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Posted: 8/22/2017 3:26:22 AM EDT
assuming it's smaller than an f-250, what gun could you carry (open or concealed)
and stop a car from plowing over folks, say from 25yds with less than 2-4 shots?

357Sig?   357 mag revolver? 10mm? Not posted to GD to get a sensible answer

thanks; just pondering this recently, for no reason,,,,
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 5:04:01 PM EDT
[#1]
The 124 gold dots in my 9mm through the windshield and into the drivers head should work.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 5:12:28 PM EDT
[#2]
There isn't anything you can carry that would stop a moving vehicle from 25 yards. 
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 5:17:19 PM EDT
[#3]
i guess i should qualify it a little more; disable & put holes in the driver thru door & glass;

yea, you'd need a rifle to stop dead in it's tracks, but is 9mm enough?
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 5:20:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 5:32:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There isn't anything you can carry that would stop a moving vehicle from 25 yards. 
View Quote
you carry something capable of killing a man driving a vehicle, don't you?

I'm looking at .357SIG this weekend and weighing the pros & cons. Highway patrols have had good results with them.

Might actually go get some junk autoglass and compare it to 9 & .40 at the range in a week or two

Let's manage expectations though. 25m from a pistol at a moving vehicle through glass is going to be a bitch of a shot. It's going to be on the harder side with a carbine, especially when you consider that it's going to take multiple shots to actually incapacitate or kill the driver.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 5:50:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
FN FiveseveN loaded with Elite Ammunition DevestaTOR Ammo.

Standard SS198LF will shoot through 1 1/4" bulletproof glass and it's not even in the same league as DevestaTOR, not even close!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teY8vwwXvA



DevestaTOR up until recently was only available to Law Enforcement, Jay from Elite Ammunition didn't even want it discussed outside of the L.E. community.

The penetration on this round is absolutely INSANE!

Regular windshield glass would be like shooting through tissue paper with this loading, in addition you would have 21 rounds of very low recoil ammo on board.
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50 in a PS90.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 5:57:28 PM EDT
[#7]
[Dirty Harry]"I carry a .44 Magnum because its the most powerful handgun, a .41 penetrates, but not as well and I have seen a .357 slide off a windshield"[/Dirty Harry]
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 6:02:18 PM EDT
[#8]
If this is really a concern for you then keep carrying whatever you do now (provided it is something sensible 9 Luger/.38 Special and above) but you might want to choose ammo based on penetration.  Like if you carry Critical Defense I'd go to Critical Duty etc.  

If this is an excuse to buy another gun then have at it of course
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 6:48:25 PM EDT
[#9]
You want to kill the driver to stop the car. Need to draw and aim smoothly/quickly too.

I'd use 9mm and up, with good barrier-proof bullets.

Underwood XTreme Defenders (solid copper fluted bullets) would my my load of choice probably, but there are many bullets that would do well.

In 10mm I'd only carry the defenders, Flat Nose or 180-200gr XTP loaded hot.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 7:01:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Distinguish yourself from the herd: A Mini-G, ... in  7.62/.308 or 30.06, take your pick.

I presently keep one as my "trunk gun" just for this sort of scenario, although arguably the chances of such an event in my area are slim-to-none.

Somewhere between 1- and 8-rds from a G.I. clip placed into the driver's side window (from head-on) should suffice to incapacitate the driver from further aggressive action or continued  carnage.

