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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/11/2004 3:29:22 AM EST
El Presedente was in town on saturday, was working around the house when I hear this jet engine roar- the unmistakable jet fighter sound....anyway we dont often hear that- especially that low. OK no biggie, but then this cessna flys over our house at maybe 1-2000 feet or so with Mr. F-16 behind it. the jet was doing s- curves (presumably to go slow enough) and was loud as hell and FULLY loaded with missles. SO I watch hi chase away this plane for about 5 miles (from us) and see him do a quick 180 and kick her down straight back at us at about 500 mph! looked like he was headed back to guard the pres. Was an article about it in the Pioneer Press- including mentionint that the jet launched a flare to get the pilots attention.

kinda cool
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:32:01 AM EST
heh..
if I was that cessna pilot, I'd be crapping my pants...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:33:49 AM EST
A F-16 chasing a Cessna is like a Ford F-250 chasing a turtle. It can be done, but it's not very comfortable for the turtle.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:34:51 AM EST
That pilot is lucky. If that cessna would have attacked, the fighter would not have had a prayer!

I love that Simpsons episode when two fighters are chasing the Wright brothers plane.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:37:11 AM EST
did not see him launch his flares- must have been farther to the west
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:40:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ramjet:
A F-16 chasing a Cessna is like a Ford F-250 chasing a turtle. It can be done, but it's not very comfortable for the turtle.



Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:53:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:54:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ramjet:
A F-16 chasing a Cessna is like a Ford F-250 chasing a turtle. It can be done, but it's not very comfortable for the turtle.



Interesting analogy, a Ford F-250 and a turtle.
Let's try a Ferrari Testarosa and a elderly man on a 26" girls bicycle with bunions on both feet, a grocery basket on the handlebars full of junk he found in a dumpster.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:59:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
That pilot is lucky. If that cessna would have attacked, the fighter would not have had a prayer!

I love that Simpsons episode when two fighters are chasing the Wright brothers plane.



"...Suggest we get out and walk sir..."
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:02:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
If that cessna would have attacked, the fighter would not have had a prayer!



Assault Cessna.......I forgot the ban was over.......silly me.........
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:21:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By alloy6061:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
If that cessna would have attacked, the fighter would not have had a prayer!



Assault Cessna.......I forgot the ban was over.......silly me.........



Damn skippy!

Hell hath no fury like a Cessna with a bayo lug.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:21:40 AM EST

An F-16 carrying NO stores can achieve a flight speed as low as 118 knots in level flight, but only in a high alpha pass.


Maybe in a flight sim game. In the real world, many things would prevent such a performance. The sim doesn't model squadron or wing policy, for example. Nor does it take into account that the aircraft that are actually flying aren't perfect examples of the type - they've got lots of hours on them and are likely heavier than when they were new.

Anyway, it doesn't matter - lots of people saw the F-16 down low by the Cessna. Not many people saw his wingman perched up high and ready to strike if needed.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:24:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:25:43 AM EST by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:27:18 AM EST
i mentioned the f-16 was doing s turns or zig-zaging - probnably to be able to go as slow as the cessna- either way it was cool to watch!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:58:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
That pilot is lucky. If that cessna would have attacked, the fighter would not have had a prayer!

I love that Simpsons episode when two fighters are chasing the Wright brothers plane.



"...Suggest we get out and walk sir..."


"If the tennis rackets don't get you the pool skimmers will!"
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:25:42 AM EST
Man it must really suck to be the Cessna Pilot because where ever the President is there is a TFR(temperary flight restirction) meaning you fly in you get busted which this guy obviously did. He probly had to call the FAA or something after he landed because this is a serious infliction in the flight rules. Heck he may have lost his license never know, but the pilot of the cessna deffinately was not having a good day after that
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:37:21 AM EST
I heard on the news here(MN), that the Cessna pilot is in deep shit
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:45:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I heard on the news here(MN), that the Cessna pilot is in deep shit



I would think having a F-16 chase you around while you in a damned Cessna would be "deep shit" enough and give you a lesson you wouldnt soon forget!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:46:10 AM EST
Neat story, but I'd hate to be that Cessna pilot.

