you're commuting you might want to look into one of the oversuits like Fieldshier makes. But check out www.newenough.com or www.motorcyclecloseouts.com for some good deals. Just look for any name brand jacket that has the looks you like and some preforations if you don't like the heat. Most come with a liner for colder weather. I too say stay away from mesh, but textile can do well. But I've had a 110mph get off at the track and if it wasn't for the doctors cutting it off I'd still be using my leather suit. Leather only for me.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 9:38:21 PM EST
Im looking at the Alpinestars Alloy Leather Jacket ...looks like a hot weather leather jacket.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 10:52:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2008 10:56:20 PM EST by swingset]
doubletap.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 10:56:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:
<snip>

Yeah, textile might hold up on a 10mph get off, but try sliding down the highway at 80-100 on it. You'll leave skin, muscle, etc on the asphalt along with your shitty textile jacket.


You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

AT.

ALL.

I've seen numerous high speed getoffs with textile (as was mentioned, go read ADV's face plant forum) that involved no skin abrasion WHATSOEVER. I had a 40mph spill with a 30' slide wearing a Teknic jacket & Fieldsheer textile that didn't even make it through to the armor panels....no shredding, just scuffed like hell.

Quality, modern textiles are VERY capable of withstanding asphalt slides. Like everything else, there's good textile and bad, just as it is with leather.

Leather has a higher natural abrasion resistance than fabrics, this is true but to say anything over a 10mph getoff will tear flesh from bone is just jackassery turned up to 11.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:59:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
<snip>

Yeah, textile might hold up on a 10mph get off, but try sliding down the highway at 80-100 on it. You'll leave skin, muscle, etc on the asphalt along with your shitty textile jacket.


You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

AT.

ALL.

I've seen numerous high speed getoffs with textile (as was mentioned, go read ADV's face plant forum) that involved no skin abrasion WHATSOEVER. I had a 40mph spill with a 30' slide wearing a Teknic jacket & Fieldsheer textile that didn't even make it through to the armor panels....no shredding, just scuffed like hell.

Quality, modern textiles are VERY capable of withstanding asphalt slides. Like everything else, there's good textile and bad, just as it is with leather.

Leather has a higher natural abrasion resistance than fabrics, this is true but to say anything over a 10mph getoff will tear flesh from bone is just jackassery turned up to 11.


You need to learn how to fucking read. Where did I say "anything over a 10mph getoff will tear flesh from bone" Pull your head out of your ass, and turn your jackassery down to about 1-2 and re-read what I fucking wrote.

I said try it at 80-100 mph. Jesus Christ.

I've seen the fucking threads on ADV rider. That's great for them that textile saved their ass. They're also on slow moving enduros and adv bikes.

You wear your textile crap made in China, and I'll wear either my American or Italian made leather products that I've tested at over 110mph without a single tear.

Wear what ever you want. Textile, at least at this time, isn't as good as leather regarding abrasion god forbid you go down at any real speed.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:17:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
....textile jackets won't do much for you in a get off....


Awe bullshit.
I am so fucking sick and tired of the bullshit that gets tossed out here.

A good modern armorored textile jacket and pants will protect you just as well as a set of leathers will.

They won't be able to be repaired and reused like a set of leathers can be, and that's what I will give to leathers.

Go to Adventure Rider to the face plant forum and read up on the crashes that are posted there, plenty of guys who crash wearing textile clothing don't get injured.





30 minutes after a +/-60mph get-off. No injuries.

Aerostich Roadcrafter suit with shoulder, elbow, knee, and hip pads. Plus, of course the Arai helmet, Dainese back protector, Kushitani gloves, and good ol' combat boots.

-p.

<­BR>

Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:21:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By PhuzzyGnu:

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
....textile jackets won't do much for you in a get off....


Awe bullshit.
I am so fucking sick and tired of the bullshit that gets tossed out here.

A good modern armorored textile jacket and pants will protect you just as well as a set of leathers will.

They won't be able to be repaired and reused like a set of leathers can be, and that's what I will give to leathers.

Go to Adventure Rider to the face plant forum and read up on the crashes that are posted there, plenty of guys who crash wearing textile clothing don't get injured.



i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/blackranger.jpg

30 minutes after a +/-60mph get-off. No injuries.

Aerostich Roadcrafter suit with shoulder, elbow, knee, and hip pads. Plus, of course the Arai helmet, Dainese back protector, Kushitani gloves, and good ol' combat boots.

-p.


