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Posted: 8/29/2004 9:27:54 AM EST
Its my first year but I am going in as a MS3 because I am prior service Guard (only 1 year)

I am actually kinda nervous just because the other cadets have had 2 years ROTC experience and I am just jumping in.

Well hopefully It will work out well?

by the way is it best to just wear your uniform for the class then change that way you don't have to wear it all day? Do most people do that?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:32:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:52:25 AM EST
thanks for the tips,

its always good to remind me to keep my mouth shut!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:56:20 AM EST
Where are you?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:08:39 AM EST
CA
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:11:18 AM EST

Very first day of class, find the biggest guy there, and kick his ass. Or, become someone's bitch.


Oh, wait....maybe that's prison I'm thinking of.

Seriously, good luck, and work hard.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:17:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
CA



You got nothing to worry about - if the other foilks who did MS I and II learned anything - it is nothing you can't pick up right away.

Kick ass at land nav and PT - support the student leadership and take charge when in charge. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:19:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
CA



You got nothing to worry about - if the other foilks who did MS I and II learned anything - it is nothing you can't pick up right away.

Kick ass at land nav and PT - support the student leadership and take charge when in charge. Good luck.



What officers doing land nav?? Nah you won't see in of that
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:22:14 AM EST
Uniforms to the cleaners -"extra heavy starch".
Most ROTC folks you see walking around on a college campus, look like bags of shit.
Look sharp, set the example.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:25:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:26:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Uniforms to the cleaners -"extra heavy starch".
Most ROTC folks you see walking around on a college campus, look like bags of shit.
Look sharp, set the example.




+1

Dont look like a duffel bag spit you out!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:29:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Uniforms to the cleaners -"extra heavy starch".
Most ROTC folks you see walking around on a college campus, look like bags of shit.
Look sharp, set the example.



since your prior service, you will probably have some awards on your uniform that others won't have, also a unit patch.

Maybe you will also get ot wear a beret while they are wearing cunt caps!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:32:34 AM EST
I got a great idea walk into your first rotc class about 10 min late and report in "Cadet Kerry Reporting for duty" with a left handed salute.

PS make sure its no where near a good salute, for tips see pics of John kerrys salute where the finger tips are at your forehead.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:44:34 AM EST
...and don't EVER walk around with a civilian backpack on your shoulder(s). (blue, red, etc...)
Briefcase or tactical.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:57:57 AM EST
Always remember the best leaders in the military or cilvilian world always stick up for their people!!

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:59:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
...and don't EVER walk around with a civilian backpack on your shoulder(s). (blue, red, etc...)
Briefcase or tactical.



I had always remembered the Navy ROTC guys always carrying a briefcase or bag. Why weren't they suppose to carry a backpack? Is that only in uniform?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:02:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Uniforms to the cleaners -"extra heavy starch".
Most ROTC folks you see walking around on a college campus, look like bags of shit.
Look sharp, set the example.



since your prior service, you will probably have some awards on your uniform that others won't have, also a unit patch.

Maybe you will also get ot wear a beret while they are wearing cunt caps!



Bad idea. Mak762, you show an absolute lack of understanding of military culture.

Wear the prescribed cadet uniform when told. If in Class A's - wear your Army Service, National Defense ribbons - or your cadet shit - but don't combine them.

Don't go out of the way to try to act special - you aren't. Odds are good there are other cadets there with a lot more time in then you - including many combat vets. If you have experince that makes you "better" - show it in practice in the field, not with your mouth or by declaring yourself to good for the uniform.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:03:47 AM EST
should have gone OCS you can tell the differeance in quality between ROTC

me personaly the best officers I know have been lower enlisted and NCOs then officers
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:05:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
...and don't EVER walk around with a civilian backpack on your shoulder(s). (blue, red, etc...)
Briefcase or tactical.



Army regulation since ~2000 now allows a black backpack. Personally, I think it should be brown, but such is life - besides black is easy to find. It sure has made gricery shopping easier in places where nobody has cars, though.

Marines around here have to even slip their camelbaks off when they get near the main roads - you guys are ruthless!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:36:52 AM EST
Don't worry guys I am not going to try to act special and wear a different uniform.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:37:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
...and don't EVER walk around with a civilian backpack on your shoulder(s). (blue, red, etc...)
Briefcase or tactical.



