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Posted: 9/17/2009 11:14:33 AM EST
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/sep/17/tiny-t-rex-fossil



'Tiny T-rex' was only 2.7m from head to tail but had the powerful jaws and puny arms of Tyrannosaurus rex. Photograph: Todd Marshall/University of Chicago

Fossil hunters have unearthed the remains of a man-sized forerunner to the colossal Tyrannosaurus rex from an ancient lake bed in northeastern China.

The remarkable discovery has allowed dinosaur experts to piece together a picture of a diminutive but formidable predator that was so finely tuned to killing they describe it as "Jaws on legs".

The beast, named Raptorex kriegsteini, roamed the Earth 130m years ago, tens of millions of years before the giant T-rex became the most fearsome predator in history.

The finding has stunned palaeontologists because the skeleton resembles the larger tyrannosaurs in every respect except its size. Measurements of bones recovered from the site reveal that the new species was one hundredth the size of T-rex.

Analyses of the remains by researchers at the University of Chicago and the American Museum of Natural History in New York revealed the dinosaur to be a juvenile of five or six years old, measuring nearly 3m from nose to tail and weighing only 60kg (nine stone). A similar aged T-rex could weigh several tonnes.

Though smaller than its more celebrated descendant, Raptorex was the largest meat-eater of its time. It would have enjoyed a varied diet of parrot-beaked psittacosaurs, turtles, primitive birds and a host of small, scampering dinosaurs that would have watered at the ancient lakes it lived near.

The exquisite and almost complete remains only came to light when an American eye surgeon, Henry Kriegstein, telephoned the researchers to say he had bought the fossil from a trader. Paul Sereno at the University of Chicago agreed to document the fossil – and name it after the surgeon's father – on condition that the remains were returned to China afterwards.

The Chicago team has spent the past three years preparing and studying the fossil, which was lodged in a block of sediment removed from the Lujiatun lake beds in northeast China.

Writing in the US journal Science, the researchers describe the delicate operation to clean and prepare the skeleton. The skull was sent through an X-ray scanner at a Chicago hospital before moulds and casts of the bones were made. The X-rays revealed enlarged brain regions that suggest the creature had a highly evolved sense of smell.

The discovery overturns scientists' thinking about how Tyrannosaurus rex evolved. Many of the most striking features of the beast, such as its puny forearms, were thought to be a trade-off during the evolution of its enormous size, but Raptorex shows these features had already evolved more than 60m years earlier.

"So much of what we thought we knew about Tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be simplistic or out-and-out wrong," said Stephen Brusatte, a member of the team.

"The thinking has been that as tyrannosaurs developed to a truly giant size, they needed to modify their entire skeleton so they could function as predators.

"Raptorex, the new species, really throws a wrench into this observed pattern. Here we have an animal that's one 90th or one 100th the size of T. Rex, but with all the signature features, the big head, the strong muscles and the tiny little arms.

"We can now say these features didn't evolve as a consequence of body size, but rather they just evolved as a set of efficient predatory weapons," Brusatte added.

Raptorex had powerful legs to run down its prey and a huge muscular jaw with which to dispatch them. "This is a blueprint for a predator: Jaws on legs," Sereno said.

Researchers now believe that tyrannosaurs spent almost all of their time on Earth as small, flighty predators like Raptorex. As other large dinosaurs became extinct, this left the path clear for Raptorex to expand in body size and ultimately become the giant Tyrannosaurus rex. "When it did, there was no turning back until the asteroid hit," said Brusatte.

Sereno said Kriegstein agreed to donate the fossil remains to science if the species was named in honour of his father, Roman.

"The specimen was found perhaps in the dark of night and spirited out of China and ultimately sold. [Mr Kriegman] contacted me and wondered if I would describe it. I said I would if it could be returned 100%, lock, stock and barrel to science and ultimately back to China.

"I think he saw that there was a sense of immortality in having a dinosaur named after your family," Sereno said.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:16:30 AM EST
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:17:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Centuryhouse:


"So much of what we thought we knew about Tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be simplistic or out-and-out wrong," said Stephen Brusatte, a member of the team.




Add that to a long list of things we THINK we know about.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:17:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:18:29 AM EST

Sort of like a small house pet... not... Science is so cool!

