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Posted: 9/24/2004 12:52:43 AM EST
There has never existed a country called palestine never not once isreal as is today was said to be stolen from who? it was controlled by european countries before wwII given to the jews after wwII
so who controlled isreal before than
well lets see controlled by the Romans' than the Byzantine Empire(also known as the easern empire)
than captured by the caliph of egypt it was invaded in the 12th century by frankish knights,knights from the Holy roman empire,and soldiers from the Byzantine empire after these invasions it was taken by the seljuk turks and became apart of the ottoman empire which collapsed after wwI so at not one point has that land been called palestine these people have been bull shited into thinking they are some kind of nationallity the are the descendants of the seljuk turks who invaded the holy lands thats it they arent palestinians no group ever existed they have as much right to that land today as say France or germany because they controlled ooo 900 years ago. who feeds this people there bull shit they certainly have delusions of grandeur.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:41:27 AM EST
wow all views no replies
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:06:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 2:07:22 AM EST by Voldermortist]
DEATH TO THE SAND GERMS!!!!!!!!


EDITED: oh yeah forgot, can I have a cookie? chocolate chip?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:22:22 AM EST
Um, I'm not overly familiar with its past, but I do recall that these people used to be known as the Philistines. At one time there was a Philistine "empire." (I use the term loosely because I don't think it was all that large.) Though I've no idea how long ago that was, I'm fairly certain that it was well before any European nation took it.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:25:59 AM EST
the philistine empire predated the roman empire the palestinians are descended from muslim invaders coming east out of turkey and the steppes of asia they are not nor has their ever been a country called palestine there was a region i believe but it was never its on seperate country so they really arent palestinians they are just invaders like every other group for the past 2000 years
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:31:45 AM EST
Well, you are probably right, but that's the mantra I get from them.
"We are descended from Philistinians, therfore it's our land."

Like I said, I don't know enough about it to argue with them.
I do know that countries belong to those strong enough to hold it. They weren't. So they should quit their damn whining about it now.

You don't see the American Indians strapping bombs to themselves and demanding we give back their land do you?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:41:28 AM EST
its all about the dome of the rock, ehud barack offered them sovriegnty and autonomy at Wye river a few years ago and they refused it. they dont really want their own country. that is just the party line to justify their war. what they really want it the old city. see the "dome of the rock" is one of islams holiest sites. well that happens to be the same hill that the jews believe will bring the messiah IF they build another temple upon it. so you see, in order for the jews to fulfill their destiny they must bulldoze one of islams holiest shrines. see the problem?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:45:44 AM EST
Didn't David ( a Jew) slay Goliath (a Philistinian) with the jaw bone of an ass ass bone of a Jew?

Andy
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:47:32 AM EST
Rand . . . you made a rather incoherent statement which has little to back it up (most people don't know enough about the history of the area to contest or agree). While it is easy to agree that the state of Palestine never existed it is much more difficult to make a blanket statement saying that they should stop whinging and roll over.

Never had a nation? So what? They lived there.

Israel made a massive error in judgement by their treatment of the Paleos since they established Israel as a nation. By forcing the Paleos to remain displaced they have made the descendants of the original inhabitants into the new Jews.

A displaced people who have a strong belief that they deserve to possess the area in which Israel now exists.

There is a part of me which says that we should leave them to figure out how to get out of the hole that they dug for themselves. But I don't think we should abandon our allies. Abandoning them would destroy any influence we have with them, leaving open many possibilities which are far more disturbing than helping them in their national defense.

The Paleos are a distugsting lot. Their use of suicide bombers is sick . . . especially as they have used them to strike at the innocent and used the innocent to do the striking. But they were living there when the Jews showed back up and said they wanted to assume ownership again.

What will you do when the American Indians come back and tell you they want the great plains back?



Rand, if you want to get better response, you will need to actually use punctuation and not ramble quite so much (look whose talking!!). I think that most people looked at your post and said . . . okay . . . and went on with life.

If you are looking for discussion you added too much in the way of facts to be researched and if you were trolling for an argument you are not in an intellectual enough environment to have the history argument that you are after.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:47:41 AM EST
no i dont see a problem with it they lost bulldoze the damn thing these muslim shrines need to go along with the muslim terrorist the palestinians have no claims to isreal they arent descended from the philistines they are just a pack of wandering usurpers and murders
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 3:23:07 AM EST
I think I am descended from phil_a_steens
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 3:30:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
...

Never had a nation? So what? They lived there.

Israel made a massive error in judgement by their treatment of the Paleos since they established Israel as a nation. By forcing the Paleos to remain displaced they have made the descendants of the original inhabitants into the new Jews.
...



The 1947 UN Partition act would have divided up the country equally. Heck, the lands they claim they want NOW are smaller than what they would have had THEN. It has never been about land - it has always been about the refusal of the Arab world to allow Israel to exist.

Israel has learned this time and time again - they try to offer concessions in good faith, and more terrorism occurs - as the Palestinians leaders think this is a sign of weakness.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 3:42:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:06:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 4:08:29 AM EST by RodeoFan]

Originally Posted By vito113:
Didn't David ( a Jew) slay Goliath (a Philistinian) with the jaw bone of an ass ass bone of a Jew?

Andy



No. David slew goliath with a stone from his sling.

