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Posted: 5/6/2004 11:34:45 AM EST
I am going to talk to a recruiter next week. I did the Army thing for 4 years, and have been out for 5 years now. I think I want to go back, this time as an officer. Any advice?
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:36:40 AM EST
In the air force if you are not a pilot you are a second rate officer. That being said, even second rate officers have a great quality of life there.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:52:47 AM EST
Don't ask/Don't Tell.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:55:07 AM EST
The USAF puts more resources into quality of life issues than any other service.

Also, allowing for a few exceptions, the enlisted guys stay home and send the officers off to fight.

Being prior Army I think you would find the general atmosphere in the USAF pretty casual and relaxed.

I'd say go for it.

Brohawk
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:03:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 12:04:29 PM EST by NewbHunter]
My twin brother is currently in the air force. He's in training right now. The pay and benefits are good, but the training is very demanding and time consuming. It all depends on what you go into, but he's training to be WSO on an F-15E or B-1B. That's not an easy job to get into though. He was one of five selected out of around 150 in his OTS class to go to fighter navigator school. One of the reasons he made it is because he studied hard. You have to be very motivated and commited to doing your best as well as show good leadership skills. Another thing that he did was before he took his tests to get into OTS to begin with, he bought some books that help you study for the tests they give you. I think you can get them at any local book store, but I may be wrong. Anyway, he studied those like crazy and as a consequence he had outstanding scores and was highly sought after.

It's funny though, when he went to take the test there was a couple of other guys there taking them with him. One of the guys was just a loser type and the other was a top gun, cocky wannabe. He gave my brother shit for going for navigator and not pilot. After the test was over and they got their scores they were complaining about how hard it was and how poorly they had done. My brother kicked both their asses and then asked them, "Didn't you buy the study guides and study before the test?" They both looked at him and said, "What study guides?"

BTW, he's in Pensecola right now.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:25:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
The USAF puts more resources into quality of life issues than any other service.

Also, allowing for a few exceptions, the enlisted guys stay home and send the officers off to fight.

Being prior Army I think you would find the general atmosphere in the USAF pretty casual and relaxed.

I'd say go for it.

Brohawk
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)



Bite your tongue! Nothing personal, but when did you retire?

The O's may go off and do the actual "iron on target" jobs, but PLEASE don't assume because you may or may not have done your fair share of O/S TDYs, that the rest of us don't get deployed! Who do you think is in the AOR alongside them maintaining their aircraft, cooking their food, taking care of their personnel issues, etc........I realize we don't have rifles in hand and walking the streets of Baghdad, but we ARE in the SWA AOR every day! And there's a lot more E's than O's!

MSgt Clark (Still serving)
84th ALF
Peterson AFB CO

P.S. In my 19+ yrs on active duty I have deployed to Riyadh AB (twice), Al Kharj, Pisa AB Italy, Howard AFB Panama, Soto Cano AB Honduras and Istres France.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:33:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 12:34:33 PM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By TennVol:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
The USAF puts more resources into quality of life issues than any other service.

Also, allowing for a few exceptions, the enlisted guys stay home and send the officers off to fight.

Being prior Army I think you would find the general atmosphere in the USAF pretty casual and relaxed.

I'd say go for it.

Brohawk
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)



Bite your tongue! Nothing personal, but when did you retire?

The O's may go off and do the actual "iron on target" jobs, but PLEASE don't assume because you may or may not have done your fair share of O/S TDYs, that the rest of us don't get deployed! Who do you think is in the AOR alongside them maintaining their aircraft, cooking their food, taking care of their personnel issues, etc........I realize we don't have rifles in hand and walking the streets of Baghdad, but we ARE in the SWA AOR every day! And there's a lot more E's than O's!

MSgt Clark (Still serving)
84th ALF
Peterson AFB CO

P.S. In my 19+ yrs on active duty I have deployed to Riyadh AB (twice), Al Kharj, Pisa AB Italy, Howard AFB Panama, Soto Cano AB Honduras and Istres France.



A guy who goes to my health club with me in the morning is enlisted in the AF and just got back from Afghanistan. He was working out of a base high up in the mountains that had special forces working out of it every day. Not only that, but they got attacked at least twice a week and he took shrapnel to the face and back. Fortunately he's ok, it wasn't life threatening, but he was deployed an in harms way for sure. If that mortar that dropped not 30 yards from him would have been any closer he thinks he would have been swiss cheese. So yes, you're right. There are enlisted AF guys who are not sitting at a desk at home. I don't even think I need to mention the forward combat controllers either...
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:56:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 12:58:39 PM EST by TennVol]
I forgot to answer your question. The $$$ is definitely better as an O rather than an E. But you have more bullshit you have to put up with as an O . The choice is yours. If you are really interested, the AFI dealing with ROTC & OTS is found at the following link:

www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/36/afi36-2013/afi36-2013.pdf

