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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:02:22 PM EDT
Maybe my young eyes and mind don't know the whole story, so I'm asking GD.

It seems like Colt used to be a highly admired company, relatively on the cutting edge of weapons design.  

They had a premier rifle in the AR15 (when there were few other AR15s or semi-autos in a similar caliber in general).
They had a premier pistol in the 1911.
They had a premier double-action revolver in the Python.
They had other double-action revolvers such as the King Cobra, Detective Special, etc.  
They had the .22 autoloader whose name I'm forgetting (Woodsman?)

And then in the early 1990s they had a bankruptcy reorganization.  Looking at their catalog today, they have about 10 versions of the 1911 (yawn) and 6 versions of the AR15 which doesn't seem radically different than 6 similar versions from 10 other competitors.  They also have a big 'historical' catalog of single actions, custom shop 1911s, etc.  

Did Colt rest on its laurels and quit innovating?  Or, did they figure out they can make more money catering to the collector market (leveraging their history) than by making modern weapons?  Or, did they find out they could make more money selling to LEOs and the military than civilians, and the civilian business took a sideline?  

I mean, seriously, their most-modern weapon, as far as I can tell, is a 60 year old design.  What went wrong?

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:08:13 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd say their number one problem was price. Few companies can survive on collector interest alone. Many companies make guns nearly as good as Colt but much cheaper. I'd pay more for a Colt but most will not.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:12:00 PM EDT
[#2]
from what I've read a good part of it was that they didn't really create anything new after WWII or put money into their infastructure like S&W did. S&W ended up surpassing them in the law enforcement market by the 1970s
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:13:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:16:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Colt still makes some of the best AR's available.  And that SP901 is looking very promising.  Good to see Colt doing something cool like that.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:17:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Why spend more on a colt than other companies products of equal or higher quality per dollar spend?

Hell Colt is made in CT and we cant even OWN a Colt AR-15 or AR-15 Sporter.. just because of the name ( Literally banned by name) They did nothing about it. They didnt make a Colt CT-15 ( which by name would have been legal and how expensive would changing two letters in a model name be?) They did nothing so as far as im concerned Colt can go suck start one of their 1911s



Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:19:19 PM EDT
[#6]
MUST have been mismanaged.  They had government contracts.  You'd think even a circus monkey running the show couldn't fuck it up.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:21:21 PM EDT
[#7]
For those that follow these things, check out the price of the publicly traded Colt Defense bonds (19686TAA5).  Trading as though Colt BK is imminent....

(Yes I know that Colt Defense is different then their civilian manufacturing subsidiary, but still...)
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:24:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Colt SP901


That is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what is wrong with Colt... to say that the price will be less than 10,000 is not very promising.

To the average consumer, less than $10,000 = too expensive for me.

If it were to cost $3,000, Colt could have simply said that it will cost $3K, but we all know a "less than $10,000" price is closer to 10K than it is to 1K.

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:28:01 PM EDT
[#9]
It's a damn shame that with CCW guns becoming such a massively huge part of the market, that Colt is sitting on some of the best designs out there and not producing them.  



If they could produce the Agent again at a price point slightly higher than a J-frame, and bring back the Pocket Nine at a Kahr-like price, they'd have more money than they'd know what to do with.  A prime example of this is Sig eating their lunch with a Mustang clone, when they should have never stopped making the Mustang to begin with.



If even Ruger could come around and realize that CCW is where the money is at, then I'd hope Colt could figure it out someday...
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:29:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Here please let me be the first.................Look for the Union Label.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:30:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Why spend more on a colt than other companies products of equal or higher quality per dollar spend?

Hell Colt is made in CT and we cant even OWN a Colt AR-15 or AR-15 Sporter.. just because of the name ( Literally banned by name) They did nothing about it. They didnt make a Colt CT-15 ( which by name would have been legal and how expensive would changing two letters in a model name be?) They did nothing so as far as im concerned Colt can go suck start one of their 1911s




How is what the politicians in your state (the ones the people of conneticut voted for) did colts fault? Just sayin.

Me my myself I love my colt's and will continue to buy em.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:32:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:

Me my myself I love my colt's and will continue to buy em.


It doesn't get boring buying the same 3 guns over and over?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:33:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Colt is still tops in my book...FN is up their too along with a few others but it seems like you get the best price for the guns with a dancing horse when you go to sell them
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:36:25 PM EDT
[#14]
The Diamondback & Python frames required lots of hand labor, and according ARFCOM member "Dfraiswheel," the people were making them were fewer and fewer. Hence no more Pythons and Diamondbacks. Possibly, other revolvers using the updated Troop Mark III/King Cobra action, which can be made by machines.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:38:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Why spend more on a colt than other companies products of equal or higher quality per dollar spend?

