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Posted: 1/15/2002 2:36:47 AM EST
ok have had a few in the past and sold my last 2 corvettes the summer before last and look to get at least 1 but maybe 2 cars this spring or early summer. here's my list of wants in the order of what I would like but after the first few they don't really matter. will put a pound sign up for one's that I have owned in the past. plan on spending between the low $20,000 to the high $20,000 range so I may actually get 2 cars unless a very nice rarer one comes along. do not really plan on buying any fixer uppers as they could be just good solid cars but here goes and any comments pro's or con's would be a great help. here's what each and the range I think I might get one for. #1 67 tiger mark 2 $15 - $20 #2 regular tiger $10 to $18(#) #3 big block corvette 68-71 $12-$20 (#) #4 big block mustang 67-70 $8-$20 (#) #5 ferrari 308 either a gtb or gts $22-$30 (#) #6 big block amx 68-69 $10-$18 #7 big block camero 67-69 $10-$16 #8 pantera $20-$30 #9 440 mopar car 67-70 $12-$20 all of the above some are to be considered but prefer to get a couple but would not pass up a rarer or good retored car that the price is right. but thinking that If I bide my time I might getsome good deals and end up with two. have seen some great big block mustangs and vettes in the low teens once in a while. so what I'am hoping for is a tiger and also get a big block car of some type. I have owned the shelby's and ferrari's but price of car or price of getting it worked on does not really appeal to me much more. any comments or suggestions. jon
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 2:42:13 AM EST
My Opinion?? 71 Hemi 'Cuda convertible (only 9 produced) But of course a numbers matching factory original will run you well over $100k! MoPar, or NO car!
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 2:51:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ruckus: My Opinion?? 71 Hemi 'Cuda convertible (only 9 produced) But of course a numbers matching factory original will run you well over $100k! MoPar, or NO car!
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You won't find anyone to sell you one, and if you did it would be well over $200K! More like, a 1970 440 6-Pack `Cuda. Could be had in the $20k's if you shop around a lot. I used to have one and sold it like an idiot for $8K back in the mid 1980's.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 3:14:22 AM EST
yes a hemi would be nice and I have never owned one but while I had my 68 428cj mustang right after high school a good friend had a hemi roadrunner and that was one bad car. the 440 I truely like and have always thought even if I have never owned one they would be at the top of my list. everytime we go look at one my wife say's that reminds me of high school and the purple color does nothing for her. she must of had a few bad experiences in the back of some (lol)but I like them alot and that 67 cuda with the 440 man I love that car. brother had a big block challenger and it was pretty neat but I was into fords back then. I remember a few years back she would never drive any vette I owned and she saw a nice cheap 76 and red is her color and I bought it for her and now all she wants is another vette but with her she is stuck on the mid 70's cars so thats a big ok with me as I will still get my toys and get her another low end vette. I took her a few months ago to look at a few 70's ferrari's and all she said was it looks ok I guess. I then asked her does that mean you would not drive it and her comment was if I really had to. (please) she could not wait to get home to tell me how many guys hit on her while driving the red vette if she started driving a red ferrari I would never get it back. but I hate those down payment size tune-ups
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 4:21:04 AM EST
1. 1970 LS-6 Chevelle or 2. 1969 Z11 Camaro
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 4:41:43 AM EST
1st choice: 1968 Dodge Charger R/T 440-6 engine is a lower maintenance machine than a Hemi, and has nearly the same performance. 2nd choice: 1969-70 Dodge Charger R/T I like the taillights on the '68 better. 3rd choice: 1970 Dodge Challenger T/A Go for a tricked out 340 on this one. Saves weight.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 4:47:13 AM EST
Late '60 early '70 mustangs w/ 428 or 429 rock. Don't forget the same era Camaros and Firebirds. Best of luck! I sure miss my '66 mustang...
