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Posted: 1/1/2006 8:20:36 PM EDT
I hear this term sometime, and have no clue what it is.

I read on wikipedia but that didn't really clear it up either.

Is it a person who says its all about the enviroment and culture and not about the individual? Like if you take a person out of the ghetto they will become a perfect middle class person just by changing thier enviroment and circumstances? Or is that a moral relativist, saying that anyone in that situation would act the same way, etc?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:29:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 8:31:51 PM EDT by raven]
Basically that man can look for living a good life without religion, relying on morality, reason, philosophy, etc for guidance instead. Concern with living a good fulfilled life in the here and now, not with the afterlife or being concerned with obeying god and the church. That man is inherently good or innocent, and not damned to hell from birth and needing salvation from religion.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:43:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Basically that man can look for living a good life without religion, relying on morality, reason, philosophy, etc for guidance instead. Concern with living a good fulfilled life in the here and now, not with the afterlife or being concerned with obeying god and the church. That man is inherently good or innocent, and not damned to hell from birth and needing salvation from religion.




That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:45:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 8:51:09 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By FatCobra:

Originally Posted By raven:
Basically that man can look for living a good life without religion, relying on morality, reason, philosophy, etc for guidance instead. Concern with living a good fulfilled life in the here and now, not with the afterlife or being concerned with obeying god and the church. That man is inherently good or innocent, and not damned to hell from birth and needing salvation from religion.




That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.



Pascal's Wager. He played it safe too.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:19:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FatCobra:

Originally Posted By raven:
Basically that man can look for living a good life without religion, relying on morality, reason, philosophy, etc for guidance instead. Concern with living a good fulfilled life in the here and now, not with the afterlife or being concerned with obeying god and the church. That man is inherently good or innocent, and not damned to hell from birth and needing salvation from religion.




That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.



So are you a good person, assuming that you are, only because you want the reward of heaven and/or are afraid of hell? Does that mean that mankind is not inherently good, and it takes reward and punishment for us to not pillage, plunder, rape, and burn for no reason at all? Or are we like children that still don't know any better?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:29:40 PM EDT
It's the communists substitute for religeon.

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:35:07 PM EDT
It means behave yourself, or we'll clean your clock, in case God isn't around to do it.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:45:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FatCobra:

Originally Posted By raven:
Basically that man can look for living a good life without religion, relying on morality, reason, philosophy, etc for guidance instead. Concern with living a good fulfilled life in the here and now, not with the afterlife or being concerned with obeying god and the church. That man is inherently good or innocent, and not damned to hell from birth and needing salvation from religion.




That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.



And Christianity is a guarantee? What if the Jews are right? What if you are Protestant and the Catholics are right?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:01:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FatCobra:
That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.



I never have understood that. Wouldn't God know if I was only playing along in an attempt to play it safe?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:02:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By FatCobra:

Originally Posted By raven:
Basically that man can look for living a good life without religion, relying on morality, reason, philosophy, etc for guidance instead. Concern with living a good fulfilled life in the here and now, not with the afterlife or being concerned with obeying god and the church. That man is inherently good or innocent, and not damned to hell from birth and needing salvation from religion.




That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.



And Christianity is a guarantee? What if the Jews are right? What if you are Protestant and the Catholics are right?



ALL those groups mentioned above worship the SAME GOD so I am confident they will all make it. You pick your religion (muslim, hindu or whatever <--- IMO those people aint gonna make it) and take your chance.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:05:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:

Originally Posted By FatCobra:
That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.



I never have understood that. Wouldn't God know if I was only playing along in an attempt to play it safe?



Thats EXACTLY what you are supposed to do (play along). Now if you are saying you are faking it to try to get in. Then NO of course not. GOD see's ALL. You are not going to fool GOD.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:01:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard: It's the communists substitute for religeon.
Yep. They want you to worship your fellow man. That way it's easier for a man like Stalin to pull the wool over your eyes.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:04:49 AM EDT
Secular humanism is not exactly a religion, more a philosophy. It's also not necessarily liberal, although the most outspoken and well known secular humanists are liberal.
As for "taking the chance," anyone who stakes out ANY belief system, including Christianity, is taking a chance they are wrong. Just because you believe in and worship a "god" doesn't mean you worship the right one or in the correct manner to be in its/his/her favor, if any supreme being/s do/es exist.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:06:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

And Christianity is a guarantee? What if the Jews are right? What if you are Protestant and the Catholics are right?



