Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 10/25/2013 4:56:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 4:56:23 PM EST by dog-meat]
This frontline piece is pretty good:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hunting-the-nightmare-bacteria/





We are quickly running out of therapies to treat some of these infections that previously had been eminently treatable. There are bacteria that we encounter, particularly in health-care settings, that are resistant to nearly all — or, in some cases, all — the antibiotics that we have available to us, and we are thus entering an era that people have talked about for a long time.

For a long time, there have been newspaper stories and covers of magazines that talked about “The end of antibiotics, question mark?” Well, now I would say you can change the title to “The end of antibiotics, period.”

We’re here. We’re in the post-antibiotic era. There are patients for whom we have no therapy, and we are literally in a position of having a patient in a bed who has an infection, something that five years ago even we could have treated, but now we can’t. …

View Quote
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:07:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:08:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:09:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:13:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Happens all the time.
View Quote


na not all the time.


but i would say we are overdue for a plague.

not that i want one but its more likely than anything else.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:14:45 PM EST

when I worked at the VA, they were preparing for a pandemic...secret stuff it was...
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:24:23 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
View Quote

i'm going to disregard your BS flag and trust the MD that posted right above you.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:29:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
View Quote



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:31:45 PM EST
Is MRSA a result of this?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:32:18 PM EST
Democrats are trying to scare us into banning antibiotics because they love bugs.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:33:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 5:36:10 PM EST by lostnswv]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....



Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won?

As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:35:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:36:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 5:38:08 PM EST by DragoMuseveni]
Well instead of investing in drugs that don't work, lets invest all of our research money into nanobots that can search and destroy the bacteria.


Then in 30 years we can worry about grey goo or in laymen's terms. Nanobot cancer.
Edit, which is probably less worse a side effect than the shit Cipro does to people.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:38:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 5:38:34 PM EST by hawktheslayer]
I have a question...in the beginning in the age of antibiotics many moons ago; do you think that we would be on better ground if we medically segregated people against their will in a locked facility, until their round of Antibiotics was finished?

Seeing as the problem we have today with mutating bacteria--is that people are exposing the bacteria to the anti-biotics, then not finishing the pills---and helping them become more
resistant, which can affect an entire population...

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:38:20 PM EST
Every time I talk to a microbiologist I'm assured that things, though tough, are treatable. Having said that, we over prescribe and thus bring about the resistance proliferating in prokaryotic cells today. It's not doom and gloom yet.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:41:22 PM EST
How many died of "resistant" bugs?
How many died of MVAs? sorry, still old fashioned
How many of malaria?
Cigarettes?
Beef?
Bacon?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:41:27 PM EST
So when is my stash of cipro and amoxicillin going to be totally useless?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:42:32 PM EST
It's not bullshit, it's hormesis. Same way your muscle adapts to the stress of lifting weights, bacteria adapts to the stress of antibiotics.

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:47:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostnswv:



Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won?

As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....



Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won?

As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.


No, not really. Especially not available ones. The completely stupid over/improper use of antibiotics has us teetering on the edge of the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes.
We fucked up, big. It isn't a matter of economics.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:48:18 PM EST
The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with....
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:48:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 5:49:25 PM EST by Him]
There is some really, really nasty shit floating around out there.

In many cases, antibiotics only serve to select the strongest individual bacteria, and there aren't enough of them left to sustain the disease. The patient is cured ........... this time.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:50:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katrina24:
The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with....
View Quote

soap by nature is anti-bacterial...
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:50:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katrina24:
The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with....
View Quote


Likely up there.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:52:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostnswv:



Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won?

As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....



Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won?

As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.


Yep, and by the time the 'new' antibiotics hit the market there will be resistance to them too. Just check out the fluoroquinolones, which were touted to be the ultimate 'resistance proof' new antibiotic in the 90's. Guess what.................
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:53:20 PM EST
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:53:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:

soap by nature is anti-bacterial...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
Originally Posted By katrina24:
The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with....

soap by nature is anti-bacterial...