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 4:55:15 AM EST
I have gettin a hankerin for a Tiger for about a year now. I would go with the Tiger. They show up on Ebay every now and again. Just seems like a neat idea. Very small car with a fairly large American engine.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 4:58:35 AM EST
Up until last weekend, I would have suggested any old Mopar, esp. A-bodies, but after DAIMLERChrysler's anti-gun TV ad for their Jeep Wrangler, somehow, I seem to have lost all interest in Mopar... And to think- I used to be a member of the Slant Six Club of America.....[:(]
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 5:21:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By 95thFoot: Up until last weekend, I would have suggested any old Mopar, esp. A-bodies, but after DAIMLERChrysler's anti-gun TV ad for their Jeep Wrangler, somehow, I seem to have lost all interest in Mopar... And to think- I used to be a member of the Slant Six Club of America.....[:(]
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I consider 1960's Dodges to be a totally different company from DC today. Companies do that. They go through changes, add products, drop products, get bought out, change management, and everything else. Today Ford execs are saying a lot of controversial things about environmentalism, but that doesn't spoil my view of our 1976 Bronco. Even Chevy is airing a ridiculous commercial about the Impala. "I'm glad they brought the Impala back." Gag. "Did your father's Impala have smoked headlight lenses, a 200 hp V6, or 16 inch wheels?" Barf. My fathers Impala had a 500 hp 454 V8, but I am not going to stop being a '69 Camaro Z28 fan because of a dumb commercial.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 5:21:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By jc121: here's my list of wants in the order of what I would like but after the first few they don't really matter. #1 67 tiger mark 2 $15 - $20 #2 regular tiger $10 to $18(#)
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Tigers are one SUDDEN car. Somewhere down there on the floor is the automatic reverse button. Can't tell you where exactly but you'll know when you found it when the front and rear ends change positions at an alarming rate. Doesn't seem to be much modulation to the effect either. Somewhat like a 911 cornering out around .7g+ going brakes hot. Another automatic reverse button. Not much time to do catch-and-save.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 5:38:40 AM EST
I wanna know where you're gonna find a 67-69 BIG BLOCK Camaro for $10-$16. The ONLY factory original one I've seen was an ugly green color, had none of the creature comfort options and had a price tag in the $40's. Clue me in man, if you know where to find an original for that much, hell I may buy one. I love the 69-71 Chevelle SS 454. Also, if you like em, the 69-71 El Camino SS 454 is a sweet ride. Shamino's aren't for everyone though. Just bite the bullet and get a '63 Corvette with the split-window, I'll guarantee you'll be the only guy in town that has one. You know why they only made the split window one year don't you? Some safety tech at Chevy said it limited the view through the back glass and insisted that it be changed to a full glass. If he only knew what a collectible he created. Have fun at the gas pumps bro.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 6:30:54 AM EST
Go for the Camaro man. You can't go wrong with any one of them from those years that is still in decent shape. In other words, don't limit yourself to a big block car. BBURN
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:03:25 AM EST
If fixing them doesn't appeal to you then you might as well mark off the Tigers and Ferrari. My knee jerk reaction would be to get the 308 as a collector. Their values have been on the increase over the past few years. Tigers are nice but in the end it's a "kit" car. Also they are fire prone. IF you want something you can enjoy without much trouble, that will hold its value and give you pleasure to drive get an 84 or above 911. And for 'shits and giggles' on a warm Summer night you can't beat a pre-74 big block Stingray convertible.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:12:47 AM EST
Just don't expect to walk into the local Autozone or equivalent in your area and expect to pick up parts. It's getting hard enough to just find the right size and thread of a nut for a car much less an important part for a classic car.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:10:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4A3: 1. 1970 LS-6 Chevelle
