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Posted: 6/17/2006 11:22:19 PM EDT
you know, how do you beat the grinder? [the guy who folds every round until he has a pair]

these guys are nearly unstoppable! how do you stop it!
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:25:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Raise the blinds every 20 minutes or whenever someone goes out.
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:26:21 PM EDT
[#2]
thats how you play it, My friends hate me when i fold everytime until I get a very good cards and i will go ahead and play along with the flop ...

after that, If i know i can beat them , I will play the hand ..

if i cant, I wil N O T play the hand cuz you arent robbing my money bitch !
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:28:29 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
thats how you play it, My friends hate me when i fold everytime until I get a very good cards and i will go ahead and play along with the flop ...

after that, If i know i can beat them , I will play the hand ..

if i cant, I wil N O T play the hand cuz you arent robbing my money bitch !



Play like that and I will own you.

It is a tell just as sure as smiling when you flop trips.
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:28:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Demand that they put into the pot before the flop.
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:29:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Raise before the flop, 4x the BB works for me. Don't do it every hand, or just when you have a good hand. I've been known to raise with crap and it works. Are you talking online poker or in person? In person you gotta watch him and pick up any tells he might have. In my experience the people that fold until they have a big hand get blinded out. So raise before he can bet or fold if he bets. The people that fold until they hit a good hand are easy, it is the ones that play most hands are hard to read.
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:33:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Look at it this way: you know when he has a good hand.  Fold when he plays and you'll beat him on the blinds alone.
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:51:56 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
Look at it this way: you know when he has a good hand.  Fold when he plays and you'll beat him on the blinds alone.



well, you do still buff. But late in the game. So by folding, you still may lose.
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:54:09 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Look at it this way: you know when he has a good hand.  Fold when he plays and you'll beat him on the blinds alone.



well, you do still buff. But late in the game. So by folding, you still may lose.




There is no method of playing poker that is 100%, if there was people wouldn't play for money
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:55:55 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

There is no method of playing poker that is 100%, if there was people wouldn't play for money



no dought that it is gambling, im just interested in loss prevention
Link Posted: 6/17/2006 11:59:02 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Look at it this way: you know when he has a good hand.  Fold when he plays and you'll beat him on the blinds alone.



well, you do still buff. But late in the game. So by folding, you still may lose.




There is no method of playing poker that is 100%, if there was people wouldn't play for money



Well, the matter at hand is how to beat a specific player, not a general "thuper duper money making thrategy."   If a player has a tell, you can significantly increase your odds.  If a player has a very predictable strategy, you can use that against him.  Of course one of the other factors is the rest of the people at the table.
Link Posted: 6/18/2006 12:10:21 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Look at it this way: you know when he has a good hand.  Fold when he plays and you'll beat him on the blinds alone.



well, you do still buff. But late in the game. So by folding, you still may lose.




There is no method of playing poker that is 100%, if there was people wouldn't play for money



Well, the matter at hand is how to beat a specific player, not a general "thuper duper money making thrategy."   If a player has a tell, you can significantly increase your odds.  If a player has a very predictable strategy, you can use that against him.  Of course one of the other factors is the rest of the people at the table.



This is true, that is why I asked if this was online or in person. The only thing you can do online is watch for betting patterns, but in person you play the man, not the cards, for the most part. The people that get to me the most are the people that chase a straight or flush, the people that shouldn't call with the hand they have and the bet you make. It drives me nuts. To me any hand that is worth playing is usually good enough to raise, unless someone raises a head of you. Then your hand isn't so good anymore
Link Posted: 6/18/2006 12:32:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Only thing I can say is win about 52-55% of the time -- Poker is a "long term" game!

Oh yeah, if the "grinder" irritates you, he/she is probably a better player.  If  patience doesn't work, "trap 'em" w/ a premium/semi-premium hand (beware; you usually get outdrawn)!

Good luck!  (But "good skilz" is better in the long run)

B2
Link Posted: 6/18/2006 12:35:07 AM EDT
[#13]
had that once, I was sitting in the Big Blind with a 7-2 off suit and a mouse (grinder) called the blinds with a 9-9.  I figured what the hell since I was in the BB, I raised it 2x the blinds.  7-2 offsuit is defiently not a raising hand.  Anyways he calls and the flop comes 2-2-2.  I knew he had a decent pocket pair just from his play through out the game, so I just checked and he went all in.  When I called, he smugly fipped up his full house when I only had to show my one 2.  I just saw this smug supertight player just collapse after seeing him just get throttled on the flop.  I won that tournament too!
Link Posted: 6/20/2006 10:46:31 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
Only thing I can say is win about 52-55% of the time -- Poker is a "long term" game!

Oh yeah, if the "grinder" irritates you, he/she is probably a better player. If  patience doesn't work, "trap 'em" w/ a premium/semi-premium hand (beware; you usually get outdrawn)!