If an "important" person did that (read: high-ranking gov't official, etc), "the law" would certainly slough it off as "an unintentional lapse of judgement and nothing more."
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:46:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I heard on the news here(MN), that the Cessna pilot is in deep shit



I would think having a F-16 chase you around while you in a damned Cessna would be "deep shit" enough and give you a lesson you wouldnt soon forget!




my guess would be he will loose his ticket for a year
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:23:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
That pilot is lucky. If that cessna would have attacked, the fighter would not have had a prayer!

I love that Simpsons episode when two fighters are chasing the Wright brothers plane.



"...Suggest we get out and walk sir..."



"Prepare to engage enemy."-"Bogey's airspeed not sufficient for intercept. Suggest we get out and walk."
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:38:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Damn skippy!

Hell hath no fury like a Cessna with a bayo lug couple of hard points.



Fixed it for ya
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:45:09 AM EST
You would THINK, that his flight plan would have been rejected or the tower would have told him not to leave/enter or something to prevent him from going up if he was not supposed to.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:50:07 AM EST
i dont think there is a tower at this airfield- its pretty small
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:54:32 AM EST
so why drop a flare. maybe the RADIO might do?

Imagine being the Sesna pilot wondering WTF is this F-16 f!ing with me for while i am on my way from one Podunk airport to another. i would be thinking that F-16 gets to close he will rip my wings off with his jet wash. Then realizing after he flips and flys around and winks his lights maybe I need to follow him? Somewhere? And once I get there where the hell do I go to get around wherever he doesn’t want me to be and try to make it around this uncharted restricted airspace and get to where I was going before Buck Rogers showed up.

I think that would piss me off.
Screw crapping my pants. I want to chew on some base commander’s ass.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:59:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:05:35 AM EST
General aviation isn't normally required to file a flight plan. BUT you are responsible for the latest
NOTAMS and all the other bulletins the FAA puts out about things. He'll probably loose his ticket.
Period. Especially in this day and age with all the hand wringing that's going on.

Reminds me of the time we got intercepted by MIG-21s. The pilot put us at 200 feet, dropped flaps
and reduced speed to almost minimum controllable airspeed. The migs kept making these wallowing S-turns
at slow speed to stay with us. They wouldn't come lower than about 500 feet or so. I saw at least one
of them stall during this. Whole thing lasted about 20 minutes. I'm sure the laundry wouldn't accept any
or their flight suits!!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:10:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
the poor shmuck probably no radio or limited avionics.

is it the pilot's resposibility to know the day's no-fly zones when he wrestles his 1948 taylorcraft aloft from his grass strip?

seriously, is one supposed to call the faa before going up for traffic pattern updates?



technically you are s upposed to read the current NOTAMs before going up
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:53:51 AM EST
THIS IS A DUPE.

Someone please search for the previous post with all of this same info that has already been covered.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:01:22 AM EST
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=282502

Video link of F-16 shooting flares towards Cessna in the link I posted.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:09:44 AM EST
Thanks for the link. Pretty cool.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:11:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:35:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
You would THINK, that his flight plan would have been rejected or the tower would have told him not to leave/enter or something to prevent him from going up if he was not supposed to.



And he's not REQUIRED to file a flight plan - it is 'reccommended'...

He is REQUIRED to read NOTAMs (NOTice to AirMen) before he takes off, however, as they tell you things like 'Don't fly here at this time, the President is coming'...

FAA will want to talk to that turkey for sure...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:36:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
so why drop a flare. maybe the RADIO might do?