Claimed crash speeds on the street are like asking arfcommers their best 5 shot group size; optimistic to say the least.

<­BR>
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:44:03 AM EST
I am a fan of Vanson products. I have both leather and textile jackets/pants and unfortunately I can honestly state that no matter what you will be uncomfortable in the gear part (or most) of the time.

In other words, there is no "magic bullet" gear that I am aware of. For a majority of street riding I would go with a quality textile jacket.

My Vanson Ventmax III is a great garment. In warm weather there really isn't much reason NOT to wear it as it. It is constructed of 1000 denier mesh and it vents wonderfully. I have hit clouds of grasshoppers while riding and they explode on the mesh. Quite refreshing!

It is also low on bulk, so you can roll it up in your gym bag easily. Is it as "protective" as full racing leather? No. You have to make a rational decision about what realistic risks you run when you ride. Do you commute? What are the roads like? Is a slow speed slide on muck more of a risk than a bumperfest in city traffic or a highway "get off"?

The idea is to mitigate injury as much as possible by wearing good gear. Word of advice- don't neglect riding pants- with armor. Your knees are the most complex joint in your body. Please protect them.

Also, good gloves are an absolute must. I am very picky about gloves, and will spend a lot of money to get good ones. I like Held products, but you can do well with other brands. If at all possible try them on before you buy them.

I wear armored boots all the time when I ride. I don't give a damn if they look like Ricky Racer's Fabulous Fruitboots. They protect my ankles, and I have crushed one in the past.

A bit more about textile jackets. Usually they are good for one crash, then toss. If you accept that then they offer some serious advantages over leather. First, they require less care. If you live in the "mold zone" with frequent rain and high humidity it will be a challenge to keep your leathers in top condition. Rain is the environment where textiles really shine.

Also, textiles come in some seriously funky visible colors. Sure, you look like you work in the biohazard industry, but dammit the Hi Viz stuff makes you stand out.

If you have the money then it is hard to go wrong with an Aerostitch or a Motoport textile jacket. Motoport's website is the suxxor, but call and verify if you want a product.

Anyway, enough blah blah blah. I like my Vanson Ventmax for convenience reasons. It fits a tad odd- there is a stretch to the material. The zipper on it is plastic and none too reassuring. It meets my minimum needs for hot weather protection, though.

If you must have leather then you need to pay the money for quality. Dainese, Vanson, etc. You can't cheap out when it comes to leather gear. Fit is critical as racing leathers are very thick and do not "give" very much at all.

Good luck,
and keep an eye out for Poi spills. That stuff is slippery!
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:45:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By PhuzzyGnu:

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
....textile jackets won't do much for you in a get off....


Awe bullshit.
I am so fucking sick and tired of the bullshit that gets tossed out here.

A good modern armorored textile jacket and pants will protect you just as well as a set of leathers will.

They won't be able to be repaired and reused like a set of leathers can be, and that's what I will give to leathers.

Go to Adventure Rider to the face plant forum and read up on the crashes that are posted there, plenty of guys who crash wearing textile clothing don't get injured.



i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/blackranger.jpg

30 minutes after a +/-60mph get-off. No injuries.

Aerostich Roadcrafter suit with shoulder, elbow, knee, and hip pads. Plus, of course the Arai helmet, Dainese back protector, Kushitani gloves, and good ol' combat boots.

-p.


Claimed crash speeds on the street are like asking arfcommers their best 5 shot group size; optimistic to say the least.

<­BR>


Christ you are negative. I suppose you think Audi autos still have a "Sudden Accelleration problem" Just because Textiles from 10 years ago where not particularly good, does not mean that they have not improved greatly. Yes leather is still the best, but it is not always the most functional.

You seem to forget that a lot of these companies make MOSTLY textile gear now. That represents a massive monetary investment and a huge REPUTATION stake on their products. After 10-12 years of Textile riding gear being produced, if they did not make it better, there would be zero demand for it.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 5:00:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 5:07:35 AM EST by shootemup]

Originally Posted By phatmax:


Christ you are negative. I suppose you think Audi autos still have a "Sudden Accelleration problem" Just because Textiles from 10 years ago where not particularly good, does not mean that they have not improved greatly. Yes leather is still the best, but it is not always the most functional.

You seem to forget that a lot of these companies make MOSTLY textile gear now. That represents a massive monetary investment and a huge REPUTATION stake on their products. After 10-12 years of Textile riding gear being produced, if they did not make it better, there would be zero demand for it.


