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Posted: 6/5/2009 5:52:06 AM EST
Or women who were teenagers :)

My daughter and I had a long talk last night that didn't fare well. She told me that she was getting more serious with her boyfriend and they have been talking about having sex. I told her that I was glad she talked to me about it. She's on the pill and is very responsible. While I would like her to wait that regardless of her choices I will always love her.

I told her that she wasn't going to like what I had to say but I asked her to listen to me. As her mother I told her I felt I have a moral obligation to tell her what I believe is best for her. I reminded her that I do not have an emotional attachment like she does but I felt it was best for her to wind down her relationship with this boy. She is going off to college this fall and I would like her to go to college unencumbered by a boyfriend back home. Her boyfriend is a year younger than her and will be a senior next year. He is no where near as good of a student as she is and does not have the drive to go to school like she does. She wants to be a Psychiatrist which will take a lot of schooling and of course time, money and dedication. I also told her that there are social stigmias for girls at college who have high school boyfriends and that she would be outcasting herself from a lot of social opprotunities.

Of course none of this bodes well with her at all. She ended up screaming at me that I hate her boyfriend (I don't but I think he's an immature teenage boy that's trying to get into my daughter's pants) and that I just don't understand. She also screamed that she and Grant {bf} are taking about getting married.

I have to admit I have a lot of trepedation because of my own life history. I got married at 19 to a lazy, immature jerk (far worse than Grant) and supported him for 11 years until he left me my autistic son and daughter for another woman. I know I can't place my mistakes on her shoulders but I can't help but not wanting her to make the same mistakes I did. The obstacles that she will place her in her way by her actions could cost her her career and future and I've worked hard to ensure she had much more opprotunities than I did.

Anyway, I'd like some advice. One of things she's asking for is more independence. Grant's Grandmother {He is being raised by his Grandmother) has a rule that she is not allowed over when she isn't home. The woman's single and works a lot to support Grant and his twin sister so Whitney is not allowed over to see Grant much. While I agree with her rule whole heartedly the woman does not allow Grant to come over hear much. Whitney is always asking me if she can borrow the car to go hang out with Grant and I say no because of Grandma's rule. She wants to just sit at the steps at the high school but I do not think a graduated senior should hang out at the high school. I'm not even sure what the school policy is.

Also, for her to drive back and forth to see her boyfriend (who doesn't drive) takes her borrowing my car and using my gas. She starts work on the 22nd and will have more money but the majority of her money needs to be saved for college. She complains that I'm treating her like a baby.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 6:12:37 AM EST
That's a tough one. I know that you do not want to see her make the same mistakes that you did, but she will make some mistakes. That's part of growing up. If you hold on too tightly, then she will rebel even more. She's allready graduated, so you have to start letting go a bit. Be there for her when she does make mistakes, and always offer your advice if she asks. Before I had my own car, the rule on borrowing Dad's was that I had to bring it back with a full tank, no matter how low it was when I got it. I don't know about hanging out at the High School, but as long as she is somewhere public with him and not breaking his Grandma's rule, I'd let her go. She'll figure out soon enough that there are better fish in the sea. Encourage her to at least use a condom even though she is on the pill if she does choose to have sex. There are too many diseases out there, and anything she does to lessen her chance of pregnancy is a good idea.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 6:53:19 AM EST
I agree with your reasons behind what you've already told your daughter, but the fact is the more you try to put her off the idea of having sex with her bf, the more likely it is that she will do it to spite you and do it irresponsibly. If you attempt to stop them from seeing each other, she may even try to run away with him and then you've lost all control. You've discussed safe sex I assume and suggested using condoms in addition to the pill, but you could maybe try leaving some STD literature for her to peruse in her own time. Trust me, she'll look at it. Don't try to talk to her about the literature or you'll seem like you're pushing too much; just put it in an envelope with a warm and understanding note that stresses the fact that you are open to discussion should she feel the need. If you're a religious type (or if she is), try a book titled "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Joshua Harris. It's by a young man who decided to wait for marriage before becoming physically involved and highlights the mentality behind premature sex. In fact, it's relevant regardless of religion, however, the author is Christian and religion is one focus of the book. Whatever you decide to do, check it out yourself––it may help you to better understand where your daughter is coming from.