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ohmigod, this car excites me! i wanna make a sleeper outta one so bad. especially when i drive up to the walmart parking lot late on a saturday night and see a bunch of rice-burners with their squirrel-farting exhaust add-ons. just once i wanna rev the engine as i go buy. of course, i could just run over them now with my suburban, but there's no fun in that. but back to the question: there's one important piece of information that you left out. do you want the work all done for you or do you plan to work this new baby up yourself. if it's the former, then just get whatever you want, being aware that your initial price tag may not cover diddly squat (like i've seen chevelles run as high a $40K). if you wanna do some of the work (and that's the fun part anyway) then get the camaro (or the chevelle). in addition i would suggest putting in a 350; there's no engine in the world with more "gettable" parts than the 350. of course, i'm partial to the bowtie too i guess.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:19:09 AM EST
I hear ya ARlady, I'm 18 and get sick and tired of the "compact super cars". These pricks have mommy and daddy spend $40,000+ on their little nissans and toyotas. Give me $10,000 and I can put a car together that will outrun 90% of the rice burners around here. I will always be a fan of real Detroit muscle cars. They can have their OHC V6's and 4 Cyl's. Give me a big block and I'm happy.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:50:49 AM EST
What? No Cobras? [img]www.thecarsource.com/shelby/cobra/images/char_2cobras2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:56:46 AM EST
The [b]GTO[/b] Tiger! [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/BusMaster007%2F64%2520GTO%2Ejpg[/img] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/BusMaster007%2Fa%2520Tiger%5Fcomes%2Egif[/img] I had a '64 Tri-Power 4-spd. POSI... HANG ON!!! Gettin' SIDEWAYS!!!
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:59:38 AM EST
Get a Buick T-Type or even better, Grand National. It will spank most of the cars mentioned above in a drag race and with $1,000 in hop-up parts nothing will be able to touch it (within reason). Great cars... and look at the 86-87 GN's.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 9:29:14 AM EST
well I did forget about the chevelle 70 ls-6 and the ls-5's not a bad ride either and have looked at some over the years. and as far as prices go the one's listed are the prices that I have seen in the last year granted a $16,000 dollar 396/375 ss camero with frame off can run into the 40's just like good ls-6 chevelle can but a solid running and not a rust bucket car can be had for a great price. if you look at hemmings, old car trader and most internet sites the prices are high aren't they. last summer when my funds were in other things I found a couple of chevy's for a good price one was a frame on resoration 68 427/390 vette for $18,500 and a good street one in a 69 conv. with original 427 for $12,500 plus a 396 ss camero for $9,900 that was a solid car. supprizingly here in colorado there are quite a few nice cars around and believe me I no I'am not going to get a copo for 10 grand. last year also passed up on two ford products a 428cj cougar for $15,000 and a nice 67 s code 390 fastback mustang for $8,000 but the one that had me watering was a 66 tiger for $11,500 that was from the ad low miles all original in great shape and I saw the ad that night and called and he said it was gone by noon that mourning of the ad dang. as far as the tigers and 308's I have had both and did have electrical problems with the sunbeam typical british car and also the rack and pinion gave me fits also, but what a ass-kicking little monster as we called them the poor mans cobra. never had a problem on the 308gtB but sold mine before the 30,000 tune up was due as I did not feel like spending a small fortune on a tune up but remember if that engine goes you are going to be paying out some bucks. having said that there is probily no other car that I have had the privlage to drive that I enjoyed more than that ferrari. just opening the garage door and looking at that prancing horse still gives me goose bumbs. far from the most powerfull car I have ever owned but the power is so smooth and that sound. had a split window when the going price for a nice one was still under $20,000 but as I see now they are way to much for me right now. If I just wanted 1 car it most likely would be the 308 or pantera and get a nice low milage one for close to 30 but kinda holding out for at least one big block and maybe the tiger. can I work on them bought a pretty cherry 77 vette the winter before last with a new paint job and finished it with about another $1,500 but only paid 7,000 for it and sold it for $12,500. was working on my wife's getting it ready for paint and she backed out of the garage and wrapped the door around to the fender (yeah wind caught it) getting more toward retirment so this might be my last chance to get something and I can live with say a nice 69 427 vette and a 390 mustang or a tiger and a camero. but I'am open to it for I will wait untill a deal comes around thats to good to pass up.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 9:37:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By William_Gunn: Get a Buick T-Type or even better, Grand National. It will spank most of the cars mentioned above in a drag race and with $1,000 in hop-up parts nothing will be able to touch it (within reason). Great cars... and look at the 86-87 GN's.