Yes it is.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:24:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DarkHalf:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

And Christianity is a guarantee? What if the Jews are right? What if you are Protestant and the Catholics are right?



Yes it is.



My, how eloquently argued.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:35:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's the communists substitute for religeon.




+1 As simple as that.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:36:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fatk1d:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's the communists substitute for religeon.




+1 As simple as that.



Simple answers for simple minds.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:43:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By fatk1d:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's the communists substitute for religeon.




+1 As simple as that.



Simple answers for simple minds.



Yeah, probably. "Religeon is the opiate for the people." Ring any bells?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:52:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fatk1d:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By fatk1d:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's the communists substitute for religeon.




+1 As simple as that.



Simple answers for simple minds.



Yeah, probably. "Religeon is the opiate for the people." Ring any bells?



Spell check...ring any bells? It's RELIGION. And what does a misquoting of Marx have to do with our discussion?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:02:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By fatk1d:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By fatk1d:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's the communists substitute for religeon.




+1 As simple as that.



Simple answers for simple minds.



Yeah, probably. "Religeon is the opiate for the people." Ring any bells?



Spell check...ring any bells? It's RELIGION. And what does a misquoting of Marx have to do with our discussion?



Pardon me, professor ... RELIGION. Perhaps it's not word-for-word but someone as smart as you obvisouly are should get the point.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:09:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fatk1d:
Pardon me, professor ... RELIGION. Perhaps it's not word-for-word but someone as smart as you obvisouly are should get the point.



But I don't get your point. Is it that Marxists are anti-religion? Well, Gee, that's a news flash, but what does it PROVE? You supported the statement that secular humanism is the religion of Communism, "it's that simple." How does your showing that Communists are anti-religion prove that secular humanists are Communists? I am not religious, and my philosophy is definitely secular if not necessarily humanistic, but I am certainly no Communist. Not all Communists are atheists and not all atheists are Communists.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:15:50 AM EDT
A punk ass Godless Commie.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:16:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IceHandLuke:
A punk ass Godless Commie.



Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:22:46 AM EDT
IBTMTTRF
(In before the move to the religion forum)

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:29:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 9:36:18 AM EDT by Dino]

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's the communists substitute for religeon.




Really?

What Is Secular Humanism?

Secular Humanism is a term which has come into use in the last thirty years to describe a world view with the following elements and principles:

* A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
* Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
* A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
* A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
* A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
* A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
* A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.


Here is one of the Affirmations of Secular Humanism


We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.





Yes, of course you are right, that sounds EXACTLY like communism.....

Communism could never replace religion, it exists in every communist country (not so many of those any more eh) and existed in all former communist country. There is no country where communism has beena able to stamp out religion.



Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:30:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
IBTMTTRF
(In before the move to the religion forum)




It'll get locked as soon as it hits the religious forum.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:34:28 AM EDT
I'd think gun-owners would understand a concept as simple as secular humanism. It's a familiar argument:

It's all about personal responsibility. You can be a good member of society without a deity watching over your shoulder, threatening eternal damnation for the slightest transgression.

I can lead a productive life and give back to society without needing a reward for it in the afterlife.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:04:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FatCobra:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By FatCobra:

Originally Posted By raven:
Basically that man can look for living a good life without religion, relying on morality, reason, philosophy, etc for guidance instead. Concern with living a good fulfilled life in the here and now, not with the afterlife or being concerned with obeying god and the church. That man is inherently good or innocent, and not damned to hell from birth and needing salvation from religion.




That brings up the question. Are you willing to take the chance? It scares the shit outta me so I wont take the chance.



And Christianity is a guarantee? What if the Jews are right? What if you are Protestant and the Catholics are right?



ALL those groups mentioned above worship the SAME GOD so I am confident they will all make it. You pick your religion (muslim, hindu or whatever <--- IMO those people aint gonna make it) and take your chance.



Muslims worship the same god as christians and jews.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:03:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 2:03:51 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Muslims worship the same god as christians and jews.



The True Believers are going to jump you for that

Even though its true.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:50:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Muslims worship the same god as christians and jews.



The True Believers are going to jump you for that

Even though its true.



