so who still thinks birdshot is good enough for home defence?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - so who still thinks birdshot is good enough for home defence? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 2/7/2006 4:58:14 PM EDT

article

PROCTOR, Ark. - A 94-year-old man who accidentally shot himself in the abdomen while cleaning his shotgun is expected to make a full recovery, despite waiting until the next morning to ask for help.

...

Sturghill waited for a home health care nurse to arrive about 8:30 a.m. Monday before asking for medical attention.

Before the nurse arrived, Sturghill had cleaned the wound and wrapped it with a towel, Martin said.

Posted: 2/7/2006 4:59:42 PM EDT

[#1]

Damn! Glad it's gonna buff out. Damn pesky bird shot!

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:01:24 PM EDT

[#2]

Hopefully nobody did, and to head off any debates:

Pistol worst, medium ammo amount, least accurate (not shoulder fired), least powerful
Shotgun better, limited ammo, larger recoil, shoulder fired
Rifle best, more ammo, faster follow up shots, shoulder fired

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:01:30 PM EDT

[#3]

20 ga. is the 9mm of shotguns

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:01:47 PM EDT

[#4]

Worked for me.

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:03:32 PM EDT

[#5]

Nobody is getting up after being hit with #7 out of my Ithaca M&P.

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:05:33 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
20 ga. is the 9mm of shotguns

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:06:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
20 ga. is the 9mm of shotguns

alot of the 20gauge loads are the same weight as 12gauge loads in a smaller package

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:07:50 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
20 ga. is the 9mm of shotguns

alot of the 20gauge loads are the same weight as 12gauge loads in a smaller package

Same goes for 9mm and .357 mag.

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:08:34 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
20 ga. is the 9mm of shotguns

alot of the 20gauge loads are the same weight as 12gauge loads in a smaller package

Same goes for 9mm and .357 mag.

Pwnt

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:10:19 PM EDT

[#10]

See #1 below of the top three stupid questions that I am sick of answering.

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:27:24 PM EDT

[#11]

I know of a guy that through a series of stupid moves while out riding the roads jack lighting deer { my surmise } managed to get shot with a Brenneke slug through the thigh, exited and then up into his abdomen and the slug ended up lodged next to his spine. He lived. When I met him at a gun range the slug was still in him and they had a tube draining his back. He was about to go in for some more surgery.

There is always a miracle. For the defensive shotgun I have a graduated loading. 7.5, 7.5, Turkey #4, Turkey #4. 00 at the ready.
rj

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:29:50 PM EDT

[#12]

why not just start with 1 shell of rubber bullets and have 00 after that? if they don't get the message after the rubber bullets, no point in wasting time gonig through weak loads.

although personally i think that if they don't get the message after you level a gun at them, the aren't going to get the message until they're dead....

btw whats jack lighting?

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:37:06 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
why not just start with 1 shell of rubber bullets and have 00 after that? if they don't get the message after the rubber bullets, no point in wasting time gonig through weak loads.

although personally i think that if they don't get the message after you level a gun at them, the aren't going to get the message until they're dead....

btw whats jack lighting?

Funny you should mention that: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=430368

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:40:00 PM EDT

[#14]

yeah- i'd skip the two rounds of 7.5

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:42:00 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I know of a guy that through a series of stupid moves while out riding the roads jack lighting deer { my surmise } managed to get shot with a Brenneke slug through the thigh, exited and then up into his abdomen and the slug ended up lodged next to his spine. He lived. When I met him at a gun range the slug was still in him and they had a tube draining his back. He was about to go in for some more surgery.

There is always a miracle. For the defensive shotgun I have a graduated loading. 7.5, 7.5, Turkey #4, Turkey #4. 00 at the ready.
rj

WHY????
If you know in your mind that it might come to needing the buck, why not just load up with it in the first place???

Birdshot, by definition, is made to kill small, thin skinned creatures with hollow bones while doing as little damage as possible. What makes people use the same load to try to stop a 200 pound felon that they would use to kill a seven pound bird?

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:47:48 PM EDT

[#16]

I have NEVER thought birdshot would be good for home defense, Double or Triple ought buck ONLY

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:49:57 PM EDT

[#17]

you have two options:

buckshot.
slug.

If you are using anything else, it is like putting lawnmower tires on your corvette and going "bad ass!"

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:54:17 PM EDT

[#18]

How does one shoot themselves while cleaning a gun? Still have yet to understand how that happens.
Maybe he was working on killing himself and thought #7 shot from a 20 guage to the stomach was a good idea. Relizing after he pulled the trigger that he wasn't automatically ripped in half or blown backwards 30 ft ( like in the movies ) he was thinking ,damn,I better get this looked at.

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:54:47 PM EDT

[#19]

I personally saw the aftermath of a shotgun wound to the abdomen with birdshot. It was underwhelming. At the time I didn't know how the guy survived, I do now after reading around this site the last couple of years.

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:57:19 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
[Birdshot, by definition, is made to kill small, thin skinned creatures with hollow bones while doing as little damage as possible. |]

At 40 yds a few of the pellets have just enough energy to kill the bird because they shed velocity quickly. At 10 to 20 FEET they will arrive with lots of energy. The larger pellets in 00 are intended for use on deer etc so they will have enough energy to penetrate to the vitals at 20 to 40 yds. At a few feet they are over kill. I would use #4 Buck as my normal load if I was going to load buckshot only. Lots more pellets. Still plenty big. I think they are 33 cal. Been a long time since I have looked at the chart.

rj

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:07:20 PM EDT

[#21]

I was going to start a new thread with this pic, but this thread will work.