About the home-visits...that's a tough one. If you have accepted that your daughter will probably be having sex with her bf, you've considered where they might be having it and been horrified at the idea of it happenign in your home. You can do one of three things: 1. Not in my house––go use bf's grandma's. 2. Not in my house OR bf's grandma's––use the car, park, alley, theatre, whatever. 3. Use the house––your own bed––(probably safest) and only when mom isn't home. Of course, there's always the old standby: Get out and have sex in your own apartment––though I wouldn't recommend this last one.

Best of luck. Keep us posted.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 8:16:36 AM EST
So you've got yourself a cougar? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I wonder why Grandmother doesn't want him to come to your house a lot?? Setting that aside, you'll have to pick your battles and decide what is important overall. The literature is a good idea and I picked up a brochure from my GYN after we had "the talk". Trust me, she'll read it.

Can you sit down with your daughter and develop a budget that includes college money and car money.......? i.e. you'll provide the car, insurance and maintenance - but she has to buy all the gas, keep it washed and vacuumed??? Sit down with her and help register/choose classes - it's all online these days and concentrate more on the future college aspect......

IMO, once your daughter goes off to school, this relationship will die a natural death. There is a world of difference between the responsibilities and social activities between a senior in high school and freshman in college, not to mention the distance.

Link Posted: 6/5/2009 9:09:00 AM EST
I agree that once your daughter starts college the relationship will probably come to an end. She will be starting a new chapter in her life and the bf is left behind in HS. I also think that once she begins work her time will be occupied with it and that means less time with the bf. Maybe try to get her to busy herself with activities that do not include him and with time she will probably become less interested in the relationship. It's probably just "summer love" I wouldn't worry too much about it. I imagine within a year she will look back on this conversation that the two of you had and understand your points and views.

A year in college does wonders for turning a young innocent naive teenage girl into a rational thought processing mature woman. lol
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 9:55:29 AM EST
you are getting good advice here

give your daughter a chance to cool out and see if the topic can come back up––my temper is pretty quick and i say all sorts of things i dont mean when im pissed off

i also want to remind you, you cannot go back and fix your own mistakes through your daughter––im sure she already believes she is smarter, more worldly, mature, and overall fabulous than you and you insisting she isnt, wont help––she has to learn it on her own

decide on your limits and expectations and stick to them––if you remain calm, but firm, her decisions will be her own
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 10:11:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2009 10:13:01 AM EST by daydreamer]
Just a couple of disjointed thoughts. Recent research shows that kissing can give the female small doses of testosterone over a long period that makes her more ready to mate, and MATING is exactly what she is considering. Is this guy her "true love"? Does she think sex will answer that question?

But... the thing she should really consider is, "Is this a person who is ready to have children?" Sure, sex can be 'recreational', but there are other things to consider. Should you ever be that intimate with a person who would be an unsuitable father to your children? She should know that sex will make her more vulnerable to him that it will make him to her. Whether we like to admit is or not, this is true for most men and women.

Also, for a girl/young woman her age, ask her to consider a few years down the line whether she will be happy that she did such a final thing just to taunt her mother.

Consider some written materials and testimony from other women (some in their 20s) on this subject. There's probably a lot on-line.

(eta: you can ask for an armistice. Like, "Give me a month, just a month to share some things with you before you make this decision.")
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 3:28:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2009 3:31:17 PM EST by QueenDeNile]
Thank you for the excellent comforting advice! I'm really looking forward posting on here that life with Whitney and I is great, we get along wonderfully! No one start holding their breath however!

