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Posted: 7/21/2010 6:30:09 PM EDT
I fired up the Dillon 550 and got busy last week.  



I broke out a batch of pulled down 62 grain green tips and adjusted the powder.   I was impressed with the speed of this machine, and after telling myself several times to "check the OAL" if blindly chugged through 350 or so rounds.  



All of them are about 3 thousandths too long.  



so I get to run all of them back through a seating die in my single stage press.  Not a monumental task, but one that negates all of the benefits of a progressive.  



I failed.  
Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:32:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
I failed.  




But you caught it, so did you win

Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:34:35 PM EDT
I think I'd just go buy a used NEF single shot.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:35:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2010 6:36:57 PM EDT by bcw107]
DT stupid phone

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Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:36:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2010 6:37:20 PM EDT by bcw107]
Damn iphone Triple tap

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Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:39:11 PM EDT
Isn't that what the forward assist is for?
Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:42:53 PM EDT
Always have a spare tool head.  That way you can speed through the process with the auto kick-out.  Saves a bit.
Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:43:05 PM EDT



Originally Posted By brass:


Isn't that what the forward assist is for?


If only they made one for magazines.

 
Link Posted: 7/21/2010 6:45:38 PM EDT
That'll learn ya! Sorry for the misfortune, bud. I still haven't found any lead for ya.   I'll stop by a different place tomorrow.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:07:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:24:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:28:29 AM EDT
Try them and see if they still preform to expectations.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:31:18 AM EDT


I make sweet love to my XL650 but I stop to measure... measure again... go piss... then measure and weigh again.







Monroe, I am disappoint.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:34:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 8:35:44 AM EDT by mark75101]
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:
I don't load with a "Progressive" because of this very specific reason...  Too many things can go wrong if just ONE piece of your machine walks loose.

By doing things with a single stage you're ALWAYS HANDLING the brass throughout the load process.  Each time you pick up a piece of brass you can INSPECT IT visually to find signs of pressure, stress, dents/dings, and you can measure any dimensions you want...

I find that I get VERY consistent results from a single-stage, and I don't have to worry about this sort of thing.

Nothing quite as fun as running through 1200 rounds of 9mm only to realize that somewhere along the line your case mouth opening die slipped out of adjustment, and now about 400 of your 'Finished' rounds have part of the jacket shaved off, and 700 of them bulged and now they won't fit into a Cartridge Case Gauge so they may not even chamber safely in your gun to begin with.

Major waste of components, IMHO.  



Bullshit.

The OP's problem was he didn't check his seating die length when he changed bullets. Single stage or progressive you have to change OL when you change bullets. You may not have loaded 350 rounds on your single stage before you realized the OL was 3 thousandths off but you could have easily made the same mistake.

You can inspect each round on a progressive if you want. You just need to take the time to do so.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:37:31 AM EDT
If it fits in the magazine, it shoots.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:55:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:
I don't load with a "Progressive" because of this very specific reason...  Too many things can go wrong if just ONE piece of your machine walks loose.

By doing things with a single stage you're ALWAYS HANDLING the brass throughout the load process.  Each time you pick up a piece of brass you can INSPECT IT visually to find signs of pressure, stress, dents/dings, and you can measure any dimensions you want...

I find that I get VERY consistent results from a single-stage, and I don't have to worry about this sort of thing.

Nothing quite as fun as running through 1200 rounds of 9mm only to realize that somewhere along the line your case mouth opening die slipped out of adjustment, and now about 400 of your 'Finished' rounds have part of the jacket shaved off, and 700 of them bulged and now they won't fit into a Cartridge Case Gauge so they may not even chamber safely in your gun to begin with.

Major waste of components, IMHO.  


That is an absurd complaint.  There are many errors that can be introduced from all the HANDLING when using a single-stage press.

Sizing/depriming Stage––I don't see much reason for difference single vs. progressive.  Get it set right and there isn't much reason for the setting to go bad.