Imagine being the Sesna pilot wondering WTF is this F-16 f!ing with me for while i am on my way from one Podunk airport to another. i would be thinking that F-16 gets to close he will rip my wings off with his jet wash. Then realizing after he flips and flys around and winks his lights maybe I need to follow him? Somewhere? And once I get there where the hell do I go to get around wherever he doesn’t want me to be and try to make it around this uncharted restricted airspace and get to where I was going before Buck Rogers showed up.

I think that would piss me off.
Screw crapping my pants. I want to chew on some base commander’s ass.



F-16 doesn't know what channel the Cessna has on, or if the Cessna even has a radio

For operating out of a no-tower airport, no comm equipment is required...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:38:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:44:33 AM EST by Ramjet]

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
thanks for the info.

my father (part owner of a 150...many years ago) probably never read a notam in his life.

i wonder if the guy down the road from me that owns a couple of biplanes reads them before his evening jaunts around the countryside.



Nope.

By the way, I use to have a NASA "Get out of Jail Free" form in my flight bag that you submitted to get you out of trouble. I'm not sure if that program is still alive but every pilot I knew had one when the big airspace changes started. I stopped flying three years ago when I sold my plane.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:38:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
thanks for the info.

my father (part owner of a 150...many years ago) probably never read a notam in his life.

i wonder if the guy down the road from me that owns a couple of biplanes reads them before his evening jaunts around the countryside.



I'm guessing alot of pilots are like your dad...

But the FAA tends to be very picky about their rules, and if such a pilot happens to wander too close to AF-1 and get's in a mix-up with the fighter escort, you can bet they won't take 'OOPS' for an answer...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:45:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:49:53 AM EST by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
You would THINK, that his flight plan would have been rejected or the tower would have told him not to leave/enter or something to prevent him from going up if he was not supposed to.



No flight plan is required for VFR flight, and not all airspace in the US requires you to get clearance to fly in it. Class E airspace being the principal one in question here. And the great majority of US general aviation airpots have no control towers of any kind.

The air and the sea are two places left in the US where people cannot easily get away with it by passing the buck and saying "someone should have warned/stopped/told me about it".

SWO daddy
Private Pilot
Single Engine Land
Instrument Rated
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:47:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
thanks for the info.

my father (part owner of a 150...many years ago) probably never read a notam in his life.

i wonder if the guy down the road from me that owns a couple of biplanes reads them before his evening jaunts around the countryside.



You, your dad, and your barnstorming neighbor can ignore NOTAMS all you want. Just don't squeal when the FAA bends you over.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:07:49 AM EST
dont care if its a dupe- I guess I am no going to search for every possible topic to be posted- especially one that i witnessed
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:10:00 AM EST
After 9-11 we got a constant reminder by Flight Service to brush up on our intercept proceedures. You are supposed to monitor guard 121.5 and obey the instructions given you.

I chase helium balloons over the city in the traffic watch 172 to pass time on slow days and can tell you that unless the F-16 driver is trained to engage targets with almost no airspeed it is the most difficult manuvering I have done in 5000 hours of flight spanning 17 years. I cannot imagine engaging or simply trying to intercept a target going 2 or 3 hundred knots slower than my aircraft. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 12:20:01 PM EST
FAA has different levels of revocation for different TFR violations. Presidential TFR violation? I believe is a 5 year revocation before you can appeal to get your license back. This has become a BIG pain in the ass up in Wisconsin here where we're a battleground state and there's a presidential campaign visit here every 10 minutes. Truly hoses up General aviation for those of us to fly for work.

Nonetheless...the FAA is VERY clear that it's your ass to violate a presidential TFR. And yes...the F16 will fly slow enough to get the attention of the cessna pilot. A 172 can do around 105 knots without wind helping it, a 182 can hold 140 knots easy..so depending on the cessna, this is all easy to see.

The F16 boys were lookin at the tail number so when the Cessna lands, there will be FAA boys and a few secret service cats hangin around to "chat" with the guy.

Signed

Kurt "Wanna buy a Cessna Cheap?" Austin
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