It's true they BELIEVE they worship the same God. But if the God of the Christians and the Jews exists, I doubt He'd be too happy with HOW they worship Him...
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:54:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Muslims worship the same god as christians and jews.



The True Believers are going to jump you for that

Even though its true.



It's true they BELIEVE they worship the same God. But if the God of the Christians and the Jews exists, I doubt He'd be too happy with HOW they worship Him...



Exactly.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:05:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Muslims worship the same god as christians and jews.



The True Believers are going to jump you for that

Even though its true.



It's true they BELIEVE they worship the same God. But if the God of the Christians and the Jews exists, I doubt He'd be too happy with HOW they worship Him...



Muslims believe that they worship the same God as do Jews and Christians. They are wrong.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:14:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FatCobra:
ALL those groups mentioned above worship the SAME GOD so I am confident they will all make it. You pick your religion (muslim, hindu or whatever <--- IMO those people aint gonna make it) and take your chance.



Given that the vast majority of humans in both recorded and unrecorded history were not Christians,its foolish to think that any one faith has a lock on whatever afterlife exists.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:22:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Here is one of the Affirmations of Secular Humanism

We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems. In contrast to whom?

We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation. "Deplore," huh? Seems a bit judgmental for a crew dedicated to tossing the salad of every identifiable grievance group on earth.

We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life. There's a bold assertion.

We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities. You lack a basic understanding of human nature, a familiarity with human history, and/or access to a decent dictionary if you think that democracy offers any "guarantee of protecting human rights from . . . repressive majorities."

We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.

We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding. To what other ends might negotiation and compromise be means?

We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.

We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.

We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity. The common good being defined by whom, exactly?

We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species. Does that mean no fishing, or just barbless hooks?

We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest. Another bold stroke.

We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.

We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.

We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences. If the "test" is consequences, it's utilitarianism, not morality.

We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.

We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.

We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking. "Citizens of the universe."

We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.

We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.

We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.



And in conclusion, I can say only two things: 1. ; 2. Who told the 7th Graders they were qualified to enunciate a philosophy?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:25:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By FatCobra:
ALL those groups mentioned above worship the SAME GOD so I am confident they will all make it. You pick your religion (muslim, hindu or whatever <--- IMO those people aint gonna make it) and take your chance.



Given that the vast majority of humans in both recorded and unrecorded history were not Christians,its foolish to think that any one faith has a lock on whatever afterlife exists.



That's a pretty complete non sequitur, like saying that because the vast majority of humans in both recorded and unrecorded history would die if they caught pneumonia, it's foolish to think that modern medicine has a lock on curing lung infections.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:17:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 5:22:55 PM EDT by FatCobra]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Muslims worship the same god as christians and jews.



The True Believers are going to jump you for that

Even though its true.




No, They don’t. Why do you think they want to MURDER us? We are non believers. Infidels.

We have NOTHING in common.

Islam rises and falls on Muhammad. He is the religion's sole prophet, Islam’s solitary example, Allah’s lone conduit. Without Muhammad, Allah, the Qur’an, and Islam would be unknown.

Muhammad, a seventh century Arab, purported to be the Messenger of God. That much we know for sure. The Qur’an, he claimed, was a series of revelations he received directly from a nameless Lord.
The inspirational experience was described by Muhammad to be like a bell, clanging in his head, causing him to shake and sweat profusely. These rather nasty experiences continued, he said, until he was able to decipher the message. Thus the Qur’an, Muslims believe, is God’s revelation to man through his final and most important prophet.
Yet only Muhammad heard these “revelations.” He offered no evidence of his divine inspiration—we take the Qur’an solely on his word. The Bible, by comparison, had forty authors, all literate, who told a consistent story over the course of fifteen centuries. Muhammad, who was admittedly illiterate, acted alone in the formation of Islam and is alleged to have invented his religion over the course of twenty-two years.

Muhammad, Allah, Mecca, and the formation of Islam are completely unknown to secular history. All we know of them is derived from the Qur’an and Hadith. The earliest and most important collection of Hadith is called the Sira, or Biography. Compiled by Ibn Ishaq, the Sira provides the only written account of this man, his god, place and religion within two centuries of his death. There is no other valid source from which Muhammad can be seen, or Islam can be interpreted, differently.

