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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/17/2001 1:03:47 PM EDT
i've been reading about a study done by an leo magazine that looked at barrel length v/s velocity. they took a 25-26" barrel and cut and inch off at a time. each time looking at bullet velocity. the discovered that there was no loss in velocity up to 20". then with 18" barrel it was only about 30 fps. the basic point a shorter, stiffer more compact barrel is better then a longer one--and you only are down 30 fps at 18". this got me thinking, i saw that krebs is advertisizing a .308 ak with a 14" barrel and a ak-74 brake permenantly attached--to make her legal and all. it has a krink gas tube and handgaurds--looks really sweet. my question, do you loose the tactical advantage of the .308 by making the barrel so short (how much velocity to you really loose)? is such a creation more essoteric than practical? it looked to be a vepr reciever converted to accept m-14 mags. any thoughs? sloth
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 1:08:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sloth: this got me thinking, i saw that krebs is advertisizing a .308 ak with a 14" barrel and a ak-74 brake permenantly attached--to make her legal and all. it has a krink gas tube and handgaurds--looks really sweet. my question, do you loose the tactical advantage of the .308 by making the barrel so short (how much velocity to you really loose)? is such a creation more essoteric than practical? it looked to be a vepr reciever converted to accept m-14 mags. any thoughs? sloth
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At this point, I think I would go with the STG 58A FAL carbine. (see DSA) 30 FPS would make no practical difference in terminal ballistics, i don't believe. What you WILL have is a VERY loud gun.
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 2:27:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 4:47:18 PM EDT
You could also tailor handloads with smaller charges of faster burning powders to better take advantage of what barrel time there is in a short tube. In any event, don't think of it as losing velocity - think of it as gaining maneuverability and that quality known in some circles as 'range presence' - ie a muzzle flash/blast signature that resembles a flashbang. [8D] Wear sunglasses and good earplugs. As an aside, I discovered a 100% practical reason for shorty guns - ever take a trip to the range with three people in a Geo Metro?? ALL our firearms had to fit in the 'trunk'... had to leave the M1 behind 'cuz we couldn't fit it in. -sniff-
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 5:08:58 PM EDT
As I am a bit of a a "gun snob," I have had my eyes on that Steyr Scout rifle for some time. If I remember correctly, it has a 18" barrel and shoots MOA groups - at least from 100 yards. I would love to test it out at longer ranges. The other advantage of shorter barrels is simply that the bullet will leave faster, thus requiring less follow through. While the factors involved may be miniscule, Anschutz believed in it enough to chop the barrel length of their match rifles years ago and use just a tube extension for sight mounting / weight at the end. The theory - if a shorter barrel is just as accurate, why have a longer one? Of course, the ultimate choice of whether you want long and heavy or short and light will be based on your intended use - hence the glory of the free market. Adam
Link Posted: 9/17/2001 5:40:50 PM EDT
The four inches you loose between 18 and 14 inches will cost you between 50 and 100 fps per inch depending on the load. Now your talking about a BIG difference.
Link Posted: 9/18/2001 11:39:52 AM EDT
Tactical Operations .308 Winchester (7.62x51mm NATO) caliber Tango 51 rifle, which I wrote about in the April 2000 issue of S.W.A.T., typifies the trend to rifles with shorter barrels. Tac Ops considers a barrel of length of 18 to 20 inches to be optimal for the urban environment, with 18 inches the preferred length. During the development of the Tango 51, Tac Ops took a standard 26-inch barrel and cut it down to 18 inches in one-inch increments. Between 10 to 20 rounds were fired at each invrement. They found that a 20-inch barrel provides for a complete propellant burn and no velocity loss when using Federal Match 168-grain BTHP, a cartridge that has become something of a law enforcement standard. Going to an 18-inch barrel only resulted in a loss of 32 feet per second (fps). Shorter barreled rifles are more versatile, being equally suitable for both urban and rural operations. According to Tac Ops, there isn't any need to go to the 26-inch barrel unless you want to go to a heavier bullet or push the round to higher velocity using more powder or use a slower burning powder. The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department's Special Enforcement Bureau (SEB) performed tests similar to those conducted by Tac Ops and came to similar conclusions. this is an excerpt from the article i was refering too. it is from S.W.A.T. magazine--i might not have been very clear with the phrasing in my first post. sloth
Link Posted: 9/18/2001 11:57:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/18/2001 1:04:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2001 1:04:46 PM EDT by operatorerror]
Read somewhere that you need 17 inches minimum to allow for complete powder burn (for a .308). Edited to add the .308 comment.
Link Posted: 9/18/2001 1:46:33 PM EDT
so I guess something like a scoped Winchester Model 70 Featherweight Compact isn't such a bad compromise afterall? Looks very PC.
Link Posted: 9/18/2001 6:25:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By operatorerror: Read somewhere that you need 17 inches minimum to allow for complete powder burn (for a .308). Edited to add the .308 comment.
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I heard that directly from Gunplumber, the master FAL smith. He said if you add a brake, it's not quite as bad. So I had him build me two FALs with 16 1/4" barrels using DSA short brakes.
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