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Are you sure? Most of the aforementioned cars will run in the 11-12's bone stock. Especially the 68-71 models. $1000 in aftermarket on any of these cars will be a big improvement. Grand Nationals are cool to be sure, but against a Hemi Charger R/T or Chevelle SS 454? I don't think that it could win.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 9:43:48 AM EST
well in the early 70's worked on cobra's and shelby's. I have had 2 67 gt500's, 1 68 gt500 and a 68 gt500 kr but worked for a man named gordon gimble at cobra performance in south sacramento after I stopped working for wilson's ford then went to work for uncle sam. man was that really 25 years ago. was always into drag racing big block fords back then but after I started working on those things I was sold on road courses nothing like going around sears point in a real fia cobra even if it was in the co-pilots seat. thought about the kit cars but would love to have one but just do not think paying $30,000 for a low end one is going to go up in value. and I kinda want the real thing that's why I will settle for some of the others. but truth be told if I ever hit the lotto a 66 427 cobra is the first car on my list bar none.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:02:04 AM EST
street raced a 70 ls-6 cheville back in 71 with a 67 fastback mustang that was cooking with a tunnel port high rise 427 with top loader and locker in the rear. trust me it was quick. low 12's in street tires . raced him out in the boonies 3 times and he was right there every time. I do remember that chevelle as it did impress me that night all 3 runs he got me out of the hole as most cars did but mid way that mustang was a monster and he was catching up by the time we crossed the last telephone poll. I was beat some times but did win my share. sold that car with a brand new 427 in it never turned the key. sold off the high riser heads and intake and had two holman and moody intakes off a gt40 sold one guy one with webers for his cobra and had put the other intake on that new motor with the brand new tecate fuel injecton set up off a mk5 gt40. was told that I would have problems with it but never did start it. sold that car for $2,000 cash in 1980 (ouch)
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:48:54 AM EST
How about an Edsel ?
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:11:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:17:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:26:41 PM EST
I have a confession to make. I traded a 1969 Z-28 Camaro (302 V8, Edelbrok hi-riser, Hurst shifter, ...) in for a Vega in 1974. Sure wish I had it back. Just had the engine rebuilt and was giving me minor problems and got tired of it. That Vega drove me to a long run of Datsun Z-cars. Four of them in all, starting in 1976.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:30:09 PM EST
Get something original and a "real" muscle car. 1970 Buick Skylark GS 455 Stage one Ramair convertible. Might cost you $18-$22, but what a ride! In a pinch you could get yourself a GSX, but they only came in hard top. Most torque and best brakes on any muscle car, not to mention classy. Stage one heads, the best. I saw alot of chevelles in my rear view mirror when I owned one way back in the day. '79 or '80 I think.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 1:00:17 PM EST
For all you Mopar fanatics, In 1976, I used to have a 6-pack manifold and carbs for a 440. The manifold was new but the carbs were used. I was moving out of an apartment when I hauled these things out of the closet. I didn't want to take them with me so I sold them to a friend, who was helping me move, for $20. I was glad they were gone then, but wish I had them back now. Fred
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 1:17:57 PM EST
'69 Mustang Mach 1 w/ 428 Super Cobra Jet & 4 speed. Or a '68 Mustang Shelby GT-500.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 1:51:23 PM EST
The big-block stump pullers are impressive, but I think a nice original '69 SS 350 Chevelle would be hard to beat. Or a '69 or thereabouts Mustang GT with a 351 Cleveland. I had a '68 Torino GT (notchback) with a lowly 390 and a 4-speed back in those days, and I sure wish I could find another like it...or with a 428! [devil]
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 1:57:41 PM EST
I would go with the AMX Javelin or one of the less common ones. Camaros and vet, etc are everywhere and most people wouldn't know if it had options that make it rare or not. It would be "just another Chevy" to most people. But an AMX on the other hand, you'd drive by and people would say "What the heck is it?"
