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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/21/2005 6:59:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:12:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 7:20:11 PM EDT by Mr-H]
But how can this be? Don't they know that the new definition given to atheism is one that says it is merely a lack of a belief in a god or gods?

I am thinking about redefining theism as merely the lack of a belief that God does not exist.

But seriously, I have always understood a religion to be something you follow with all of your heart. The thing followed doesn't necessarily have to be supernatural or even have supernatural elements. I think this understanding has changed only recently.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:15:33 PM EDT
I know plenty of athiests that do not worship mankind. But that doesn't fit your preconcieved notion of what an athiest is, does it?


Athiest = does not believe in god

It does NOT mean that they believe in man. Many of them don't believe in either.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:22:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 7:22:46 PM EDT by PBIR]
All I can do is laugh. I think it is hilarious that people who's main point of pride is turning up their nose at religion are now labeled as a religion. The irony is too beautiful, God has a wonderful sense of humor.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:43:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:29:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 8:30:14 PM EDT by swingset]

Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
I know plenty of athiests that do not worship mankind. But that doesn't fit your preconcieved notion of what an athiest is, does it?


Athiest = does not believe in god

It does NOT mean that they believe in man. Many of them don't believe in either.



don't be dull. they worship themselves, individually. Not that they have a shrine with their picture in it and pray to themselves, but they veiw themselves as autonomous, the one in charge, the highest authority, the original interpreter of things instead of the re-interpreter. They view thier wants and ideas as supreme.




That's a pretty broad brush, you can't know the thoughts and reasoning of everyone unlike yourself, anymore than I can say that all Christians are <insert label here>.

I can honestly say when I was convinced there was no God, I didn't have any illusions that I was in charge of anything. I just knew, deep down, that there wasn't a man in the sky. I was a long way from feeling my ideas were surpreme....and I'm sure I'm not the only one who ever felt that way.

If you had been born into a community or at a time when Christianity was not the norm, you'd probably be something very different, with different feelings and ideas about how the world works. Always best to remember that, when pointing fingers.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:09:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 11:29:23 PM EDT by yellow5]

Originally Posted By MRW:
don't be dull. they worship themselves, individually.



Oh brother ...



Mankind is inherently religious. He MUST have a religion.



Many of us have been getting along fine without it for centuries now.

ETA: for the record, I fully support religious STUDIES in school, that to include a broad range of religions. If people would actually research different belief systems (not just the big 3) they might find themselves quite surprised.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 12:08:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
I know plenty of athiests that do not worship mankind. But that doesn't fit your preconcieved notion of what an athiest is, does it?


Athiest = does not believe in god

It does NOT mean that they believe in man. Many of them don't believe in either.



don't be dull. they worship themselves, individually. Not that they have a shrine with their picture in it and pray to themselves, but they veiw themselves as autonomous, the one in charge, the highest authority, the original interpreter of things instead of the re-interpreter. They view thier wants and ideas as supreme.
Or not. They do not believe god exists. That is all. They don't need to interpret or re-interpret things. They accept things as they are, at their face value. They're not searching for any deeper meaning. But again, that doesn't fit your preconcieved notion of what an athiest is, does it?

Age old question, started in the Garden. Will mankind submit to God, or try to replace God with himself? Who's going to hold the supreme position, God or man? "For you will be like God..." The question is moot for most athiests I know. They do not believe that god exists. Therefore, why would they want to "be like" something they don't believe exists? Going on for a long time now. Gonna be resolved soon. Says who? A book that non-christians do not believe in? Thats not exactly a convincing argument unless you already accept that the book is true. Woe to you if you decide poorly. Bessed you will be if you make the correct and wise secision. Choose poorly? Choose Correctly? According to what? That same book, which as stated, non-christians DO NOT BELIEVE

Link Posted: 8/22/2005 4:09:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 4:29:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MRW:
nay-sayers are known for saying "nay".




talk about dull.

Lack of belief in "A" does not result in a belief in "not A"
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 4:56:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:00:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Yea, I find it funny too. It's like the courts look for make work insuring their future.



They have been doing a pretty good job of it for a long time now.

It's good that the SCOTUS gets all summer off though, allows us a chance to catch
our breath from all of their freakish behavior.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:04:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:15:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
I know plenty of athiests that do not worship mankind. But that doesn't fit your preconcieved notion of what an athiest is, does it?


Athiest = does not believe in god

It does NOT mean that they believe in man. Many of them don't believe in either.



don't be dull. they worship themselves, individually. Not that they have a shrine with their picture in it and pray to themselves, but they veiw themselves as autonomous, the one in charge, the highest authority, the original interpreter of things instead of the re-interpreter. They view thier wants and ideas as supreme.

Age old question, started in the Garden. Will mankind submit to God, or try to replace God with himself? Who's going to hold the supreme position, God or man? "For you will be like God..." Going on for a long time now. Gonna be resolved soon. Woe to you if you decide poorly. Bessed you will be if you make the correct and wise secision.



