is there any ballistical advantage to a .357mag vr a .38 +P in a 2" snubby?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - is there any ballistical advantage to a .357mag vr a .38 +P in a 2" snubby?

1911greg Joined Nov 2001 Posts 10527 EE Offline USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 3:45:31 PM EST Some say yes, some say no. It seems like the .357 has a lot more power behind it, but i wonder if its wasted?

AngeredKabar Hoplophobics, unite at 37°07′N, 116°03′ Joined Nov 2007 Posts 4378 EE Offline KS, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 3:47:09 PM EST Sure some pressure is wasted in a revolver with a 2" barrel. But get a .357 Mag revolver anyways so you can shoot .38 Special too.
	Seriously, who the heck is John Galt

JohnMayer NOYFB Joined Jan 2008 Posts 293 EE Offline KY, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 3:48:12 PM EST In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.
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Old_Painless

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Posted: 6/3/2008 3:53:52 PM EST

[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 3:54:29 PM EST by Old_Painless]

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

To really get the extra velocity and power of a .357 Magnum, you need a long barrel.

Otherwise, you just get very loud noises and a lot of recoil.

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machinisttx machinist by trade Joined Jul 2006 Posts 4287 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 3:53:54 PM EST I've been meaning to go shoot some 38 and 357 loads from my snubbies over my chronograph. The velocity will be higher, I just don't know how much higher.
	Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..

blackascoal

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Posted: 6/3/2008 3:58:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

To really get the extra velocity and power of a .357 Magnum, you need a long barrel.

Otherwise, you just get very loud noises and a lot of recoil.

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

FrankSymptoms Veteran of the Third Battle of Tannhauser Gate. Joined Dec 2005 Posts 9607 EE Offline NM, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 4:05:57 PM EST As for the shorter bbl on the .357: there are some ammo companies making ammo that will make up for the difference. This is faster-burning ammo that is designed for short barreled revolvers.
	In any survival situation, you should try to keep your friends alive as long as possible. They stay fresh longer that way. Proud member of Ranstad's Militia!

1911greg

Joined Nov 2001
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Posted: 6/3/2008 4:13:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
As for the shorter bbl on the .357: there are some ammo companies making ammo that will make up for the difference. This is faster-burning ammo that is designed for short barreled revolvers.

What brands?

nhsport

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Posted: 6/3/2008 4:23:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

To really get the extra velocity and power of a .357 Magnum, you need a long barrel.

Otherwise, you just get very loud noises and a lot of recoil.

Once again I agree with the good guy (op!)
My 2" carry gun (why else would you want a 2" gun?) is an air weight 38 and with 38+p it is all I want. Would a similar weight 357 gun have more power ,yes , but I don't feel I have the ability for multiple aimed shots in any kind of rapid fashion.
I shoot a 3" 629 44 mag (it is a heavy gun) fairly well and it snorts pretty good but the lightweight 357's are just plain nasty.

Now I have a l frame 686 with a 3" barrel that shoots well but it isn't real usefull for a carry gun with the full size grip frame and a full lug barrel.

Folks may buy and shoot what they want but I look on this current of supper lightweight
higher powered guns and can't but think they are one shot wonders because the average shooter is going to be so hurting after the first shot that further shots will be misses.

Troy

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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:22:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

Agreed. The small increase in velocity isn't worth the much larger (perceived) recoil and muzzle blast.

-Troy

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Barrel? Go CHROME or go home.

Keith_J Veteran Joined Jan 2001 Posts 21370 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 5:24:10 PM EST A 2" .357 will make you go blind if fired at night. Not very wise.
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Troy

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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:24:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
As for the shorter bbl on the .357: there are some ammo companies making ammo that will make up for the difference. This is faster-burning ammo that is designed for short barreled revolvers.

What brands?

Speer makes a Gold Dot loading especially for short-barreled .38's that is tuned to work very well.

www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

-Troy

Ammo FAQ: www.ammo-oracle.com
(Old) Mag FAQ: magfaq.tripod.com
Barrel? Go CHROME or go home.