Hell Colt is made in CT and we cant even OWN a Colt AR-15 or AR-15 Sporter.. just because of the name ( Literally banned by name) They did nothing about it. They didnt make a Colt CT-15 ( which by name would have been legal and how expensive would changing two letters in a model name be?) They did nothing so as far as im concerned Colt can go suck start one of their 1911s


It won't work out-of-the-box so they'd have to send it to gunsmith first.

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:38:39 PM EDT
[#16]
No problem here, I like Colt and will continue to use their products.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:38:54 PM EDT
[#17]
the market place changed, manufacturing techniques changed....Colt did not change.

They went from being a huge supplier of guns in the commercial marketplace to one that few talk about today in the span of about 10 years.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:39:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Colt is making some nice stuff these days. I don't think they have much of a problem with selling about all they make. Unlike a lot of gun companies, they have resisted making everything that can possibly be made out of MIM and their prices are pretty reasonable.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:39:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt SP901

That is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what is wrong with Colt... to say that the price will be less than 10,000 is not very promising.

To the average consumer, less than $10,000 = too expensive for me.

If it were to cost $3,000, Colt could have simply said that it will cost $3K, but we all know a "less than $10,000" price is closer to 10K than it is to 1K.

Wait, wut?

This rifle will cost how much???

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:39:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Me my myself I love my colt's and will continue to buy em.


It doesn't get boring buying the same 3 guns over and over?


Oh I have others, but I do love my colts. especially my 6940.

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:40:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Me my myself I love my colt's and will continue to buy em.

It doesn't get boring buying the same 3 guns over and over?

BURN.

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:41:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Here please let me be the first.................Look for the Union Label.


UAW to be precise.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:44:14 PM EDT
[#23]
In before people pass bad information, myths and inaccuracies off as fact.......Oh wait
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:46:16 PM EDT
[#24]
like plastic mainspring housings?


Quoted:


Colt is making some nice stuff these days. I don't think they have much of a problem with selling about all they make. Unlike a lot of gun companies, they have resisted making everything that can possibly be made out of MIM and their prices are pretty reasonable.






 
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:47:23 PM EDT
[#25]
In the 80s the UAW took them over and fucked the brand royally.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:47:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Why spend more on a colt than other companies products of equal or higher quality per dollar spend?

Hell Colt is made in CT and we cant even OWN a Colt AR-15 or AR-15 Sporter.. just because of the name ( Literally banned by name) They did nothing about it. They didnt make a Colt CT-15 ( which by name would have been legal and how expensive would changing two letters in a model name be?) They did nothing so as far as im concerned Colt can go suck start one of their 1911s





We couldn't own any of those models anyways due to feature count,  Which is why they make an ENTIRE LINE of postban configured rifles under the "Match Target" series.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:48:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt SP901

That is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what is wrong with Colt... to say that the price will be less than 10,000 is not very promising.

To the average consumer, less than $10,000 = too expensive for me.

If it were to cost $3,000, Colt could have simply said that it will cost $3K, but we all know a "less than $10,000" price is closer to 10K than it is to 1K.

Wait, wut?

This rifle will cost how much???



Their price for it was not said except that "It will cost less than $10,000".

I have a few Colt's and hold nothing against Colt, yet the only time I will buy a Colt approaching 10K or more would be a M16.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:51:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt SP901

That is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what is wrong with Colt... to say that the price will be less than 10,000 is not very promising.

To the average consumer, less than $10,000 = too expensive for me.

If it were to cost $3,000, Colt could have simply said that it will cost $3K, but we all know a "less than $10,000" price is closer to 10K than it is to 1K.

Wait, wut?

This rifle will cost how much???



Their price for it was not said except that "It will cost less than $10,000".

I have a few Colt's and hold nothing against Colt, yet the only time I will buy a Colt approaching 10K or more would be a M16.


You are basing this pricing info from one source.  A blog with a 2 min video clip.  I would wait until OFFICIAL pricing is announced before going off the deep end.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:53:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:54:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here please let me be the first.................Look for the Union Label.


UAW to be precise.


Yup.

Can we see a pattern in what the UAW does to companies yet?


The UAW accounts for some of the manufacturing workforce.  They in no way, shape or form control the company.  On top of that, very few companies are "just as good as" Colt.  On top of that, Colt can produce a product, to a standard, at a large quantity and a certain price that almost no others can.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:56:28 PM EDT
[#31]
The entire "gun scene" has changed.