Wow, I had no idea I had so many views about a supreme being. Thanks for telling me what I believe.

Did you know Christians eat babies? I heard it on the net somewhere and it fits my personal worldview, so I'm just gonna continue the same sad line of BS, even though it makes me look like an idiot. Lucky I'm not a Christian, or that whole "bearing false witness" thing might bite me in the ass :)

One more time for the slow one in the group, Atheists don't believe in any supreme being. I don't believe in Santa, that doesn't mean I'm trying to usurp Santa's place. I don't view myself as a supreme being and neither do any other atheists I know.

People who view themselves as supreme are called megalomaniacs, not atheists.

I do find it funny that by your definition God himself is an atheist. He views himself as supreme and recognizes no superior. Must be an atheist

Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:22:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By MRW:
nay-sayers are known for saying "nay".




talk about dull.

Lack of belief in "A" does not result in a belief in "not A"



so not-A does not mean not-A? Lack of A means Not-A, by definition.



Now we are playing games with words because we cannot form a intelligent argument, how grown up. Yea, lack of A can ascribe the characteristic not-A to X , you win, lets start communion in schools.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:10:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 6:11:06 AM EDT by NoVaGator]

Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By MRW:
nay-sayers are known for saying "nay".




talk about dull.

Lack of belief in "A" does not result in a belief in "not A"



so not-A does not mean not-A? Lack of A means Not-A, by definition.



sorry, should have been clearer:

Lack of belief in "A" does not reflexively result in a belief in anything in particular, including the antithesis of A
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:16:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By MRW:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By MRW:
nay-sayers are known for saying "nay".




talk about dull.

Lack of belief in "A" does not result in a belief in "not A"



so not-A does not mean not-A? Lack of A means Not-A, by definition.



sorry, should have been clearer:

Lack of belief in "A" does not reflexively result in a belief in anything in particular, including the antithesis of A



Your statement seemed pretty clear to me.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:58:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 7:06:16 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:13:57 AM EDT


Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

BTW, I don't believe in the "Tooth Fairy". Does that mean I'm part of the "Anti-Tooth Fairly Religion"?



    Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


If you do so with zeal then yes, you are the "Anti-Tooth Fairy Religion". Any atheist that pursues his cause with zeal or devotion is religious. Just as religious as me probably.

Shok
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:23:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

BTW, I don't believe in the "Tooth Fairy". Does that mean I'm part of the "Anti-Tooth Fairly Religion"?



    Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


If you do so with zeal then yes, you are the "Anti-Tooth Fairy Religion". Any atheist that pursues his cause with zeal or devotion is religious. Just as religious as me probably.

Shok



Then what about athiests who aren't out to erase any visible signs of other religions (like those that seem to think that freedom of religion really means freedom FROM religion). Those that are happy to just live their life without trying to "convert" people away from their reiligions, are they religious athiests?

There are those that are the athiestic version of billy graham and other tv evangalasts. For them, I agree, their athiesm is indeed a religion. Those are the people who sue the state because a 100 year old monument has the 10 commandments on it.

What about those that don't seek to push their lack of belief onto anyone else?
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:29:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:30:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:


What about those (atheists) that don't seek to push their lack of belief onto anyone else?



Atheists that don't proselytize may or may not be religious. The article MRW posted shows the court ruled that merely having a study group is religious.

Shok
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:32:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:33:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 7:36:52 AM EDT by Dino]

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

BTW, I don't believe in the "Tooth Fairy". Does that mean I'm part of the "Anti-Tooth Fairly Religion"?



    Religion: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


If you do so with zeal then yes, you are the "Anti-Tooth Fairy Religion". Any atheist that pursues his cause with zeal or devotion is religious. Just as religious as me probably.

Shok



no you're just anti-Tooth Fairy.

If you hate Christianity you're an anti-Christian

If you hate theism you're an anti-Theist

If you don't believe in God, then you're an atheist.

Some atheists are definitely anti-Christian, but not the vast majority.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:36:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:44:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:45:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:01:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:

Then what about athiests who aren't out to erase any visible signs of other religions (like those that seem to think that freedom of religion really means freedom FROM religion). Those that are happy to just live their life without trying to "convert" people away from their reiligions, are they religious athiests?

There are those that are the athiestic version of billy graham and other tv evangalasts. For them, I agree, their athiesm is indeed a religion. Those are the people who sue the state because a 100 year old monument has the 10 commandments on it.

What about those that don't seek to push their lack of belief onto anyone else?



+1 - most athiests/agnostics I know, and I included, are this way. Yes there are some who are too zealous, I like them about as much as I liked the Mormon missionaries telling me that I'm going to hell a few weeks ago.

A couple of years ago some athiest was driving through the area where I live, and noticed one of those signs that says "JESUS IS LORD OF ALL" on public land. The ACLU made the city take them down. In response, a large amount of people put the same sign on their own property.

My thoughts, he wasted his time over nothing. Regardless of how many signs are up, I still don't believe them.
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