It was Samson who killed "heaps upon heaps" of Philistines with the jawbone of an ass. Ironically (in the context of this thread), it was citizens of Judah (i.e., Jews) who bound and delivered Samson to the Philistines before he tore the Philistines a new one. Why? Because Samson has stirred up a ruckus with the Philistines who, at that time, ruled over the land of Judah. Read Judges 15.



God promised that land to the Jews, so it's theirs and they shouldn't give it up.



[ETA: shotar beat me to it because I take too long to write anything!]
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:54:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 4:59:56 AM EST by Synister1]
Palestinians: We were hear first, you Isreali's abandoned the land and we took it. We weren't smart enough to declare it a country.


Kofi Anan: The Palestinians just couldn't get around to it. They were too busy being conqured to fast and often for them to have a chance. It's time to correct that.


Isreal: Tough.


US: Just give them the dangerous parts. You know the area, full of mines and crappy growing conditions. We'll call it the roadmap to peace.

Isreal: OK "grin"
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:43:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
...

Never had a nation? So what? They lived there.

Israel made a massive error in judgement by their treatment of the Paleos since they established Israel as a nation. By forcing the Paleos to remain displaced they have made the descendants of the original inhabitants into the new Jews.
...



The 1947 UN Partition act would have divided up the country equally. Heck, the lands they claim they want NOW are smaller than what they would have had THEN. It has never been about land - it has always been about the refusal of the Arab world to allow Israel to exist.

Israel has learned this time and time again - they try to offer concessions in good faith, and more terrorism occurs - as the Palestinians leaders think this is a sign of weakness.



Yes… this seem's to be a fact that has been overlooked by history. The Palistinians were granted evrtything they wanted and more in 1947 by the UN Partition, but the Arabs said 'no' we are going to take the lot. They attacked, and Israel, although outnembered by at least 100:1, whipped their ass's. They have been in denial and sulking ever since.

"On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations voted with a 2/3 majority to partition western Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state. The Jews were to be granted what appears on the map in blue. Over 75% of the land allocated to the Jews was desert. Desperate to find a haven for the remnants of European Jewry after the Holocaust, the Jewish population accepted the plan which accorded them a diminished state. The Arabs, intent on preventing any Jewish entity in Palestine, rejected it."



So there you have the facts. The Palistinians would have a had a far larger state than they will get now, and Jerusalem was to have become an Internation Zone, run by an Independant UN Commission and belonging to neither side. Looks like this would have been the perfect solution… it was, but after spending nearly 50 years being attacked, you can't blame the Israelis for being intransigent now.

Andy
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:56:05 AM EST
Palestine was what the Roman Empire called the area during their rule. The Arabs who lived in that area after the Romans expelled the Jews were then called Palestinians.

There is currently a "Palestinian" state called Jordan. The majority of Jordans population is Palestinian. When the PLO started up after the establishment is Israel it was based in Jordan before being kicked out due the causing problems for King Hussian. The area called the West Bank was controlled by Jordan prior the 67 War.

Jordan supports a "Palestinian" state mainly due to all the problems they caused.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:46:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Rand . . . you made a rather incoherent statement which has little to back it up (most people don't know enough about the history of the area to contest or agree). While it is easy to agree that the state of Palestine never existed it is much more difficult to make a blanket statement saying that they should stop whinging and roll over.

Never had a nation? So what? They lived there.

Israel made a massive error in judgement by their treatment of the Paleos since they established Israel as a nation. By forcing the Paleos to remain displaced they have made the descendants of the original inhabitants into the new Jews.

A displaced people who have a strong belief that they deserve to possess the area in which Israel now exists.

There is a part of me which says that we should leave them to figure out how to get out of the hole that they dug for themselves. But I don't think we should abandon our allies. Abandoning them would destroy any influence we have with them, leaving open many possibilities which are far more disturbing than helping them in their national defense.

The Paleos are a distugsting lot. Their use of suicide bombers is sick . . . especially as they have used them to strike at the innocent and used the innocent to do the striking. But they were living there when the Jews showed back up and said they wanted to assume ownership again.

What will you do when the American Indians come back and tell you they want the great plains back?



Rand, if you want to get better response, you will need to actually use punctuation and not ramble quite so much (look whose talking!!). I think that most people looked at your post and said . . . okay . . . and went on with life.

If you are looking for discussion you added too much in the way of facts to be researched and if you were trolling for an argument you are not in an intellectual enough environment to have the history argument that you are after.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:50:51 PM EST
Do a Google search on "Balfour Declaration"...the whole Israel/Palestine thing starts there...
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:11:37 PM EST
When the first attempt to erradicate the Jews after WWII occurred the Arabs let their brothers (Palestinians once simple known as Arabs) flee before the attack. These self-displaced Arabs were SOL after Israel won and established citizenship for ALL the people who remained. To this day nearly 20% of Israel's population is ARAB! The national citizenship of Israel consisting of Arabs would have been much higher had the bastards not fled. They deserve nothing and less if they fail to accept their fate and become terrorists. Hell, their own brothers in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc will not allow them to immigrate into those countries! They are the pawn of the Arab countries and should be pissed at them for keeping them in squaller when the citizens of Kuait drive around in Mercedes. Planerench out.
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