Basic guidelines are you need a minimum of a 4 yr college degree; if you want a non-flying job you need to be commisisoned prior to your 35th birthday. If you want to fly, you need to be commissioned prior to your 29th birthday
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:06:49 PM EST
I have a degree and 4 years enlisted time, so the OE pay scale looks good. I am definitely under 35. Any info on IT jobs in the AF?
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:12:12 PM EST
Most of the IT guys on my base are either E's or contractors. The O's just "lead", no real hands-on to speak of. On a side note, I think the whole damn USAF is going to be contracted out in under ten years!
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:40:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By TennVol:
Most of the IT guys on my base are either E's or contractors. The O's just "lead", no real hands-on to speak of. On a side note, I think the whole damn USAF is going to be contracted out in under ten years!



Sweet!!! Maybe I'll be able to find a job in the States.

CHRIS
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 3:20:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 3:23:59 PM EST by Brohawk]

Originally Posted By TennVol:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
The USAF puts more resources into quality of life issues than any other service.

Also, allowing for a few exceptions, the enlisted guys stay home and send the officers off to fight.

Being prior Army I think you would find the general atmosphere in the USAF pretty casual and relaxed.

I'd say go for it.

Brohawk
MSgt, USAF (Ret.)





Bite your tongue! Nothing personal, but when did you retire?

The O's may go off and do the actual "iron on target" jobs, but PLEASE don't assume because you may or may not have done your fair share of O/S TDYs, that the rest of us don't get deployed! Who do you think is in the AOR alongside them maintaining their aircraft, cooking their food, taking care of their personnel issues, etc........I realize we don't have rifles in hand and walking the streets of Baghdad, but we ARE in the SWA AOR every day! And there's a lot more E's than O's!

MSgt Clark (Still serving)
84th ALF
Peterson AFB CO

P.S. In my 19+ yrs on active duty I have deployed to Riyadh AB (twice), Al Kharj, Pisa AB Italy, Howard AFB Panama, Soto Cano AB Honduras and Istres France.




WHOA!!!!!

It's an old joke!

I deployed for Just Cause and made a stop in Mogadishu back in the day! I've been through Central and South America, and several places on the African continent as an E.

I know USAF CCT/FACs have saved the bacon a multitude of times in GW1, Afghanistan, and elsewhere! Although I am now retired (almost 5 years) I still have many friends on active duty, some in and out of exotic locations seen on the evening news. I know what the scoop is, so relax and don't forget to exhale!

And your stress level goes down when you keep your sense of humor handy.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 3:52:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
In the air force if you are not a pilot you are a second rate officer. That being said, even second rate officers have a great quality of life there.



There are no second rate officers in the Air Force, only second rate jobs. True, pilots are a close knit bunch and can be assholes to others, but you should expect that from someone who gets paid so much. If I had a choice of going to be an officer, I would choose the Air Force since there is no BS "Warrant Officer" rank with a glass ceiling and you can go all the way up if you choose. It will be extremely hard to get used to the environment again, though.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:07:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By eaglebite:

Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
In the air force if you are not a pilot you are a second rate officer. That being said, even second rate officers have a great quality of life there.



There are no second rate officers in the Air Force, only second rate jobs. True, pilots are a close knit bunch and can be assholes to others, but you should expect that from someone who gets paid so much. If I had a choice of going to be an officer, I would choose the Air Force since there is no BS "Warrant Officer" rank with a glass ceiling and you can go all the way up if you choose. It will be extremely hard to get used to the environment again, though.



Wow - to think some of us do the job to do the job, and don't worry about going "all the way up." The Army has officer pilots and warrant officer pilots. The warrants are professional pilots and focus on flying. The officers are officers who also fly. I have never met ONE warrant officer who was upset about not being able to become a general officers or something. Most when warrant to avoid careerist, stupid bullshit mentalities like that.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:21:48 PM EST




Questions?
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:23:38 PM EST

http://www.olin.wustl.edu/faculty/langfred/service.jpg


Exactly!
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:25:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By eaglebite:

Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
In the air force if you are not a pilot you are a second rate officer. That being said, even second rate officers have a great quality of life there.



There are no second rate officers in the Air Force, only second rate jobs. True, pilots are a close knit bunch and can be assholes to others, but you should expect that from someone who gets paid so much. If I had a choice of going to be an officer, I would choose the Air Force since there is no BS "Warrant Officer" rank with a glass ceiling and you can go all the way up if you choose. It will be extremely hard to get used to the environment again, though.



Wow - to think some of us do the job to do the job, and don't worry about going "all the way up." The Army has officer pilots and warrant officer pilots. The warrants are professional pilots and focus on flying. The officers are officers who also fly. I have never met ONE warrant officer who was upset about not being able to become a general officers or something. Most when warrant to avoid careerist, stupid bullshit mentalities like that.