Powder Stage––From my experience with both a progressive can have more variation in the powder load.  Realistically I acheive +/- 0.1 grain.  With a trickler when using a single stage you can get even closer depending on how  much care you wish to take.  Yes, there can be problems with powder dispensing in a progressive, but you should visually check each time.  You have as much chance for error in single-stage powder loading.

Seating Stage––I don't see much reason for difference single vs. progressive.  Again, get is set up correctly and it shouldn't change.

Crimping Stage––I don't see much reason for difference single vs. progressive.

At some random point in a run on a progressive I recheck what each stage is doing.  It's important to keep in mind when setting the powder stage that multiple actuations somewhat compress what is in the dispenser so you should always dispense and discard back into the hopper into an empty case whatever powder is there when you've been working the the other stage settings.

A progressive stage is a fairly simple automated machine.  The reason automation is good is because it is repeatable.  When something is repeatable you can address accuracy issues.



Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:04:16 AM EDT
There's a reason why, when running a progressive (and a 550 isn't even a full progressive) that you learn to become a skilled operator of the machine before trying to crank out thousands of rounds.  It's really not that hard unless you can't read or understand directions, have no patience or can't work undisturbed.  If that's the case, stick with a single stage or even better, store bought ammo.



Ranger's lesson was an easy one.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:06:28 AM EDT




Originally Posted By Saber7:

If it fits in the magazine, it shoots.




Pro Tip: You should stick to buying loaded rounds and avoid getting into handloading.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:08:08 AM EDT
You're worried about .003" OAL on greentips?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:09:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:17:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 9:21:25 AM EDT by fundummy]
chuck a mag full - run em'  through...

It's like the B-52 mechanics say... " it'll probably be all right "...


Seriously though  - .003 is ok so long as they fit n' feed.
Chamber and extract a few... just to make sure you aren't up against the rifling.
Maybe carbon smoke a round and check the same way....

Otherwise I'd say you're GTG.

eta: We all do this once in a while... my last batch was 3K - 45ACP lead... it wouldn't cycle reliably in a tight chamber Colt Commander.  Lead would load up at the sharp end of the chamber mouth.
So I reseated them down another .005.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:18:33 AM EDT
Ive done the same thing...



-V
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:22:59 AM EDT
.003 is a big deal?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:27:06 AM EDT
I'd hit 'em with some machinists' blue first asn see what they look like after chambering.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:29:25 AM EDT
I still say get a used NEF single shot.  Have some fun with your already loaded ammo and then resell the NEF.  I've seen them in the $150 range.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 11:11:32 AM EDT
Just tap each round on the tip of the bullet with a hammer.  I'm sure it'll all work out!
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 12:10:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:
I don't load with a "Progressive" because of this very specific reason...  Too many things can go wrong if just ONE piece of your machine walks loose.

By doing things with a single stage you're ALWAYS HANDLING the brass throughout the load process.  Each time you pick up a piece of brass you can INSPECT IT visually to find signs of pressure, stress, dents/dings, and you can measure any dimensions you want...

I find that I get VERY consistent results from a single-stage, and I don't have to worry about this sort of thing.

Nothing quite as fun as running through 1200 rounds of 9mm only to realize that somewhere along the line your case mouth opening die slipped out of adjustment, and now about 400 of your 'Finished' rounds have part of the jacket shaved off, and 700 of them bulged and now they won't fit into a Cartridge Case Gauge so they may not even chamber safely in your gun to begin with.

Major waste of components, IMHO.  


If a part of your progressive machine "walks" loose, then you didn't set it up correctly (properly tighten the lock nuts, secure the clips and pins, and etc), or you have a worn or defective part. Loading with a progressive reloader is similar to painting a car. Most of the work is in prep (setup). A quality progressive press, properly set up, is highly unlikely to produce a bad round. Bad rounds under the aforementioned conditions, are virtually always caused by bad/incorrect components (ie mix of magnum and special cases), or operator error (failure to; periodically clean out accumulated lead bullet lube in the seating die, fill powder or primers, or short-stroking the op handle, etc).