Army regulation since ~2000 now allows a black backpack. Personally, I think it should be brown, but such is life - besides black is easy to find. It sure has made gricery shopping easier in places where nobody has cars, though.




Was there a rule before that you couldn't wear a backpack? How about in civilian cloths?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:56:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
...and don't EVER walk around with a civilian backpack on your shoulder(s). (blue, red, etc...)
Briefcase or tactical.



Army regulation since ~2000 now allows a black backpack. Personally, I think it should be brown, but such is life - besides black is easy to find. It sure has made gricery shopping easier in places where nobody has cars, though.




Was there a rule before that you couldn't wear a backpack? How about in civilian cloths?



It used to be if you wanted to wear a backpack, you has to use your ruck sack - this was only while in uniform. I still remember lugging a heavy backopack around, both on base as a private and later in campus as a cadet, while being unable to sling it up on a shoulder per the regulations.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:38:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
...and don't EVER walk around with a civilian backpack on your shoulder(s). (blue, red, etc...)
Briefcase or tactical.



I had always remembered the Navy ROTC guys always carrying a briefcase or bag. Why weren't they suppose to carry a backpack? Is that only in uniform?



'Cause using the straps on a backpack is against the uniform wear rules, so you get something that is easier to carry with one hand.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:28:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Mak762:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
...and don't EVER walk around with a civilian backpack on your shoulder(s). (blue, red, etc...)
Briefcase or tactical.



I had always remembered the Navy ROTC guys always carrying a briefcase or bag. Why weren't they suppose to carry a backpack? Is that only in uniform?



'Cause using the straps on a backpack is against the uniform wear rules, so you get something that is easier to carry with one hand.



yeah I can understand that, some soldier is walking around in BDU's with a pink backpack
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:45:13 PM EST
Get good at not laughing, watch HBO specials of Comedians and try ot hold it in.

May sound odd but instilling proper bearing is the primary benefit of the ROTC system, they will bust you for smiling, giggling, having a slackjaw yawn etc... Its one of the things that they usually have a lot of explicit permission to PT you for.

The older cadets in charge are not above making you laugh either...

When I was in AFROTC they stood us at ATTENTION to check for bearing, basically made us stand there as they went around asking basic questions, commenting on uniforms, commenting on DNC performance etc. One of my friends made the mistake of snickering a little as the Cadet Wing Commander walked by...

The Cadet Wing Commander backtracked and asked him if he was laughing at him, to which he wisely responded "No Sir" then the Cadet Wing commander went tthrough a perfect rendition of Al Pacino's "Are you laughing at me, what do I look like some sort of Clown" soliliqouy... the etntire time my friend looked like he was gonna lose it, by the end he was redfaced biting his tongue with tears in his eyes but he didnt laugh... The Cadet Wing Commander was suitably impressed and finished up...

Now the Cadet Wing Commander was an Intense character, he had great Bearing and the lower ranked cadets never ever saw him do anything but put out a stern command presence. Just as he was getting ready to step away he turned back and put his hands to ears started wiggling his fingers while going "blibbidy-blibbidly-boo".

That was too much, my friend bust out laughing and nearly fell on the floor, as did nearly half of the wing... the rest of us giggled or snickered but did our best to control it...

Too little too late, The entire rest of that Leadership lab was spent doing PT.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:51:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Get good at not laughing, watch HBO specials of Comedians and try ot hold it in.

May sound odd but instilling proper bearing is the primary benefit of the ROTC system, they will bust you for smiling, giggling, having a slackjaw yawn etc... Its one of the things that they usually have a lot of explicit permission to PT you for.

The older cadets in charge are not above making you laugh either...

When I was in AFROTC they stood us at ATTENTION to check for bearing, basically made us stand there as they went around asking basic questions, commenting on uniforms, commenting on DNC performance etc. One of my friends made the mistake of snickering a little as the Cadet Wing Commander walked by...