Don't get all pissy.

The OP asked for a jacket that was/has :

1. Comfortable
2. Protection
3. Not to hot

All I'm saying is leather fits all his criteria, and is better. There is no debating that.

Part of the reason that textiles have taken off is that the companies have marketed it more due to the increased profit margins.

I know many people in the motorcycle apparel industry.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 9:05:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
<snip>

Yeah, textile might hold up on a 10mph get off, but try sliding down the highway at 80-100 on it. You'll leave skin, muscle, etc on the asphalt along with your shitty textile jacket.


You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

AT.

ALL.

I've seen numerous high speed getoffs with textile (as was mentioned, go read ADV's face plant forum) that involved no skin abrasion WHATSOEVER. I had a 40mph spill with a 30' slide wearing a Teknic jacket & Fieldsheer textile that didn't even make it through to the armor panels....no shredding, just scuffed like hell.

Quality, modern textiles are VERY capable of withstanding asphalt slides. Like everything else, there's good textile and bad, just as it is with leather.

Leather has a higher natural abrasion resistance than fabrics, this is true but to say anything over a 10mph getoff will tear flesh from bone is just jackassery turned up to 11.


You need to learn how to fucking read. Where did I say "anything over a 10mph getoff will tear flesh from bone" Pull your head out of your ass, and turn your jackassery down to about 1-2 and re-read what I fucking wrote.

I said try it at 80-100 mph. Jesus Christ.

I've seen the fucking threads on ADV rider. That's great for them that textile saved their ass. They're also on slow moving enduros and adv bikes.

You wear your textile crap made in China, and I'll wear either my American or Italian made leather products that I've tested at over 110mph without a single tear.

Wear what ever you want. Textile, at least at this time, isn't as good as leather regarding abrasion god forbid you go down at any real speed.


Don't attack me because you've been called on being called on your histrionics. You're making gross generalizations, wrong ones, and now your hubris won't allow you to do anything but keep the fight going.

You said textiles MIGHT hold up at 10mph, but...

That implies they're not even sufficient for THAT speed, let alone anything higher.

Choose your words better next time. You're still wrong.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 9:28:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 9:31:00 AM EST by shootemup]

Originally Posted By swingset:


Don't attack me because you've been called on being called on your histrionics. You're making gross generalizations, wrong ones, and now your hubris won't allow you to do anything but keep the fight going.

You said textiles MIGHT hold up at 10mph, but...

That implies they're not even sufficient for THAT speed, let alone anything higher.

Choose your words better next time. You're still wrong.



Leather is superior to textile. It's the truth, and that's all I say in this thread.

OP, if you want the absolute best in protection, get yourself a good leather jacket. I would recommend Vanson, even if all of their manufacturing isn't in MA anymore.

ETA: Here is the jacket I have, having gone down at high way speeds only to get scratched.

Vanson Mark II Cobra
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 10:42:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 10:43:58 AM EST by PhuzzyGnu]

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Claimed crash speeds on the street are like asking arfcommers their best 5 shot group size; optimistic to say the least.


What the fuck is your problem?

I came in WAY hot into a left hand horseshoe on a CBR1100XX, buried in the redline in 1st gear.







I was wearing that Aerostich, going over 60mph and it saved my ass.


Should I tell you about my racing experience (CMRA Expert) crashing in leathers and do some comparing and contrasting in simple terms for you?



For street riders, quality textile gear will serve as well as leather. For racers, leather is better.

-p.

Link Posted: 10/15/2008 11:08:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By PhuzzyGnu:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Claimed crash speeds on the street are like asking arfcommers their best 5 shot group size; optimistic to say the least.


What the fuck is your problem?

I came in WAY hot into a left hand horseshoe on a CBR1100XX, buried in the redline in 1st gear.

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/curve.jpg

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/phuzbike.jpg

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/phuzboots.jpg

I was wearing that Aerostich, going over 60mph and it saved my ass.


Should I tell you about my racing experience (CMRA Expert) crashing in leathers and do some comparing and contrasting in simple terms for you?

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/PA150082.jpg

For street riders, quality textile gear will serve as well as leather. For racers, leather is better.

-p.



Good for you.

Leather is still better.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 12:07:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By PhuzzyGnu:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Claimed crash speeds on the street are like asking arfcommers their best 5 shot group size; optimistic to say the least.


What the fuck is your problem?

I came in WAY hot into a left hand horseshoe on a CBR1100XX, buried in the redline in 1st gear.