Story line is out quail hunting, father gets shot by son.

Looks like it hurts like hell.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:10:28 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I was going to start a new thread with this pic, but this thread will work.

Story line is out quail hunting, father gets shot by son.

Looks like it hurts like hell.

i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/Bruiser_/pattern.jpg

nice pattern! Looks like that was 10-15 yards out.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:10:54 PM EDT

[#23]

Up close (real close), bird shot rips through flesh just like a slug does. This is not internet urban legend. I've witnessed the terminal ballistics of bird shot more than once riding Ambulances & Fire trucks in the last 15 years. I'm not saying it's as good as 00 or #1 buck, but it CAN kill you just as dead inside 10'.

The fact that this old man shot himself and lived doesn't prove much of anything.

I saw a guy after he took three shots from a 30-06, one in the forearm, one in the abdomen, and one in the chest, he had dual sucking chest wounds as a result, and the forearm shot blew away almost all the tissue from his arm below the elbow. He lived, and remained conscious the entire time I treated him.

I saw another kid after he shot himself in the thigh with a 38, he lived.
I saw a guy after getting shot in the neck, entrance & exit, and he lived.

I also treated a friend from high school that caught one (1, uno) buck shot pellet in the head. It penetrated his skull, changed direction and travel downward, severed his optical nerve, ruptured his exteral jugular, and lodged in his lung that ended up collapsing. He died. And that was from ONE (1, uno) shotgun buckshot pellet, don't recall the size. Gauge didn't matter cause all it took was one pellet.

One incident doesn't prove much. I've treated people that fell from 15' and refused to be treated cause the felt fine. I've also treated a man that slipped in the shower and broke his neck and died a week later. People get killed by 22's every day. But in general we all accept the idea that "more lead" is better.

And for you guys who are "progessively" loading heavier shot in your gun. WTF? If you have reason enough to resort to grabbing the shotty, you should have reason to pump some 00 into their sorry oxygen wasting ass.

#1 buck can typically competely penetrate a human sized animal, so some people claim anything larger than that is a waste. I keep my 590 loaded with 00 Hevi-shot, and I've got some 000 3' magnums as backup.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:11:34 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I was going to start a new thread with this pic, but this thread will work.

Story line is out quail hunting, father gets shot by son.

Looks like it hurts like hell.

i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/Bruiser_/pattern.jpg

Maybe he just has a serious case of ticks or black heads.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:13:58 PM EDT

[#25]

#4 and #2 shot would do some serious damage.

#9,8,7,6 are for the trap line

Buckshot is for hunting deer

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:15:17 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I was going to start a new thread with this pic, but this thread will work.

Story line is out quail hunting, father gets shot by son.

Looks like it hurts like hell.

i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/Bruiser_/pattern.jpg

A guy I knew in high school was SHOT IN THE FACE with a 2 3/4" 12 gauge round loaded with #6 shot. He was hit by his father in hunting accident from 8 YARDS. The shot cup actually cut his face so it was not a peripheral hit. He was released from the hospital the next day, and the only permanent damage was 30% vision loss in one eye.

Does that sound like an effective weapon to use against a violent attacker???

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:16:26 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I was going to start a new thread with this pic, but this thread will work.

Story line is out quail hunting, father gets shot by son.

Looks like it hurts like hell.

i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/Bruiser_/pattern.jpg

A guy I knew in high school was SHOT IN THE FACE with a 2 3/4" 12 gauge round loaded with #6 shot. He was hit by his father in hunting accident from 8 YARDS. The shot cup actually cut his face so it was not a peripheral hit. He was released from the hospital the next day, and the only permanent damage was 30% vision loss in one eye.

Does that sound like an effective weapon to use against a violent attacker???

Sure.

You can kill somebody with it so IT IS EFFECTIVE.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:19:04 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
And for you guys who are "progessively" loading heavier shot in your gun. WTF? .

Family members in other rooms ??

rj

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:22:19 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
And for you guys who are "progessively" loading heavier shot in your gun. WTF? .

Family members in other rooms ??
rj

Good point, and I can understand that, but if you're willing to use it in the fourth or fifth shot, why would you be reserved about using it in the first shot? If you're truly concerned about over penetration, would it not make more sense to load the gun with #4's or #6's only?

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:28:11 PM EDT

[#30]

Thank god that old guy didn't rack that shotgun. He'd be dead for sure.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:33:12 PM EDT

[#31]

I don't understand progressive loading or any of all the crazy ammo on various holders and that. Buckshot....000 is in my gun now. Less pellets to worry about, and, will kill dead. I have a family too, but, if I pop the guy with a phesant load and, he pops me, then, my family is in alot of trouble.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:33:57 PM EDT

[#32]

I agree slugs or buckshot is best but I would not hesitate to use number four shot either.

Posted: 2/7/2006 7:39:20 PM EDT

[#33]

some people in this thread are just asking for a refutation by a terminal ballistics expert.