The Cadet Wing Commander backtracked and asked him if he was laughing at him, to which he wisely responded "No Sir" then the Cadet Wing commander went tthrough a perfect rendition of Al Pacino's "Are you laughing at me, what do I look like some sort of Clown" soliliqouy... the etntire time my friend looked like he was gonna lose it, by the end he was redfaced biting his tongue with tears in his eyes but he didnt laugh... The Cadet Wing Commander was suitably impressed and finished up...

Now the Cadet Wing Commander was an Intense character, he had great Bearing and the lower ranked cadets never ever saw him do anything but put out a stern command presence. Just as he was getting ready to step away he turned back and put his hands to ears started wiggling his fingers while going "blibbidy-blibbidly-boo".

That was too much, my friend bust out laughing and nearly fell on the floor, as did nearly half of the wing... the rest of us giggled or snickered but did our best to control it...

Too little too late, The entire rest of that Leadership lab was spent doing PT.



Wow - sounds eerily similar to the stories I hear from the Airmen here about room inspections and needing to have their clothes folded in perfect 6 inch by 6 inch squares. The AF has its odd things to pass the time away.

Army ROTC only has so many hours of training available - I doubt they would waste a lab - normally dedicated to land nav, first aid, patrolling, etc - doing a smoke session. That's what PT is for.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:09:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
should have gone OCS you can tell the differeance in quality between ROTC

me personaly the best officers I know have been lower enlisted and NCOs then officers



How you get your bars is immaterial. What you do with them is what counts.

Having said that, I've sat on OCS selection boards as a Captain in the 101st, and I would have had NO problems following any of the NCO's (and a Warrant officer) who came up before us. OCS only provides a few though. The numbers filled by OCS depends on how many from the other sources were commisioned. Between USMA (20%) and ROTC (75%) there usually isn't much left over for OCS numbers wise.

I enlisted at 17, and went to ROTC. About a third of my class in college were prior service. Those numbers reflect in the active community. I didn't notice much difference in anyone from the other commisioning sources. What matters is how you soldier, not where you're from.

Ross
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:20:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ross:

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
should have gone OCS you can tell the differeance in quality between ROTC

me personaly the best officers I know have been lower enlisted and NCOs then officers



How you get your bars is immaterial. What you do with them is what counts.

Having said that, I've sat on OCS selection boards as a Captain in the 101st, and I would have had NO problems following any of the NCO's (and a Warrant officer) who came up before us. OCS only provides a few though. The numbers filled by OCS depends on how many from the other sources were commisioned. Between USMA (20%) and ROTC (75%) there usually isn't much left over for OCS numbers wise.

I enlisted at 17, and went to ROTC. About a third of my class in college were prior service. Those numbers reflect in the active community. I didn't notice much difference in anyone from the other commisioning sources. What matters is how you soldier, not where you're from.

Ross



Wow - somehow I missed that post.

Considering that anybody with a degree can enlist to go stright to OCS after Basic, I am not sure if the guy even knows what he is talking about. There are plenty of prior service guys in ROTC, and plenty in OCS - but also plenty in both with Zero prior military experience.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:23:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Its my first year but I am going in as a MS3 because I am prior service Guard (only 1 year)

I am actually kinda nervous just because the other cadets have had 2 years ROTC experience and I am just jumping in.

Well hopefully It will work out well?

by the way is it best to just wear your uniform for the class then change that way you don't have to wear it all day? Do most people do that?



You'll do fine. Look good, and know your stuff. It's as simple as that. Frankly, on the miiltary scale of difficulty, ROTC was pretty easy. Don't slack off, but they don't do much in MSI and MSII because there's no contract during that time. You'll know as much or more, and there will be plenty that know more than you, but that's the way of life, isn't it?

I would wear the uniform or change depending on my class schedule. I never had any problems with liberals or anything in or out uniform. I went to SJSU in San Jose CA, so it wasn't Berkley, but a liberal school none-the-less. If someone gives you a hard time, point out that it's better to have officers come from schools like your's, rather than all from West Point, because our Army (unlike many others) is all about refelcting society, not controlling it. Some won't get it, but others will.

Ross
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:48:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 2:49:20 PM EST by Garand_Shooter]
Don't sweat not takin MS I & II, I took those when I was in almost exactly your shoes and was bored to tears.... got straigh A's without even trying. Then I deceided I didn't want to pursue getting a commission, partly because I wanted more control over what I ended up doing and for some other reasons.

