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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 9/19/2001 8:39:57 AM EST
If the SHTF we own 75 heavily wooded acres. We have a 2 acre pond there. What would be the best way to purify large amounts of this water for drinking? What type of equipment is available for this scale of water purification?
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 9:09:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 9:11:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 9:11:58 AM EST
Add a few drops of tincture iodine to 1 gallon, then boil for added safety. The iodine will work fine on it's own though, as it will kill everything... Iodine is not the tastiest stuff though, so that's where Kool-Aid or Tang come into play.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 9:13:25 AM EST
I have very good water filters, but don't waste my time with them anymore, because they are so slow and clog easily... Iodine is fast and simple!
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 9:31:49 AM EST
Katadyn makes a large 5gal(believe) drip filter for around $300. Major surplus used to carry them. I have read several articles where these were used by missionaries in third world countries with great success. The only drawback in the initial high cost and the flow of purified water is slow, ie "drip".
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 9:40:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2002 11:47:29 PM EST by david_r]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 9:50:59 AM EST
Consider a Reverse Osmosis system. These units while somewhat costly are superior to other forms of filtration. There are maintenance issues involved and you would need to store some filters,etc. for it. Not as convenient as Iodine but tastes better.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 10:08:47 AM EST
What do you consider a large amount? Reverse osmosis works great for salt water but it's really expensive to replace the membrane. Also, if there is much risk of pesticide, herbicide or other runnoff into your pond, you should look at other methods. Many chemicals will pass right through the membrane. Iodine treatment works good but won't kill Cryptosporidia. Filtering and boiling are the only ways to get rid of that. Distillation requires a lot of energy and any chemicals with a boiling point below that of water will still be there. You're best bet is to buy one of the filter systems like this one [url]http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=8000&prrfnbr=5384638[/url] It will cover all the bases.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 10:21:08 AM EST
Are there addition ABC concerns? Most backpack filters handle A. BC are based on molecule size, and particles under .2/.3 micron will get through.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 11:40:52 AM EST
[url]http://www.pure-pro.com/ro103tds.htm[/url] Take a look at this or similar units. They have a charcoal filter as well to absorb what small amount of chemical,pesticide that may remain after going through the membrane. 70 gallons per day volume as well. Of course you would need a suitable storage container to hold the water before entering the filter unit.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 8:00:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2001 8:06:56 PM EST by WSmac]
The best methods are distillation and boiling. This is in regards to contaminates other than chemical and nuclear. To kill viruses, bacteria and protozoa, boiling will do the trick. Boil water for up to three minutes. Any more is wasting fuel and time. The old line about boiling for ten or twenty minutes is no longer valid, no matter your elevation. Check out these sites for solar distillation. [url]www.delphiatoracle.com[/url] [url]www.fsec.ucf.edu/Pubs/EnergyNotes[/url] go to EN-3.HTM [url]www.epsea.org[/url]
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 9:44:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 11:08:00 AM EST
I'm pretty sure that the boil for 10-20 minutes standard is to destroy bacterial toxins, esp. Botulism. There may be more to it though. FWIW, I live on a lake, have a pump and a hand pump in the front yard. Plenty of woods and game. I think I'm pretty well set.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 11:10:51 AM EST
One more thing. Don't drink distilled water. You have to add some salts to it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 11:32:29 AM EST
Seen both the Katadyn units, like a bike pump, and a big metal coffee urn looking thing (labled Berkefeld I believe, might be German) in use in Africa. Both had ceramic filters, would do quite a bit of water per day and not sure how many total gallons they would filter. No one got sick so I figure they work. Stick to bottled water when you can. Prior to filtering, they'd run the water through what appeared to be cheesecloth, as a prefilter. Ive used coffee filters on my PUR hiker as a prefilter, so I know those work. Make sure if its cloudy (I do regardless) to prefilter. Once these things get clogged, its a pain to backwash, some dont have the capability. Filtered waster tastes flat. Even If you dont use Iodine, lay in some Gookinade or Gatorade as antiUSSA says. I always drink better when it tastes good. If anyone is/has been or knows a PH or missionary in Africa, be great if they could give some feedback. Lots of nasty crap endemic there so I bet they'd have some practical insight. Large scale purifaction is a whole new ballgame here. Anyone from RSA? Lotta stuff that looks great in the outdoors store works like crap in the field. Luck Alac
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 12:12:29 PM EST
Chlorine Bleach ( hyprochlorates )is the best for large amounts and the cheapest if you don't mind the taste. If you go to the library and find a book on Water System Operations it will tell you how much to add per gallon of water for safe drinking.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 12:14:57 PM EST
Humans drank from ponds for millions of years, think of all those little nasties as protien you won't have to work for....