Over a billion people live in nations controlled by Islamic principles. Thus to many, Muhammad was a rousing success. Yet these very same nations are among the world’s most destitute, least free, and most violent. And they are the fountain of terror, providing the money, men, motive, and means for murder. In that light, Muhammad’s legacy is considerably more tarnished.
There were no miracles to prove Muhammad’s claim of being a godly conduit. There were no healings, walking on water, parting seas, raising folks from the dead, or feeding multitudes. And there are no fulfilled prophecies, like the exacting and detailed predictions that Biblical prophets routinely made to demonstrate their divine authority. But the most troubling part about our absolute reliance on Muhammad’s testimony that he and his Qur’an were divinely inspired is that the prophet’s character was as deficient, and his life was as despicable, as anyone who has ever lived.

prophet of doom
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:27:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IceHandLuke:
A punk ass Godless Commie.



+1

...and 9 times out of 10, will vote to limit your second amendment freedoms.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:33:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 6:36:48 PM EDT by DriftPunch]
I consider myself a secular humanist, but if all those things in Dino's post are true, perhaps I'm more of a pure secularist. Sure some of the biggest liberals are secularists, but being from the same state as Robertson and Fallwell, it's not too pretty on the other side of the pendulums arc either. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc (or something...)

The fact is, that many of you forget that Communism attempts to replace religion with worship of the state. Not thinking that, or not caring that, this practice was simply another religion in the making with all the pitfalls of what they were trying to suppress. Obviously, this doesn't matter when you (the commies) benefit.

The beauty of this country is that I don't care one bit about what you think of my beliefs, nor do I have to care about yours. I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it that way, just as I'll fight you tooth and nail when you try and force your religion upon the public cloaked in the O'Reillyesque spirit of 'Majority Will'.

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:38:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 6:39:45 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]

Originally Posted By FatCobra:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Muslims worship the same god as christians and jews.



The True Believers are going to jump you for that

Even though its true.




No, They don’t. Why do you think they want to MURDER us? We are non believers. Infidels.

We have NOTHING in common.

Islam rises and falls on Muhammad. He is the religion's sole prophet, Islam’s solitary example, Allah’s lone conduit. Without Muhammad, Allah, the Qur’an, and Islam would be unknown.



Islam has multiple prophets, including Jesus

The origins of the Koran are in the Hebrew bible as well.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:24:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Islam has multiple prophets, including Jesus

The origins of the Koran are in the Hebrew bible* as well.



*As garbled by an illiterate megalomaniac.

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:31:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Islam has multiple prophets, including Jesus

The origins of the Koran are in the Hebrew bible* as well.



*As garbled by an illiterate megalomaniac.



I am SICK AND TIRED of you people bashing one of the greatist humanitarians who ever lived! Just because he Had people murdered at his command, slept with Children, robbed and stole from "non-belivers", took women as war booty sex slaves, said it was OK to rape captive women, said that hell is full of mostly women, said beating women is OK (well actually HE did'nt say it God said it, RIGHT? ), Sacraficed animals blood to his so called God, said women are deficient in religion and had his followers destroy countless cultures and peoples does'nt mean he was'nt a "good" man! I mean come on, what does this so-called White mans "good" mean anyway?? One man's good is another mans evil, right??
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:31:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 2:47:05 AM EDT by FatCobra]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Islam has multiple prophets, including Jesus

The origins of the Koran are in the Hebrew bible as well.




Every singe word you just wrote is COMPLETLY FALSE! The bible was created thousands of years before Islam. The Judeo-Christian faiths are wholly independent and separate from Islam. The Bible doesn’t mention Muhammad, Muslims, Islam, Allah, Mecca, or the Ka’aba.

YOU HAVE ZERO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.

Muhammad is the religion's sole prophet. Without him Islam would be unknown.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:33:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.



No, democracy is a bad idea.

A Republic, on the other hand, does a fine job of allowing the majority to rule while protecting the rights of the minority.

You would think with all that dedication to facts and "reason" they could get that little detail right.

I know lots of secular humanists. With the exception of a couple of very level headed chaps, the majority that I have interacted with are the least reasonable people I have ever met. The most vocal ones I know rant often about Bush and his hurricane machines....
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:36:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Dino:

Here is one of the Affirmations of Secular Humanism

We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems. In contrast to whom?

