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Posted: 8/24/2004 9:37:21 AM EST
Since so many of you don't seem to think a LEO killed in the line of duty should have a para military funeral, where do you draw the line with military veterans?
My father died of natural causes at age 76; he was a WW2 veteran, serving in combat on New Guinea, Leyte and Okinawa, where he was wounded and evacuated.
My father had a full military funeral when he died.
Should he not have had military honors? After all, he wasn't killed in the LOD.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 9:45:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 9:49:17 AM EST
I do believe that anyone who has served that requests a military funeral gets one. Mostly, it consists of two soldiers; (Officer or NCO) with a Joe. All they do is play taps (recorded), fold the flag, and present it to the next of kin. I have done a few myself, and they were mostly for old vets who died of old age.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 9:49:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Define 'full military burial service'!

If you mean a flag-draped coffin with the American Legion or VFW in attendance, then your father received the same service that my father and grandfather, both war veterans, received.

No 'missing man' formation overflight, no 21 gun salute, nothing like that!

Eric The(KingOfAR15)Hun


Yes, the above and the inevitable traffic tie up getting to the funeral home.
My question is, why should they have gotten this? After all, they died as civilians and not in action.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 9:55:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By ryann:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Define 'full military burial service'!

If you mean a flag-draped coffin with the American Legion or VFW in attendance, then your father received the same service that my father and grandfather, both war veterans, received.

No 'missing man' formation overflight, no 21 gun salute, nothing like that!

Eric The(KingOfAR15)Hun


Yes, the above and the inevitable traffic tie up getting to the funeral home.
My question is, why should they have gotten this? After all, they died as civilians and not in action.



THey served and gave years of their life in service of our country.

Active duty funerals alre always more ceremonial. and for food reason.

Should police get recongnition? sure. But not the same as military. Police ARE CIVILIANS. NOT MILITARY. I think we need ot remind them of this. I am in no way looking down in LEO's. It's a simple fact.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 9:56:39 AM EST
As far as I know as long as you served in the military, you can receive a "military" funeral. How much the military is involved in the funeral is up to the surviving spouse, family members etc.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 10:10:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By ryann:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Define 'full military burial service'!

If you mean a flag-draped coffin with the American Legion or VFW in attendance, then your father received the same service that my father and grandfather, both war veterans, received.

No 'missing man' formation overflight, no 21 gun salute, nothing like that!

Eric The(KingOfAR15)Hun


Yes, the above and the inevitable traffic tie up getting to the funeral home.
My question is, why should they have gotten this? After all, they died as civilians and not in action.


THey served and gave years of their life in service of our country.

Active duty funerals alre always more ceremonial. and for food reason.

Should police get recongnition? sure. But not the same as military. Police ARE CIVILIANS. NOT MILITARY. I think we need ot remind them of this. I am in no way looking down in LEO's. It's a simple fact.



Actually I agree that police are civilians in the sense that they're not military. However, police also have some burdens and responsibilitys not foisted on the general citizenry.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 3:57:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 4:02:13 AM EST by Manic_Moran]
I've clocked up over 150 military funerals so far, I should be fairly well able to answer this one..

Officially, anyone who served in the military and was not dishonourably discharged is entitled to have a representative of their service present for the honours. At a minimum, this is supposed to be two men and a tape deck/CD player. (Though now they've come up with a CD-player-in-a-bugle, so it looks the part). Officers are entitled to have an officer present the flag. The embarassing bit is if the CD batteries die half-way through. The families tend to be understanding of that, however.

In practise, however, sometimes we don't have the manpower to do all the funerals of one day, or sometimes traffic holds us up. I've done one or two one-man details in the past. Sometimes the VFW or AL show up and do a firing party, sometimes not.

As much as possible, we try to get as large an attendance as we can. If there is only one funeral that day, we might get a full team together.

The whole shebang is a firing party, bugler, flag detail and sometimes a piper. Full honours are rendered on request to anyone who has achieved sufficient rank (enlisted or commissioned), who earned medals of a certain level, or usually who was killed in action, the latter are usually Dress Blues occasions, if we can gather enough people who have Blues.

We will do whatever the survivng family wants, as long as it's not disrespectful. We did one flag-fold in the widow's living room, taking care not to trip over kids or furniture!