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 12:24:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 12:45:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 1:49:42 PM EST
Crypto and Giardia are virtually everywhere these days. Beavers are little bacteria factories and breed this stuff just so you can slurp it up next time you think about drinking straight from that stream or pond. there is this new fangled sport called backpacking, guys. there is technology to filter this stuff all the way to virus level. read up on what those chems do to your organs if you plan on using them in quantity. i can't carry enough fuel to boil GALLONS of water every time i need to drink or cook. how is needing tons of fuel just to clean your water gonna help you survive anything?? scott out
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 2:04:59 PM EST
Have drunk water out of fast moving streams myself a few times and can say it tastes great. It is not what I'd rec, however, and it is just a matter of time before you get sick doing so. Keep it to a minimum. your stomach acid and digestive enzymes can keep things in check somewhat. Remember, that you need a minimum infecting dose of most bacteria, virus, etc. The white water off the rocks is being aerated and this helps. Nothing miraculous about the rocks, though. Consider drinking all that nice clear, cool water and going around the bend upstream to find a dead, decaying moose, etc. I know people who've had exactly that happen. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 3:35:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2001 3:36:45 PM EST by DaMan]
I think a British Berkefeld might be what you need. If the water is muddy or has a lot of algae, use coffee filters to "pre-filter" your water . This will keep your filters from clogging up so fast. [url]http://www.britishberkefeld.com[/url] DaMan PS - Alacrity's "cheese clothe pre-filter is a good idea for really scummy or dirty water.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 4:35:01 PM EST
the current backpacking filters HAVE prefilters also. methinks i need to post a slew of links to these products before anyone believes in this decades old technology. heh heh. scott out
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 4:58:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By ar15bubba: What would be the best way to purify LARGE AMOUNTS of this water for drinking?
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Scott, please post your links for those gizmos with "pre-filters" and high capacity! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 1:18:11 AM EST
Hmm BRITISHBerkefeld...Ok so they arent German. TY Daman, wife swore it was Birkefeild. Most of the personal water filters Ive seen are good for less than a gallon a minute. We had 22-24 people in camp, quite a few more some days. Someones arm would have fallen off. Think Bubba's gonna need of those big old things. My experience with the foam prefilters found on the PUR models is they suck. Extrapolating they all suck. I still cover my "prefilter" with a coffee filter and rubber band it. Actually use those hair things as they stand up better. Im in the woods in Eastern US or Canada so it seems im either getting water from a spigot (good) or pulling it out of slightly turbid bodies (not so good). Havnt had to resort to really turbid (bad) or stagnant (ugh) yet, so I cant comment on tough stuff. I have seen folks clog their filters in water that didnt look that bad. (Then again who knows how "used" those filters were.) Get as much of the muck out of the water before you filter. Increases filter life and limits clogging. Problem is if you are filtering nasty water you probably REALLY need it. Great time to find out the limits of your gear. Ive seen it published that the chances of any type of trouble from drinking unpurified water in North America is extremely slim. Im with DRjarhead, et al. So if your in trouble, and need water, drink, purified or not. But nothing worse than shitting yourself for miles as your hoping the Imodium kicks in. Bad enough at home- well think about finite toilet paper and having to walk 10-15 miles a day. I dont want beaver fever or worse, parasitic infections. no worms plz. Heard horror stories while in Africa, 'course the gents may have been overstating things for effect - but I dont want worms. So I purify. This has taken a decidely backpacker-ish slant. But I guess thats when we all have experience without tap water. Bubba, do you have a well? If so what about a hand pump? We have a farm that has a hand pump, use it when Im there to wash up the dogs, my boots, no outside hose bib. Not sure how its connected to the well but think it would sure beat the pond. Luck Alac
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 4:27:47 AM EST
The Berkfeld is fantastic, and once it get's primed, it filters pretty fast. I agree with the "pre-filter" advice.
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