Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/31/2005 5:21:29 PM EDT
Ok, so you're living in a small neighborhood in a dry part of NO. You're not flooded out, but you fear looters, there are no NG troops or LEOs coming to your rescue. You gather all the able bodied men in your neighborhood, figure 15 guys. Two of them are BRD sufferers like yourself, 3 more are former military, another is retired LEO the rest are good guys but generally not miltary expirenced, but for the sake of this situation they know how to shoot a deer rifle. So total you have 8 M4geries, 4 20" A2geries, 3 shotguns of various makes, 2 SPR clones, a mess of various pistols, and a smattering of various deer rifles, goose/duck guns, some lever actions, even a blackpowder or two. All the military type rifles have plenty of mags and ammo, due to the BRD suffering guys arfcom nature, and the sporting arms have figure 5 or 6 boxes ammo each, and anough ammo for all the pistols to have 3 mags of ammo each. You're able to scrounge up 6 LBV type rigs, and some mil-surp bags, and pouches, 5 FRS radios, 3 older PAGST fragmentation vests, 2 Lvl IIa vest, 1 Lvl III vest, and someone has an interceptor vest they got surplus. You also get together 2 open top jeeps. All the former military personel you have with you are combat life-saving qualified, the former LEO is a bench rest shooter at the range. Everyone else is a decent shot, but only the BRDs guys and Military guys are familure with the AR system. Your overall goal is to secure your neighborhood and keep out the looters. But there are some questions I want you guys to consider as well.

1. How would you distribute the equipment and ammo you have in the above situation?
2. How would you deal with NG troops or LEOs showing up and not being able to recognize you as not being looters?
3. How would you secure the area and keep out looters?
4. Would you have the combat life-saving certified people give a crash course in first-aid to everyone?
5. Since you have the jeeps would you be making patrols out beyond your neighborhood and try and lend a hand to others?

Any other comments are welcome, I just want to see your guy's thoughts.

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:28:25 PM EDT
Give the Military weapons to the guys with Military training. Use them for patroling YOUR OWN neighborhood. Use the civilian guys as a last resort sniper/fire support unit.

As far as daling with LEO and NG troops. Post large banners around your AO stating that this area is being patrolled by armed citizens. This will let them know you are there and maybe discourage any would be bad guys.

Lastly, stick to your own area and don't start playing cowboy. It's strictly a defensive situation, if you make it offensive, you cross the line into criminal activity.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:34:07 PM EDT
If i lived in New Orleans,and was squared away enough to have those kinds of supplies, I would be in Texas right now.

YMMV
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:37:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Give the Military weapons to the guys with Military training. Use them for patroling YOUR OWN neighborhood. Use the civilian guys as a last resort sniper/fire support unit.

As far as daling with LEO and NG troops. Post large banners around your AO stating that this area is being patrolled by armed citizens. This will let them know you are there and maybe discourage any would be bad guys.

Lastly, stick to your own area and don't start playing cowboy. It's strictly a defensive situation, if you make it offensive, you cross the line into criminal activity.

Well put, but what about just going out and helping people get to safety? No need to go out and just shoot people.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:56:12 PM EDT
come on guys.....geez.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:11:13 PM EDT
bump, because it seems more likely what with things getting worse there.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:12:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 6:12:58 PM EDT by Enigma102083]
ooops! double tap
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:23:37 PM EDT
ok, i'll bite.

1--if you are only going to organize the able-bodied men, then you're already a narrow thinker and are probably going to get screwed. this is an urgent situation, and you'd need every single asset in order to make it through the situation. if you can't think clearly enough to find a use for the old, the women and the kids, you're a bad leader, and therefore need to recuse yourself. but here's the 15 guy plan...

2--call your "neighborhood" a 2 block by 2 block grid. call it about 100 meters of facing per side. 15 guys is not enough for even a 2-watch rotation. (see above) therefore, you need to consolidate down to a 2 block perimeter for personnel and material security. the rest is buffer zone/tac depth.