Incidently, the words 'the president' are no longer part of the flag presentation speech. It is now 'On behalf of a grateful nation and the United States Army'

In cases where the individual served as both law enforcement and military, we usually come to a gentleman's agreement as to who gets to do what in the service. (eg, we play taps, fire shots, they present flag) They are frequently quite fun events.

NTM
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 4:08:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 4:09:14 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 4:21:11 AM EST
Does a military funeral for an aged vet include a uniform for burial?

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:05:21 AM EST
My Marine unit does a lot of funeral details. All honorably discharged Marines, whether they served for 3 months or 30 years, receive full military honors when they are laid to their final rest. This includes presenter, flag folders, firing detail, AND a bugler (usually we have to borrow him from the VFW, though). Navy Corpsmen and Chaplains who have served with the Marines also receive these honors. Once a Marine always a Marine, and having participated in several of these ceremonies, I can honestly say it is an honor each and every time to do so for those who have served before us and made the USMC what it is today.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:14:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By ryann:
Since so many of you don't seem to think a LEO killed in the line of duty should have a para military funeral, where do you draw the line with military veterans?
My father died of natural causes at age 76; he was a WW2 veteran, serving in combat on New Guinea, Leyte and Okinawa, where he was wounded and evacuated.
My father had a full military funeral when he died.
Should he not have had military honors? After all, he wasn't killed in the LOD.



What do you care if people on here don't think a LEO deserves a para military funeral? Why are you bent up out of shape over this? Aren't you LEOs tested or something to see if you can handle stress well? You don't seem to be able to handle a few posters on here with different opinions. I've seen several of your posts that deride or criticze the original thread about LEO funerals.

Just curious.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:23:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 8:25:08 AM EST by Zardoz]

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:
I do believe that anyone who has served that requests a military funeral gets one. Mostly, it consists of two soldiers; (Officer or NCO) with a Joe. All they do is play taps (recorded), fold the flag, and present it to the next of kin. I have done a few myself, and they were mostly for old vets who died of old age.

When I was in the 1CD, the duty battalion provided the funeral details. We did a funeral for a guy that had survived the "death march" on the bataan peninsula, and after recovering from that, had gone on to serve in Korea, and Vietnam. We provided a full flag detail w/our Battery XO as OIC, a rifle detail (I was NCOIC), and a bugler to play taps. That was the proudest day I ever wore my Class A's.


Does a military funeral for an aged vet include a uniform for burial?
No.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:36:22 AM EST
You don't draw the line on veterans. As already stated, all honorably discharged veterans are entitled to military honors.

As far as LEO goes, regardless of what you may think of any individual officer, LEO is a noble profession designed to serve his fellow man. (No gender bias intended) I doubt you'll find that type of funeral given to a former LEO unless he retired from a particular department and that department is set up to render such honors.

The biggest difference is the vet. served the entire country and the LEO served his community.

Nice to see you Hun, care to spar?

Semper Fi!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:38:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Define 'full military burial service'!

If you mean a flag-draped coffin with the American Legion or VFW in attendance, then your father received the same service that my father and grandfather, both war veterans, received.

No 'missing man' formation overflight, no 21 gun salute, nothing like that!

Eric The(KingOfAR15)Hun



BTW, a 21 gun salute is reserved only for former or current POTUS'.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:48:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:49:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By ryann:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Define 'full military burial service'!

If you mean a flag-draped coffin with the American Legion or VFW in attendance, then your father received the same service that my father and grandfather, both war veterans, received.

No 'missing man' formation overflight, no 21 gun salute, nothing like that!

Eric The(KingOfAR15)Hun


Yes, the above and the inevitable traffic tie up getting to the funeral home.
My question is, why should they have gotten this? After all, they died as civilians and not in action.



Because they are Vetrans and we honor our Vetrans in this Country. We should probably do more than we do. By the way it is not always recorded taps that is played. That was started because so many Vetrans are dying and we did not have enough buglars to fill the demand.

God Bless them each and every one!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:55:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
I see no reason for a Policeman to not recieve whatever honors are traditional his departmetn, if those traditions are similar to military services then so what? I do not care much for police in general, but the truth is that they dedicate thier lives to serving others, they make sacrifices that any soldier could understand. Being a LEO is a thankless job that requires a great amount of dedication and loyalty to your community, and thus should be given a proper ceremony when they leave this world, if that is what they wish.



Exactly. Most public service departments, LEO, EMS, Fire, pattern their ceremonies after military practices. The difference during the ceremony is the uniform that is worn.

Semper Fi!
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