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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 12/31/2006 9:52:20 AM EST
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 9:55:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater


How are they going to get around all the kooky california gun laws?
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 9:56:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater


How are they going to get around all the kooky california gun laws?


Ignore them like everyone else

I think defense contractors get a pass.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 9:58:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater


How are they going to get around all the kooky california gun laws?


Those laws only apply to serfs and peasants.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 10:11:34 AM EST
Darn. I was misled. I thought the Bush Administration was sending Blackwater out to "reform" the California government.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 10:13:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By 4v50:
Darn. I was misled. I thought the Bush Administration was sending Blackwater out to "reform" the California government.


And here I was hoping Maxine Waters was leaving.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 7:00:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By 4v50:
Darn. I was misled. I thought the Bush Administration was sending Blackwater out to "reform" the California government.


And here I was hoping Maxine Waters was leaving.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 7:06:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By 4v50:
Darn. I was misled. I thought the Bush Administration was sending Blackwater out to "reform" the California government.


And here I was hoping Maxine Waters was leaving.



excellent
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 7:38:28 AM EST
RAVENWOOD?
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 10:50:19 AM EST
I read that article too!

My guess is they're rich enough to have the necessary pull to get all the necessary permits from DOJ.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 10:55:22 AM EST
I hear they're great in concert.

Seriously though, doesn't the title sound like some kind of rock band?
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 10:58:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Silesius:
I hear they're great in concert.

Seriously though, doesn't the title sound like some kind of rock band?


I thought it had to do with the state falling into the ocean.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:00:49 AM EST
North, west and SE locations.

Damn they are getting big.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:01:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By 338winmag:

Originally Posted By Silesius:
I hear they're great in concert.

Seriously though, doesn't the title sound like some kind of rock band?


I thought it had to do with the state falling into the ocean.

And we have a winner of the Ant Burner statement of the day!
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:02:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:13:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater


That area is pretty much BFE. State routes 94 and 188 shown aren't exactly major thoroughfares. I'm a bit west of Escondido shown. That drive, without traffic, will probably take an 1.5 to 2 hours. Ofcourse, to get 842 acres you've got to buy in that kindof area. On the upside it'll probably be an excellent training facility for Middle East bound Blackwater employees.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:17:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater

Look it up on Google maps. It appears to be an old chicken ranch. (The kind with feathers not prostitutes).
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:17:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater


How are they going to get around all the kooky california gun laws?


Ignore them like everyone else

I think defense contractors get a pass.


Nope.

Active on duty military and on duty cops are th only exemptions.

Anyone travelling to Cali to take a Carbine course and bringing an AW or hicaps into the state to do it is breaking the AW laws here. there is a competition exemption for out of staters but training clases do not apply.

You are correct that its commonly ignored by the trainers and their students.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:20:23 AM EST
Old black water, keep on rollin'.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:30:32 AM EST
Getting ready to provide security during the NK invasion?
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:41:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater


How are they going to get around all the kooky california gun laws?


Ignore them like everyone else

I think defense contractors get a pass.


Defense contractors absolutely do not get a pass in CA. Starting with the poseur fucktard that ran Surgical Shooting Inc. (Gary Lakis). Lakis had a contract to provide watchstander force protection courses, etc. to the USN. Contract required the contractor provide 'semiautomatic M16-type' and 'semiautomatic M14-type' rifles for the sailors to use in training. Lakis ran AR-15s into San Diego from out-of-state and got caught. California did not give two shits about his USN contract and he's a fugitive from justice.

Last year the USN tried to issue a contract for crew-served weapons training (Mk 46 and Mk 49 machine guns) in Norfolk VA and San Diego CA that was absolutely impossible to do in CA (and frankly, impossible to do in VA unless BATFE decided to let an SOT 07 get by with weekly, multiple gun "demonstrations".

And a BW training center would be no different. BW could have no "assault weapons" and no 'high-capacity magazines" unless they became CA licensed "assault weapons" dealers and CA licensed "high-capacity magazine" dealers, as well as an FFL. They could only sell these items to government agencies and (maybe) to LEO (under letterhead). Could they use them for on-premises training? Major grey area. Could they use a CA entertainment permit like a movie prop house? Major grey area. COuld CA shut them down on a whim? Yup.