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:30:00 AM EST
Reminds me of a Utah Raptor without the oversized foot talon.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:33:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Originally Posted By Centuryhouse:


"So much of what we thought we knew about Tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be simplistic or out-and-out wrong," said Stephen Brusatte, a member of the team.




Add that to a long list of things we THINK we know about.


Yep.

That thing they found just could be somebody's retarded cousin.

Let's all speculate on how these bones lived umteen million years ago.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:35:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 11:36:53 AM EST by 223Sauce]
Video Proof

....but they are the polish of the dinosaur world
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:36:49 AM EST
100th = exaggeration.

100th the weight maybe, but if they are referring to 100th the size then the t-rex would be 270m long (almost 900ft)
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:42:02 AM EST
'Tiny T-rex' was only 2.7m from head to tail

snip


Measurements of bones recovered from the site reveal that the new species was one hundredth the size of T-rex.


So T-Rex was 270 METERS LONG?

Somebody really sucks at math.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:44:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Feier:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.


http://www.viruete.com/victimas_del_guion/vg-jp.jpg

"Clever girl"
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:48:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By Feier:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.


http://www.viruete.com/victimas_del_guion/vg-jp.jpg

"Clever girl"

First thing that came to mind.

That's also the best part of the movie.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:49:44 AM EST
and for all we know T-Rex may not have been the ultimate expression of it's evolutionary bloodline. There may have been even bigger t-rex like carnivores.

the remains of the biggest sauropods probably haven't been found yet, if ever.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:51:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Feier:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.


http://www.viruete.com/victimas_del_guion/vg-jp.jpg


What could possibly go wrong?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:51:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.


They all taste like chicken. Honest.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:52:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Feier:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.


http://www.viruete.com/victimas_del_guion/vg-jp.jpg



That guy was a foreign idiot. I'm an American badass.



Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:52:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 11:52:36 AM EST by America-first]
Originally Posted By AR4U:
'Tiny T-rex' was only 2.7m from head to tail

snip


Measurements of bones recovered from the site reveal that the new species was one hundredth the size of T-rex.


So T-Rex was 270 METERS LONG?

Somebody really sucks at math.


Indeed.

Size as in body mass.

120 lbs versus 12,000.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:55:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By glk38:
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Originally Posted By Centuryhouse:


"So much of what we thought we knew about Tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be simplistic or out-and-out wrong," said Stephen Brusatte, a member of the team.




Add that to a long list of things we THINK we know about.


Yep.

That thing they found just could be somebody's retarded cousin.

Let's all speculate on how these bones lived umteen million years ago.

more importantly did this one not make it in time to board the Ark!?

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:55:39 AM EST
And we are positive this wasn't simply a baby T-Rex how?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:55:41 AM EST
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:59:47 AM EST


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:04:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
'Tiny T-rex' was only 2.7m from head to tail

snip


Measurements of bones recovered from the site reveal that the new species was one hundredth the size of T-rex.


So T-Rex was 270 METERS LONG?

Somebody really sucks at math.


Indeed.

Size as in body mass.

120 lbs versus 12,000.


Where's the Oh Snap! gif?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:04:52 PM EST
I fuckin love dinosaurs.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:05:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:
And we are positive this wasn't simply a baby T-Rex how?


The article gives the size & weight of a typical baby T-Rex, and its MUCH larger and heavier than this.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:08:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By MauserMark:

Originally Posted By glk38:
Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
Originally Posted By Centuryhouse:


"So much of what we thought we knew about Tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be simplistic or out-and-out wrong," said Stephen Brusatte, a member of the team.




Add that to a long list of things we THINK we know about.


Yep.

That thing they found just could be somebody's retarded cousin.

Let's all speculate on how these bones lived umteen million years ago.

more importantly did this one not make it in time to board the Ark!?



Apparently not.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:09:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:
And we are positive this wasn't simply a baby T-Rex how?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8259902.stm


Tiny ancestor is T rex blueprint
By Judith Burns
Science reporter, BBC News



raptorex skull
The skull of raptorex is dwarfed by the skull of a full sized dinosaur

A 3m-long (10ft) dinosaur fossil is a tiny blueprint for Tyrannosaurus rex but lived 60 million years earlier and was 1/90th of the size, say scientists.

