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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 2/4/2006 3:46:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 3:49:49 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]
"People For the Secession of New York City - New Jersey Can Come, Too"

here is their description/mission statement:

"The word "city" does not appear in the Constitution, and the results are obvious: We're the vocal minority while being the nation's financial powerhouse, we can't get emergency aid when the Southern warmongers we're subsidizing get our buildings blown up; hell, we can't even run our subways without stepping on the toes of our governor. It's time for a change! Instead of Ford to New York: Drop Dead, it should be New York to Bush: Let's See How You Fare Without Taxes.

We already have the WTC, the WFC, the UN HQ (and we'll actually *pay* our dues), the world's 20th best army and 17th largest economy, more Jews than Jerusalem, more Irish than Dublin, more Puerto Ricans than San Juan. Hell, we're one of the few places on earth Jews and Arabs, Serbs and Bosnians can get along in peace and harmony.

With the money we save on federal and state taxes, we can repeal property and income taxes and still have a surplus! With Jersey, we'll have more shipping capacity than we'll know what to do with, and considering we have few of just about everybody, we'll have no natural enemies (well, maybe the US, but they're overextended as it is).

So, what's the hold up?"


I responded on their message board:

"Without NYC and NJ, the Democrats will never again have a majority in Congress. In addition, Upstate New York will be a red state, and we won't have to deal with Hillary or Chuckles anymore! You can keep Spitzer, too! As an Upstate New Yorker I strongly support the secession of NYC."


can't wait to hear the responses. it seems that the secession of NYC and NJ is the one thing that both me and these liberals can agree on!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:55:21 PM EDT
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:59:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:06:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:10:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



...can be located elsewhere. Chicago already has a pretty good commodities and stock exchange set up, but they're candidates for secession as well.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:10:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



Thats the point. NYC isn't able to supply themselves with food alone. Everyone already realises their monatary influence in the nation...

Also, that comment isn't directed at you or any other sane NYC'er... It's directed at a group of retarded liberals who think that NYC could just suceed without repercussions.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:21:29 PM EDT
While I don't neccessarily support them leaving the Union, I would love to see NYC and Long Island become their own state. That would make things a hell of a lot easier. Then at least they'd have to pay more for their pristine Adirondack water, and their cheap as hell Niagara Falls electricity. Motherbitches!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:23:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Flakchak:
While I don't neccessarily support them leaving the Union, I would love to see NYC and Long Island become their own state. That would make things a hell of a lot easier. Then at least they'd have to pay more for their pristine Adirondack water, and their cheap as hell Niagara Falls electricity. Motherbitches!




Uh, Flakchak, better looks at the balance of payments to/from NYS/NYC. NYC is carrying the tax load for most of NYS. Without it, the rest of the state would financially implode.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:28:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 4:28:45 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By Flakchak:
While I don't neccessarily support them leaving the Union, I would love to see NYC and Long Island become their own state. That would make things a hell of a lot easier. Then at least they'd have to pay more for their pristine Adirondack water, and their cheap as hell Niagara Falls electricity. Motherbitches!




Uh, Flakchak, better looks at the balance of payments to/from NYS/NYC. NYC is carrying the tax load for most of NYS. Without it, the rest of the state would financially implode.



they pay for the socialist programs which they voted for in the first place. if they were a different state, the budget requirements for upstate NY would be a lot less because there would be fewer government handouts.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:29:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



If the hippies take over, watch all the financial powerhouses make a beeline for Jersey City.



the world's 20th best army



What the fuck is he talking about?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:37:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 4:38:11 PM EDT by clement]
And I thought it was only us upstaters that wanted NYC out of NY. Ahh to be free from the stranglehold of NYC.

But I'm afraid NY is a fallen cause anyways. With at least Rochester (Monroe county got a lib majority in 2000 I think) and Buffalo economies going down the drain the rest of the state is just turning more and more liberal as all the people with REAL futures (no offense to the NY's here, but you have to admit there are a TON of college grads leaving the state after graduation) are moving out, leaving the leaches behind.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:41:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



If the hippies take over, watch all the financial powerhouses make a beeline for Jersey City.



the world's 20th best army


www.websophist.com/Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif
What the fuck is he talking about?



