runnning two routers in series, is this posible?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - runnning two routers in series, is this posible?

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:02:46 PM EDT

Heres the deal, I have been running a regular router in my house for like 2 years. I just got this wireless router so i can run my laptop outside and anywhere in the house. I do not want to leave it on full time so someone can mooch off of my service or any malicious acts but also dont want the other computers affected because i am turning this router off. If I have to run it as the primary router, then I will.
I basically want to just use one of the open ports on the primary router and run the wireless one off of that. Is this possible? I am having difficulty using the "standard" installation included on a CD because the router isnt detecting any internet even though the service is working fine on my computers.

Any ideas on a solution here that works?

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:04:28 PM EDT

[#1]

Yes it is possible...but why not just setup your wireless router properly and not worry about turning it on and off?

You'll need to not use the stupid wizard cd's to do that - you'll actually need to learn a tiny amount of routing and ip addressing to get it to go.

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:05:38 PM EDT

[#2]

At first I was thinking woodworking and I was wondering, "what the fuck kind of contraption is he even describing, never mind why?"

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:07:36 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Yes it is possible...but why not just setup your wireless router properly and not worry about turning it on and off?

You'll need to not use the stupid wizard cd's to do that - you'll actually need to learn a tiny amount of routing and ip addressing to get it to go.

ok. Can you dumb it down for me? computers and cell phones are my enemy

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:07:54 PM EDT

[#4]

I run a firewall/router/switch and then an additional wireless router downstream for my laptop. I have DHCP disabled on the wireless router, so all DHCP duties are handled by the primary.

There are plenty of way to ensure that nobody can mooch your bandwidth. You can easily set up permissions on the wireless router to only allow access to certain MAC addresses for example. My wireless router will only allow access to a single MAC address, and that particular MAC is the one used by the wireless card on my laptop

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:09:23 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes it is possible...but why not just setup your wireless router properly and not worry about turning it on and off?

You'll need to not use the stupid wizard cd's to do that - you'll actually need to learn a tiny amount of routing and ip addressing to get it to go.

ok. Can you dumb it down for me? computers and cell phones are my enemy

replace your original router with the wireless one. run the cd that came with it and it will help you setup encryption, and other security features

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:10:51 PM EDT

[#6]

connect the wireless to the primary with a cross over cable.

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:11:55 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
connect the wireless to the primary with a cross over cable.

will do and report back.

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:15:58 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
connect the wireless to the primary with a cross over cable.
will do and report back.

that didnt work

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:17:28 PM EDT

[#9]

Connect the two with a normal cable, from a normal port on your original router, to the 'uplink' or WAN port on the new one.

Kharn

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:19:56 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
connect the wireless to the primary with a cross over cable.
will do and report back.

that didnt work

did you connect port to port? or did you use the "internet" connection on the second router? it needs to be port to port. also dhcp will still need to be enabled on the second.

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:23:50 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
connect the wireless to the primary with a cross over cable.

if you are using the same brand equipment it will not work, they will both have the gateway address of EX: 192.168.1.1

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:30:03 PM EDT

[#12]

It can be done, but its not recommended due to all the reasons here. If you HAVE to do it I'd recommend one solution here. Turn off dhcp on the wifi router and hook its lan port into your other router.

Better solution, just use the wifi router and figure out how to properly secure it using WEP/WAP and MAC access lists.

-Foxxz

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:36:33 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
connect the wireless to the primary with a cross over cable.
will do and report back.

that didnt work

did you connect port to port? or did you use the "internet" connection on the second router? it needs to be port to port. also dhcp will still need to be enabled on the second.

i tried both, no work. I even said screw it and tried to install the new router as the only router and it isnt detecting connection nor will it allow me to tap right into it with the link in the instructions.
The wireless is a net gear and the one i have always had is a linksys.

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:37:51 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
It can be done, but its not recommended due to all the reasons here. If you HAVE to do it I'd recommend one solution here. Turn off dhcp on the wifi router and hook its lan port into your other router.

Better solution, just use the wifi router and figure out how to properly secure it using WEP/WAP and MAC access lists.

-Foxxz

thank you

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:39:37 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It can be done, but its not recommended due to all the reasons here. If you HAVE to do it I'd recommend one solution here. Turn off dhcp on the wifi router and hook its lan port into your other router.

Better solution, just use the wifi router and figure out how to properly secure it using WEP/WAP and MAC access lists.

-Foxxz

thank you

this is what i will do for now

thanks

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:44:20 PM EDT

[#16]

Here is your scenario in laymans terms.

