ok. first off, love all of u (no homo). i bring this ? here because its the best place on the planet to do so. ive purchased a smith& wesson m$p 10. its optics ready with the picatinny rail. shoots 7.62x51/308. been looking at a leupold mark AR 6-18x40 scope. its my understanding this scope is calibrated for the 5.56 round. so would i replace the knob with one this is calibrated to 308? or buy a different scope that is 308 specific??
thanks in advance guys!!

Another option is buy a scope that is not configured to any cartridge and learn the gun's dope.

Rule of thumb on scopes: spend as much on your glass as you did the rifle.  A Leupold Mark 4 LR/T would be a better optic for your rifle if you are going with Leupold.  The Mark AR rifle scopes are an economy scope Leupold put out specific to the 5.56 round and cannot be modified to work with the trajectory of a 308/ 7.62 NATO.  Don't try to economize on your glass - you will always be left wanting if you do.

ok. thank you. is the leupold mark 4 specific to the 308 round?

There are multiple options that are better than the Mark AR.  That's probably the worst value in their line-up.

I wouldn't get hung up on caliber-specific hash marks.  They may not be spot-on for your rifle, and different bullets/loads are going to have different POIs.  They make a ton of sense for combat optics like an Acog, but I wouldn't make that feature a factor for a hunting/target scope.

No two .308 rounds have the exact same trajectory.
You need a mildot scope and learn the DOPE for your particular rifle/load

This, Everyone has it so easy now a days. Learn the basics, you can never go wrong. Wait till you start shooting uphills & downhills.

ok. thank you guys!

My thoughts too.

I have a Zeiss Conquest with the 308 Rapid-Z 1000 reticle that works wonders for fast acquisition between targets on my AR10.  The so called distance marks on the scope might night be pin-point, but from 100-700 it'll have me on paper and I can make small adjustments from there.





This is exactly right.  I have been working on my reloads to closely match my scope, and while it is convenient for getting hits on paper quicker on various distance targets,  Looking back, if I was to do it all over again, I would purchase a Night Force with a good Mil-dot reticle now.

You can also do DOPE with a moa scope if that makes the math easier in your head.  The most important thing is that the adjustment increments match the reticle.  If you have a moa reticle you want moa adjustments.  Mildot reticle is easier with mildot adjustment.  Or you can be a purist and have a mildot reticle with moa adjustments and do the math.  Then there is first focal plane and second focal plane.

Forgot to ask: where & how much?

ShiftSix what mount are you using?

What he said.

Buy once, cry once. I'm constantly amazed at shooters who buy silly accurate rifles and then put cheap scopes on them that won't hold zero in three minutes of angle.

OP, you seem to be on the right track, looking at quality sights. Now the question is, what exactly do you want to do with it? 6-18 is a lot of scope. If you are planning to use it for 600 meter shots, it's great. If not, you're spending money on something you'll never use, that will be unwieldy, and will limit your abilities at close ranges. If you don't have to buy the most expensive scope, buy the one that fills your need, then spend the rest of the money on ammunition and go run the rifle through its paces. You can do much better with a good scope and a pile of ammunition than with a top of the line scope and very little money to go shoot it.

I have a LaRue mount on it.  I bought it about 4/5 years ago so it doesn't have any MOA tilt in it.  If my memory serves correctly its the QD LT-104 mount, but I am at work so I wont be able to check till later tonight

Here's the side profile of my AR10

ShiftSix Very nice thanks.

If you were getting one now would you get the one with the moa built in?

I'm looking to scope my FNAR with something very similar to your setup.

What is the model number on your glass?

You know, that is a good question.  I have not found the lack of tilt to hinder me at all... But I suppose if thats the new thing thats all the rage haha it couldnt hurt seeing my mount and the new one are the same price.  I would just look at what kind of shooting you'll be doing and see if the added MOA tilt of the mount would benefit you in any way.   The scope is a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50 w/Rapid-Z 1000 reticle.   But keep in mind I purchased this scope nearly 5 years ago, so I am unsure if it is still in their current line up.   Overall it's been great, it holds zero well, and so does the mount with multiple removing and re-attaching and the glass is super clear.  If my memory serves correctly the scope was around $1100 back then when I bought it.

Hope this helps some

If you want a scope in that range of magnification, get the NightForce and be done with it.

Don't depend on your reticle for drop charts... depend on it for ranging and making scope adjustments.... get a first focal plane if you can afford it.... Vortex PSTs are pretty nice too for that feature... changing the bullet weight changes everything.....  Even more important than that is learning your bullet drops are learning the wind....

I shoot out past the 1000yd line all the time with 7.62, 300wm and, 375CT.... your elevation changes ( even if you use temp sensitive powder ) based on things like humidity and temperature by quite a bit at that range.... don't depend on some idiot knob.  If you're shooting about an average 175gr bullet at 1000yds with your 7.62x51,  a 1mph cross wind is worth 10 inches in windage down range.