The NYPD I'm guessing.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:41:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Uh, Flakchak, better looks at the balance of payments to/from NYS/NYC. NYC is carrying the tax load for most of NYS. Without it, the rest of the state would financially implode.



Show me. I'm not saying this to say you're wrong. I just wanna be able to read it for myself. And so far, my searches online have proven fruitless.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:42:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.




Umm, actually no. The heart of the finance and banking system is 1's and 0's. Those can be shifted at a moment's notice to any of a dozen different locations. The .gov would not let Wall Street exist with no hot spare to substitute in case of a terrorist attack. Those transactions taking place in Wall Street every day are conducted in duplicate with the extra copy being stored deep underground in data warehouses. Standing up another Wall Street is just as complicated as getting a new building with a good OC3 fiber or better going into the basement with a shitload of plasma screens and a fucking brass bell.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:43:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clement:
And I thought it was only us upstaters that wanted NYC out of NY. Ahh to be free from the stranglehold of NYC.

But I'm afraid NY is a fallen cause anyways. With at least Rochester (Monroe county got a lib majority in 2000 I think) and Buffalo economies going down the drain the rest of the state is just turning more and more liberal as all the people with REAL futures (no offense to the NY's here, but you have to admit there are a TON of college grads leaving the state after graduation) are moving out, leaving the leaches behind.



The county executive is a Republican.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:45:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wingnut116ACW:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.




Umm, actually no. The heart of the finance and banking system is 1's and 0's. Those can be shifted at a moment's notice to any of a dozen different locations. The .gov would not let Wall Street exist with no hot spare to substitute in case of a terrorist attack. Those transactions taking place in Wall Street every day are conducted in duplicate with the extra copy being stored deep underground in data warehouses. Standing up another Wall Street is just as complicated as getting a new building with a good OC3 fiber or better going into the basement with a shitload of plasma screens and a fucking brass bell.



Ummmm, actually yes. The heart of the finance and banking system rides up in the elevators in those buildings on Wall Street and in midtown every day
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:46:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSneak:

The NYPD I'm guessing.



No disrespect to Wave, but Arfcom could whip the NYPD.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:48:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Flakchak:

Originally Posted By clement:
And I thought it was only us upstaters that wanted NYC out of NY. Ahh to be free from the stranglehold of NYC.

But I'm afraid NY is a fallen cause anyways. With at least Rochester (Monroe county got a lib majority in 2000 I think) and Buffalo economies going down the drain the rest of the state is just turning more and more liberal as all the people with REAL futures (no offense to the NY's here, but you have to admit there are a TON of college grads leaving the state after graduation) are moving out, leaving the leaches behind.



The county executive is a Republican.



So are Pataki and Bloomberg.

www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap2000.htm

You'll see both erie and monroe in blue.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:52:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clement:

Originally Posted By Flakchak:

Originally Posted By clement:
And I thought it was only us upstaters that wanted NYC out of NY. Ahh to be free from the stranglehold of NYC.

But I'm afraid NY is a fallen cause anyways. With at least Rochester (Monroe county got a lib majority in 2000 I think) and Buffalo economies going down the drain the rest of the state is just turning more and more liberal as all the people with REAL futures (no offense to the NY's here, but you have to admit there are a TON of college grads leaving the state after graduation) are moving out, leaving the leaches behind.



The county executive is a Republican.



So are Pataki and Bloomberg.

www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap2000.htm

You'll see both erie and monroe in blue.



yeah, but maggie brooks isn't a RINO. here in monroe county, the city of rochester is solid blue while everything outside the city limits is very red. the city and the rest of the county hate each other, and are often at each other's throats.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:15:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 5:15:18 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.


I'd love to see what NYC does without the food grown in the rest of America. I hope your stocks taste good.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:22:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 5:23:37 PM EDT by bastiat]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



Adapts, like it always does.