3--OP, OP, OP. first priority is early warning. you didn't mention binocs or other visaids. did you bother to look for them?

4--organization--coordination--chain of command. watch structure and commo procedures. supply inventory and consolidation. (remember those old women and kids that you didn't bother to organize? they can do something, it seems)

5--determine lines of movement/commo. rally points.

6--2 teams of 6 guys on opposing corners (say, NE and SW). 1 man OP and 2 man HQ. since you planned so poorly, there are only 3 guys awake on each corner at any given time. this isn't exactly good deterrence. HQ is quickly exhausted, and poor OP begins hallucinating after 48 straight hours awake. no support element. overall, it doesn't matter who gets what gear--if any baddies show up, you're in no condition to resist.



now, if you'd only bothered to mobilize all your assets, things might have worked out a bit differently.


Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:30:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 11:30:50 PM EDT by Enigma102083]

Originally Posted By sirensong:
ok, i'll bite.

1--if you are only going to organize the able-bodied men, then you're already a narrow thinker and are probably going to get screwed. this is an urgent situation, and you'd need every single asset in order to make it through the situation. if you can't think clearly enough to find a use for the old, the women and the kids, you're a bad leader, and therefore need to recuse yourself. but here's the 15 guy plan...

2--call your "neighborhood" a 2 block by 2 block grid. call it about 100 meters of facing per side. 15 guys is not enough for even a 2-watch rotation. (see above) therefore, you need to consolidate down to a 2 block perimeter for personnel and material security. the rest is buffer zone/tac depth.

3--OP, OP, OP. first priority is early warning. you didn't mention binocs or other visaids. did you bother to look for them?

4--organization--coordination--chain of command. watch structure and commo procedures. supply inventory and consolidation. (remember those old women and kids that you didn't bother to organize? they can do something, it seems)

5--determine lines of movement/commo. rally points.

6--2 teams of 6 guys on opposing corners (say, NE and SW). 1 man OP and 2 man HQ. since you planned so poorly, there are only 3 guys awake on each corner at any given time. this isn't exactly good deterrence. HQ is quickly exhausted, and poor OP begins hallucinating after 48 straight hours awake. no support element. overall, it doesn't matter who gets what gear--if any baddies show up, you're in no condition to resist.



now, if you'd only bothered to mobilize all your assets, things might have worked out a bit differently.





excellent, good analysiss of the given situation.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:32:56 AM EDT
upon rereading, that came across as more than a little abraisive, and i apologize for the tone.

it is certainly a worthwhile mental exercise, and one that i've worked on before. i've roughed out scenarios like this for the neighborhoods and apartment complexes of the people i'd be responsible for in dallas. every time, it was evident that organizing the people was more important than dividing up the gear and such.

as far as physical security, what i've come down to again and again is:

--establish a good OP.
--establish a good watch system and keep a reaction group centralized.
--establish a "general quarters" signal that everyone understands, and a procedure for everyone.
--minimize the number of vehicle entry points to the perimeter.
--keep your "gate guards" visible. deterrence is preferred over ambush.
--establish ROE, and make sure that all shooters know it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:08:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:
upon rereading, that came across as more than a little abraisive, and i apologize for the tone.

it is certainly a worthwhile mental exercise, and one that i've worked on before. i've roughed out scenarios like this for the neighborhoods and apartment complexes of the people i'd be responsible for in dallas. every time, it was evident that organizing the people was more important than dividing up the gear and such.

as far as physical security, what i've come down to again and again is:

--establish a good OP.
--establish a good watch system and keep a reaction group centralized.
--establish a "general quarters" signal that everyone understands, and a procedure for everyone.
--minimize the number of vehicle entry points to the perimeter.
--keep your "gate guards" visible. deterrence is preferred over ambush.
--establish ROE, and make sure that all shooters know it.