"Assault rifles" are more popular then ever;

Revolvers are so 1970s.

Any assclown with a CNC machine can open up a gun company.

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:56:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
like plastic mainspring housings?
Quoted:
Colt is making some nice stuff these days. I don't think they have much of a problem with selling about all they make. Unlike a lot of gun companies, they have resisted making everything that can possibly be made out of MIM and their prices are pretty reasonable.


 


Ever seen a broken one? I've HEARD of ONE.  Some have them, some models don't if it's a big deal to you.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:57:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:59:22 PM EDT
[#34]
I am usually the first to point out the rampant tomfoolery that has been Colt, but you gotta be fair to them ... it has been a while since they put out a true stinker like the All American 2000.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:59:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt SP901

That is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what is wrong with Colt... to say that the price will be less than 10,000 is not very promising.

To the average consumer, less than $10,000 = too expensive for me.

If it were to cost $3,000, Colt could have simply said that it will cost $3K, but we all know a "less than $10,000" price is closer to 10K than it is to 1K.

Wait, wut?

This rifle will cost how much???






christ almighty,

the rep said that in jest.  but some love to take something out of context just to use it against someone  like a liberal tactic

the SP901 will be under 2000


colt sells everything they make.  and still make to a standard few other companies will hold to

yeah yeah.." milspec isnt the best"  maybe not. but if its such a shitty standard why do soooo many other  "just as good brands" have trouble even meeting that lowly standard?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:01:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt SP901

That is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what is wrong with Colt... to say that the price will be less than 10,000 is not very promising.

To the average consumer, less than $10,000 = too expensive for me.

If it were to cost $3,000, Colt could have simply said that it will cost $3K, but we all know a "less than $10,000" price is closer to 10K than it is to 1K.

Wait, wut?

This rifle will cost how much???



Their price for it was not said except that "It will cost less than $10,000".

I have a few Colt's and hold nothing against Colt, yet the only time I will buy a Colt approaching 10K or more would be a M16.


You are basing this pricing info from one source.  A blog with a 2 min video clip.  I would wait until OFFICIAL pricing is announced before going off the deep end.


Considering who the source is and that this is the closest thing we have to a price, as no one else was given pricing details... it could very be an accurate representation of its price. But at the same time, maybe it will only cost $2500 and I am totally wrong.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:02:12 PM EDT
[#37]
I'd like to buy a 1911 or Peacemaker from them just so I have the 'real deal', but what they make is no different than any of the other manufacturer's of those, and twice the price.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:02:35 PM EDT
[#38]
A lot of Colt stock was owned or still is by the CT. teachers unions , they are anti gun and wanted the company ran that way.  I read this years ago not sure if it is still true
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:02:38 PM EDT
[#39]




Quoted:

Why spend more on a colt than other companies products of equal or higher quality per dollar spend?



Hell Colt is made in CT and we cant even OWN a Colt AR-15 or AR-15 Sporter.. just because of the name ( Literally banned by name) They did nothing about it. They didn't make a Colt CT-15 ( which by name would have been legal and how expensive would changing two letters in a model name be?) They did nothing so as far as I'm concerned Colt can go suck start one of their 1911s





I can't speak for the Colt folks, but if I owned a firearms manufacturing company in a certain state that prohibited it's citizens from owning my premiere product, I'd move my factory(s) to a friendlier state before the former could even blink twice.



Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:03:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I'd say their number one problem was price. Few companies can survive on collector interest alone. Many companies make guns nearly as good as Colt but much cheaper. I'd pay more for a Colt but most will not.


Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:03:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here please let me be the first.................Look for the Union Label.


UAW to be precise.


Yup.

Can we see a pattern in what the UAW does to companies yet?


The UAW accounts for some of the manufacturing workforce.  They in no way, shape or form control the company.


But they have enough power to move labor costs above market rates, thus increase product cost, while protecting less that adequate workers who will continue to do substandard work.

The UAW didn't control GM before the bailout, but they damm sure did have a huge impact on the company.





so what?


colt makes  the closest thing to a real M4 you can get. and still comes in cheaper then  most other companies that supposedly make the same thing.    what your local bubba FF asks for a colt. is not the same  as what it really goes  for. I bought a 6940 for 1200 bucks.

who else sells a gun with those features for less then that with the same quality?   and  griping about it not being a middy or the rail doesnt look the right color is not an excuse,  quality is there.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:03:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt SP901

That is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what is wrong with Colt... to say that the price will be less than 10,000 is not very promising.

To the average consumer, less than $10,000 = too expensive for me.