I have a bit of experience with progressive reloaders. I used to reload commercially. The company used Camdex (electric motor driven 5000+ rnds/hr) machines for the standard, high volume loads. I was the shop monkey that loaded the custom and short (say 20 to 50 thousand or less) runs on Dillon 1000s (no longer made but similar to the 1050) and the old C&H inline progressive (can you say "reloader's elbow"?). I currently use a Dillon 1050. It's safe to say I've reloaded into the seven figures on progressive presses. The above observations are based on my experience.

For my personal reloading on my 1050 here are some things I do to ensure quality ammo. First, it ain't a test to see if you can exceed the published max cyclic rate of the machine. Background music is fine, no TV, no conversations, pay attention to the "feel" and sound of the machine. Take regular breaks in a long run of production.  Consistency is the mother of all accuracy, a smooth consistent stroke on the op handle gives the best results. I don't use an automatic primer feeder, so when I load a new tube of 100 primers (I do have the low primer alarm), I take the opportunity to keep the powder at a consistent level, blow off any accumulated powder on the shell plate, visually check for anything out of place, and run a few rounds through a "max cartridge gauge" (I use Midway's).

All the bad rounds I have found were attributable to bad cases (wrinkled or split), a flipped/crushed primer, a cast bullet with flashing attached or etc. In other words a bad component or operator error.

YMMV, remember safety first, and always use eye protection.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 12:18:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 12:18:32 PM EDT by ghengiskhabb]
Just put the rounds in the go/no-go gauge and tap them to size with a hammer.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 12:43:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EightySecond:

Originally Posted By Saber7:
If it fits in the magazine, it shoots.


Pro Tip: You should stick to buying loaded rounds and avoid getting into handloading.


Assuming the OP is not loading the bullet to touch the lands, and it fits the magazine, .003" OAL too long will not cause any problems.  Might affect accuracy though.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 12:44:25 PM EDT
Don't you hate it when you didn't even listen to yourself.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:50:06 PM EDT




Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

.003 is a big deal?




It is when they are .003 longer than the magazine.  
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:26:10 PM EDT



Originally Posted By rangermonroe:





Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

.003 is a big deal?




It is when they are .003 longer than the magazine.  


You didn't mention that in the OP...  I thought you were beyond "just touching" rifling by a good amount or something when I made my sarcastic remark.



In this case, looks like you'll need to get out the hammer and start tapping them as posted above.



Progressives are awesome!  I never thought I could load 1,000 rounds in an hour without hydraulics and motors until I loaded on an 1050.



 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 5:28:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 5:29:26 PM EDT by PantherArms762]
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:

Originally Posted By PantherArms762:
.003 is a big deal?


It is when they are .003 longer than the magazine.  


I thought you meant over nominal or something. Yeah, I guess if it doesn't fit in the mag, that would cause issues.

Or you could throw the rounds at the bad guys ala Hot Shots Part Deaux.

ETA: Consider yourself laughed at.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:28:47 PM EDT
350 is not bad, we had an issue of similar proportions but the round count was a lot higher, that took almost as long to correct as it did to load 'em up. Lessons learned here will likely not be repeated in the future
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:55:05 PM EDT



Originally Posted By rangermonroe:





Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

.003 is a big deal?




It is when they are .003 longer than the magazine.  


Try an old school 20 round mag.



My PERFECT seating depth for 55 gr NBT will NOT fit in a 30 round mag, but fits perfectly in a 20 rounder.



I love watching prairie dogs launch...




 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:03:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 8:07:55 PM EDT by THR-Thumper]
Crap...who hasn't ever done something similar.

Any handloading lessons that don't involve loud noises are cheap ones. No biggie.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:59:51 PM EDT



Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:


Crap...who hasn't ever done something similar.



Any handloading lessons that don't involve loud noises are cheap ones. No biggie.


Ahhh, the dreaded "'Click' when expecting a Bang", the loudest noise known.



 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:06:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 11:00:24 PM EDT by DuraToTheMax]
You stupid butthole.






Should've bought a 650. And a fucking micrometer.







(but I've done the same thing.
)

 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:22:55 PM EDT





I see a relation....