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 2:46:54 PM EST
If you decide to go the Ferrari route I can say go with a early 76 thru 79 carbureted car or go with a 84 and up its tempting to buy a 2 valve injected car but they were down on power and also oil users. My choice would be a 84 4 valve car, nice horsepower and a really good driver. This is from my personal experiance I have been working on Ferrari's for the last 20 years.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 2:55:12 PM EST
I'm curious.What does a Ferrari tune-up go for.I just started looking into buying a 328 GTS and now you guys have me wondering if I could swing it.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 3:26:30 PM EST
jc121: If you want something unique, see if you can find a deal on a '69 or '70 Boss 429 Mustang... they didn't make a lot of them and they are a whole lot of neat. I remember seeing one way back when at a Ford dealership that could've been had for the price of the mechanic's lien... $900 [>Q] If you want something faster, look for an original '68 428 Cobra Jet Mustang... I had one teach me a lesson back in the early '70s in my Boss 302 (which I still have, btw). That 428 was Gawdawful fast... I'll never forget it: he pulled up along side me, smiled, waved bye-bye and was GONE. How's this for a "kit car??" [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pc8a944f0fd7f3521d38fa0d36f69a7b7/fdff07e7.gif[/img] FITTER out
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 3:28:24 PM EST
ask alfajim as he should be able to get you the lastest going prices on a minor or major tuneup both are not cheap. if you are looking at alot of cars I go by certain criteria and it is a BIG rule when looking at a ferrari as I did look at one a few weeks ago and it failed most of them . on the surface the car looked ok and knowing what it was you just had to stop looking at the emblem and really look at the car. as everything you have done on that car is going to cost alot. if you find a say $20,000 308 and they are out there you need to really study what that car will need because if you need to put 10 or 12 grand into it to get back to were it should be you still will have a big value killer the milage. this is what I look at and can live with certain one's but always pass on the last two. #1 paint and body that a few nicks or scratches I can live with but whatout for rust, bubbles, chips and fading because this is not a car to take to a cheap paint shop. #2 interior: even to do the seats right you are looking at thousands and with a bad dash or missing and broken interior parts if is going to be very expensive to put a new interior in one. #3 missing parts or broken parts on a car like this why would someone not replace the bumper or that mirror or the turn signal cover that show to me neglect. I can live with a few of the above to small degrees but they will have to be minor and show the wear as a 25 or 35 thousand mile car should be. #4 milage I would never touch a 308 over 40,000 miles as with alot of cars the magic # might be 100,000 but my opinion this cars after 40,000 really start dropping and after 50 no way so I would like to stay under 40 so I can put that extra 10 tousnad miles on it myself. #5 this is the big one for me service record. I would never buy one with out a complete service record I not only will walk away I will run away from one with out a service record. had a good friend years back bought a butiful 246 and 800 miles later the belt's went away and the engine was like buying a new car at the time.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 3:40:22 PM EST
You would be hard pressed to find a 68 1/2 cobra jet Mustang for a decent price. Might have better luck finding a 69 though price will still be high. Boss 429 is out of the question price wise. Boss 302 or my favorite, 351 might be possible. If I was going to buy an older ford I would love to get a 429SCJ Cyclone Spoiler. Turbo charged GN Buicks are fast(hurts to say that, me being a Ford man)and would take one in a race against a 60s era muscle car. Thing about old muscle cars is the engines put out so much bottom end torque that they couldnt hook up worth a damn. That GN would hole shot you so bad out of the gate. My bads. Sold a 69 cobrajet for $1200 in 81 and a 70 cobrajet for $2400 in 84. In 82 could have bought one of the original 68 1/2 cobra jet drag cars(ie: georgia shaker) that Ford gave their top racers for $4500 including trailer, extra trans and motor. Course at the time I was making $5.25/hr so was most definitely out of my range.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 3:42:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2002 3:45:03 PM EST by alfajim]
Originally Posted By GregL: I'm curious.What does a Ferrari tune-up go for.I just started looking into buying a 328 GTS and now you guys have me wondering if I could swing it.