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/curve.jpg

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/phuzbike.jpg

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/phuzboots.jpg

I was wearing that Aerostich, going over 60mph and it saved my ass.


Should I tell you about my racing experience (CMRA Expert) crashing in leathers and do some comparing and contrasting in simple terms for you?

i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/PA150082.jpg

For street riders, quality textile gear will serve as well as leather. For racers, leather is better.

-p.



Good for you.

Leather is still better.


what are you.....12....
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:14:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Good for you.
Leather is still better.


Are you dense or are you something else?

Name one person here who said that textiles are better than leather.

You have your foot in your mouth to the ankle.

You don't like textiles, fine, you stated your point, past that you have failed to provide proof for your point of view.

If you bothered to read any of my responses to the "going racing" or "what leathers" posts you would see that I recommend custome made Z Leathers, Bates or Syed.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:14:47 PM EST
This thread has sure turned to krap. Imagine if KirkP were still able to jump in.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:26:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 3:31:18 PM EST by shootemup]
To all the guys that think that textile is either better or just as good as leather, here is a response to an inquisition sent to Vanson:

Leather (competition wt.) has a fail rate at about 2,600 rpm on the grinding wheel test, our 1000 denier codura fails at 1,400 rpm. Most all other companies textiles are polyester which we refuse to use fails at 400 rpm, plus is toxic if it gets into the human blood stream. The answer is leather for protection by far.

So their best textile fails at roughly half of what their leather goods can sustain on the grinding wheel.

And the competitions shit, probably made in China, is toxic if you should get it in your blood stream.

Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:27:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Blackmore:
This thread has sure turned to krap. Imagine if KirkP were still able to jump in.


Yea, I can imagine - [asshat-kirkp-mode] It does not matter what you wear, if you're not riding a Suzuki SV650 or a liter bike you're gonna die. [/asshat-kirkp-mode]
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:30:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By shootemup:
To all the guys that think that textile is either better or just as good as leather, here is a response to an inquisition to someone I know at Vanson:

Leather (competition wt.) has a fail rate at about 2,600 rpm on the grinding wheel test, our 1000 denier codura fails at 1,400 rpm. Most all other companies textiles are polyester which we refuse to use fails at 400 rpm, plus is toxic if it gets into the human blood stream. The answer is leather for protection by far.

So their best textile fails at roughly half of what their leather goods can sustain on the grinding wheel.

And the competitions shit, probably made in China, is toxic if you should get it in your blood stream.



Great marketing info for those of us who might accidently lean up against a running grinder while wearing leather or textile riding gear.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:32:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 3:33:03 PM EST by shootemup]

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
To all the guys that think that textile is either better or just as good as leather, here is a response to an inquisition to someone I know at Vanson:

Leather (competition wt.) has a fail rate at about 2,600 rpm on the grinding wheel test, our 1000 denier codura fails at 1,400 rpm. Most all other companies textiles are polyester which we refuse to use fails at 400 rpm, plus is toxic if it gets into the human blood stream. The answer is leather for protection by far.

So their best textile fails at roughly half of what their leather goods can sustain on the grinding wheel.

And the competitions shit, probably made in China, is toxic if you should get it in your blood stream.



Great marketing info for those of us who might accidently lean up against a running grinder while wearing leather or textile riding gear.


So I guess you know how to test leather better than the company that makes it.

Ok.


Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:34:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Blackmore:
This thread has sure turned to krap. Imagine if KirkP were still able to jump in.


Even KirkP knows the quality of Textile.....
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:58:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:32:53 PM EST

Okay.

Textiles- QUALITY textiles are EXCELLENT for the street.

Leather- BETTER for the TRACK, excellent for the street.

I have owned -and crashed in- both. Vanson Pro-Perf jacket- One of the finest jackets made. Aerostich (pictured above)- widely regarded by ANYONE in the industry that knows what they are talking about as the FINEST textile suit you can buy. Z-Custom Leathers (pictured above)- top shelf.

Any of the three are the COLT equivalent of riding gear.


"I know lots of people in the industry" (or whatever the quote was). Heh heh. I guess that's the moto-gear take on the classic "I have LOTS of black friends" or "I know LOTS of gay people." line. Makes one an expert, huh?


For the OP- Aerosstich may be overkill. Their Darien Lite is an excellent year-round jacket. I wore my Roadcrafter from 10* to 110*.

Vanson makes the "Pro-Perf" jacket that is extraordinary. Completely ventilated. I still have my old well broken-in one laying around. It's a size 48 with the waist tailored down to around 34". If it is around the right size -and I could find it- I'd give it to you for the price of shipping.