Grandma is nuts with the kid. The kid is semi lazy and I can understand her point of view some of the time but she has two different sets of standards for the boy as she does for the twin sister. Granted the twin sister graduated a year early and was valedictorian of her class. Most of us would look lazy next to her. Part of the problem is Grandma doesn’t want Grant to turn out like his father (her son). His father is a drug abuser/loser.
He does have his immature faults and I don’t think he treats Whitney as well as he should. She does the majority of the work for the relationship, a patterned I don’t care for in the least. I am old fashion, I’m a little more liberal than my Grandparents were on me (I wasn’t allowed to lift a finger towards my high school relationships, no calling, no writing except to return a special letter, I did not set up dates, I was picked up at my house (I insist on this for date/dates but not for just hanging out, which is mostly what they do). I think they have a wacked relationship primarily because they share with each way more via cell phone texting. I do see them both as immature brats half the time. I’ve seen Grant sit next to Whitney at the homecoming dance sending her text messages! Just today we invited Grant to go to the graduation ceremony of Whitney’s old high school (we moved to this new town two years ago) and Grandma refused, even though I was going to drive them and Whitney’s Dad would be there to chaperone. Her reason was he had no business attending the other school graduation. There could be more to her reason, we only get Grant’s side of things. It does sound like something she would do however.

Whitney shares tizzy fits Grant has. Grant had a fit when she went to Italy because she couldn’t use her cell phone and pouted the first week she got back. It up set her but she was exhausted from her trip and behind on homework so that took the majority of her time.
I hope your right about things calming down once she leaves home. She is going to go away for college next year, live in the dorms, play basket ball and live the college life. She’s stubborn enough to prove she can make this work just to spite me but hopefully she won’t. She is mature enough and honest enough to break things off with Grant before dating the next fellow.
Okay, now I’m rambling. Thank you for listening!!


*ETA* I will make a budget for her in regards to what she can spend and what she needs to save for college. Its going to be difficult as she practically has a full ride scholarship (tuition, room & board & books) for the first year but she has to perform to maintain it (she has a basket ball and academic scholarship) and the generosity of the money could be less next year with budget cuts etc so she has to learn to save.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 4:18:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:

*ETA* I will make a budget for her in regards to what she can spend and what she needs to save for college. Its going to be difficult as she practically has a full ride scholarship (tuition, room & board & books) for the first year but she has to perform to maintain it (she has a basket ball and academic scholarship) and the generosity of the money could be less next year with budget cuts etc so she has to learn to save.


Even better! She needs to concentrate now to staying in shape and working towards this upcoming season. Emphasize that the caliber of player at the college level is that much better than high school. It will all work out.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 4:40:41 PM EST
Okay so I read a couple of responses earlier in the week and the last couple but if I am repeating anything-sorry.

Quit fighting her. It sounds like you have some good ground to stand-follow his grandmother's rules, respect the rules at the high school and whatever else is that is relevent.

Your daughter sounds like a normal strong willed young lady. The attraction very well may be in the amount of dispproval you give to the relationship or just crazy hormones.

Heck, if you want to really mess with her you should invite the boy over all the time when you are there.


I don't know. But since my kids are hitting puberty and their teens as we speak I keep telling myself that I will push absitnence and chant to myself that there are worse things than them having sex.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 8:01:33 PM EST
I know you asked for motherly advice, but I thought I'd throw in my .02 cents

Two Disclaimers, Married but not a parent, Second; I'm a male, and I had no sisters.

Just general advice, At some point you have to accept that you have given your daughter the tools to survive in the world and you have to let her make her own mistakes and learn from them, and support her as she grows and learns.

I lived at my folks house in the summer during college, and for a bit before I entered the army, One of my dads big rules was that I showed him my bank book every week, and showed him my budget for each week. His rule was, I had to put away at least 50% of my paycheck, I was free to have spending cash, but if I was just blowing my money they would charge me rent, or kick me out on my ass.

I know you might not like your daughters BF, but unless he is a real piece of trash I would just let things play out, trying to get her to dump him will just drive a wedge between you two, and more than likely she will dump him after a semester or two of college all on her own, and she may not tell you but she'll know in her head you were right. Sometimes it does work out though, my brother started dating his soon to be wife in HS, (junior year) and they dated all through college even thought they went to different schools, and are a year apart grade wise.