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The later fuel injected cars are not nearly as bad as the early cars. A set of plugs and an air filter and its there. Valve adjusts and belt changes are more like are more like $1000 to $1500 it just depends what the car needs and where you live ( labor rates vary ).Remember when buying a Ferrari DO NOT BUY A FIXER UPPER. Buy the best one you can find.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 3:50:38 PM EST
nice kit car. the first car I had out of high school was a 69 1/2 428cj fast back gt mustang. that car was rated the fastest production mustang even over the 429 bosses and later year cj's. back in 71 I was looking for a small block 65 or 66 gt but my dad said lets go look at this one in the paper. the lady was selling it as a suprize for her husband as he was coming home in a few weeks from nam so she wanted to get him a new car. talked to him about 8 years later and he was still pissed off about it. my dad and me took it for a test drive he got on the freeway ramp on nailed it. he used to race and when he put it into forth gear and looked at the speedo shortly after it was buried at 120. talk about him being shocked and that was a quick 120 from a rolling second gear getting on the freeway. the car was only rated at 335 horse and I do believe that was a out and out lie. the car was white with a black stripe down the hood and gt side stripes, 4spd large slpine top loader, 391 gears in it with a torque loc limited slip pumkin, single 735 cfm holly with that ram air . it was not a shaker like the 69 and 70 cars and this had a fixed hood scope and the vacuum actuvated lid was on the air cleaner. you are right wickedly fast. even when it was stock I used to like to get a rolling start then punch it and back off to get the nose to dive a little and then stand on it that front end would come right off the ground. but the last two years the amx 390 cars with the go pack have been a want for me. I go to the good guys car show here and there are two that go every year and I just can't take my eye's off them. they look like they are doing 100mph sitting there and that red,white and blue color on the one very nice. thats why its up their on my list. but willwait and see what comes up.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 4:08:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 6:46:58 PM EST
As you can see from my handle, I lean toward the Mustangs. I've owned 4 and will get another one someday. Your list is pretty inclusive and I'd take any of the ones you mentioned. A Boss of any year/displacement would be nice. My 2 cents
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 6:49:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:03:58 PM EST
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Hunduh%2FDSC00231%2EJPG[/img] Not that Im trying to convince you to buy another Mustang, but BUY ANOTHER MUSTANG!!!! I Love my Baby, and damn is she quick!!!!
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:07:03 PM EST
I've always been a big fan of the Chevelles. You cannot go wrong with an LS-6, but you will pay for it.... [img]http://home.earthlink.net/~bzdel/70chvlst.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:18:08 PM EST
Hemi Dart
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 7:53:50 PM EST
[img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Boomholzer/torino1.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Boomholzer/torino2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:05:23 PM EST
WTH, nobody's mentioned the SAAB Sonnett yet?
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:18:40 PM EST
I would go with an early to mid-70s Pontiac F-body. Performance and handling--for the time period anyway.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 8:41:11 PM EST
Did I understand someone to say get a Grand National? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a 6 banger? That's a car best left hanging out in the rice-burner part of the parking lot. With the squirrel farting Nissans and and Toyotas I believe it was put. Be a V8 or above, or keep the noise down. Midas muffler's are for kiddy cars. (IE) Anything less than 8 cylinders!!! But hey those 8's gotta have something to eat![newbie]
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:26:25 PM EST
Yeah! The Saab Sonnett! Hell of a car. Imagine all the money Saab lost when the introduced that V4 with a lifetime service guarantee! Wish I had one now.
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