Fast foward 11 years, and now I am a WO1 playing the new junior officer game just the same(kinda)... go figure.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:24:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ross:

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
should have gone OCS you can tell the differeance in quality between ROTC

me personaly the best officers I know have been lower enlisted and NCOs then officers



How you get your bars is immaterial. What you do with them is what counts.

Having said that, I've sat on OCS selection boards as a Captain in the 101st, and I would have had NO problems following any of the NCO's (and a Warrant officer) who came up before us. OCS only provides a few though. The numbers filled by OCS depends on how many from the other sources were commisioned. Between USMA (20%) and ROTC (75%) there usually isn't much left over for OCS numbers wise.
look how many schools there is for each. not every post is a training post for OCS and How many USMAs are out there and schools that offer ROTC area dime a dozen and each porduces a different result.

I enlisted at 17, and went to ROTC. About a third of my class in college were prior service. Those numbers reflect in the active community. I didn't notice much difference in anyone from the other commisioning sources. What matters is how you soldier, not where you're from.

Ross



so a community college student is the same a a Yale? or a Harvard? I agree an Ossifer is what he makes of himself. butter bars I respect like any other private. O2s I respect more and are still one of the guys O3 move further and further away from knowing whats really going on. O4 is make it or break it. and as they say fuck up move up. My CO in Iraq was the biggest waste of energy it took to concieve him. He was socially inept. He could not make a 10 minute brief without 68 "ahhhs" 42 "and-ummms", and 12 "what im trying to say is"s, and yes we counted and had a pool where I lost because i guessed too low. He was also the out batalions school finace officer who was notorious for fucking it up and kids not getting paid for college. and now he is a Major in batalion doing the same bullshit micromanaging. a 5 year old could have made better decisions than he did. guess where he came from. you know the good ol boy club where your grader wont give you the report you deserve but a report that is all good no matter what. when we returned from theater we had a 11 page survery on our expierance I turned in 14 with supporting references to documents. I praised the ones who did a good job and drilled the shit bags. aparently a whole companies worth for statements is worth a grain of salt.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:38:23 PM EST
Just finished ROTC and was commissioned. Don't worry about MS I and II year. Learn your cadet rank, all the crap they make you learn as a three and practice good soldier skills. In CA I don't know about labs and uniforms. One of our instructors who came from CA told us that the campus attitude was such they weren't allowed to wear uniforms on campus. Call your superiors by the appropriate title and act professionally. Kick butt at PT and don't slack. Be a go to guy, willing to volunteer for extra stuff and take charge when your squad leader is absent (happens alot in a scholastic setting). Be prepared for leadership roles as a III. Get with your evaluator early in leadership rotation and ask what he/she is looking for when they are evaluting you. And do remember what it felt like as a recruit in basic and try to help the MS Is and IIs out. They don't know what they're doing and look to you. Also no matter what anybody says you are going to be an officer same as USMA and OBC graduates, perform on par with them and there will be no problems. E-mail me with questions, good luck
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:50:22 PM EST
I don't know why you guys are wasting his time with all this BS.

The only thing you need to remember is to "shower with a raincoat". Do that and you'll get through with no problems whatsoever.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:58:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:


The only thing you need to remember is to "shower with a raincoat". Do that and you'll get through with no problems whatsoever.



whats that mean?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:10:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By mike45acp:

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
The only thing you need to remember is to "shower with a raincoat". Do that and you'll get through with no problems whatsoever.


whats that mean?


Google is your friend
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:30:44 PM EST
so hes suppose to use a rubber? Thats what google said!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:46:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By mike45acp:
so hes suppose to use a rubber? Thats what google said!



I guess he's trying to tell him to "enjoy" his college years while they last.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:02:53 PM EST

look how many schools there is for each. not every post is a training post for OCS and How many USMAs are out there and schools that offer ROTC area dime a dozen and each porduces a different result.


There's only one OCS for the regular Army, at Benning. There's only one USMA at West Point, NY. So I don't get where you're coming up with multiple OCSs and USMAs. I think in the end, we're saying the same thing here though, that most officers come from ROTC, whether you like them or not.