We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation. "Deplore," huh? Seems a bit judgmental for a crew dedicated to tossing the salad of every identifiable grievance group on earth.

We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life. There's a bold assertion.

We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities. You lack a basic understanding of human nature, a familiarity with human history, and/or access to a decent dictionary if you think that democracy offers any "guarantee of protecting human rights from . . . repressive majorities."

We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.

We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding. To what other ends might negotiation and compromise be means?

We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.

We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.

We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity. The common good being defined by whom, exactly?

We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species. Does that mean no fishing, or just barbless hooks?

We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest. Another bold stroke.

We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.

We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.

We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences. If the "test" is consequences, it's utilitarianism, not morality.

We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.

We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.

We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking. "Citizens of the universe."

We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.

We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.

We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.



And in conclusion, I can say only two things: 1. ; 2. Who told the 7th Graders they were qualified to enunciate a philosophy?



Indeed.

Some points of that little manifesto are harmless.

Others are libbie drivel taken right from the DU kool-aid jar.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:39:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FatCobra:
Every singe word you just wrote is COMPLETLY FALSE!



Not exactly.



The bible was created thousands of years before Islam.



Islam is younger than Judaism and Christianity, but the NT scriptures are not thousands of years older than Islam. A couple of hundred years at best.



The Judeo-Christian faiths are wholly independent and separate from Islam. The Bible doesn’t mention Muhammad, Muslims, Islam, Allah, Mecca, or the Ka’aba.



Correct.

Islam, however, regards Jesus as a prophet, though they do not believe He is the Son of God. The Koran teaches that Jesus was virgin born, sinless, and that He performed miracles, but also teaches that Mohammed is a superior prophet.


YOU HAVE ZERO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.

Muhammad is the religion's sole prophet. Without him Islam would be unknown.



The Koran holds Jewish and Christian scripture with some reverence, but claims that it is a more perfect source.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:41:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
The beauty of this country is that I don't care one bit about what you think of my beliefs, nor do I have to care about yours. I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it that way, just as I'll fight you tooth and nail when you try and force your religion upon the public cloaked in the O'Reillyesque spirit of 'Majority Will'.



As a point of order, when 60 percent of the population wants something like a Nativity display, that is not "forcing religion upon the public".

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:07:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
The beauty of this country is that I don't care one bit about what you think of my beliefs, nor do I have to care about yours. I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it that way, just as I'll fight you tooth and nail when you try and force your religion upon the public cloaked in the O'Reillyesque spirit of 'Majority Will'.



As a point of order, when 60 percent of the population wants something like a Nativity display, that is not "forcing religion upon the public".





Why is it that only in the past hundred years that the atheists have decided to object to everyone else being Christian around here? They developed their atheism while living in our society, so why do they think that no one else could?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:15:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beltfedleadhead:
I'd think gun-owners would understand a concept as simple as secular humanism. It's a familiar argument:

It's all about personal responsibility. You can be a good member of society without a deity watching over your shoulder, threatening eternal damnation for the slightest transgression.

I can lead a productive life and give back to society without needing a reward for it in the afterlife.



... Good summary.

... Oh yeah, 18/Lock
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:25:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
The beauty of this country is that I don't care one bit about what you think of my beliefs, nor do I have to care about yours. I'll fight tooth and nail to keep it that way, just as I'll fight you tooth and nail when you try and force your religion upon the public cloaked in the O'Reillyesque spirit of 'Majority Will'.



As a point of order, when 60 percent of the population wants something like a Nativity display, that is not "forcing religion upon the public".




Didn't you just point out the difference between a Republic and a Democracy?

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:38:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Islam is younger than Judaism and Christianity, but the NT scriptures are not thousands of years older than Islam. A couple of hundred years at best.




The bible was started around 1400BC IIRC. Muhammad was 2000 years later. I know you stated NT but that wasn’t my original point. Also I believe the NT was completed 60 or 80AD. 600 years or so before Muhammad. There is no way any of the Bible prophets were affiliated with Islam. Muhammad stole and perverted his stories from the Bible. He was its sole prophet. The ONLY evidence of its existence.

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:40:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

The Koran teaches.........that Mohammed is a superior prophet.




Yet he had no evidence and provided ZERO proof. Unlike the Bible.
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