Vanson also used to make a Cordura jacket.

Fieldsheer is a good brand. Joe Rocket is hit and miss.

-p.

Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:41:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 4:43:52 PM EST by r6rider]
You can't go wrong with any leather or high end textile from Alpinestars, Joe Rocket, Icon , shift or ant of the other major manufactures.



I prefer Alpinestars leather my self. YMMV


ETA: laid down a bike wearing a Joe rocket textile. Jacket was wrecked but I was ok couple small scratches but that was bout it
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:42:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2008 4:43:50 PM EST by PhuzzyGnu]
Aerostich's take:

"All protective clothing performance is relative, and all crashes are unique. Our crash performance information comes from examining the garments that have been sent back to us for repair. The Roadcrafter seems to be about 20% better than the Darien because it provides more layers of fabric over a larger area of the garment. These layers include both the elbow/shoulder/knee areas of ballistics nylon and the additional pockets that are on the Roadcrafter design. The sewing integrity and the Cordura fabric are the same in both garments. Neither was designed as a substitute for competition leathers.

We have seen one Darien Light (160 Denier Cordura) jacket that did well at an estimated 70 mph, and many regular Dariens (500 Denier Cordura) that have functioned in crashes at even higher speeds. The highest crash speed that we have ever seen was around 120 mph for a Roadcrafter. Most damaged garments received are from crash events occurring between 30 and 70 mph. Within this range the Darien, Darien Light and Roadcrafter designs all seem to be effective at providing useful abrasion protection. The Darien Light offers the least and the Roadcrafter the most, but all provide a lot more than typical jeans and street clothing jackets. This is because of the toughness of our fabrics, and the inclusion of hard shell pad systems at areas of greatest impact and abrasion contact. Like an auto airbag, Aerostich garments are supposed to be sacrificial in an accident. We are able to economically repair just about all of the damaged ones that are sent back to us, but if the cost is more than half of the replacement price, we 'total' the garment and do not repair it. This does not occur often.

Rider clothing safety is subjective. Those riding powerful sport bikes will prefer the closer fit and greater protection a Roadcrafter suit offers. For commuting around this small (100,000 population) city, I often wear a Darien Light jacket, an open face helmet, denim jeans and ankle high shoes. For weekend rides, I normally wear a regular Darien outfit or Roadcrafter suit, and a full-face helmet and boots. For a day at a racetrack school, I have only worn a Roadcrafter. . . with all the optional pads. . . something I would not choose for everyday surface-street riding here. On overnight trips, I use a Darien or Darien light outfit, (depending on where I am going, what I will be doing there, and how long the trip will be). For many years I wore only a one piece Roadcrafter everywhere, including on weeks-long road trips. That is still a favorite, but for my current everyday urban riding I mostly choose a Darien.

A possible long-term wardrobe for an everyday commuting, sport riding, and touring motorcyclist might include a one piece Roadcrafter, a Darien (or Darien Light) outer jacket and pants, an Unobtainium Darien jacket liner, an Unobtainium electric vest, a Polartec 100 sweater, a black leather jacket, Elkskin Roper gloves, medium weight insulated gloves, Combat Touring boots, ankle high light boots, newer denim jeans, a full face helmet, and an open face helmet with clear glasses or goggles. Riders investing in a large selection of gear like this should expect to use it for years of traveling and everyday riding. Woof.


Crash and Abrasion Considerations?

Compared to leather of the same weight and thickness, Cordura nylon is a stronger material. But hides are thicker and heavier so they offer greater abrasion resistance. We repair about twenty or thirty Aerostich garments a month. About a third of these were in crashes that produced some abrasion damage. Several common themes have emerged. Though Aerostich suits are not as abrasion resistant as racing leathers, they offer significant and useful protection, especially at typical street speeds.

Aerostich wearers often think of their suit as sacrificial in the same way a car's airbag gets used up by its deployment. These garments are lighter, cooler and easier to use in bad weather (etc...), but less crash-durable than leathers. On average, street riders seem to crash only at infrequent intervals. How gear feels and works during the intervening years of use and the tens of thousands of miles of riding is very important. Most street crashes occur between 20 and 50 mph, not between 50 and 100. For each Roadcrafter suit that was in a 100 mph crash, we get dozens that need smaller repairs because the rider fell down at 35 mph . For these kinds of everyday spills, even the fanciest leathers do not offer protective advantages. We make gear to help you use a motorcycle more and be better protected. It has to be safe, easy to use, and comfortable for everyday riding.
Nylon and Friction?