CA resident non-government and non-LEO course attendees could only have CA approved handgun and long-arms. Persons who were not residents of CA might be able to take their 'assault weapon' and non-CA registered handguns to a CA BW training center under California Penal Code 12280(m) if CA DOJ considers a training course to be a 'competitive match'.

Unless BW thinks that all their customers will be government in CA.

Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:42:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
It will probably be a real nice training center, does anyone know the area? is it desert?

blackwater


It's high desert.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 11:53:38 AM EST
Something strange here, but NOT in a tinfoil way.

Ill and Ca, 2 of the most antigun states are where BW opens up new gigs.

I look forward to BW opening up a Northern branch butting up to Adirondak Park!
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 12:00:37 PM EST
When I read the title, I thought of black-water, as in sewage from an RV... what a crappy name for a company

interesting info though

Morcoth
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 12:36:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Persons who were not residents of CA might be able to take their 'assault weapon' and non-CA registered handguns to a CA BW training center under California Penal Code 12280(m) if CA DOJ considers a training course to be a 'competitive match'.


Nope. The match requirements are specific and only include directly to an from. for example, a NRA/Highpower shooter from Arizona could drive straight to Camp pendelton, shoot the match, then drive straight back to Arizona. But if he decided to stay the night in San Diego before returning he loses the proptections of the competition exemption.

The "shoot offs" between students in tactical firearms courses do not meet the requirements for competitions. The would have to be sanctioned competitions by someone like DCM/CMP or NRA to fall underthe competition exemption.

I think blackwater is hoping to get lots of active duty military and police officers as students. with a few (Cali)preban AR owners.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 2:29:34 PM EST
Oh boy another time to just come out and say:

FUCK CALIFORNIA
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 3:54:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Persons who were not residents of CA might be able to take their 'assault weapon' and non-CA registered handguns to a CA BW training center under California Penal Code 12280(m) if CA DOJ considers a training course to be a 'competitive match'.



I think blackwater is hoping to get lots of active duty military and police officers as students. with a few (Cali)preban AR owners.


yeah but dont you think they will use it as a NTC for contractors heading over to the sand box?
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 5:36:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Persons who were not residents of CA might be able to take their 'assault weapon' and non-CA registered handguns to a CA BW training center under California Penal Code 12280(m) if CA DOJ considers a training course to be a 'competitive match'.



I think blackwater is hoping to get lots of active duty military and police officers as students. with a few (Cali)preban AR owners.


yeah but dont you think they will use it as a NTC for contractors heading over to the sand box?


Companies spend money on training that isn't directly billable to their contracts? Maybe in an alternate reality!

For 90%+ of security 'contractors', the first "training' from the company they work for they get is the first IED or ambush (even BW, except for the 'candidates' that pay to go through their 'academy').

I've spent three years putting together one pre-deployment training /assessment program after another, only to have hem canceled by the bean-counters.

Its business. In business you spend money only when its directly profitable, otherwise its charity.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 5:44:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Persons who were not residents of CA might be able to take their 'assault weapon' and non-CA registered handguns to a CA BW training center under California Penal Code 12280(m) if CA DOJ considers a training course to be a 'competitive match'.



I think blackwater is hoping to get lots of active duty military and police officers as students. with a few (Cali)preban AR owners.


yeah but dont you think they will use it as a NTC for contractors heading over to the sand box?


The reason you hire a "contractor" is because they are already experienced. If you're going to train somebody up you might as well hire somebody off the street.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 3:55:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2007 3:56:37 AM EST by ODA_564]

Originally Posted By ScoutOut:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Persons who were not residents of CA might be able to take their 'assault weapon' and non-CA registered handguns to a CA BW training center under California Penal Code 12280(m) if CA DOJ considers a training course to be a 'competitive match'.



I think blackwater is hoping to get lots of active duty military and police officers as students. with a few (Cali)preban AR owners.


yeah but dont you think they will use it as a NTC for contractors heading over to the sand box?


The reason you hire a "contractor" is because they are already experienced. If you're going to train somebody up you might as well hire somebody off the street.


Sorry,compadre.

First, its only a few companies that 'vet'(check out) their personnel. Lots of "SEAL Marine SF Rangers" get through on the lower tier companies. And when the 'kewl guy' company of the week starts getting big contracts all that 'hand-selected Tier 1' stuff goes out the window when they need 200 guys next week. Then the 'hand-selected Tier 1' guys leave. There are only a limited number of 'kewl guys'.