If you're looking for a real scope at the zoom you mention, the NightForce is the right price range you're probably at.  The scope is literally bullet proof.  I own a 5.5x22x56 and I can't say enough good things about it.  There is a version in the 15x range that is probably what you're looking for  I put a Vortex PST on my 7.62, a 5.5x22x56 NightForce on my 300wm and, I put a 10-42x80mm U.S. Optics SN-9 on my 375CT

I agree,  When I bought my rifle and scope, I wanted something I could transition quickly between targets varying from 100-700m  My Zeiss scope accomplishes this task well for me. (obvously it isnt perfect bullseyes at all those distances because there are outside factors the reticle does not account for.  but it gets you on paper and close enough where only slight adjustments are needed for elevation.)  wind is a different factor completely as you'll have to adjust for it either way you go.   If I was looking for a scope for pin point accuracy, and taking my time, I would own something like what you mentioned, and will be when I buy my bolt gun.  

I also agree.  It's choosing the right tool for the right job.

I put the Vortex PST on the 7.62 semi auto.  It will zoom from 6.5 to 24x and is first focal plane.  If I know my drops, I just see them in the reticle and since it's first focal plane, the hash marks work at any zoom level.

I guess it really just depends on what you're looking for.  I spent more on my bolt rifles with the NF and U.S.O.

got it from gunbroker. a place in oregon. $1699 plus 35 shipping. overpriced i know. but local gun stores in CA wanted $2000 plus tax with no ETA on when it would come in. i had to pull the trigger before CA bans all rifles with detachable mags. which is what they wanna do. hard enough to find a CA compliant version of these and when you do the price is marked up because they know CA buyers will pay it.... like myself i suppose....

thanks everyone. this gives me a lot to research and think on. i guess what i want is a decent mid range battle rifle. whats mid range? 500 to 1000 yards?

You will be best off if you don't do the BDC reticule.



If you have a good place to do this, first set your point blank zero. I always go with 200 which is good for 223 75 grain and most 308 loads. Then use a ballistics calculator to determine the zero for 300, and perfect it shooting at 300. Keep doing this every hundred yards until you are satisfied.



I have done this at 200,300 and 500 with the AR15 at NRA high power matches. At this point, I have my dope memorized, but until that happens, keep accurate notes.



Another approximation that works good for 223 and I've heard works for 308 is to zero at 200, and increase 3MOA per 100 yards. This should work well out to 600.



Another important step if doing this for iron sights (I'm not sure if this applies to scopes, but I don't see why not) is to count the clicks all the way down to bottom after you get your point blank zero. That way, if you're adjusting for elevation in weird conditions, lose count or accidentally bump the knob, you can instantly click back up to zero without having to go sight it in again.



I intend to get into precision bolt guns next, at which point I will try to dope from 200 to 600. If you want to be able to estimate range to target without a laser range finder, consider a mil-dot reticule. This is a means for estimating range.

thanks everyone. i think i need to find an article that explains what is 1st focal plane and 2nd focal plane....basically need to find like a FAQ for begginners

First focal plane explanation:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XgugJSqpoE


Here's a good resouce for precision shooting in general:  http://www.6mmbr.com   It's more for the benchrest croud but, if you want to know how to make a rifle accurate, that's one of the places you start... also, snipershide.com is a treasure trough off knowledge.  There is also a semi-auto section there.  You may want to bounce questions off guys there too.

I'd recommend the Vortex PST in first focal plane...  you can usually pick them up for under 1000.00

Well, let me get in here and stir the pot.

I disagree with the posters that demand you buy a $2000 Nightforce with the old " buy once, cry once "saw.

Here's why: You don't know what you want.

Scopes today, with CNC machining, modern glass and coating technologies are light years ahead of what they were 20 years ago. You get a lot more scope for your money, even with the budget ones.

Since you are unfamilier with scopes, using scopes, shooting with scopes, and have no idea what you want to do with it, you should start small, and work up.

Don't buy a Ferrari to learn how to drive on.

Buy a cheap scope or two, and figure out what you like. Get a 1-4 X 32 and try it. Get a 6-24 X 40 and try it. Cheap scopes, for the most part, will get the job done, not a good as an expensive one, but well enough to point you where you want to go.

I am a poorly payed civil servent supporting a family, so my shooting is always on a budget, family needs come first. There's no Nightforce or Husquamaws in my future. Budget scopes or no scopes for me. So I know what can be done with cheap glass.

A lot.

Especially if your shooting is going to be primarily at the range, on bright sunny days.

I shot this group at 300 yards with a Mauser I built (6.5 X 55 AI) with a 25 year old Simmons 3-9 X 40 that's been riding on hunting rifles, my M-14S and shop drawers it's whole life. beat to crap,and probably cost $40 brand new.


I shot this group with my AR with a $60 Barska 6-24 X40 I bought used at a pawn shop.