Like other's have said, pick your battles, you can't win them all, to focus on the things that are important and let the chips fall where they may.

Good Luck to you and your daughter
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 6:28:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
She complains that I'm treating her like a baby.


Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
*ETA* I will make a budget for her in regards to what she can spend and what she needs to save for college. Its going to be difficult as she practically has a full ride scholarship (tuition, room & board & books) for the first year but she has to perform to maintain it (she has a basket ball and academic scholarship) and the generosity of the money could be less next year with budget cuts etc so she has to learn to save.


See why she says you are treating her like a baby? She's 18, she needs to learn to do that on her own. Certainly, by all means assist her with budgeting and remind her that she needs to save money for college...but you need to let her make mistakes and learn how to budget money...you can't do everything for her anymore, time to let go a little.


Link Posted: 6/6/2009 12:07:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pita_146:

Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
She complains that I'm treating her like a baby.


Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
*ETA*I will make a budget for her in regards to what she can spend and whatshe needs to save for college. Its going to be difficult as shepractically has a full ride scholarship (tuition, room & board& books) for the first year but she has to perform to maintain it(she has a basket ball and academic scholarship) and the generosity ofthe money could be less next year with budget cuts etc so she has tolearn to save.


See why she says you are treating her like a baby? She's 18, she needs to learn to do that on her own. Certainly, by all means assist her with budgeting and remind her that she needs to save money for college...but you need to let her make mistakes and learn how to budget money...you can't do everything for her anymore, time to let go a little.





Good Point. How does one get by the fact that it won't get done if mother doesn't do it? Her priorities are "Grant, Her cell phone, Grant, soda pop, Grant, her friends, her friends with Grant" etc etc.

I did force her to read Dave Ramsey's book and write a book report before I would give her her laptop (graduation president). Maybe (since it isn't done yet) I'll make it a demand that she puts together her budget first as well.


Link Posted: 6/6/2009 12:57:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
Originally Posted By Pita_146:

Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
She complains that I'm treating her like a baby.


Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
*ETA*I will make a budget for her in regards to what she can spend and whatshe needs to save for college. Its going to be difficult as shepractically has a full ride scholarship (tuition, room & board& books) for the first year but she has to perform to maintain it(she has a basket ball and academic scholarship) and the generosity ofthe money could be less next year with budget cuts etc so she has tolearn to save.


See why she says you are treating her like a baby? She's 18, she needs to learn to do that on her own. Certainly, by all means assist her with budgeting and remind her that she needs to save money for college...but you need to let her make mistakes and learn how to budget money...you can't do everything for her anymore, time to let go a little.





Good Point. How does one get by the fact that it won't get done if mother doesn't do it? Her priorities are "Grant, Her cell phone, Grant, soda pop, Grant, her friends, her friends with Grant" etc etc.

I did force her to read Dave Ramsey's book and write a book report before I would give her her laptop (graduation president). Maybe (since it isn't done yet) I'll make it a demand that she puts together her budget first as well.




Just a though, but if you don't do it, and let her fall (a little) on her face she will learn what i't takes to survive in the world. i.e lay out the ground rules first (sounds like you've done this some already) and if she fails to budget properly and finds herself short of cash for dates with the BF, don't give her 20 bucks just tell her tough, and that next time she'll budget better. Same goes for the cell phone bill (I had to pay for my own phone and bill if I wanted one) when she runs out of minutes or gets her plan canceled because of poor planning she'll learn a lesson.

Just some thoughts, its better to let kids fall on there face a bit while there young and the falls aren't a big deal in the grand scheme, that way they learn and can fix there mistakes without causing to much harm.