That said, train to reload another 8-rd clip quickly, since other terrorist a-holes inside the car may bail out upon stopping or crashing, and then commence to fire their AK-47s at you.    ...  It's never over, until it's over.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:29:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There isn't anything you can carry that would stop a moving vehicle from 25 yards. 
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This !!!  BUT-My people in Israel have given us the way to fight the attacks that will eventually surface here. That is everyone at the sight of the attack comes together and overwhelms the attacker by force and kills him. Simply put- every citizen is a part of the armed force to prevent and stop these kinds of attacks. That is the only way to stop them.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:30:09 PM EDT
[#12]
.40 S&W and .357 SIG are superior to 9mm for penetrating windshields and shooting the terrorist behind the wheel.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:32:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This !!!  BUT-My people in Israel have given us the way to fight the attacks that will eventually surface here. That is everyone at the sight of the attack comes together and overwhelms the attacker by force and kills him. Simply put- every citizen is a part of the armed force to prevent and stop these kinds of attacks. That is the only way to stop them.
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The Czech Republic, unlike the rest of Europe,  is adopting a doctrine in which the citizens are the first line of defense.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:36:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:36:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If this is really a concern for you then keep carrying whatever you do now (provided it is something sensible 9 Luger/.38 Special and above) but you might want to choose ammo based on penetration.  Like if you carry Critical Defense I'd go to Critical Duty etc.  

If this is an excuse to buy another gun then have at it of course
View Quote
In before that guy that really hates Critical Duty/Defense.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:48:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Yeah 357 magnum or 10mm or 357Sig all will work well against cars. I prefer 10mm, tough to beat 15 rounds in a Glock 20. But I also love my S&W 686 7 shot 357 magnum, but yeah know only 7 rounds... And 357Sig does a good job punching through cars, but I find it harder to shoot compared to the 10mm, and 10mm is more powerful, so... yeah..... go 10mm, haha
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 8:57:44 PM EDT
[#17]
I would LOVE a detailed explanation of the fantasy you have involving you killing a terrorist involving a car attack...
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 9:19:09 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a feeling that a recent event with a Dodge Challenger inspired the OP.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 9:38:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And 5.7x28 is far superior than either one of them.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
.40 S&W and .357 SIG are superior to 9mm for penetrating windshields and shooting the terrorist behind the wheel.
And 5.7x28 is far superior than either one of them.
I'd love to see the FBI tests to back that up
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 9:40:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would LOVE a detailed explanation of the fantasy you have involving you killing a terrorist involving a car attack...
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Couple in France in the last year. Folk sitting around enjoying fireworks when a camel jockey comes tearing through a crowd.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 9:43:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Time to move out of the Arab neighborhood, so you don't have to worry anymore.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 9:52:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would LOVE a detailed explanation of the fantasy you have involving you killing a terrorist involving a car attack...
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Didn't something just happen in Barcelona? Maybe one dude with a pistol could have stopped all those people from dying.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 10:24:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 10:27:46 PM EDT
[#24]
.357 Sig...probably out of a concealed 229.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 10:31:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
.357 Sig...probably out of a concealed 229.
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I will second this.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 11:03:17 PM EDT
[#26]
My EDC G22....

But I would be running as with everyone else. This is real life not a movie.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 12:59:09 AM EDT
[#27]
P229 loaded with .40 S&W Ga Arms 155gr +P Gold dot JHPs. I don't normally carry this set up but I have this same set up in my glovebox every day.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 2:15:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Maybe I'll start carrying the S&W 500. I'll just stop the vehicle. Couple rounds to the block and maybe get a rod or piston and get it seize up. I'll let the P30 finish of the job when he gets out with a machete. Lol.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 2:22:15 AM EDT
[#29]
50 BMG
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 2:46:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 4:25:36 AM EDT
[#31]
155mm
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 6:24:17 AM EDT
[#32]
People are driving vehicles with 1.25" bulletproof glass through crowds?
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 6:54:51 AM EDT
[#33]
40mm HE would do the trick
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 9:56:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd venture to say the Secret Service test trump theirs.

Show me a video of ANY .40 or .357 Sig round going through 1 1/4" bulletproof glass. The round used was SS198LF which is crap compared to DevestaTOR!

Well?
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Quoted:
Quoted:


I'd love to see the FBI tests to back that up
I'd venture to say the Secret Service test trump theirs.

Show me a video of ANY .40 or .357 Sig round going through 1 1/4" bulletproof glass. The round used was SS198LF which is crap compared to DevestaTOR!

Well?
Video to SS test? What is their testing criteria? Link to the results of the last SS shoot? Link to the last vehicle? ramming incident that had a vehicle with 1 1/4" bullet proof glass?

