how does it work ?

iv got a trust thru gear hog... ( well i will when i tell them what to put on it, its already paid for)....

so, to START the paperwork for the sbr, i need what??

is this basically how it works??????

1. buy gun to sbr or lower..........
2. have trust..... LISTING the gun / lower and ser number....
3. fill out atf paperwork....   listing gun / lower / serial number
4. email / mail paperwork,...including the check to the atf...
5. wait 3-5 months.....for stamp
6. engrave trust name and info on the gun / lower
7. assemble / take posession of the gun
8. profit??

Get trust.  Buy lower.  Fill out paperwork.  E-file.  Wait 21 days.  Stamp.

Don't you have to work in engraving somewhere in there?

Not if you have a trust IIRC

I too picked up that gun trust from 199trust. I was going to do the SBR thing also. Ended up building a pistol and just used the sig brace to mimic the butt stock . Going to use the trust for a suppressor (eventually)...

Negative.  You must engrave your SBR as well.  I left it out.

I think you still have to get it engraved. I think.. You just put the name of the trust on the lower.

40 day wait to get mine back.

really? only 21 days.  i figured it would be the usual 6 months.

Not for Eforms.

 

E-file?

I thought those guys were moving faster or is that faster . Oh wait, .Gov ATF move fast , ha I made a funny.

Some folks like to have their lower engraved before sending off the paperwork.  If something happens to the lower during the engraving process or shipping it back and forth you'll have a nice stamp with no lower.

Here is what I have gathered:

Ever since efile for form 1's came back, they have increased their turnaround time significantly. They hired some more staff over at the ATF.

In regard to the trust, engraving is required if you are the manufacturer (form 1). But if you are buying a SBR (transfer) then you do not need to engrave.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, you don't need to list the "future" SBR on your trust.  Just put something tangible like $1 or $20, or a coffee mug.

i was worried about that too..... a typo in the engraving, and the lower is ruined for the nfa item.... correct??

If you're buying a factory SBR, you do not need to engrave, but at that point you're not doing a form 1 either.

 

you dont NEED the gun / lower listed in your trust, when you file the eform?

no

No you do not.

Whether or not you need anything in your trust to make it official is up to debate, I think it has a lot to do with state laws but most just put a dollar or something small inside the trust to begin with.




Edit*
I E-filed last tuesday, hopefully I filled everything out correctly.

No, because technically you can't make the SBR until you have the stamp.

Technically, no, it's not ruined. You actually have a couple of options.

Option 1: Engrave the same lower a second time. If the error was the engraver's fault, make them do it gratis. Of course, your SBR now has enough engraving on it to be easily confused for a Ruger product.

Option 2: Write a letter to BATFE, notifying them that the SBR was never made, and that you are requesting a refund. The refund will take between 1-6 months, depending on how busy BATFE isand how quickly the Treasury cuts the check. Then, having learned your lesson, choose another lower, have it engraved, and, upon satisfaction it is done properly, submit a new Form 1 for that lower.

No. You can obliterate that marking, and have the correct marking done. It isnt the serial number, so you're fine.

whats the difference between building a sbr with a lower..... vs... buying a factory sbr???


i mean about the engraving..... and how you do the paperwork?   someone mentioned you dont do a form 1 on a factory sbr??

Here's a visual guide to Form 1s thanks to BigWaylon. Link.

Form 4?  Which means no e-file right?

Factory SBR is transferring an existing NFA item.  (form 4)

Form 1 creates an NFA item (as an individual or trust)

A FActory lower is already engraved with the manufacturers info.  When you sbr, you essentially become the NFA item manufacturer, so it needs to be engraved with your info.

A Form 1 is an Application to Make and Register an NFA Firearm. A Form 4 is an Application for Tax-Paid Transfer of an NFA Firearm.

When a factory SBR is manufactured, the manufacturer engraves it with their information and files a Form 2. When they sell it, the SBR transfers on a Form 4, with no further engraving necessary.

When a non-FFL (or an FFL who is not a Type 07 FFL /Class 2 SOT) makes an SBR, they file a Form 1 and must engrave their name, city, and State, on the firearm, as is required of anybody who makes or manufactures an NFA firearm.