The calls of "you can't live without the food from california" are just as funny as that comment.

ETA: I'm sure some of those finance and banking companies are owned via stock by many people outside NYC. Shareholders ultimately control where a company is located.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:29:27 PM EDT
Take the UN with you!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:18:57 PM EDT

I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.

More business could move to Charlotte, NC like has already happened. Charlotte has already grown to second behind only NYC in terms of headquartered bank assets.z
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:33:03 PM EDT
If NYC was treated as washington dc was, upstate NY would turn red quickly. The blues in the city of rochester and buffalo are mainly there due to the jobs leaving, and the rates of welfare and cheap housing available. republican actions against those would change the face of those two cities. As a native monroe-county resident, this would work in our favor.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:35:46 PM EDT
this can't happen soon enough.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:57:25 PM EDT
+1 Let NYC, LA and other major urban areas revert to being US protectorates.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:12:23 PM EDT
I think it is a great idea. NYC, LA, Shitcago, etc. The people away from these cities would be WAY better off.

40% of my property taxes go right to the 2 liberal shitholes in my state. I'd say what for but it would violate the COC and start all kinds of shit in this thread. In any event I would give them up in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:14:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



...can be located elsewhere. Chicago already has a pretty good commodities and stock exchange set up, but they're candidates for secession as well.



+1 I was gonna suggest kicking Hizzoner and his minions out of IL.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:40:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: Ummmm, actually yes. The heart of the finance and banking system rides up in the elevators in those buildings on Wall Street and in midtown every day
They're replaceable. There's plenty of talent and infastructure in every major city in the USA. NYC is just the heart simply because of tradition. If they bug out, the USA will be fine and they'll be screwed.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:56:22 PM EDT
The truth about New York politics:

1 - There is only one political party in New York state. It is the confiscate, tax and spend party. It has two main comittees. One is the Republican comittee and the other is the Democrat comittee.
2 - State wide offices must be filled with people from the NYC area. The last senator from New York who was not from that area was Kenneth Keating. He was defeated by another carpetabagger candidate by the name of Robert Kenedy in 1964. He was the senator who stood in congress, showed the American people the pictures of the missile sites in Cuba and demanded that JFK get off his ass and do something about it.
3 - All possible candiates for statewide office who could run strong against a NYC based candidate are paid off with high paying job in the state. ie Bob King who did a heck of a job as county manager for Monroe County and was a strong candidate for govenor. He was appointed chancellor of the State University of NY instead. The highest paying job in the state. One little known fact is that his wife got a job as a special asistant for administrator 13. Her pay was $65,000/year plus benefits. Administrator 13 is a holding position for poeple who have no one to report to.
4 - George Pataki has broken just about every promise he made when he first ran for govenor. In the last election he got the union representing state worker on his side by the guarantee of yearly raises to all retired state workers. It is now possible to get more in retirement than whan you are working.
5 - It is so bad in NY that even the Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester's main newspaper) withheld recomendations for all current office holders in the last election and told people to vote against all incumbents. Of course this would be of little effect anyways. See item one above.



Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:07:03 PM EDT
I'm trying to think of a city / metropolitan area, of over a few hundred thousand, that this country wouldn't be better off without. They can have their own federated archipelago of tax spending, and try to finance it without the rest of us.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:11:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



I'd like to see how those banks in New York do without the money from the United States and businesses within the United States. If New York split off we'd have people falling over each other to open new banks in the rest of the United States. Oh, and the money in those New York banks would run out overnight. Businesses and investors in other parts of the country would pull their assests in a "New York Minute" if they say a succession like this coming, especially if the intention was to try and seperate the banking system from the US and take the money.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:21:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gaweidert:
The truth about New York politics:

1 - There is only one political party in New York state. It is the confiscate, tax and spend party. It has two main comittees. One is the Republican comittee and the other is the Democrat comittee.
2 - State wide offices must be filled with people from the NYC area. The last senator from New York who was not from that area was Kenneth Keating. He was defeated by another carpetabagger candidate by the name of Robert Kenedy in 1964. He was the senator who stood in congress, showed the American people the pictures of the missile sites in Cuba and demanded that JFK get off his ass and do something about it.
3 - All possible candiates for statewide office who could run strong against a NYC based candidate are paid off with high paying job in the state. ie Bob King who did a heck of a job as county manager for Monroe County and was a strong candidate for govenor. He was appointed chancellor of the State University of NY instead. The highest paying job in the state. One little known fact is that his wife got a job as a special asistant for administrator 13. Her pay was $65,000/year plus benefits. Administrator 13 is a holding position for poeple who have no one to report to.
4 - George Pataki has broken just about every promise he made when he first ran for govenor. In the last election he got the union representing state worker on his side by the guarantee of yearly raises to all retired state workers. It is now possible to get more in retirement than whan you are working.
5 - It is so bad in NY that even the Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester's main newspaper) withheld recomendations for all current office holders in the last election and told people to vote against all incumbents. Of course this would be of little effect anyways. See item one above.



damn straight. upstate really needs to secede. unfortunately that's not going to happen, and I can't wait to get out of here.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:51:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



Most of the backroom is already across the river in Jersey City.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:33:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 3:34:31 AM EDT by tc556guy]
Good riddance

Edit: No link?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:57:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



Somehow I think we would survive.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:18:53 AM EDT
Since you didn't provide a link, I've been googling the article you gave, and theres some interesting stuff liek this out there:

www.thebrooklynrail.org/express/march05/newholland.html

New New Holland?
by Peter Lamborn Wilson
March 2005




Not for the first time in New York City’s history, a buzz about Secession has begun to be heard—or perhaps a serpentine hiss, depending on your point of view. Several local papers (including NY Press, The Nation, and the Rail), have recently run articles boosting secession and independence for NYC. People seem to be thinking: “Secession… hmm…What a good idea!”

Why just the city? Why not the whole state? Well, they don’t call us “The Empire State” for nothing. On the whole New York is conservative; if it weren’t for the city’s teeming “Blue” millions the whole state might be 90% “Red,” or so the journalists assume. Tongues only half in cheeks, they ask why not go the whole hog—or double-dip secession from New York State and the USA simultaneously?

Contrary to the usual consensus historical 20-20 hindsight, in 1789 the US Constitution was not a very popular proposition. Real revolutionaries considered it a plutocratic coup d’etat engineered by the likes of Alexander Hamilton and the big bankers of New York. Eventually the so-called Anti-Federalists were outmaneuvered, and sufficient votes mustered (or bought) to assure ratification. The radicals were dragged in kicking and screaming. Among the last states to accede were Virginia (where Patrick Henry and R.H. Lee opposed entry), Rhode Island (in the grip of the Debtors’ Party), and surprisingly, New York, where a coalition of urban mechanics and rural yeomanry kept re-electing Gov. George “Cato” Clinton, leading Revolutionary hero and Anti-Federalist Ideologue. When these three states at last joined the USA they included clauses in their Protocols of Ratification reserving the right to secede. (From a Jeffersonian p.o.v., the “Social Contract” must be reconsidered by each generation, otherwise it would be unjust.)

These protocols have never been rescinded, even after the Civil War. An argument can be made that if only one state reserved this right unchallenged, then—by the logic of the Constitution itself—the right must accrue to all other states as well.

This argument is championed by the Second Vermont Republic (SVR), a lively secessionist group founded recently by Prof. Thomas Naylor and now boasting its own journal, website, think tank and recent conference—held right after the national elections last November—where activist/historian Kirkpatrick Sale gave the keynote address. Other “legalist” secession movements seem to be gathering steam in New Hampshire, Maine, Texas, Alaska, and Hawaii. But I particularly admire the SVR for its “Vermont socialism,” Green Populism, and geo-local panache (one of their leaders likes to dress up as Ethan Allen).