I think having option to move up is one of the most powerful things in life. Maybe I'm wrong, but warrant officers can't move up, can they? Don't they just add dots to their butter bar? I'm not trying to insult the people who do the job, I just don't like the system that is in use. I feel that if you go through the shit of becoming an officer (being prior enlisted), no matter what branch of the military, you should be commissioned just like every other career officer.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:28:05 PM EST
LOL!!!!
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:41:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
www.olin.wustl.edu/faculty/langfred/service.jpg



Questions?



LOL!!! Hell yeah! That's what the Air Force was like for me! Spring break TDYs and strip club raids, too much booty for two eyes to handle.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 6:03:09 PM EST
Go Air Force, go commissioned, and go for any aircrew position you can get. Pilot first, of course!

Aircrew jobs are the best ones, for sure.

CJ
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 6:05:14 PM EST
Deploying??? You need to talk to muy son who is going into his 3rd year of shoveling shit in South Carolina. DEP'd in High School and went in just after 9/11 and has been at Shaw the entire time after training except for 1 tdy at Savannah, GA. A couple of hours away and across one river from So. Carolina. Needless to say he is rather depressed about his lack of direct involvement in the war effort.

Link Posted: 5/6/2004 6:07:40 PM EST
If I were going into the USAF I'd try to get into UAVs (robot planes). They seem to be the wave of the future.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 1:31:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Deploying??? You need to talk to muy son who is going into his 3rd year of shoveling shit in South Carolina. DEP'd in High School and went in just after 9/11 and has been at Shaw the entire time after training except for 1 tdy at Savannah, GA. A couple of hours away and across one river from So. Carolina. Needless to say he is rather depressed about his lack of direct involvement in the war effort.




I can relate to your son's feelings. While I did have some deployments, I was kept home during Gulf War 1. A LOT of friends were sent over to the sandbox, but of course somebody had to keep things moving at home station. We were a heavy, strategic airlift operation keeping the flow of beans and bullets going from the States to the war theater.

I understood that the airplanes needed to be worked on our end so they would get to their destination OK, but it was frustrating. There were many nights I couldn't sleep because of thinking, "I should be over there with them."

Tell your son that his service is appreciated by us. Each little cog works to keep the big machine moving along.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 2:00:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By eaglebite:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By eaglebite:

Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
In the air force if you are not a pilot you are a second rate officer. That being said, even second rate officers have a great quality of life there.



There are no second rate officers in the Air Force, only second rate jobs. True, pilots are a close knit bunch and can be assholes to others, but you should expect that from someone who gets paid so much. If I had a choice of going to be an officer, I would choose the Air Force since there is no BS "Warrant Officer" rank with a glass ceiling and you can go all the way up if you choose. It will be extremely hard to get used to the environment again, though.



Wow - to think some of us do the job to do the job, and don't worry about going "all the way up." The Army has officer pilots and warrant officer pilots. The warrants are professional pilots and focus on flying. The officers are officers who also fly. I have never met ONE warrant officer who was upset about not being able to become a general officers or something. Most when warrant to avoid careerist, stupid bullshit mentalities like that.



I think having option to move up is one of the most powerful things in life. Maybe I'm wrong, but warrant officers can't move up, can they? Don't they just add dots to their butter bar? I'm not trying to insult the people who do the job, I just don't like the system that is in use. I feel that if you go through the shit of becoming an officer (being prior enlisted), no matter what branch of the military, you should be commissioned just like every other career officer.



Do you really believe that when Warrant Officers get promoted that ".... they just add dots to their butter bar ....", and that's it?

You say you're not trying to insult, but your incredibly ignorant statement does EXACTLY that.

In what branch did you serve in, and for how long?


Chris
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 2:26:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 2:26:58 AM EST by LS1Eddie]

The O's may go off and do the actual "iron on target" jobs, but PLEASE don't assume because you may or may not have done your fair share of O/S TDYs, that the rest of us don't get deployed! Who do you think is in the AOR alongside them maintaining their aircraft, cooking their food, taking care of their personnel issues, etc........I realize we don't have rifles in hand and walking the streets of Baghdad, but we ARE in the SWA AOR every day! And there's a lot more E's than O's!


BTDT, as much as seven months in one year. I was generally alongside the Army and sometimes the Navy. Was a member of the advance team for Operations Just Cause, Desert Shield/Storm and several more that didn't make headlines. I agree with Brohawk; compared to the Army, Uncle Sugar's Air Force is more relaxed.

Eddie (SMSgt, Ret '98)

Link Posted: 5/7/2004 2:55:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
If I were going into the USAF I'd try to get into UAVs (robot planes). They seem to be the wave of the future.

GunLvr




[smartass mode]

Trust me, you wouldn't be able to get into a UAV anyway. They're small and have no provisions for carrying a person. That's why they're called UNMANNED Aerial Vehicles!

[/smartass mode]

CH

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