Again good luck
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 1:10:08 PM EST
POW, just a little question. Mind you kids do not want you to know that they have failed, even just a little bit. By the time you find out, it's not just a little bit. I should know, oldest did this when she was about 24 and had been out of the house for a few years on her own. But to her credit she did clear up her own mess. Her mom and I had advised her in July to get in touch with the credit consulars. I am talking about the free ones that credit card companies sponsor not one of those that you pay for (rip off artiest). She was sure showing signs a rebellion to both of use. Almost got arrested for some bad checks she had written. But she made good on them and they dropped charges. She played around till about Oct before she went to the CCs, about the same time that the long arm of the law was about to throw her in the slammer. Funny the threat of jail time sure does give some the incentive to fly straight.

Now about 6 yrs later (30 yrs old now) she is holding a 3.75 or there about grade average at Mizzou Colleage working to a degree.

Max
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 2:02:38 PM EST
Max,

I should qualify my statement about kids failing. Your right that kids don't want to admit they failed, or know that they failed (they know it all right) But while they may never say they screwed up (at least to there folks) They will (at least I hope) recognise in their own mind that they screwed up and that they need to do "X" to fix it, and do something different the next time. They may never say it, but they will realize that the advice given by there folks was in fact correct, and hopefully you will see the fruits of your advice in their actions as they correct mistakes over time.
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 7:02:15 PM EST
Patty,

All I can say is that each child is different. What works for one child will not work for another. With our second Daughter. She was getting involved with a man of 33 yrs old and she was just 2 months shy of 20 yrs old herself. Wife and I spent many hours weighing between telling her he was no good (Yes this guy has some issues with the law that was confirmed via Case Net or let is run its course and hope she would wizen up. The old saying about condeming someone only pushes our kids towards that which you are trying to keep them from (See Rebellion). We didn't want to push her towards the guy. So we stood back and hoped that she would wake up to this guy on her own. Well we were letting things go and hope she wizened up. This was not working so wife and I sat her down and told her we knew this guy has issues. Well he is a smart one. Told her about his bump in with the law and twisted it. So, she was ready for her mother and I when we confronted her with the news. We had a blow out and she packed after the sit down. After living with him for 2 years, they married last spring. Her first and his 3rd marriage. Well he is now spending 15 days in jail with work release during the day. I suppose she is learning what kind of bed she has made for herself. But out of rebellion or out of embarrassment. She has recently cut communication with her mother and me. Suppose we will hope that her journey to the bottom of the barrel and back up will be brief as possible, but it becomes a learning experience.

Max
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 5:38:24 AM EST
Queen- how are you and your daughter doing?
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 9:15:10 AM EST
I totally missed this, well if I showed up more I wouldn't have.

Patty you know I am just a couple years ahead of you with my girls. I've been there done that and more. The first thing I can tell you is to not pressure her about this boy. She will make the right choice when she is ready, not until then and definitely not because you've suggested it. I learned the hard way and my oldest almost married a boy that was no good for her because I didn't like him and I seen through him and I COULDN'T BE RIGHT!! (in her mind, and yes she told me this after the fact)

I've not made the same mistake twice, I won't tell them what I think of their b/f's.

Sex, as hard as it is to not want your daughter to make the same mistakes you did, she is going to and she has to fall before she can pick herself up and see the right path. It's very tough seeing our children making mistakes, but we have to let them. we taught them the right things, gave them the right tools to succeed, now we need to let go and let them decide how to use them.

An update to my girls, the oldest just graduated college this year, has been on her own for over a year now (meaning no boy living with her and sharing expenses) and she is engaged to a wonderful man who is on his way to the sandbox now. She made her mistakes and picked herself up and dusted herself off and made things right.
The youngest took a year off and just started college classes, she is still with a boy that I like but know is not right for her, I can't change it, but I can be here when she needs me.

If you need me, hit me on myspace.. just never here much.

Patti
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 1:29:36 PM EST
kids will do what they want... Sometimes they'll listen to their parents' advice, but most of the time they have to learn for themselves. My parents didn't even try to negotiate... I wasn't allowed to date unless it was a double date or the date was accompanied by an adult. Needless to say, I never dated... that my parents knew of.