Vermont seceded in 1777 simultaneously from the British Empire and the State of New York, and continued as an independent republic till 1791. If Vermont did a double secession, why shouldn’t NYC secede from the Empire State as well as the New American Empire? West Virginia seceded simultaneously from Virginia and the Confederate States of America (CSA) during the Civil War. Even a few Southern counties seceded from the CSA and set up as “Free States,” although sadly these proved ephemeral. There’s a legal argument complete with precedents for NYC independence. But why should anyone take it seriously? Or care?

Some of my fellow anarchists have already criticized me for expressing an interest in such a “statist” or even “nationalist” notion as secession. I answer that the founder of American Anarchism, Lysander Spooner, advocated both the abolition of slavery and the right of secession. J.P. Proudhon advocated secession and anarcho-federalism. Gustav Landauer advocated the secession of the Bavarian Council Republic from Germany after World War I. Emma Goldman advocated secession of Catalonia from Spain. And so on.

The Second Vermont Republic is based on the anti-authoritarian “Small is Beautiful” philosophy of Leopold Kohr (Breakdown of Nations), E. F. Schumacher, and the British-based Fourth World Movement. Secession appeals to certain anarchists not as an end in itself but as a good first step toward regional autonomy and eventually real Mutualism.

Before joining any Free NYC movement, however, I’d have to ask some vital questions. First and most important: the real power here belongs to Wall Street. I can imagine situations in which Wall St. might actually favor independence (Capitalist Rats Desert Sinking US Economy, Seek ‘Off-Shore’ Haven). Certain rich and powerful people might even now be willing to fund such a movement, just in case…

What if George Soros offered a grant to the Independence movement? Or how about some cartel or cabal of coke-addled technogeek dot-commies? What if the Mob wanted a piece of the action? The mind boggles.

Why should we work to turn NYC into a free and independent predator-Capitalist mini-state, like some New Economic Zone or neo-Hong Kong or Caribbean bank dump? Should we (assuming there is a “we”) deal with the fat top-hatted Devil now, hoping to outmaneuver and in effect betray him at the last moment? Can we envision a social revolution hidden inside the secession movement and waiting to come out the day after Independence is declared? A bit too baroque, eh?

In my guess-opinion, any NYC secession movement would appeal mostly to “progressive” types (I mean this in a social rather than strictly political sense): ultra-Blues, Greens, disgusted Democrats, people with vague Soc.-Dem. tendencies, leftist remnants, the “new class” of data workers, labor, minorities, and the poor. Secessionists should make clear from the very start that their model is “Northern European” and social, not capital-L Libertarian or predatory-Capitalist. (Libertarians could be drawn into the movement on social-freedom issues rather than “Austrian” economics.)

In short: Wall St. would be expected to pay the People for the privilege of doing business here; i.e., a Scandinavian tax structure for corporations would be imposed. On this basis any billionaire who wanted to bankroll us would be welcome—including the Devil.

I don’t insist on an orthodox anarchist or socialist secession movement. I’d refuse to join a pure Capitalist one—but almost anything else would do. Scotland achieved independence through an alliance of Soc.-Dem. Types and left-liberal Scots Nationalists, or so I’ve been told. I’m perfectly willing to back a similar combo in NYC.

My second question concerns the issue of bioregionalism. As an isolated megalopolis NYC would be ecologically non-viable—not to mention economically impossible. Up here in Hudsonia where I moved some years ago we know that aquapolitics is everything, that NYC is a “hydraulic civilization.” The real political unit is always the real eco-economic unit. The Free State of NYC would have to include at least Greene and Columbia counties to the north, Delaware and Sullivan to the west, the whole Connecticut border to the east, and everything bounded by these marches. This area would have to be protected as the watershed and agricultural region of the new republic, since an independent NYC would need not only its own water but also more local food resources than the old NYC. This brute material truth would demand a policy of severely limited development, especially the vampiric bedroom-community Wal-Mart variety, leading to an almost militant agrarianism. Forest and farmland would have to take precedence over “property rights.” The Commons must be considered more than a nice sentiment—it must be a minimal political demand. No commons—no food and water.

Again, I’m not proposing anarcho-communism here. Just the bare minimum of tilt in favor of the social—something a bit more like Canada or Holland and less like the bloody U.S. empire.