And I killed this Mulie at 364 yards with my Ruger Number 1 .270 with a $40 Tasco 3-9 X 40



My point being, you should start cheap, because cheap will work. Then, once you know what you really like, and really want, spend as much as you can afford to buy the RIGHT scope for You.

The better the scope, the better the features, the longer you can see in low light, the clearer and less distorted the image is, the more repeatable your adjustments, and the more reliable the adjustments. But the higher you go in price, the closeer you get to the point of diminoushing returns. But cheap ain't a bad place to start.

ok cool thank you. i will definitely consider the cheap route. i appreciate your time!

Here's a great place to start with rifle scope info:  CLICK HERE

You will get a million answers on this. What I would say is don't get a cheap piece of shit that wont hold a zero, but at the same time don't go overboard. Unless you are an excellent shot, top end scopes may be a waste. If you are only a mediocre marksman, you will be the weak link well before you reach the limits of a great scope on a great rifle.

"Cheap" is subjective. A great scope (as in worth more than my used car) has the following characteristics, listed in order of importance.



Holds zero.

Tracks perfectly.

Good light transmission.



A scope that cannot hold zero is totally worthless. These are most of your under 200 scopes. Many really suck, others are just extremely fragile.



A hunting scope used at lower ranges only needs the scope to hold zero. If you never adjust it, you don't care about tracking, and at shorter ranges it doesn't need to be as bright as something being used at 600 to 1000 yards. These are most of your scopes in the 200 to 300 dollar range.



The next step up will hold zero and track perfectly. These are most of your 300-800 optics.



After that tier, you're buying based on warranty and superb clarity/light transmission.



 

There are a lot more features.

One mentioned was a built in bullet drop compensator ( not recommended) pre-set for certain calibers or bullets.

mil-dot reticles or moa reticles that allow you, when set up with proper turrets to make extremely accurate adjustments at range.

First focal plane scopes that will allow you to use your reticle in coordination with your turrets at any zoom to make fast corrections or compensate for bullet drop or more importantly, windage by being able to hold over a precise adjustment.  I usually dial up my elevation but hold over my windage.  Wind can change from shot to shot on the long range..... it's easier to  hold over 3moa, for example, on one shot and then hold over 1.5 the next instead of trying to dial it in... but, you can hold over with a good scope reticle too.  FFP is better when trying to aquire targets quickly and at different distances.

Another one is zero stop.... that will allow you to move your scope up for any distance and then just twist it back down till the scope turret bottoms out and then you know you're back at your 100yd zero.

And Zeiss has the Rapid-Z calculator on its website, so you can tailor the reticle readings to your specific round and AO. Worked pretty damn well in the Conquest with the Z800 reticle for me!

Plus the Conquest line has been discontinued, so they can be found brand new for a deep discount...

Hard to beat Zeiss glass at that price point!

If it weren't for the ranging reticle, I would say yes to a 20MOA mount... The conquest is pretty lacking in the elevation department.

I was 2-2.5 inches high at 100 yards with an absolute zero. But with the Rapid Z reticle in the Conquest, you need to have a 200 yard zero for the reticle to work.

With my NightForce NSX, I can zero my 300wm at 500yds and hold under down to 100yds out to 500yds at zero then hold over out past the 1000yd line and never touch my turrets wih an NP-R1 reticle.  It's handy to be able to do at competitions with unknown distance targets that you have to range and shoot rapidly.  I can hold under up to 10moa and hold over 20moa... 1000yd targets only require about 26moa from a 100yd zero.   It's pretty cool not having to touch the scope at all for quckly aquired targets at range but, you have to know your rifle and gear to do it.

If I have time, I always dial the elevation though.... I only dial the 500yd zero for timed events with unknown distances.

It's much easier for us to help you once you decide two things. 1. What you are doing with you rifle (Which you sort of covered, as a mid range rifle, but get more specific. i.e. hunting, target shooting. SHTF, etc.) and 2. Your budget. We can narrow down the recommendations and give suggestions on the best bang for your buck in your budget range, or if there is a workable solution for you in that price range.

it would be a shtf rifle that i occassionally target shoot with. budget... id like to stay under $700-800

This is what you neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-15x42-Tactical-Rifle-Scope-P62238.aspx

Great thread.  I'd also like to mention the importance of a good install and scope mount.  This is especially important when it comes to heavier recoiling guns and/or long range shooting.  Rings that are not concentric and aligned will torque the scope causing zero, tracking and optical issues-- even eventually breaking scope and in the least puts ugly ring marks on the scope.  

Cheap flimsy scope mounts will shift under recoil causing a shifting zero.  

A reticle that is not leveled to the rifle and the horizon will cause windage errors during adjustments and at long range.

slowkota. thank you. will seriously consider that one!!! any mount ideas for that one for my picatinny rail? thanks!!

What if I just shoot Tula and wolf ?

 

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-spr-m4-scope-mount-qd-lt-104
A little pricey... But its a vital part of the equation.
You can never go wrong with a larue mount!

Iron sights