Good luck!  (But "good skilz" is better in the long run)

B2



Im a tight grinder, I was just curious as to how the enemy might be able to take me out.

Do you guys have any more poker stories? I love em
Link Posted: 6/20/2006 11:02:57 AM EDT
[#15]
I got one for you................ Got beat 2 times last night with pocket AcesBoth times onthe river. got them to go all in on the flop. I could not win last night. Full tilt paker is great!!!

Slug-O-Matic
Link Posted: 6/20/2006 11:11:16 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
I got one for you................ Got beat 2 times last night with pocket AcesBoth times onthe river. got them to go all in on the flop. I could not win last night. Full tilt paker is great!!!

Slug-O-Matic



Aces get cracked on the internet all the time.  Fulltilt is famous for it.  In my experience PartyPoker is the worst people chasing and hitting those 2 outers all the time.

Link Posted: 6/20/2006 11:16:08 AM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
thats how you play it, My friends hate me when i fold everytime until I get a very good cards and i will go ahead and play along with the flop ...

after that, If i know i can beat them , I will play the hand ..

if i cant, I wil N O T play the hand cuz you arent robbing my money bitch !



Play like that and I will own you.

It is a tell just as sure as smiling when you flop trips.


+1.

That's never going to work at any table where I play enough to see a trend.  NOBODY will bet against you, meaning unless they bet upstream, you only get the blinds.  You are just a speed bump, not a threat to any of my chips.  And your hands aren't coming around often enough to offest your losses of the ever increasing blinds.

The guys who refuse to bluff or otherwise play without big guns don't last long at our weekly games.  
Link Posted: 6/20/2006 3:55:51 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I got one for you................ Got beat 2 times last night with pocket AcesBoth times onthe river. got them to go all in on the flop. I could not win last night. Full tilt paker is great!!!

Slug-O-Matic



Aces get cracked on the internet all the time.
 Fulltilt is famous for it.  In my experience PartyPoker is the worst people chasing and hitting those 2 outers all the time.




what does this mean?  are they hacking?
Link Posted: 6/20/2006 4:05:17 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I got one for you................ Got beat 2 times last night with pocket AcesBoth times onthe river. got them to go all in on the flop. I could not win last night. Full tilt paker is great!!!

Slug-O-Matic



Aces get cracked on the internet all the time.
 Fulltilt is famous for it.  In my experience PartyPoker is the worst people chasing and hitting those 2 outers all the time.




what does this mean?  are they hacking?




some of the poker sites, just from free games even tend to have a overly large number of bad beats it appears.... Ie several players have monster hands so lots o money in the pot = lots % to the house... just my oberservations though
Link Posted: 6/20/2006 4:09:20 PM EDT
[#20]
ok, that sucks.  which ones are the bad ones and which are probably ok?
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 8:38:08 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
ok, that sucks.  which ones are the bad ones and which are probably ok?



They all have their issues.  just find one where you like the interface and play.  I stick to low stakes because I just like to play and the bad beats don't really hurt the pocketbook so much.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 8:42:25 AM EDT
[#22]
Are we talking about tournament poker or a cash game? Tight play is mostly correct in a cash game (where the blinds are typically quite small relative to the stack sizes) and early in tournaments.

If you are talking about tournament play, it is a very complicated subject. You will usually want to start playing tight, but your style needs to adjust to the constantly changing conditions of the tournament.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 8:51:45 AM EDT
[#23]
a large portion of the time they get blinded out.

in our weekly game (15 players tournament style) the blinds double every 30 minutes.


most of the time they're looking for big slick or pocket pairs, often refusing to play connectors.  

they wait and wait and wait, catch a couple cards, bet, and people fold out.

I'll grind along initially to get a feel for the table, but after the first hour it's time to gamble.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:05:34 AM EDT
[#24]
People who chase two outers are people I want to play against.

In poker your goal shouldn't really be to beat a certain player, but to win the most money.  Usually there are 9-10 people at the table, and focusing on one tight player might cost you money from some of the fish.

Playing against a really tight player is pretty simple to adjust.  If he is on your left or a few seats to your left, you should:
1) Steal from the cutoff on his button as he is likely to fold.
2) Attempt to steal his blinds more often than you would steal against a typical player.

If he is on your right, or across the table respect his open raises and only come in against his raises with very strong hands.  Don't raise him when he limps in unless you have a very strong hand, or to show strength if he gives up often on the flop.  If he is tight on the river value bet less and bluff more.

Guys like this don't lose money by calling along with crap and throwing it away.  Guys like this lose money through missed oppurtunities.  You can taking advantage of this by leveraging them out of pots and preventing them from entering in the first place with timely raises; especially when a big fish is in the hand.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:07:18 AM EDT
[#25]
If you're going to do nothing but grind it out the entire game, you'll lose on the blinds alone. Grinding is a good technique if you want to outlast the first half of the table who will call just about anything. After that, it's a war of attrition with yourself.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:11:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Grinder's make money on limit games.  