The FBI protocol is a tested and proven standard.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:16:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd venture to say the Secret Service test trump theirs.

Show me a video of ANY .40 or .357 Sig round going through 1 1/4" bulletproof glass. The round used was SS198LF which is crap compared to DevestaTOR!

Well?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


I'd love to see the FBI tests to back that up
I'd venture to say the Secret Service test trump theirs.

Show me a video of ANY .40 or .357 Sig round going through 1 1/4" bulletproof glass. The round used was SS198LF which is crap compared to DevestaTOR!

Well?
I may regret getting drawn into this but here goes.  

When I first started with handguns I owned a 1911 with two extra mags.   My logic at the time was that it was the standard loadout for a number of people IN WARTIME so it must be adequate for me.    Eventually I realized that the people carrying this loadout were not alone and often had a squad of M1 Garands/M1 Carbines/Thompson sub-machine guns to support them.    One guy himself could find himself really hurting with only 21 rounds of forty-five ammunition.  

It appears to me that the Secret Service deploys the 5.7 against a very specific type of threat.   That threat is an armored individual at close range.  Should the protection detail encounter a threat from an armored individual at close range then they would HAVE to engage where FBI/LEO's may be able to wait for backup or have time to switch to rifles.   And for the threat of an armored individual the 5.7 may work better than the other tools around, namely 40 S&W, 357 sig, and 9mm.   Although I cannot produce any evidence to back it up, I would be willing to bet money that those other tools are deployed close by as well.   They have the luxury of mixing and matching different tools for different scenarios just like the WWII squad.   The average guy carrying on the street doesn't have that luxury.

The 5.7 penetrates very well but the hole isn't very big.    When I shoot something from an EDC weapon I want to do as much damage as possible.   I want a wide hole that goes to deep enough to reach important things for the threats that I am most likely to encounter.   Recent threat assessments for my AO doesn't include armored targets (unless feral pigs are considered armored) so I have chosen something that works better (leaves a bigger hole) in unarmored targets than the 5.7.

And although reality says that some people will encounter it, I hope that no one here ever finds themselves in a situation where they know that they chose the wrong tool for the job.  

2Hut8
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:23:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
.40 S&W and .357 SIG are superior to 9mm for penetrating windshields and shooting the terrorist behind the wheel.
View Quote
ARFCOM chooses to ignore this fact.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:33:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:52:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:28:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yep sure is....

I seem to recall the ballistic geniuses at the FBI adopted the 147 gr 9mm Seal Team round.

They chose to ignore (or didn't bother to check) the criteria the Seal Team load was developed under

1. Must be able to reliably penetrate a Russian Great Coat (and still have enough velocity to kill)
2. Must be extremely accurate
3. Must be subsonic for use in HK MP5-SD's and the Hush Puppy

So, the round was developed as a hollow point because in their testing it was found to be more accurate than FMJ
The bullet jacket was designed to be thick so it wouldn't expand while trying to penetrate a Russian Great Coat
And it had to be subsonic so it was quiet in their suppressed weapons

Guess what, the very criteria that made it a great round for the Navy Seals made it a HORRIBLE round for Law Enforcement for use on the street!

Almost ZERO stopping power, extreme over penetration.

Unfortunately many Law Enforcement agencies were thinking "Well if it's good enough for the FBI, it will be great for us."

Well after NUMEROUS high profile through and through L.E. shootings, Law Enforcement agencies dropped it faster than they adopted it.

One case an officer shot a perp with his Navy Seal load, it didn't stop the bad guy but it went clear through and killed an innocent bystander.

Any moron could see the load was a recipe for disaster in Law Enforcement, but guess what? The FBI couldn't see it.

After the infamous Miami Shootout in 1986, guess what? The vaunted FBI blamed the failures on the 9mm, not their choice of a horrible L.E. round nor the fact the "tactics" used would be laughable if not for the tragic outcome.

Fortunately, a few major L.E. agencies looked into the FBI choice for a 9mm load and decided that it was an extremely bad idea, for the most point they adopted the Federal 9BP which had been in use by the Illinois Highway Patrol since 1967.