No, it's a surfactant.
You don't wash bacteria away with antibiotics, you kill them. And now all the old standbys don't work so well anymore, because of dumbshits who insisted on antibiotics for a cold, antibiotic soap, not finishing a complete course, etc.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:54:02 PM EST
Not really bullshit. Bacteria have as many ways to defeat antibiotics as we have antibiotics. My supervisor had an advanced micro degree and worked all over the world. It's even worse in countries that just sell them over the counter. That's where the most resistant organisms start out.

We had a case where a person had a Kleb pneumo resistant to everything and just died. The infection control doctors were freaking out. They tried everything. We had to send the organism to CDC cause they study these things.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:54:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 5:55:32 PM EST by ContrarianIndicator]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katrina24:
The use of anti-bacterial soap. will have been the single most stupid ideal we have ever come up with....
View Quote


I heard that you have to have anti-bacterial soap on your hands for 2 minutes for it to actually kill bacteria. Otherwise it just works as an emulsifier like any other soap.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:54:23 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cpermd:
How many died of "resistant" bugs?
How many died of MVAs? sorry, still old fashioned
How many of malaria?
Cigarettes?
Beef?
Bacon?
View Quote

You can't die from bacon;you can die without bacon.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:54:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ContrarianIndicator:
Is MRSA a result of this?
View Quote
MRSA is small potatoes compared to this.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:59:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostnswv:



Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won?

As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....



Sometime ago there was a really smart guy who made a bet about us running out of minerals, metals, fresh waters, and food. Some stupid ass business guy told Mr. Smart that he was nuts, and Mr. Business said that prices would go down, and supplies would rise, and alternatives would be developed. Really smart guy thought he could make a mint off stupid business guy. Guess who won?

As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.
THere is a finite number of antibiotics that can be developed if in fact there were, but they're not.

Bacteria can already defeat whatever is developed, it's just a matter of time. There are many mechanisms that enable this. There are gram negative bacteria that simply don't have any porins in the membrane, so antibiotics can't get in there to even see if there are other resistant mechanisms.

There are different genes for the different mechanisms for resistance. Some enable the bacteria to produce carbapenumase, which would resist carbapenums. Usually by cleaving the active ring. We actually do genetic testing to determine mrsa and Cdiff toxin. The ability to detect other types will only increase.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:00:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2ndamendmentknights:
Every time I talk to a microbiologist I'm assured that things, though tough, are treatable. Having said that, we over prescribe and thus bring about the resistance proliferating in prokaryotic cells today. It's not doom and gloom yet.
View Quote
You are talking to the wrong microbiologists.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:00:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 6:05:50 PM EST by gitarmac]
opps
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:00:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:


No, not really. ... the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.


No, not really. ... the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes.


Correct. Antibiotics alleviated much suffering, and enabled lots of unhygienic behavior. If antibiotic-immune bugs become common, we're in a world of hurt, the likes of which few people alive can remember. Debilitating afflictions of young and old will be common. Loss of children and wives related to child birth will be common again.

Today's generation doesn't know what human suffering looks like.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:01:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 6:02:21 PM EST by dataflux]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gitarmac:
MRSA is small potatoes compared to this.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gitarmac:
Originally Posted By ContrarianIndicator:
Is MRSA a result of this?
MRSA is small potatoes compared to this.


and MRSA kills more people than AIDS.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:01:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there
View Quote


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:03:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JVD:
So when is my stash of cipro and amoxicillin going to be totally useless?
View Quote
Cipro is only bacteria-static. It's already useless in some infections. Lots of things can resist amoxicillin.

The source of the infection is important for determining what antibiotic is needed. For instance, you shouldn't use daptomycin for a respiratory infection because that area of the body produces an antisurficant for your lungs which enables dapto useless.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:03:41 PM EST
Bacteriophages are the next big treatment for bacterial infections?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:04:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:


Actually, it's not uncommon for ICU patients to come down with stuff we simply have ZERO antibiotics to treat.

Google VRE (Vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus).

It's not a plague, or likely to become one, but it's a problem for debilitated ICU patients who already have enough stacked against them.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By TheNamelessOne:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Happens all the time.


na not all the time.

but i would say we are overdue for a plague.

not that i want one but its more likely than anything else.


Actually, it's not uncommon for ICU patients to come down with stuff we simply have ZERO antibiotics to treat.

Google VRE (Vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus).