Mackinaw

Joined Oct 2007
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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:28:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By blackascoal:

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone could tell the difference on the receiving end. Miss or a hit.

machinisttx

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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:51:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By nhsport:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

To really get the extra velocity and power of a .357 Magnum, you need a long barrel.

Otherwise, you just get very loud noises and a lot of recoil.

Once again I agree with the good guy (op!)
My 2" carry gun (why else would you want a 2" gun?) is an air weight 38 and with 38+p it is all I want. Would a similar weight 357 gun have more power ,yes , but I don't feel I have the ability for multiple aimed shots in any kind of rapid fashion.
I shoot a 3" 629 44 mag (it is a heavy gun) fairly well and it snorts pretty good but the lightweight 357's are just plain nasty.

Now I have a l frame 686 with a 3" barrel that shoots well but it isn't real usefull for a carry gun with the full size grip frame and a full lug barrel.

Folks may buy and shoot what they want but I look on this current of supper lightweight
higher powered guns and can't but think they are one shot wonders because the average shooter is going to be so hurting after the first shot that further shots will be misses.

Um, why not? I have a 2.5" M66(K frame) that I carry occasionally. It's not significantly smaller than an equivalent L frame. I'm not particularly well built for concealed carry, but it's easy enough to conceal.

Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..

IAMLEGEND Legal Alien Joined Nov 2004 Posts 16121 EE Offline CO, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 5:54:50 PM EST Probably more worth it for the ability to shoot a wider variety of ammo than ballistic advantage. I don't know what the odds are of finding yourself with a box of 357 and your snubby (that may or may not be able to shoot it) in some weird situation but it's possible.
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V-Match

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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:56:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
A 2" .357 will make you go blind if fired at night.

Not very wise.

yup, deaf too.

+p for me...

TurdyDingo

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Posted: 6/3/2008 5:57:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By blackascoal:

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone could tell the difference on the receiving end. Miss or a hit.

Yeah. In <2" barrels I just use regular .38s, not even P+

Shot placement and follow-up is a hell of a lot more important than the fps increase you'd get in +P or .357 mag (I'm talking out of my ass, but pretty sure about it

)

Only_Hits_Count

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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:06:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By blackascoal:

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone could tell the difference on the receiving end. Miss or a hit.

+p in an aluminum frame with small grips isn't really pleasant....and that was with hearing protection and during the day.... at night and /or without hearing protection- you may be startled by the difference. Seriously.

IIRC, you'd need at least a 4ich barrel for the .357 or +p to be worthwhile.

machinisttx

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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:10:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
A 2" .357 will make you go blind if fired at night.

Not very wise.

I've fired mine at night and had no such problem.

Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..

machinisttx

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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:11:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By blackascoal:

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone could tell the difference on the receiving end. Miss or a hit.

+p in an aluminum frame with small grips isn't really pleasant....and that was with hearing protection and during the day.... at night and /or without hearing protection- you may be startled by the difference. Seriously.

IIRC, you'd need at least a 4ich barrel for the .357 or +p to be worthwhile.

SP101 FTW

Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..

HoustonHusker

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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:13:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

To really get the extra velocity and power of a .357 Magnum, you need a long barrel.

Otherwise, you just get very loud noises and a lot of recoil.

Wasn't it Jeff Cooper who said, "..a short barreled .357 is nothing but a loud .38"?

HH

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Only_Hits_Count

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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:22:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By machinisttx:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By blackascoal:

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone could tell the difference on the receiving end. Miss or a hit.

+p in an aluminum frame with small grips isn't really pleasant....and that was with hearing protection and during the day.... at night and /or without hearing protection- you may be startled by the difference. Seriously.

IIRC, you'd need at least a 4ich barrel for the .357 or +p to be worthwhile.

SP101 FTW

I'd take the 3 inch .ver if I had a choice.

blackascoal

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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:26:24 PM EST

[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 6:26:47 PM EST by blackascoal]

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By blackascoal:

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone could tell the difference on the receiving end. Miss or a hit.