Although we have not conducted tests comparing the friction coefficients of cordura suits and leathers on various pavement surfaces, we have collected a significant amount of relevant information. We repair many Aerostich suits every year, and most of these are damaged by sliding on all kinds of pavements. Many of the wearers (testers....?) had previous crash experiences with leathers. Post-crash wearers typically comment that their Aerostich was 'slipperier' than their old leathers. The consensus is that Cordura slides a little better and tends to roll and tumble the wearer somewhat less than leather. After studying hundreds of accidents, former Motorcyclist magazine editor and professional accident reconstructionist Gordon Jennings believed that more crash injuries (broken shoulders, etc..) were caused by tumbling than by the incrementally increased chances of hitting something due to sliding farther."

-p.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 4:56:35 PM EST
to be honest at legal speeds textiles are just as good. for racing I would want leather and in the summer I prefer leather. but wet and cold and horrid makes me reach for the texile with the ce approved integral armour.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 6:38:26 PM EST
Sorry to hijack real quick, but does anybody know how to determine what model Vanson Jacket you have? I just started riding again and I spent hours yesterday trying to track down exactly what model jacket I'm wearing. I remember it came with a leather tag when new but there doesn't seem to be any model number or tag anywhere obvious that I can find?

As far as gear, I ride either a Vanson synthetic or occasionally Vanson leather, all I can say is that like everything else in this world its all about tradeoff, no matter how cold it is outside (GA temps) I am constantly hot as all hell under that effin jacket, I'll probably end up picking up something more light weight eventually just cause my commute is so short and slow (famous last words I know) but damn, if you want good protection, your gonna have to pay a price in bulk, heat and just general uncomfortableness.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 6:43:50 PM EST
Also, as for this ridiculous textile vs leather debate, I'm EMS and my old man is a trauma doc in NYC who has been riding on and off for years, I've seen maybe a handful of bike accidents, hes seen hundreds. When He got his last bike he bought himself Vanson Leather and me Vanson textile. As someone who has had to deal with many many motocycle injuries/deaths every year, as well as being a long time and fairly experienced rider, I know that there would be no way that he would of bought a textile jacket if he really thought it was anymore inferior compared to regular leathers. In the end my gear setup ended up being more expensive than his anyway.


Although like I said I am fairly new to everday riding, my old man used to always say that when that time comes that you simply go down on a bike and kiss some asphalt, as long as you are in in good quality protected gear from head to toe, ans simply burn to a stop without encountering any obstructions like other vehicles, your own bike, curbs, trees etc., injuries are 'generally' mild to moderate, some broken bones sure, some shredded skin maybe, minor head injuries, but all in all single rider accidents are usually not that incredibly serious, no matter what the gear, synthetic, leather whatever, evidence of this is has been shown right here of riders getting up and walking away after going down at 50-60 mph, as long as all they hit is flat pavement.

According to my father, and this may very well be due to the nature of riding a bike in NYC, but its not rarely the fall that gets you, its the 3000 pound chevy, or that foot high curb, or the tire of the bus that was behind you that will kill you dead everytime, and I think we can all agree that no form of gear is every gonna be able to protect against those types of accidents.


For whatever reason, whether it has been the sheer number of moto accidents that he has to deal with on a weekly basis, or a couple real bad ones that really hit home with him recently, hes basically no longer rides anymore. Me being the young and dumb one, have happily taken the bike down in GA with me and use it as my daily driver.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 7:06:45 PM EST
Awesome... this thread is pretty hard to read the good info between all the bickering lol.. Ive decided to get the aplinestars alloy leather jacket. thanks for those that did provide info!
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 7:23:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By thedrizzle:
Awesome... this thread is pretty hard to read the good info between all the bickering lol.. Ive decided to get the aplinestars alloy leather jacket. thanks for those that did provide info!


Great choice IMHO, and make sure you have good gloves, boots, and helmet.

Enjoy.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 7:50:59 PM EST
ya i have alpinestars gloves.. and going to work i will be wearing my flight boots... and i have a Shoei RF1000 on order.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 7:59:29 PM EST
How does the sizing on the alpinestars jackets work? I have a 44in chest..
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 10:51:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By thedrizzle:
How does the sizing on the alpinestars jackets work? I have a 44in chest..


www.alpinestars.com/sizing/
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