After all, the area we’re talking about coincides almost exactly with historical New Netherland—and New York City with New Amsterdam. The NYC secession movement—if it’s to exist at all—should at least strive toward something vaguely along the lines of the contemporary “Dutch model.” I don’t begrudge our Netherlandish cousins their weather or cuisine, but I admit to real Sin of Envy when it comes to their social net, tolerance (e.g., the “Amsterdam model” for drugs) and the sheer smallness of their political unit.

Holland is certainly not Utopia. But I have to admit that as age approaches I occasionally dream of pursuing my cultural and political goals in peace and minimal comfort, rather than as a constant struggle against raptor-Capitalism and its incredibly loud and offensive McImperalist bloated malign stupidity. Sometimes I fantasize escape to some Scando-monarcho-socialist gemütlich Welfare (“Nanny”) State, where I could be a dissident anarchist and cultural radical with Health Care as well as freedom of speech (plus decriminalized hemp).

A secession movement for (let’s call it) New Holland may never provide everything I dream of even in this modest dream. But who cares? We’re looking for political games to play…adventures, perhaps. Possibly we should’ve moved to Canada in 1968, tant pis, but we’re here now. We’re totally without power to change one iota of political or economic reality. People without power have nothing to lose from the “politics of the very worst.” We’re basically sitting around waiting for the Empire to collapse. Under such conditions, what the hell? Why shouldn’t we make a little Pascalian side-wager on the New Secessionism?

Peter Lamborn Wilson lived in New York City for 40 years, then moved upstate. He’s a poet, non-academic scholar, author of some 25 books translated into (at last count) 13 languages, most recently Turkish and Serbo-Croat. This past December he spoke to the NY Anarchist Forum on Secession. His interview in the Rail (see July/August 2004 issue) was picked up and quoted by (among others) Utne and Le Monde.

or this ( a bit old, and long, so I'm just going to link ):

www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/rnc/9573/

I didn't know that its beena dvocated as long as it has been.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:20:22 AM EDT
I think that letting NYC break away is not such a bad idea. Though it sets a bad example.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:15:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NickySantoro:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



HAHA It works both ways bitches.



I'd love to see what the rest of America does without NYC. The heart of the finance and banking system.



Most of the backroom is already across the river in Jersey City.



Not nearly as much as people would like to think.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:37:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:33:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:49:16 AM EDT
NYC, financial center of world 'cuz it's the finanacial center of the U. S. Of A.

All this money belongs to people who aren't Newyawkers, and may move their money to someplace else.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:56:38 AM EDT
Fuckin don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out!

While I love NYC as a place, their drain on the state kills me. Its like they are the only area that counts, the way the politicians kiss their ass....
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:56:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
But upstate is broke! They have no money!



HEY! I resemble that comment!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:59:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By TheSneak:

The NYPD I'm guessing.



No disrespect to Wave, but Arfcom could whip the NYPD.



I've heard the NYPD called the "X" biggest army in the world before. Yeah I'd believe that, we've got ALOT of cops. That's a wall of 9mm flying all over the place!



About 35,000 officers, isn't it?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:02:46 PM EDT
40,000 officers, IIRC. LAPD has 7,000 and they cover a larger area. That reflects population density to some extent though.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:12:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mildbill39:
NYC, financial center of world 'cuz it's the finanacial center of the U. S. Of A.

All this money belongs to people who aren't Newyawkers, and may move their money to someplace else.




No way! KATIE ("couldn't the Air Marshalls just shoot him in the arm?") COURIC is a New Yorker. EVERYBODY loves Katie. We wouldn't do anything that would impact her negatively.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:22:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Good. Lets embargo the motherfuckers and see if they can feed 8 million people with rooftop gardens.



I thought that it was really about 17-18M people, with LA being 25M people and Chicago being 8-9M.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 2:48:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By op_rod:
I thought that it was really about 17-18M people, with LA being 25M people and Chicago being 8-9M.



7-8 million
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