In the journal Science, Paul Sereno, from the University of Chicago, says the fossil from China displays the same features as T rex but in miniature.

The new species, Raptorex kriegsteini, would have weighed around 65kg.

Scientists believe it could be the "missing link" between earlier species of dinosaur and T rex.

The find suggests that T rex's characteristic big head with enhanced jaw, relatively small forearms and huge back legs were inherited from this much smaller dinosaur, and that the body type changed little over the millennia except in size.

Long-armed relatives

In the past 10 years, fossils from earlier and more primitive species have been discovered in rocks between 100 and 176 million years old (Middle Jurassic to Early Cretaceous periods) in Europe, North America and China.

In short, much of what we thought we know about tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be either simplistic or out-and-out wrong
Stephen Brusatte, American Museum of Natural History

These previous finds have confirmed that the Tyrannosaur family of dinosaurs is descended from small-bodied, long-armed predecessors.

But there has been little evidence of a direct link between these relatively small dinosaurs and the massive fossils of T Rex.

The team believes that Raptorex kriegsteini is that link. It looks identical to a big T Rex, even down to the shape of the skull with its enlarged olfactory bulbs, which would have given it the same acute sense of smell as T Rex.

Paul Sereno describes the tiny dinosaur (Video: Chicago Media Initiatives Group)

Dr Sereno said: "It's as close to the proverbial missing link on a lineage as we might ever get for T Rex.

"From the teeth to the enlarged jaw muscles, the enlarged head, the small forelimbs, the lanky, running, long hind limbs with the compressed foot for hunting prey: we see this all, to our great surprise, in an animal that is basically the body weight of a human or 1/90th the size that ultimately this lineage would reach in T Rex at the end of the Cretaceous."

Theory overturned

The team believes that the new fossil completely overturns accepted opinion on the evolution of tyrannosaurs.

Until now it had been thought that their strange body shape evolved as a consequence of their large size.

The fossil record bears out the previous theory that as tyrannosaurs developed truly giant size over time, they needed to modify their entire skeletons so they could continue to function as a predators as they grew.

According to co-author Stephen Brusatte of the American Museum of Natural History in New York: "Raptorex, the new species, really throws a wrench into this observed pattern.
raptorex skeleton
The animal was entombed at the edge of a lake in north east China

"Here we have an animal that's 1/90th or 1/100th of the size of T rex, about my size, but with all the signature features - the big head, the strong muscles, the tiny little arms - that were thought to be necessary adaptations for a large body predator.

"So really we can say that these features did not evolve as a consequence of large body size but rather that they evolved as an efficient set of predatory weapons in an animal that was just 1/100th of the size of T rex and that lived 60 million years before T rex."

The fossil record tells us that tyrannosaurs only grew to huge sizes during the final 20 million years of the Cretaceous.

Dr Brusatte said: "So that means that for most of their evolutionary history, about 80% of the time that they were on Earth, tyrannosaurs were small animals that lived in the shadow of other types of very large dinosaur predators.

"In short, much of what we thought we know about tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be either simplistic or out-and-out wrong."

Fossil hunter

Dr Sereno estimates that this specimen of Raptorex kriegsteini was a young adult when it died.

The team made casts of the bones and reconstructed the animal as they believe it would have appeared. They think it would have been 1m high and that it would have had similar feathers to an ostrich.

It would have preyed on small birds and other smaller scampering animals that lived around the lake beds where it was discovered.


raptorex arm

The forearm of raptorex is a blueprint for that of an adult T Rex

The researchers say that fragments of sand and sediment on the skeleton indicate that it came from an area of northeastern China rich in fossils. It was dug up illicitly and spirited out of the country and ultimately sold.

It is named after Henry Kriegstein, a private collector, who bought it from a dealer. He contacted Dr Sereno three years ago, asked him to analyse the specimen, and agreed to give it back to science and ultimately to China. It is now in a museum in Inner Mongolia.

Mr Kriegstein is a co-author on the paper.

Dr Sereno said: "I hope this is a pathway that other important specimens will follow.

"This is more than just a Chinese specimen. It has given us some real insights into our own tyrannosaurs here in North America. So it really belongs to science. It belongs to the world."