It's not a plague, or likely to become one, but it's a problem for debilitated ICU patients who already have enough stacked against them.


I just saw someone in the ICU the other day and nothing was touching their infection. It's crazy.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:05:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there
View Quote
That's why patients are referred to specialists when they have serious infections. There might be 50 carbapenums but if a bacteria produces carbopenumase then every one of them will be useless.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:05:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....

my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:07:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dataflux:


and MRSA kills more people than AIDS.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dataflux:
Originally Posted By gitarmac:
Originally Posted By ContrarianIndicator:
Is MRSA a result of this?
MRSA is small potatoes compared to this.


and MRSA kills more people than AIDS.



Are you quoting the 2005 CDC stats?..., if so ,that is just for the US, not worldwide.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:08:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:

my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....

my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections
THe person that died was being treated for strep pneumo. Then a couple weeks later got a respiratory infection from the kleb. It went into their blood and pleural fluid and stuff.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:10:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_naked_prophet:
Bacteriophages are the next big treatment for bacterial infections?
View Quote



Phages are quite a ways off yet. When and if they reach market you may not be able to afford them.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:10:55 PM EST
Humans have always died of bacteriological infections and always will. Evolution isn't just for primates.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:12:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By j_treckler:


Correct. Antibiotics alleviated much suffering, and enabled lots of unhygienic behavior. If antibiotic-immune bugs become common, we're in a world of hurt, the likes of which few people alive can remember. Debilitating afflictions of young and old will be common. Loss of children and wives related to child birth will be common again.

Today's generation doesn't know what human suffering looks like.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By j_treckler:
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
As we speak new medicines are being developed and replacements for the modern antibodics are being developed.


No, not really. ... the late 1800's as far as treatability of "minor" infection goes.


Correct. Antibiotics alleviated much suffering, and enabled lots of unhygienic behavior. If antibiotic-immune bugs become common, we're in a world of hurt, the likes of which few people alive can remember. Debilitating afflictions of young and old will be common. Loss of children and wives related to child birth will be common again.

Today's generation doesn't know what human suffering looks like.
Antibiotics were not in mainstream use till about the 40's. It took no time at all for resistance to kick in. Every new antibiotic sooner or later will become useless for some strains of bacteria.

I make the calls to the floors when there is a resistant organism. I talk to the infectious disease doctors when they are trying to find something to work. I'm the one that sets up the added sensitivities to these orgs, I get to see the resistance in action.

The infection control docs take this shit seriously.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:13:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:



Nope, no BS, those bugs are out there....


I'm currently in school to work in a medical testing laboratory. This isn't B.S. We currently have more incurable strains of pathogens out there than any time in history. The reason we aren't having pandemics left and right is that in this day and age we know what germs are and take precautions to prevent spread of infections.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:15:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:

my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....

my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections



I understand completely...
You may not have a 'bacterial sinus infection' if it takes repeated antibiotic treatments. There is a lot of research going on in the area of sinus infections caused by molds and the residual effects due to the 'micro' environment they exist in. You may want to check with a immunologist/allergist to get more info.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:15:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....


This. Being cavalier is sometimes known as .... stupid.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:16:44 PM EST
The beginning of micro-RNA therapy!!!

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 6:17:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:

my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flash556:
Originally Posted By WileECoyote:
Originally Posted By flash556:
Last time I talked to my Dr. and expressed my concerns about antibiotics he chuckled....there are about 100 different types out there


Let me know if he chuckles, when he comes face to face with one and tries to treat it with the '100 different types'.....

my concern was taking them for the same issue repeatedly...Sinus infections


This isn't Chicken Little stuff, it's real.
Think of it like warfare. If we don't kill ALL of the enemy with whatever we have in our toolbox, the remaining ones will develop countermeasures. And at the same time all our methods of warfare are public domain.
And as antibiotics were/are used, we've left a lot of the enemy alive every time.

Now a bunch of them are so battle-hardened & aware of our methods of attack, they are essentially un-killable; but this isn't an arms race we have the tools to keep fighting. We only have so many ways we can go, and all of them are becoming less & less effective. It doesn't matter how much money there is to be made, or how much is thrown at the problem.

It's a serious problem.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top