Secondly, being a former Team guy (SEAL) or former SF guy doesn't mean you are trained and proficent in the work required by your employer's contract.

Third, throwing together highly trained and experienced people form disparate backgrounds (like an former Ranger BAT boy, a former SEAL and two former Polish GROM guys, equipped with ARs they'd never zeroed) and then sending them out with no time to train together, work up SOPs, or rehearse does not work. And yes, that's based on the 2004 Route Irish BW ambush. The GROM guys died like heroes, but that doesn't change the facts.

Fourth, the PMCs are businesses. There are major differences between a special mission unit or SEAL team or SF ODA and a business. After a PMC makes the transition to being run as a business its all about the bottom line. If a PMC bids out a contract with 15 guys and 3 soft-skinned vehicles and then the situation changes two months into the job and the situation requires 20 guys and 6 hard (armored) vehicles, there is only two choices. 1. ask the client for more money or 2. keep doing it with what you have.

I had a friend in that situation. They needed another hard SUV and their employer had no money to make it happen. I suggested that each man on the 10 man detail take a $10K pay cut to free up the $100K for the hard SUV. Didn't happen. End of the day, its business. The company fired two guys, bought another hard SUV, started replacing the US guys with Iraqis (using the US guys to give the Iraquis a short train up) and hired another manager. Good business, bad tactics.

Watch the BW wrongful death lawsuit. The outcome will rock the industry.

And hire guys off the street? Like Guats and Ugandans? That's the trend.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 8:03:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By ODA_564:

Originally Posted By ScoutOut:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Persons who were not residents of CA might be able to take their 'assault weapon' and non-CA registered handguns to a CA BW training center under California Penal Code 12280(m) if CA DOJ considers a training course to be a 'competitive match'.



I think blackwater is hoping to get lots of active duty military and police officers as students. with a few (Cali)preban AR owners.


yeah but dont you think they will use it as a NTC for contractors heading over to the sand box?


The reason you hire a "contractor" is because they are already experienced. If you're going to train somebody up you might as well hire somebody off the street.


Sorry,compadre.

First, its only a few companies that 'vet'(check out) their personnel. Lots of "SEAL Marine SF Rangers" get through on the lower tier companies. And when the 'kewl guy' company of the week starts getting big contracts all that 'hand-selected Tier 1' stuff goes out the window when they need 200 guys next week. Then the 'hand-selected Tier 1' guys leave. There are only a limited number of 'kewl guys'.

Secondly, being a former Team guy (SEAL) or former SF guy doesn't mean you are trained and proficent in the work required by your employer's contract.

Third, throwing together highly trained and experienced people form disparate backgrounds (like an former Ranger BAT boy, a former SEAL and two former Polish GROM guys, equipped with ARs they'd never zeroed) and then sending them out with no time to train together, work up SOPs, or rehearse does not work. And yes, that's based on the 2004 Route Irish BW ambush. The GROM guys died like heroes, but that doesn't change the facts.

Fourth, the PMCs are businesses. There are major differences between a special mission unit or SEAL team or SF ODA and a business. After a PMC makes the transition to being run as a business its all about the bottom line. If a PMC bids out a contract with 15 guys and 3 soft-skinned vehicles and then the situation changes two months into the job and the situation requires 20 guys and 6 hard (armored) vehicles, there is only two choices. 1. ask the client for more money or 2. keep doing it with what you have.

I had a friend in that situation. They needed another hard SUV and their employer had no money to make it happen. I suggested that each man on the 10 man detail take a $10K pay cut to free up the $100K for the hard SUV. Didn't happen. End of the day, its business. The company fired two guys, bought another hard SUV, started replacing the US guys with Iraqis (using the US guys to give the Iraquis a short train up) and hired another manager. Good business, bad tactics.

Watch the BW wrongful death lawsuit. The outcome will rock the industry.

And hire guys off the street? Like Guats and Ugandans? That's the trend.


well put, i'm no expert but there are always a need for more training! most skills are very perishable!
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 8:24:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
North, west and SE locations.

Damn they are getting big.


You should go to their main campus in NC.

The place seems to double in size every time I go there.
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