Router internal network address(default gateway) 192.168.1.1, Assign your Access point 192.168.1.2,
Routers external address should be DHCP from your provider
Disable DHCP on your wireless access point. Clients will gather DHCP leases from your router
Do not plug anything into the "WAN" port on your access point since that is considered an external segment.
Use a crossover cable if required in order to obtain a "link light" on both your router and your access point

Posted: 9/23/2005 2:31:09 PM EDT

[#17]

I am running two routers in series at work... one is the company's router with a cable coming to my desk. And I have a router on my desk with the LAN line from the company's router plugged into the WAN port on MY wireless router. I accessed MY router as per instrutions by opening my browser and entering the address 192.168.0.1 (which is the default address of DLink routers). This can be changed if need be.

Then I ran the wizard, and entered my assigned IP address, gateway, etc, as given to me by my company. I set MY computer (and the other computers I plug into this same wireless router) to automatically detect IP address, etc.

IF my company did not assign IP addresses, I could set the router to automatically detect.

No crossover cables required.

And when I am not at work, I simply unplug MY wireless router.

Which I think this is what you want to do.

Posted: 9/23/2005 2:44:45 PM EDT

[#18]

the new router wont even work alone connected directly to the modem. Its not detecting a connection for some reason. I tried resetting it a few times, unplugging the modem and router and plugging the modem in, waiting 5 minutes then plugging the new router in with no luck.
going to call netgear and see what the problem is

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:01:15 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
the new router wont even work alone connected directly to the modem. Its not detecting a connection for some reason. I tried resetting it a few times, unplugging the modem and router and plugging the modem in, waiting 5 minutes then plugging the new router in with no luck.
going to call netgear and see what the problem is

Most routers have a reset button on them. If you have a netgear MR814 its next to the antenna behind a small hole. hold the button down a few seconds with the router on and it should reset to factory defaults. turn everything off. turn on modem first. then power on router several a minute after the modem, and then the computer. if this doesnt work, then it is too hard to explain here

-foxxz

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:06:28 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
You can easily set up permissions on the wireless router to only allow access to certain MAC addresses for example. My wireless router will only allow access to a single MAC address, and that particular MAC is the one used by the wireless card on my laptop

MAC address can be easily spoofed, its a feel good measure, not much more.

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:18:15 PM EDT

[#21]

What he said. I have the same setup due to a couple reasons.

1, force the kids only at 11 but leave the wife and me at 54.
2, I had an extra b router lying around
3, I wanted the newer router to be my firewall etc.
4, I needed a switch in my office for the printer and other computers.

I highly recommend you set it up sitting next to both routers and plug, not wireless for the setting up. Get it working wired first, then add in the wireless. In my house I do use seperate SSID's and weps. Also makes it easy for me to turn it off for the kids.

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:22:02 PM EDT

[#22]

I would not do it. Getting it to work correctly, when you don't know what you're doing, is going to be a bitch, especially when something breaks or you need to forward ports.

If you want to turn your wireless on and off seperately from your wired router, purchase and plug a stand-alone Wireless AP into your main router. Then you can plug and unplug your wireless as much as you want. Of course, if you just use encryption, MAC filtering, etc. you will not have a problem with anyone "mooching" off of you.

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:29:07 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You can easily set up permissions on the wireless router to only allow access to certain MAC addresses for example. My wireless router will only allow access to a single MAC address, and that particular MAC is the one used by the wireless card on my laptop

MAC address can be easily spoofed, its a feel good measure, not much more.

Actually, that will stop 99% of people from "mooching".

If you're worried about information security, you should either learn about it, have it configured/installed professionally, or throw it in the trash.

If you're worried about mooching, WEP and/or MAC filters are sufficient.

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:49:38 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I run a firewall/router/switch and then an additional wireless router downstream for my laptop. I have DHCP disabled on the wireless router, so all DHCP duties are handled by the primary.

There are plenty of way to ensure that nobody can mooch your bandwidth. You can easily set up permissions on the wireless router to only allow access to certain MAC addresses for example. My wireless router will only allow access to a single MAC address, and that particular MAC is the one used by the wireless card on my laptop

I've had tandem NAT Firewalls in my house for years. Its not hard to setup and allows you to have several security zones. You can have a kid zone and you can have an adult zone that the kids can't get to.

As previously gone over, I would setup your wireless router to be restricted to the MAC addresses of your wireless devices. I would also limit the total number of IP addresses given out by the wireless router.

Don't forget to turn on WEP or WAP and don't use an easily guessed wimpy encryption code. "12345678910" comes to mind....my ex-neighbors.

Go to this page and see how its done: Tandem NAT routers.

The nitty gritty bit and byte details are here: Tandem NAT Setup Details
Just go step by step and you can be up and running in 15 minutes.

You can listen how to do it here: Listen Here

When you get all this done test your setup using Sheilds Up: Sheilds Up

Posted: 9/23/2005 4:12:32 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It can be done, but its not recommended due to all the reasons here. If you HAVE to do it I'd recommend one solution here. Turn off dhcp on the wifi router and hook its lan port into your other router.