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:09:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By krpind:
And we are positive this wasn't simply a baby T-Rex how?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8259902.stm


Tiny ancestor is T rex blueprint
By Judith Burns
Science reporter, BBC News



raptorex skull
The skull of raptorex is dwarfed by the skull of a full sized dinosaur

A 3m-long (10ft) dinosaur fossil is a tiny blueprint for Tyrannosaurus rex but lived 60 million years earlier and was 1/90th of the size, say scientists.

In the journal Science, Paul Sereno, from the University of Chicago, says the fossil from China displays the same features as T rex but in miniature.

The new species, Raptorex kriegsteini, would have weighed around 65kg.

Scientists believe it could be the "missing link" between earlier species of dinosaur and T rex.

The find suggests that T rex's characteristic big head with enhanced jaw, relatively small forearms and huge back legs were inherited from this much smaller dinosaur, and that the body type changed little over the millennia except in size.

Long-armed relatives

In the past 10 years, fossils from earlier and more primitive species have been discovered in rocks between 100 and 176 million years old (Middle Jurassic to Early Cretaceous periods) in Europe, North America and China.

In short, much of what we thought we know about tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be either simplistic or out-and-out wrong
Stephen Brusatte, American Museum of Natural History

These previous finds have confirmed that the Tyrannosaur family of dinosaurs is descended from small-bodied, long-armed predecessors.

But there has been little evidence of a direct link between these relatively small dinosaurs and the massive fossils of T Rex.

The team believes that Raptorex kriegsteini is that link. It looks identical to a big T Rex, even down to the shape of the skull with its enlarged olfactory bulbs, which would have given it the same acute sense of smell as T Rex.

Paul Sereno describes the tiny dinosaur (Video: Chicago Media Initiatives Group)

Dr Sereno said: "It's as close to the proverbial missing link on a lineage as we might ever get for T Rex.

"From the teeth to the enlarged jaw muscles, the enlarged head, the small forelimbs, the lanky, running, long hind limbs with the compressed foot for hunting prey: we see this all, to our great surprise, in an animal that is basically the body weight of a human or 1/90th the size that ultimately this lineage would reach in T Rex at the end of the Cretaceous."

Theory overturned

The team believes that the new fossil completely overturns accepted opinion on the evolution of tyrannosaurs.

Until now it had been thought that their strange body shape evolved as a consequence of their large size.

The fossil record bears out the previous theory that as tyrannosaurs developed truly giant size over time, they needed to modify their entire skeletons so they could continue to function as a predators as they grew.

According to co-author Stephen Brusatte of the American Museum of Natural History in New York: "Raptorex, the new species, really throws a wrench into this observed pattern.
raptorex skeleton
The animal was entombed at the edge of a lake in north east China

"Here we have an animal that's 1/90th or 1/100th of the size of T rex, about my size, but with all the signature features - the big head, the strong muscles, the tiny little arms - that were thought to be necessary adaptations for a large body predator.

"So really we can say that these features did not evolve as a consequence of large body size but rather that they evolved as an efficient set of predatory weapons in an animal that was just 1/100th of the size of T rex and that lived 60 million years before T rex."

The fossil record tells us that tyrannosaurs only grew to huge sizes during the final 20 million years of the Cretaceous.

Dr Brusatte said: "So that means that for most of their evolutionary history, about 80% of the time that they were on Earth, tyrannosaurs were small animals that lived in the shadow of other types of very large dinosaur predators.

"In short, much of what we thought we know about tyrannosaur evolution turns out to be either simplistic or out-and-out wrong."

Fossil hunter

Dr Sereno estimates that this specimen of Raptorex kriegsteini was a young adult when it died.

The team made casts of the bones and reconstructed the animal as they believe it would have appeared. They think it would have been 1m high and that it would have had similar feathers to an ostrich.

It would have preyed on small birds and other smaller scampering animals that lived around the lake beds where it was discovered.


raptorex arm

The forearm of raptorex is a blueprint for that of an adult T Rex

The researchers say that fragments of sand and sediment on the skeleton indicate that it came from an area of northeastern China rich in fossils. It was dug up illicitly and spirited out of the country and ultimately sold.