\
You could cook them with the muzzle blast at close range .

DoctorNo 1* Joined Oct 2001 Posts 1073 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 6:26:52 PM EST Tag for Old_Painless's testing not gunstore jibba jabba. Doc

BatcaveSouth

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Posted: 6/3/2008 6:47:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

To really get the extra velocity and power of a .357 Magnum, you need a long barrel.

Otherwise, you just get very loud noises and a lot of recoil.

I've always believed a 2'' .357 is just a hard kickin' .38 spl. So i agree.

Combat_Jack Member Joined Dec 2001 Posts 35815 EE Offline USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 7:08:11 PM EST Performance of similar .38 and .357 rounds are nearly identical in gelatin and therefore in tissue.
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vanilla_gorilla

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Posted: 6/3/2008 7:16:36 PM EST

[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 7:17:04 PM EST by vanilla_gorilla]

With QUALITY hollowpoint rounds, i.e. Gold Dots or similar, out of a 2 inch gun, I think there is a definite difference in velocity, as well as recoil For most people, the .38 +P round will be every bit as effective, and will provide for much quicker followup shots. Two .38 JHPs are better than 1 .357, as long as all the rounds reach important parts of the bad guy.

With that said, my larger guns (S&W N frames, 4+ inch barrels) are loaded with .357 rounds, not .38 +Ps.

If violence isn't the answer, you may be asking the wrong question

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shotar

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Posted: 6/3/2008 7:19:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By JohnMayer:
In the same length barrel, 357 always beats 38.

While this is technically true, the trade-off in muzzle blast and recoil is believed by many (including me) to be too high.

To really get the extra velocity and power of a .357 Magnum, you need a long barrel.

Otherwise, you just get very loud noises and a lot of recoil.

You forgot lower hit probability on follow up shots as well.

Trusting your life to the benevolence of an armed criminal is not a strategy, it is stupid!

machinisttx

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Posted: 6/3/2008 7:21:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By machinisttx:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By blackascoal:

In a self defense situation that is a two edged sword.

While it is a nuisance to the shooter it is also a major psychological factor to the person you are shooting at if perchance you should miss .
I would want the edge it can give you if my life was on the line .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone could tell the difference on the receiving end. Miss or a hit.

+p in an aluminum frame with small grips isn't really pleasant....and that was with hearing protection and during the day.... at night and /or without hearing protection- you may be startled by the difference. Seriously.

IIRC, you'd need at least a 4ich barrel for the .357 or +p to be worthwhile.

SP101 FTW

I'd take the 3 inch .ver if I had a choice.

I agree. I like my 2.25" version, but I wanted a 3" when I found this one. For ~$250 OTD, I wasn't going to pass this one up though. Eventually I'll get a 3".

Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..

machinisttx

machinist by trade

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Posts 4311
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Posted: 6/3/2008 7:23:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
With QUALITY hollowpoint rounds, i.e. Gold Dots or similar, out of a 2 inch gun, I think there is a definite difference in velocity, as well as recoil For most people, the .38 +P round will be every bit as effective, and will provide for much quicker followup shots. Two .38 JHPs are better than 1 .357, as long as all the rounds reach important parts of the bad guy.

With that said, my larger guns (S&W N frames, 4+ inch barrels) are loaded with .357 rounds, not .38 +Ps.

Any of my .357's that stay loaded are stoked with 125 grain SJHP magnum loads.

Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..

seahorse Member Joined May 2004 Posts 929 EE Offline SC, USA	Posted: 6/3/2008 7:29:01 PM EST I went retro, from a 357mag S&W 640 2" to a 38spl Model 36 3". It is more shootable, which translates to better accuracy. If I feel the need, the old FBI load (38spl+P, 158 gr, LHP) is good PD round.
	Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig. After a while you'll figure out he likes it.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - is there any ballistical advantage to a .357mag vr a .38 +P in a 2" snubby?

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