Better solution, just use the wifi router and figure out how to properly secure it using WEP/WAP and MAC access lists.

-Foxxz

thank you

Not so quick. There are advantages to having a wireless router (configured as a WAP) attached to a wired router. It is easy to setup and works very well in a large house.

MAC access lists add nothing to wireless security.

Posted: 9/23/2005 4:19:12 PM EDT

[#26]

Does your wired router have multiple ports? If so, take back the wireless router, and get yourself a wireless access point. All IT does is add wireless functionality to your wired network (in this case, your router). Set it up with all the security measures (get one that doesn't have WEP, but WPA), and leave it up and running.

Posted: 9/23/2005 4:50:38 PM EDT

[#27]

George Ou has written some extremely useful articles about wireless security and networking.

Building the home network of your dreams

The six dumbest ways to secure a wireless LAN

Posted: 9/23/2005 4:59:25 PM EDT

[#28]

i dont know what the hell i did, but i am surfing from the second router in series hard wired. Next to check the wireless.
I remember assigning this a static port on was finally able to get inside to disable dchp thing.
Now the next mountain, getting it to work with the wifi card.

Posted: 9/23/2005 5:08:35 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
i dont know what the hell i did, but i am surfing from the second router in series hard wired. Next to check the wireless.
I remember assigning this a static port on was finally able to get inside to disable dchp thing.
Now the next mountain, getting it to work with the wifi card.

wireless is working
only took a few hours

Posted: 9/23/2005 5:18:32 PM EDT

[#30]

running 2 routers connected to each other is much more of a pain than configuring the security on just the wireless
and I think some wireless routers can have the wireless part turned off from the config screen that you go to from any of the connected computers

Posted: 9/23/2005 5:22:51 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Actually, that will stop 99% of people from "mooching".

If you're worried about information security, you should either learn about it, have it configured/installed professionally, or throw it in the trash.

If you're worried about mooching, WEP and/or MAC filters are sufficient.

If all you care about is moochers, SSID hide and WEP. That will do what you are talking about.

"The bottom line is, MAC filtering takes the most effort to manage with zero ROI (return on investment) in terms of security gain." I tend to agree, waste of time.

But its all apples and oranges depending on how you look at it. JM2Cs.

Posted: 9/23/2005 5:22:55 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
George Ou has written some extremely useful articles about wireless security and networking.

Building the home network of your dreams

The six dumbest ways to secure a wireless LAN

MAC access lists add nothing to wireless security.

MAC doesn;t help much. But every little bit helps. While we're at it, the link on the 6 dumbest ways to secure a wifi lan is a terrifically good read. That author sure can tear all those methods apart. And you know, he is right! But you know what he doesn't mention? A good way to secure a wifi lan! Thats because theire isn't a good solution what works. 99% of the time WEP will keep people off you access point.

Just because you can't fully secure your house doesn't mean you have to make it easy to get in

-Foxxz

Posted: 9/23/2005 6:01:41 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
And you know, he is right! But you know what he doesn't mention? A good way to secure a wifi lan!

Actually he does in my other link. There are additional links on configuring WPA or WPA2 security which is what you should be running. You have to dig around in his various blogs for some of his recommendations.

Posted: 9/23/2005 6:02:35 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
George Ou has written some extremely useful articles about wireless security and networking.

Building the home network of your dreams

The six dumbest ways to secure a wireless LAN

MAC access lists add nothing to wireless security.

MAC doesn;t help much. But every little bit helps. While we're at it, the link on the 6 dumbest ways to secure a wifi lan is a terrifically good read. That author sure can tear all those methods apart. And you know, he is right! But you know what he doesn't mention? A good way to secure a wifi lan! Thats because theire isn't a good solution what works. 99% of the time WEP will keep people off you access point.

Just because you can't fully secure your house doesn't mean you have to make it easy to get in

-Foxxz

You're absolutely right.

Nobody seems to figure this out - wireless is by its very nature insecure. It cannot be secured. Ever. If you keep that thought in mind while deploying wireless you'll start to think of ways to isolate it and keep critical data away from it.

Posted: 9/23/2005 6:09:35 PM EDT

[#35]

This is a good tute for XP.

How to Secure Your Wireless Home Network with Windows XP

Posted: 9/23/2005 6:18:43 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Nobody seems to figure this out - wireless is by its very nature insecure. It cannot be secured. Ever.

You can create a very secure network. You just couldn't afford the cost of the hardware and software required to do it for your home network though. There is nothing that is 100% secure at any cost.

You should be using WPA/WPA2 and not WEP for your home wireless network.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - runnning two routers in series, is this posible?

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