The thing about the commisioning source is none of them know their jobs at all until they get through OBC, and that's the same service school for everyone of that branch. It won't matter where 1911greg gets his bars, he will be going through OBC with guys from USMA and OCS. OBC should train them to standard. There will still be guys on top and guys on the bottom, but there won't be much difference between 1911greg and a guy with a couple years in as enlisted. Just because a guy was a great finance clerk, doesn't mean he's going to be a great tank platoon leader. What matters is what that guy learns in school and especially what he learns after school in his unit. If the 2LT learned as an Enlisted man HOW to learn, he can do the same without the prior service. If the guy's a rock head and isn't going to learn anything from an NCO, proir service isn't going to change that. He's still a rock head.


so a community college student is the same a a Yale? or a Harvard? I agree an Ossifer is what he makes of himself.

What matters is what a man does, not where his sheepskin was from.

Your unit leadership sucks because it sucks from the top down. If it's a reserve component unit, I doubt it will ever change. Even if it was an active unit, I doubt it will ever change. Shit draws flies. Get your ass out of that unit and into one that actually has some leadership. Good units draw good people. There's no reason to hang out with dirtbags unless you like to.

We've all been in units that sucked and units that didn't. The difference was the leadership. That leadership came from many sources. It doesn't matter what the source. What matters is what that leader does.

Ross
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:11:40 AM EST
yeah i get what he was saying about the raincoat thing,

You got to go with the flow and experience things yourself, thats the whole point.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:20:58 AM EST
do not lie, cheat, or steal
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:39:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 10:41:04 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Get good at not laughing, watch HBO specials of Comedians and try ot hold it in.

May sound odd but instilling proper bearing is the primary benefit of the ROTC system, they will bust you for smiling, giggling, having a slackjaw yawn etc... Its one of the things that they usually have a lot of explicit permission to PT you for.

The older cadets in charge are not above making you laugh either...

When I was in AFROTC they stood us at ATTENTION to check for bearing, basically made us stand there as they went around asking basic questions, commenting on uniforms, commenting on DNC performance etc. One of my friends made the mistake of snickering a little as the Cadet Wing Commander walked by...

The Cadet Wing Commander backtracked and asked him if he was laughing at him, to which he wisely responded "No Sir" then the Cadet Wing commander went tthrough a perfect rendition of Al Pacino's "Are you laughing at me, what do I look like some sort of Clown" soliliqouy... the etntire time my friend looked like he was gonna lose it, by the end he was redfaced biting his tongue with tears in his eyes but he didnt laugh... The Cadet Wing Commander was suitably impressed and finished up...

Now the Cadet Wing Commander was an Intense character, he had great Bearing and the lower ranked cadets never ever saw him do anything but put out a stern command presence. Just as he was getting ready to step away he turned back and put his hands to ears started wiggling his fingers while going "blibbidy-blibbidly-boo".

That was too much, my friend bust out laughing and nearly fell on the floor, as did nearly half of the wing... the rest of us giggled or snickered but did our best to control it...

Too little too late, The entire rest of that Leadership lab was spent doing PT.



Wow - sounds eerily similar to the stories I hear from the Airmen here about room inspections and needing to have their clothes folded in perfect 6 inch by 6 inch squares. The AF has its odd things to pass the time away.

Army ROTC only has so many hours of training available - I doubt they would waste a lab - normally dedicated to land nav, first aid, patrolling, etc - doing a smoke session. That's what PT is for.



AFROTC scheduled PT is (or was, back in 1998) 'voluntary'. They only were allowed to require 1hr a day, 2 days a week of 'lab' plus 1hr of classroom time... Plus, AFROTC 'lab' was mainly drill, bearing, and procedure - you could tell what was going to happen by uniform orders (PT uniform on drill day -> whole-wing PT, or smoke session) - or the occasional 'scenario problem' (crash in the woods/on the moon/etc, this stuff survives, what do you do/take... Cannibals & Missionaries, etc)...

I left the program eventually, figuring I'd do better going thru school first & applying for OCS later. I'm at the 'apply for OCS later' part right now...
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