Yeah, I really trust FBI Testing Protocols.

And you are COMPLETELY missing the point, if 5.7x28 will completely go through 1 1/4" bulletproof glass it will shred a vehicle.

Frankly, I don't give a damn if other people don't like the 5.7x28! I've done my research and I trust the round (and the weapon) by far and away more than any other round I've carried.

Same bullshit when the U.S. Military adopted the 5.56x46 over the 7.62x51, Jeff Cooper even called the 5.56 a "Poodle Shooter". I'm sure the same crap came up when the Military switched to the 30-40 Krag from the 45-70
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Stopping power? Oh God...

So you think the current FBI standards for handgun ammo is BS? You think it's the same FBI as 30 years ago? Ok, that might be all we need to know.

I'd love to see the SS testing that you claim is better. Really.

You're also missing the point that a 556 won't "stop" a vehicle let alone a 5.7 and we are not shooting through bullet proof glass.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:24:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Glock 23 or something chambered in .40cal. This is where 40 still beats out the 9 and 45 and why most LEO are sticking with it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:00:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Glock 23 or something chambered in .40cal. This is where 40 still beats out the 9 and 45 and why most LEO are sticking with it.
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A 15+1 G20 firing hot-loaded 200gn FMJ ammo beats them all.    Penetration, penetration, ... and penetration.

Feelin' a theme?

Word, my dudenal.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:17:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
...I'd venture to say the Secret Service test trump theirs.
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How many USSS Special Agents do you know? I have around ten to fifteen as customers, both investigative and protective detail. I consider two as good friends.
NOT A SINGLE ONE prefers the FN 5.7 over their other issue firearms.
USSS Special Agents carry the Sig 229 in .357sig...........not the 5.7
Nearly every USSS office returned their FN P90's in 5.7 and continue to use KAC M4's in 5.56mm.

You 5.7 fanboys get boners over "the Secret Service uses the 5.7!!!"...........fact is the only USSS that uses the 5.7 round is the Uniformed Division, aka White House Police.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:24:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It appears to me that the Secret Service deploys the 5.7 against a very specific type of threat.    
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Quoted:
It appears to me that the Secret Service deploys the 5.7 against a very specific type of threat.    
Only at the White House apparently. And only by the Uniformed Division. As I wrote above, USSS Special Agents carry the Sig 229 and KAC M4 AR.



That threat is an armored individual at close range.  Should the protection detail encounter a threat from an armored individual at close range then they would HAVE to engage where FBI/LEO's may be able to wait for backup or have time to switch to rifles.   And for the threat of an armored individual the 5.7 may work better than the other tools around, namely 40 S&W, 357 sig, and 9mm.   Although I cannot produce any evidence to back it up, I would be willing to bet money that those other tools are deployed close by as well....
     
I 've met quite a few USSS who have been on protective details for sitting and former Presidents and their families. They don't carry 5.7 anything. The protective detail immediately around the protectee (the ones you spot on TV) are obviously very lightly armed, but VERY heavily armed agents are in close proximity.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:12:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How many USSS Special Agents do you know? I have around ten to fifteen as customers, both investigative and protective detail. I consider two as good friends.
NOT A SINGLE ONE prefers the FN 5.7 over their other issue firearms.
USSS Special Agents carry the Sig 229 in .357sig...........not the 5.7
Nearly every USSS office returned their FN P90's in 5.7 and continue to use KAC M4's in 5.56mm.

You 5.7 fanboys get boners over "the Secret Service uses the 5.7!!!"...........fact is the only USSS that uses the 5.7 round is the Uniformed Division, aka White House Police.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
...I'd venture to say the Secret Service test trump theirs.
How many USSS Special Agents do you know? I have around ten to fifteen as customers, both investigative and protective detail. I consider two as good friends.
NOT A SINGLE ONE prefers the FN 5.7 over their other issue firearms.
USSS Special Agents carry the Sig 229 in .357sig...........not the 5.7
Nearly every USSS office returned their FN P90's in 5.7 and continue to use KAC M4's in 5.56mm.