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:24:30 PM EDT
ITDCCVSR
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:41:44 PM EDT





Can't be.  Bert has a hint of a neck.





 

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Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:49:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 10:51:41 PM EDT by ChrisGarrett]
Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:
Crap...who hasn't ever done something similar.

Any handloading lessons that don't involve loud noises are cheap ones. No biggie.


Completely agree with you.

Hell, if you reload long enough, you'll have some issues and make mistakes:

I've dumped one powder into another, before learning the 'one can on the bench at a time' rule.

I've had primers go in backwards and sideways.

I've had powder bridge out all over the bench, a few times.

I've primed brass for storage and failed to label it, forgetting which brand/type I used.

I've had to go back and measure 50 loaded rounds, just to make sure I hadn't failed to drop a charge.

I've forgotten to close the drain spout on my ChargeMaster 1500 and poured powder into the hopper.

I've crunched case mouths because I didn't insert the case into the holder, far enough.

I've failed to charge two 223 cases in one session and failed to punch a bad primer out, in another.

Hopefully, I've learned from these mistakes and they're few and far between, going forward.  Thankfully, knock on wood, I've never had a KB.

Chris

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 10:54:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 10:59:25 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
There's ways to accurize your machine for cranking out rifle rounds.

1) always quality check every 50 rounds or less
2) Put torque putty on your die threads so you'll know if they break lose.
3) add some helicoil liners to the alignment holes of the tool head and use screws to secure the tool head in place (it's an ad-on kit on-line but you can DIY, get your own parts)

That and just keeping an eye on things I get really consistant ammo.

ETA .003 aint a big deal.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 11:18:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:

Nothing quite as fun as running through 1200 rounds of 9mm only to realize that somewhere along the line your case mouth opening die slipped out of adjustment, and now about 400 of your 'Finished' rounds have part of the jacket shaved off, and 700 of them bulged and now they won't fit into a Cartridge Case Gauge so they may not even chamber safely in your gun to begin with.

Major waste of components, IMHO.  


In the tens of thousands of rounds I've loaded on Dillon 550's and 650's, I've never had anything like that happen.  I can't even remember having a round that didn't function properly (other than the one .223 that I missed the case trim on).
Link Posted: 7/23/2010 4:32:58 AM EDT
Sheesh.  Doesn't matter how "correctly" you set up your press, or whether you're using a single-stage or progressive.  The lesson to be learned here is that you gotta check your rounds regularly.

I spent a decade using only a single-stage Rockchucker before I went to a Dillon 550B about 10 years back.  Check, check, and check your rounds!

On the Dillon, once I have everything set, I don't run more than 100 rounds through it before I run a check on the rounds.  Usually when it's time to reload the primer tube, I'll grab a few rounds, inspect them visually, and drop them into a guage.  Throw a few powder charges onto the scale to make sure it's still dropping the right weight, etc.  This is in addition to watching everything as I run the press, constantly looking for any issues (especially double-powder drops or no-powder).

Worst case, I have maybe 100 rounds that go into the "unsure - pull them later".

Safety first!
Link Posted: 7/23/2010 1:43:39 PM EDT



Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:


Crap...who hasn't ever done something similar.



Any handloading lessons that don't involve loud noises are cheap ones. No biggie.


I loaded up a batch of .45acp once using the start load listed in the Accurate manual. Used Accurate #5 and 200gr cast .452. On firing through my 1911, they sounded like a .30-30 and kicked like a mule and flattened primers, but didn't pierce or flow any. I ran 3 over my Chrony, and they were clocking around 1,200fps! The manual said they were supposed to run around 800. So I pulled them and weighed everything out and double checked the data, and I had everything perfect. I never did figure that one out. I guess it was just a freak combination of that particular powder, primer, brass, bullet, and pistol.

 
Link Posted: 7/23/2010 1:49:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EightySecond:

Originally Posted By Saber7:
If it fits in the magazine, it shoots.


Pro Tip: You should stick to buying loaded rounds and avoid getting into handloading.


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