It's kind of important to know that the BATFE makes a big distinction between making and manufacturing. Making a firearm doesn't require an FFL, as the guns are made for personal use. Manufacturing requires an FFL, as the guns are being manufactured for commerce.

oh. ok.. that makes sense... so if i buy a factory sbr... i just do the same process, EXCEPT its a form 4, instead of a form 1..... and no engraving. correct?

If you buy a factory SBR, then you would do a Form 4, as you would just be transferring a completed rifle.  If you"make" an SBR from a lower, that is when you use Form 1, since you are the one actually making the rifle,  No engraving needed on the factory, because the manufacturer/maker will have their mark on it.  Form 4 wait times are currently 5-6 months and Form  1 is about 1 month if you do it online through eforms.  Eforms is not working for Form 4 currently.  Visit the FAQ in the General Class 3 section of the Armory on this site.

Dang it, beat by 5 minutes

im very seriously considering starting this process in a few days... by  sbring a rifle i already own most likely, as its the cheapest way for me to go at the moment.

OH ! !   i didnt know that......

yup.... if a reg lower is 21 days, and a sbr factory is 6 months.. ill damn sure go for the lower ! !

Trusts don't trump federal law..



27 CFR 479.102 - How must firearms be identified?



§ 479.102 How must firearms be identified?

(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.

(b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).



 

Use someone who's engraved firearms and who has samples of their work, not "Uncle Billy-Bob's Bait Shop and SBR Engraving Serivicies".  

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oh. ok.. that makes sense... so if i buy a factory sbr... i just do the same process, EXCEPT its a form 4, instead of a form 1..... and no engraving. correct?

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whats the difference between building a sbr with a lower..... vs... buying a factory sbr???


i mean about the engraving..... and how you do the paperwork?   someone mentioned you dont do a form 1 on a factory sbr??

Factory SBR is transferring an existing NFA item.  (form 4)

Form 1 creates an NFA item (as an individual or trust)

A FActory lower is already engraved with the manufacturers info.  When you sbr, you essentially become the NFA item manufacturer, so it needs to be engraved with your info.

oh. ok.. that makes sense... so if i buy a factory sbr... i just do the same process, EXCEPT its a form 4, instead of a form 1..... and no engraving. correct?

It is the same process, as in sent $$ to ATF and wait.

One big difference is if you take an existing lower and SBR it, you can have possession of it.  You cannot put the short barrel on it until you have possession of the stamp.  (and requires engraving)

If you buy a factory SBR, you dealer will have to keep it until the stamp arrives.  (no additional engraving required)

I would assemble and function test the lower before sending the Form 1 off for it.

The first lower I SBR'd I didn't assemble until I got the stamp back, then discovered the G_D lower was out of spec.    I sent it back to the manufacturer who destroyed and remade it with the same serial number.  But that added three months to the wait.  

After that experience, I engrave, assemble, function test, then send the Form 1 paperwork off.   I might even build it into a pistol while waiting for the stamp.

That's why I always engraved mine before sending the stamp.

Why would you egrave the lower, when it is the upper that is the SBR part of the pair?

eta: serial # i get that part, but a lower is a lower.

So, with regard to this:

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm;

I am an AL resident stationed in MS.  I dont' have a trust yet.  Should my trust be from my home of record in AL?  When I engrave, should it be my trust location wherever that might be with regard to the first question? Or where I phsically made the NFA item?

E-file is 30-60 days right now so don't get the ants in your pants too excited at day 21

I build the lower as a Title 1 gun, make sure it functions, then send it off to Ident and have it engraved on the right side above the pins.  You can send the whole lower to them and just take off the stock and take out the buffer and spring.

I also engrave it before the stamp comes back so I can cancel the stamp if it gets damaged/lost while engraving.

My Trust requires an assignment sheet for each item so I had to put that with the copy of the Trust when filing my form.

My lawyer advised me to list whatever I was papering (form1 or form4) as an asset of the trust in "Schedule A" with the note "transfer (or build) pending" for items awaiting transfer or build. Once the stamp is received, take possession or build the item on behalf of the Trust and then strike the "pending" note out (single line) initial and date. The Trust can have assets without having possession. In any case it is important to document that the Trust actually owns the NFA item listed on your form 1 or 4.


If any of you do differently, that is fine. For me, I am following the advice of my Attorney (who is also an NFA collector).

Lower is a firearm.

If only there was an entire forum on this site devoted to this very subject...