You 5.7 fanboys get boners over "the Secret Service uses the 5.7!!!"...........fact is the only USSS that uses the 5.7 round is the Uniformed Division, aka White House Police.
While I don't really care who uses the 5.7 or doesn't, the Uniformed Division is more likely to actually use their firearms in the line of duty than the agents. They also happened to run the CAT (not sure if they still do).
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:56:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Only at the White House apparently. And only by the Uniformed Division. As I wrote above, USSS Special Agents carry the Sig 229 and KAC M4 AR.



     
I 've met quite a few USSS who have been on protective details for sitting and former Presidents and their families. They don't carry 5.7 anything. The protective detail immediately around the protectee (the ones you spot on TV) are obviously very lightly armed, but VERY heavily armed agents are in close proximity.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It appears to me that the Secret Service deploys the 5.7 against a very specific type of threat.    
Only at the White House apparently. And only by the Uniformed Division. As I wrote above, USSS Special Agents carry the Sig 229 and KAC M4 AR.



That threat is an armored individual at close range.  Should the protection detail encounter a threat from an armored individual at close range then they would HAVE to engage where FBI/LEO's may be able to wait for backup or have time to switch to rifles.   And for the threat of an armored individual the 5.7 may work better than the other tools around, namely 40 S&W, 357 sig, and 9mm.   Although I cannot produce any evidence to back it up, I would be willing to bet money that those other tools are deployed close by as well....
     
I 've met quite a few USSS who have been on protective details for sitting and former Presidents and their families. They don't carry 5.7 anything. The protective detail immediately around the protectee (the ones you spot on TV) are obviously very lightly armed, but VERY heavily armed agents are in close proximity.
Thank you for the clarification.

2Hut8
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:19:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Screw this handgun bullshit (5.7, .357, .40S&W) against some terrorist car-rammin' asshole.

Just Mini-G the fucker and call it good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XlYJacucucQ

Here's some hillbillys with their Mini-Gs getting pumped up with some FamFire:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-mATs4ngRdo
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 9:27:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 9:35:00 PM EDT
[#48]
I heard this works but the recoil hurts and the blast is an ear crusher.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M114_155_mm_howitzer
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 9:43:37 PM EDT
[#49]
This would put a hurt on a Pinto I think.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/49477/redirect
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 10:06:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Actually, I've worked with two. One freshly retired from Presidential Protection detail now working as an EPA Criminal Investigator. And I've worked two cases with the same agent from counterfeiting investigations. (That was the ORIGINAL reason the Secret Service was created for in 1865)

When you've been working L.E. for 32 years you tend to make contacts.

Frankly I don't give a flying fuck whether you like the round or not! I KNOW what the capabilities are, I trust my ass to it and I venture to say I've probably been in harms way many more time than most of the posters in this thread unless they were involved in an active combat unit in the military.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

How many USSS Special Agents do you know? I have around ten to fifteen as customers, both investigative and protective detail. I consider two as good friends.
NOT A SINGLE ONE prefers the FN 5.7 over their other issue firearms.
USSS Special Agents carry the Sig 229 in .357sig...........not the 5.7
Nearly every USSS office returned their FN P90's in 5.7 and continue to use KAC M4's in 5.56mm.

You 5.7 fanboys get boners over "the Secret Service uses the 5.7!!!"...........fact is the only USSS that uses the 5.7 round is the Uniformed Division, aka White House Police.
Actually, I've worked with two. One freshly retired from Presidential Protection detail now working as an EPA Criminal Investigator. And I've worked two cases with the same agent from counterfeiting investigations. (That was the ORIGINAL reason the Secret Service was created for in 1865)

When you've been working L.E. for 32 years you tend to make contacts.

Frankly I don't give a flying fuck whether you like the round or not! I KNOW what the capabilities are, I trust my ass to it and I venture to say I've probably been in harms way many more time than most of the posters in this thread unless they were involved in an active combat unit in the military.
Im still waiting on the secret service tests for the 5.7. I'll wait untill you're done getting over yourself.
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