If it were to cost $3,000, Colt could have simply said that it will cost $3K, but we all know a "less than $10,000" price is closer to 10K than it is to 1K.

Wait, wut?

This rifle will cost how much???






christ almighty,

the rep said that in jest.  but some love to take something out of context just to use it against someone  like a liberal tactic

the SP901 will be under 2000


colt sells everything they make.  and still make to a standard few other companies will hold to

yeah yeah.." milspec isnt the best"  maybe not. but if its such a shitty standard why do soooo many other  "just as good brands" have trouble even meeting that lowly standard?


Ok, the REP said it. There was no other pricing info given. Jest or not, that is the only info out there... I doubt though that it will be under 2K unless you know something we don't...
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:04:06 PM EDT
[#43]
They got crushed by their labor costs.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:05:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I'd like to buy a 1911 or Peacemaker from them just so I have the 'real deal', but what they make is no different than any of the other manufacturer's of those, and twice the price.




a full decked out 1911 XSE will cost under 900 bucks from a  good dealer. now how is that "twice as much"

some of you guys  are talking out of your uninformed asses
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:06:06 PM EDT
[#45]
IMHO, it's down to poor management, product definition, and drive. Probably due to large contracts from .gov that meant they felt the consumer side could just go fuck itself. Failed to deliver larger capacity firearms, didn't move to polymer where it made sense... etc. etc. Didn't capitalize on the CHL growth years.



But I'm sure management still get paid nicely, and the employees will inevitably get the blame (union or otherwise).



Not surprising though as the entire firearms industry has about as much marketing savvy, whole-product concept, product planning, and channel sales skills, as a 9 year old running a lemonade stand.


(Maybe excepting Magpul). Perhaps I am wrong but it seems that management in such a small industry just play musical chairs with SHOT being a "who are you working for this year?" convention.



There's simply nothing that interests me from Colt.



I used to have a Gold Cup National Match (before the UK govt stole it at implied gunpoint) and it's the only firearm I had, that I haven't replaced here in the USA. Although I do have a case of ammunition for 45 just in case.



Masturbatory check-list charts about staked gas keys, along with "I have a Colt, therefore I am Tier 1" mental gymnastics, just don't do it for me on the AR front. So I guess I'm another lost customer.




Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:06:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here please let me be the first.................Look for the Union Label.


UAW to be precise.


Yup.

Can we see a pattern in what the UAW does to companies yet?


The UAW accounts for some of the manufacturing workforce.  They in no way, shape or form control the company.


But they have enough power to move labor costs above market rates, thus increase product cost, while protecting less that adequate workers who will continue to do substandard work.

The UAW didn't control GM before the bailout, but they damm sure did have a huge impact on the company.


And none of that applies to Colt products.

They make the AR15s that all others are judged by.  The 6920 is the industry standard for a 16" M4 type carbine.  The pricing is in the same ballpark with comparable products.  Comparable products = complete rifles with the same material quality and testing standards.  Not parts guns, not hobby guns.  

Please tell me where I am wrong on this.  

Please tell me another company that puts out AR15s to that standard, at that price and in that volume that also sells to the public.  I'll save you some trouble - they don't exist.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:07:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Well, when almost as good as a Colt isn't good enough, theres always the Colt.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:08:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Mismanagement coupled with unions.

Ten years ago I really thought Colt was about done. When the 1991 NRM came out at the price it did I really thought they were setting themselves up for a major comeback in the 1911 market after some of the stuff they'd put out in the 90s. I do think they stumbled in not marketing their AR's, namely the 6920 and 6520, harder after the ban sunset.

They have come up with a few items that cater to the market better lately, namely with the new Rail Gun and Delta Elite, and Agent - but they could be doing a lot more. How they'll proceed as the war winds down will be interesting. They'd do well to take a page from Ruger's recent play book.

ETA: My opinion of them will go up greatly when they do another M1911A1 repro.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:09:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
......and I am totally wrong.


Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:11:34 PM EDT
[#50]





Quoted:





Quoted:


I'd like to buy a 1911 or Peacemaker from them just so I have the 'real deal', but what they make is no different than any of the other manufacturer's of those, and twice the price.

a full decked out 1911 XSE will cost under 900 bucks from a  good dealer. now how is that "twice as much"





some of you guys  are talking out of your uninformed asses



$429.99 for a Peacemaker from Uberti, $1,259.99 for the equivalent model from Colt.





http://www.impactguns.com/store/037084440507.html


http://www.impactguns.com/store/098289045614.html





Its harder to find an exact match with 1911s but Springfields start in the mid $500s while Colts start in the mid $800s...



'Twice as much' is a pretty good average.





 
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