You seem to have things thought out. How about you adjust the above situation assuming that for every able boddied man, there's an apporpriate number of non-able boddies, and a certain number of youth and elderly. Sorry, I did feel your response was a bit abrasive, but I was willing to look past it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:16:38 PM EDT
Tag. Good thread.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:17:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Tag. Good thread.



Thanks, maybe I can stop trying to resurect it then
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:54:04 PM EDT
please believe that i'm not bailing out of the thread, but i just got home from work and am due back in 8 hours, so i hope you'll forgive me if i hold off until the weekend is over. i hope to see more discussion on this topic.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:47:43 PM EDT
bump for more discussion

maybe I should put BOTD in the title?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:13:56 AM EDT
another bump
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:18:09 AM EDT
Tagged for later when I'm awake.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:02:20 PM EDT
Step one is to quietly, quickly, and unobtrusively interview the .mil guys to see if one (or more) of them is better equipped to lead than am I, trying not to lose any "authority" until I knew for sure I wasn't turning my family's lives over to an Army Podiatrist or a Space Shuttle door gunner. If someone was more qualified than I, I'd use my considerable skills as a persuader/manipulator to ensure that he had the helm, and the respect and obedience of the rest of the newly-formed "tribe."

I would move the whole kit & caboodle (people & resources) to the most compact tolerable base, to shrink the perimeter (as another poster suggested). I would allow anybody (kids, non-gun people) who could move and was responsible to serve as perimeter lookouts, with defensive arms and instructions to lay low, watch, do not engage, return to base and report.

I would put some of the .mil guys in rotation on a high point (rooftop?) for a more sophisticated and comprehensive lookout - with the deer rifles for sniper coverage, which would go a long way to avoiding CQB. I have to think that if Bubba hits the ground with no chest before LaMont hears the shot, an approaching group of rabble will choose an alternate route. Make sure the perimeter watchers know to look back frequently to the highpoint for (primitive) signals.

I'd take the rest of the "skilled" people and assemble them into teams ready to move out and engage on reports by the perimeter watchers or the high-point .mil guys. They could sleep or do light work while on standby, but would be locked and loaded while their team was "up."

I don't think it would be responsible to widen the AO unless you had to send out a foraging team.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:24:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Step one is to quietly, quickly, and unobtrusively interview the .mil guys to see if one (or more) of them is better equipped to lead than am I, trying not to lose any "authority" until I knew for sure I wasn't turning my family's lives over to an Army Podiatrist or a Space Shuttle door gunner. If someone was more qualified than I, I'd use my considerable skills as a persuader/manipulator to ensure that he had the helm, and the respect and obedience of the rest of the newly-formed "tribe."

I would move the whole kit & caboodle (people & resources) to the most compact tolerable base, to shrink the perimeter (as another poster suggested). I would allow anybody (kids, non-gun people) who could move and was responsible to serve as perimeter lookouts, with defensive arms and instructions to lay low, watch, do not engage, return to base and report.

I would put some of the .mil guys in rotation on a high point (rooftop?) for a more sophisticated and comprehensive lookout - with the deer rifles for sniper coverage, which would go a long way to avoiding CQB. I have to think that if Bubba hits the ground with no chest before LaMont hears the shot, an approaching group of rabble will choose an alternate route. Make sure the perimeter watchers know to look back frequently to the highpoint for (primitive) signals.

I'd take the rest of the "skilled" people and assemble them into teams ready to move out and engage on reports by the perimeter watchers or the high-point .mil guys. They could sleep or do light work while on standby, but would be locked and loaded while their team was "up."

I don't think it would be responsible to widen the AO unless you had to send out a foraging team.



excellent post, some good info there. I like how you made protecting the people a priority over protecting property. I might add that maybe you could use the vehicles, assuming suffcient fuel was abalible, to put a few people in to make a round of the neighborhood ever couple ours or so, to sort of provide a show of force, and help deter would be looters. Along with putting up the obligitory "looters will be shot" signs.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:55:14 PM EDT
another bump
Top Top