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Posted: 4/24/2016 8:31:49 AM EDT





U.S. lawmakers have asked the Air Force about the possibility of restarting production of the F-22 Raptor fighter jet, an endeavor that would be far more complicated than signing a check and flipping the lights back on.






In its review of the 2017 defense authorization bill, the House Armed Services Committee asked service leaders to look into what it would take to build 194 new Raptors, enough to finally meet the Air Force’s long-stated requirement of 381 jets. HASC chairman Rep. Mac Thornberry, R-Texas, and others say the world has changed since 2009, when Defense Secretary Robert Gates halted the F-22 program at 187 aircraft in order to double down on the multirole F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. For one thing, the stealthy, supercruising Raptor was expected to keep the U.S. as undisputed king of air-to-air combat for decades. That turned to be overly optimistic.


"We’ve seen both Russia and China develop airplanes faster than was anticipated,” Air Force Lt. Gen. James Holmes, deputy chief of staff for strategic plans and requirements, told the Senate Armed Services Committee at a March 8 hearing.


Meanwhile, the prospect of conflict with those two nations seems less far-fetched than it once did. Indeed, the F-22 made its first two operational deployments to Europe — last August and again this month — in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and aggressive maneuvers in Eastern Europe.


"I don’t know that [more F-22s] is the answer, but in my town hall meetings, I get asked about this,” Thornberry said Thursday at a Defense Writers Group breakfast. "I think enough members were getting the question that the decision was made, see what [the Pentagon] says about that,” he said. "The answer may well come back: ‘It doesn’t make sense.’ I don’t know, but we’ll ask the question.”








Link Posted: 4/24/2016 8:33:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 8:36:02 AM EDT
What idiot was responsible for stopping the production of F-22's in the first place?
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 8:37:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 8:42:36 AM EDT
Why do we need more than 200?

Link Posted: 4/24/2016 8:52:56 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AeroE:
The Secretary of defense and The Kenyan.
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 That was the coffin nail but plenty of Republicans were opposed to the program. Rumsfeld and McCain's opposition to the program meant more were not purchased earlier and of course Gates was a holdover.

Link Posted: 4/24/2016 8:57:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 9:01:52 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AeroE:
The airplane was over 10 years late to the ramp and was bleeding money while the prospects the problems were getting fixed was dim.

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Originally Posted By AeroE:



Originally Posted By outofbattery:


Originally Posted By AeroE:

The Secretary of defense and The Kenyan.







 That was the coffin nail but plenty of Republicans were opposed to the program. Rumsfeld and McCain's opposition to the program meant more were not purchased earlier and of course Gates was a holdover.







The airplane was over 10 years late to the ramp and was bleeding money while the prospects the problems were getting fixed was dim.

So the development cycle was similar to the f35 program?

 
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 9:03:20 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By AeroE:


The Secretary of defense and The Kenyan.

View Quote
Thanks.



I need to make a list of obama's bad decisions just to keep up.
 
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 9:07:31 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:


Why do we need more than 200?



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One is none, two is one.



We only have 100?



 
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 9:23:03 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Taboot:



So the development cycle was similar to the f35 program?  
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Originally Posted By Taboot:



Originally Posted By AeroE:


Originally Posted By outofbattery:


Originally Posted By AeroE:

The Secretary of defense and The Kenyan.







 That was the coffin nail but plenty of Republicans were opposed to the program. Rumsfeld and McCain's opposition to the program meant more were not purchased earlier and of course Gates was a holdover.







The airplane was over 10 years late to the ramp and was bleeding money while the prospects the problems were getting fixed was dim.

So the development cycle was similar to the f35 program?  
Well let's not get crazy here...the F22 program was a model of efficiency compared to the F35.

 
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 9:55:11 AM EDT
IIRC they bought out the worlds remaining stocks of 286 processors to build the last F-22s.  The 286 isn't being made any more.  And since building a plane is much more than building an engine around an airframe, much of the cost these days is testing the electronics.
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 9:59:49 AM EDT
ICBMs are only $40 mil each and are a much more credible deterrent.
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 10:08:53 AM EDT
I've seen the abilites of the Raptor in real life and I cant comprehend why we aren't still making them. Awesome site to see
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 10:38:27 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By maxima2:
Thanks.

I need to make a list of obama's bad decisions just to keep up.


 
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Originally Posted By maxima2:
Originally Posted By AeroE:
The Secretary of defense and The Kenyan.
Thanks.

I need to make a list of obama's bad decisions just to keep up.


 

Are you NUTS?? That would take more server space than Arfcom has.

Hell, it'd take more server space than Google has.

Relax, it'll be over soon.
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 10:39:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
ICBMs are only $40 mil each and are a much more credible deterrent.
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"You don't spank a baby with a baseball bat."-- RAH
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 10:42:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By maxima2:
One is none, two is one.

We only have 100?
 
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Originally Posted By maxima2:
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:
Why do we need more than 200?

One is none, two is one.

We only have 100?
 

Number built195 (8 test and 187 operational aircraft)

Do we plan on doing that much air2air fighting or losing that many planes?
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 10:51:24 AM EDT
You need to fill the gap between sabre rattling and apocalyptic nuclear annihilation.  

A strong conventional force deters war.  

Unfortunately, the perception that America is militarily weak and our leadership even more so is encouraging our adversaries, so that ship has sailed.


Link Posted: 4/24/2016 10:59:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2016 11:00:14 AM EDT by pinpointshot]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:

Number built195 (8 test and 187 operational aircraft)

Do we plan on doing that much air2air fighting or losing that many planes?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:
Originally Posted By maxima2:
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:
Why do we need more than 200?

One is none, two is one.

We only have 100?
 

Number built195 (8 test and 187 operational aircraft)

Do we plan on doing that much air2air fighting or losing that many planes?

Well they can't all be in the same place at once, I image they would be stationed in multiple areas of the US (especially Alaska as interceptors), as well as Europe and Asia in the future.

And while I have 0 expertise on F22's aside from seeing one at an airshow, I know aircraft are extremely maintenance intensive and are down all the time, sometimes only 1/3 of any given aircraft are in the green for operations depending on many factors.
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 3:30:18 PM EDT
What would it take:: a 2% income tax rate hike for everyone.
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