At 16, my boyfriend at the time and I decided to take it to the next level. I went to a clinic, got myself on birth control, and dated the guy for a year and a half without them knowing.

My point is... kids look at parental advice/commands as suggestions. All you can do is provide the best guidance you can... but in the end, it's really up to your kiddo.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:49:07 AM EST
Thank you everyone for the advice. I agree backing off is the best strategy. I certainly do not want to push her into making choices just inspite of me.

I'm really sick so I can't write too much but just a quick update. Grant's Grandmother told Whitney that if she caught them having sex together she would charge Whitney with stautory rape. Since Whit is 18 and Grant is 17. I don't know the law too well but it sunk home with Whitney hard. Grant isn't working hard in school and his Grandma can careless if he has a girlfriend or not. I had a long talk about this with Whitney and told her that Grant needs to step up to the plate if he wants a relationship with her that she deserves it. His Grandma has a right to demand him to do better in school (the kid is bright but lazy) and Whitney agrees (she's always taken her grades very seriously).

So we'll see how it goes. I've given her a little more leadway. I have a new car so she has access to my old car. She has to pay for her own gas and I told her that if she gets a ticket I take the car away no questions asked. I paid for her insurance for the first six months but she has to pay for her own insurance afterwards. She's himmed and hawed about this as she doesn't have any money and believes Mother should still be paying for things but I'm sticking to my guns.

She got a laptop for Graduation from her Dad and I but she has to write a boook report on Dave Ramsey's book before she gets her laptop. That has caused a great deal of contention. I'm hoping she doesn't do it. I've always wanted a laptop!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 4:28:44 PM EST
God, I'm lucky I have a boy.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 5:27:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By 101st_shooter:
God, I'm lucky I have a boy.




Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:09:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By 101st_shooter:
God, I'm lucky I have a boy.


You have no idea! Boys are so much easier! The Good Lord knew what he was doing giving me a son in my 30's. And to think I used to call Whitney my little sigh of relief!

Patty
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:18:37 PM EST
As a teenage male (18.5) myself let me get in on this.

Here's how it pans out. There is no "we" when it comes to discussions.

HE's been talking about them having sex, and has most likely convinced her it's a good idea.

SHE's been considering marriage, and unless he is stupid as a box of rocks, he either A) doesn't know that "they" intend to get married, or more likely B) is agreeing so that she'll shut up and take her clothes off.

Not to say kids this age can't have serious relationships, but I know what I would do. Most teenage males think alike, and would do the same thing.

That said, as long as their safe, I think your fooling yourself by telling her to not have sex. If HE, SHE, or THEY want to, they will, it's not difficult to find a mutual friend's house who will be more than willing to allow the use of their bed.

I know all of this from experience, and I have on a number of occasions made a 'death list' I'm quite sure.

You can't stop nature. She's going to college, and you're really fooling yourself if you think things aren't going to happen their.

Sorry, but that's the truth.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 5:50:37 AM EST
Thank you for your frankness Assualt Rifle City. I suspected very similarly. The boy is a good kid but he is still a 17 year old boy. I wasn't born yesterday. The unfortunate thing is that nothing I say or do will be relevent. If I had her read this she would say Grant isn't that way. I'm wrong and there would simply be more contention between us. Like the others say I simply must wait until she figures it out on her own. She's smart and this is her first boyfriend. Patty
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 7:25:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By QueenDeNile:
Thank you for your frankness Assualt Rifle City. I suspected very similarly. The boy is a good kid but he is still a 17 year old boy. I wasn't born yesterday. The unfortunate thing is that nothing I say or do will be relevent. If I had her read this she would say Grant isn't that way. I'm wrong and there would simply be more contention between us. Like the others say I simply must wait until she figures it out on her own. She's smart and this is her first boyfriend. Patty


That says everything.

I wouldn't fret too much. We all have to grow up eventually, and appears that you've got the right outlook, so good luck, I think it'll all turn out fine.
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