But they get in trouble in tourneys and in no limit.

Plus they tend to overplay when they've got good starting hands.

Here's the thing:   Any hand, bet it 6,7o or AK, has only a small chance of "hitting" the flop.  KK, AA, and AK are good because they are usually top pair or provide solid kickers if the board pairs itself.  

You've got to raise them on the flop to see if they really connected.

Supose you limp in with QT.    The grinder raises it up.   Reraise his ass preflop.   If he calls or reraises you, then he's probably holding a pocket pair.   Use your instincts and read him to see if you want to pay more for the flop.  

WHen the flop comes, unles there's an Ace or a King showing, go ahead and raise.   If he's not hit, he'll likely fold out.   Raise a LOT if you've connected with a set or a high flush draw.  

Check it all the way home post flop if you flop a boat or an ace high flush.   He'll bet hard on the turn and river usually, and you'll get paid nicely.  

I played a group of folks who were all very very tight folks.   I wound up soaking up most of the blinds, and would frequently steal the blinds and the bets of a limper or two just be preflop raising.

Got really boring.   THe good players will loosen up their play a bit.   The "mechanical" grinders will simply keep losing their blinds.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:18:22 AM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
thats how you play it, My friends hate me when i fold everytime until I get a very good cards and i will go ahead and play along with the flop ...

after that, If i know i can beat them , I will play the hand ..

if i cant, I wil N O T play the hand cuz you arent robbing my money bitch !



Play like that and I will own you.

It is a tell just as sure as smiling when you flop trips.


+1.

That's never going to work at any table where I play enough to see a trend.  NOBODY will bet against you, meaning unless they bet upstream, you only get the blinds.  You are just a speed bump, not a threat to any of my chips.  And your hands aren't coming around often enough to offest your losses of the ever increasing blinds.

The guys who refuse to bluff or otherwise play without big guns don't last long at our weekly games.  



I don't play much anymore, but this is my experience, too.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:21:59 AM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:
you know, how do you beat the grinder? [the guy who folds every round until he has a pair]

these guys are nearly unstoppable! how do you stop it!



Respect his calls and raises, and become one yourself.  Hold a higher pair.  In general, a good grinder will make it through a table of 6 but the last couple of opponents will eat his lunch if he isn't careful.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:39:04 AM EDT
[#29]
For tight players I think one of the better strategies is to use a nice suited connector (like 8,9 or 10,J).  Limp in pre-flop and see if you can hit the flop or at least get close to a straight/flush.  Not only do you have a lot of potential options to break a pair, but many of them are not that obvious, especially to amatuer players.  A tight player who sees an Ace on the flop and is holding Kings or lower may balk and fold, but if he only sees a 6,7, and 10 on the board he may not see the straight coming.  Also sets you up nice for a semi-bluff if you get two additional cards of your suit on the flop.  If the player is real tight, you can go all in and force him to sweat whether you get another suited card on the turn or river.  

But, I don't pretend to be the biggest expert on poker, so YMMV.  What I do think is helpful is looking at some of those poker shows and finding a player who's style you think is a close match to your own and seeing what kind of cards they play.  I tend to be conservative so I don 't think a Matasow strategy would work for me.  However, I do like watching someone like Farhah or Greenstein and see what kinds of hands work for them.

Edited to add: Of course, the best is when you go in on the suited connector and get two-pair when the cards are otherwise crap.  If you have 8,9 and the cards come up 8,2,9,4,K, a guy holding Aces isn't going to see it coming a mile away.  That's when you take his whole stack.

Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:41:31 AM EDT
[#30]
This is the easiest question in the world. F*CK HIM BACK

Fold EVERYTIME he makes a bet.

Tell him you can grind down his shit too. Then ask him if he is ready to play some POKER!!!
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:43:34 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
This is the easiest question in the world. F*CK HIM BACK

Fold EVERYTIME he makes a bet.

Tell him you can grind down his shit too. Then ask him if he is ready to play some POKER!!!



btw - it helps if you have a decent to good hand when you make this call. That way you can play off his ego and force him to bet. His mind is off thinking you just wanna play, not that at that given moment you have a good hand. Then on the river you POYAH his ass.
Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:55:39 AM EDT
[#32]


Well, I'll tell you because I used to play too tight too often in hold'em.  The best way to spank me was to raise me out of the pot preflop and then keep raising or betting above the odds of drawing hands hitting (assuming no limit).

Most of the time I would fold pre-flop, but when I had a drawin hand, I would do the math.  If the bet or raise was a % higher than the odds of me getting my straight or flush, I would usually fold.  

Of course I could occaissionaly spank aggressive players, but the good ones could back down before I raped them.

Link Posted: 6/21/2006 9:58:24 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

There is no method of playing poker that is 100%, if there was people wouldn't play for money



no dought that it is gambling, im just interested in loss prevention



Don't gamble.
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