It is named after Henry Kriegstein, a private collector, who bought it from a dealer. He contacted Dr Sereno three years ago, asked him to analyse the specimen, and agreed to give it back to science and ultimately to China. It is now in a museum in Inner Mongolia.

Mr Kriegstein is a co-author on the paper.

Dr Sereno said: "I hope this is a pathway that other important specimens will follow.

"This is more than just a Chinese specimen. It has given us some real insights into our own tyrannosaurs here in North America. So it really belongs to science. It belongs to the world."

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:09:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:10:56 PM EST
Would Convergent Evolution come into play here?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:11:22 PM EST
I want my own cloned pet T-rex and I have since I was 6 years old and saw Jurassic Park.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:11:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By BigBore45:
and for all we know T-Rex may not have been the ultimate expression of it's evolutionary bloodline. There may have been even bigger t-rex like carnivores.

the remains of the biggest sauropods theropods probably haven't been found yet, if ever.


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:11:46 PM EST
How do we know that it wasn't a juvenile T-Rex?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:11:52 PM EST
Morons, it's just a baby T-rex.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:13:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:15:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spenser_Burrows:
I want my own cloned pet T-rex and I have since I was 6 years old and saw Jurassic Park.


You were six when that come out?! Man, I'm starting to feel old.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:16:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



From a later time frame than ones like T Rex, right? Like Archaeopterix?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:17:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:17:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spenser_Burrows:
I want my own cloned pet T-rex and I have since I was 6 years old and saw Jurassic Park.


I saw it twice in theaters and I was about the same age. It's been one of my all time favorites ever since.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:18:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
'Tiny T-rex' was only 2.7m from head to tail

snip


Measurements of bones recovered from the site reveal that the new species was one hundredth the size of T-rex.


So T-Rex was 270 METERS LONG?

Somebody really sucks at math.


Indeed.

Size as in body mass.

120 lbs versus 12,000.


Eh, I jumped the gun a bit. To me "size" implies dimensions, whereas "mass" or "weight" implies, well, mass. Guess I should read the whole article first
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:18:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



I don't doubt it. But have all the dinosours pictured as having feathers been found with feathers? Why does it always seem to be the predators shown to have feathers and not a brontosaurus or some other plant eater?

Have T-Rexes been found with feathers? The artists impression of this newfound TRex seems to think so.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:20:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 12:24:12 PM EST by jbombelli]
A normal T-Rex is 270 meters long?

HOLY SHIT! RUN!

That said, maybe it was just a midget. Midget T-Rex.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:20:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 12:22:25 PM EST by keroppl]
Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



From a later time frame than ones like T Rex, right? Like Archaeopterix?


the T-Rex is in the Coelurosauria clade which contains all feathered dinosaurs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelurosauria

This obviously excludes Sauropods (such as the brontosaurus)
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:21:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 12:26:47 PM EST by Cypselus]
Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



From a later time frame than ones like T Rex, right? Like Archaeopterix?

Archaeopteryx is millions of years older than this new fossil - Upper Jurassic vs. Lower Cretaceous.

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



I don't doubt it. But have all the dinosours pictured as having feathers been found with feathers? Why does it always seem to be the predators shown to have feathers and not a brontosaurus or some other plant eater?

Have T-Rexes been found with feathers? The artists impression of this newfound TRex seems to think so.

The carnivorous dinosaurs appear much more closely related to birds than do the herbivores, speaking generally. Artist's reconstructions are guesses. The skeletal and muscular anatomy can be known fairly well, but it's exceedingly rare, or was until the Chinese finds started coming to light in the 1990s, to find any sort of soft tissue preserved, and of course we have no idea what color they were.

I recall seeing a feathered apatosaur (long-necked sauropod) proposed in some book years and years ago.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:23:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



From a later time frame than ones like T Rex, right? Like Archaeopterix?

Archeopteryx lived in the Jurassic period about 145 million years ago, earlier than T-rex which lived in the Cretaceous about 65 million years ago.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:23:16 PM EST


That's an interesting adaptation of Del Parson's work.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:23:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By Feier:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.


http://www.viruete.com/victimas_del_guion/vg-jp.jpg



That guy was a foreign idiot. I'm an American badass.





In the novel, he was a Great White Hunter in Africa who did safaris and managed wildlife parks before getting hired at Jurassic Park. Not only did he survive in the novel, but he was blowing up raptors with a rocket launcher.


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:24:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Originally Posted By Spenser_Burrows:
I want my own cloned pet T-rex and I have since I was 6 years old and saw Jurassic Park.


I saw it twice in theaters and I was about the same age. It's been one of my all time favorites ever since.

I think I saw it at least 5 or 6 times in theaters.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:25:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 12:26:26 PM EST by AR4U]
Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



From a later time frame than ones like T Rex, right? Like Archaeopterix?


Microraptor was supposedly around 130 million years old, which would make it older than T-Rex. I don't know if there's anything pre-dating that.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:26:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By keroppl:
Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macman37:
They need to stop illustrating the dinos with feathers.


I've always thought the feathered dino drawings look wrong. I think they do that to push the idea that dinos evolved into modern birds.

Feathered dinosaurs have been found.



From a later time frame than ones like T Rex, right? Like Archaeopterix?


the T-Rex is in the Coelurosauria clade which contains all feathered dinosaurs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelurosauria

This obviously excludes Sauropods (such as the brontosaurus)


Ah, that is interesting. So the trait did seem to follow a specific "line" of dinosaurs.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:27:20 PM EST
If it already had feathewrs 60 million years before T Rex then T Rex should have been entirely covered with them and had wings to boot if evolution is to be believed. Has anyone tossed out the thought that full size T Rex's were covered in feathers yet?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:27:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Yall have no idea how much I would pay for a two or three day hunting safari in Jurassic Park.

We just might have the chance in the near future:



Q and A: Jack Horner Wants to Re-Create T. Rex From Chickens — What Could Possibly Go Wrong?

Flip the right genetic switches in a chicken embryo and you just might hatch a baby dino. Paleontologist Jack Horner intends to do it. He explains his scheme to rewind evolution in a new book, How to Build a Dinosaur: Extinction Doesn't Have to Be Forever. We asked him if there is anything—anything at all—that could possibly go wrong.

Wired: Dinochicken—walk me through the concept.

Jack Horner: Birds are descendants of dinosaurs. They carry their DNA. So in its early stages, a chicken embryo will develop dinosaur traits like a long tail, teeth, and three-fingered hands. If you can find the genes that cancel the tail and fuse the fingers to build a wing—and turn those genes off—you can grow animals with dinosaur characteristics.

Wired: It's a romantic idea, that dinosaurs can live on in bird form.

Horner: Dinosaurs are not extinct; they're still with us in this sense. Birds look different, but it's all cosmetic. By tweaking some genes, we can bring out the underlying similarities. Yes, it's a wild plan, but I like to think about things backwards.

Wired: You were a consultant on <cite>Jurassic Park</cite>... Should we be worried here?

Horner: Look, it's not like dinochicken will overrun the world. If he mates with a chicken, you still get a chicken. Eventually we might make animals that look more like dinosaurs, but we won't have velociraptors on the loose.

Wired: Thorny ethical issues?

Horner: If you think we're playing God, maybe. But we're already modifying plants and mice. I don't see a lot of people jumping up and down complaining about better tomatoes.

Wired: Are you getting flak from other researchers?

Horner: Scientists who play by someone else's rules don't have much chance of making discoveries.

Wired: The initial funding came out of your own pocket. Is money an issue?

Horner: It shouldn't cost more than a couple million dollars. That isn't a heck of a lot of money when it comes to big science.

Wired: What's the upside? What do you hope to gain from this?

Horner: Ultimately, we hope it can lead to a cure for genetic defects. Once we understand just how to control genes, we have the potential for spinal cord regeneration, bone regeneration, and so on. It might also give us plumper chickens.

Wired: It would certainly prove the creationists dead wrong.

Horner: Religion is about faith, not evidence. Comparing science and religion isn't like comparing apples and oranges—it's more like apples and sewing machines.

Wired: In your book, you envision getting dinochicken a spot on <cite>Oprah</cite>. Why?

Horner: The creature would be its own sound bite. It'll go a long way toward convincing people that we can learn a lot from this sort of experimentation—about biology, development, evolution. Otherwise we're just a bunch of wild scientists building monsters in our laboratories.





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