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Posted: 10/2/2005 5:01:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:30:34 PM EDT by gunsanplanes]
just curious, as i see yet another dui type post with view points that seem to go to extremes.

the concept here is responsible drinking, not hitting .08 bac, and not showing obvious signs of impairment........can it be done?

i ask because it seems that an awefull lot of members seem to think that any drinking at all virtually guarantees that that person will either crash, or kill someone, it's certain to happen.

personally, i think there's a difference between having a few and then driving, and driving drunk.

and to head off the "if you are gonna have even one, take a cab" crowd, why is that? the law allows up to a certain point, doesn't it? if a person is under .08 and not showing signs of undue impairment, why can't they drive?


america isn't one huge-ass city, there are a shitload of places with no cab service or public transportation, and not everybody has a designated driver hanging around just chompin' at the bit to play the hero.

so, can it be done or not? poll to follow.

parting thought, drinking and driving is like gun violence in a way......you never hear of the 86 million gun owners that didn't hurt anybody with their guns, you only see the headlines of the miniscule percentage that did, and............you can't, or won't acknowlege the vast number of people that drink and drive responsibly home with no problems, you only focus on the small percentage that you read about that did fuck up.

shit, i spelled polls "poles"
and i can't edit it....please don't sic the spelling and grammar nazis on me.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:04:00 PM EDT
I do it all the time. I know my limit. Its about being responsible when I drive my friends to/from bars.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:10:22 PM EDT
When they first studied it (back in the 50's I believe) they set the limit at .15 (or thereabouts) then it went down a little, then MADD started raising hell, then it went down some more, now it's at 0.08 and you can bet that Euro standards (Sweden is 0.02 I believe) are the end objective.

I suspect that the point of diminishing returns (as far as removing genuinely impaired drivers) has already been passed, but DUI's are a good revenue source (for the lawyers, insurance companies, the city coffers, and the judges' campaign funds) and are wildly popular with soccer mom voting blocks, so as the pool of drunks decreases, watch for BAC limits to drop to keep the cash & votes rolling in.

Nobody I know defends the sloshed losers who endanger everyone, on the other hand, having a couple of glasses of wine with dinner can stigmatize a person as the next Charles Manson.

0.10 seemed perfectly reasonable, IMO.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:10:55 PM EDT
2-3 beers spread out over 2-3 hours with at least an hour after finishing the last one before driving
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:16:46 PM EDT
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:19:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:20:29 PM EDT by BarnStormer]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



So you are saying that a person that has a single glass of wine with dinner is a drunk driver?

If that is the case, I better get someone to come pick me up for the ride to work because of the alcohol content in my mouth wash.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:24:50 PM EDT by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



Apparently you think it's OK to drink kool-aid and post. You're putting people's lives at risk every time you drive anyway. The question is whether or not you unreasonably enhance that risk by your other conduct. Are you similarly outraged about people who drive home after pulling a double shift?

How would people get home from church if the twisted-panty crowd actually believed what they say?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:21:17 PM EDT
I can have one drink and still be sober. I never have more than one if I know I'm going to be driving in the next few hours, though.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:22:28 PM EDT
Yes it is. The average adult can metabolize one unit of alcohol per hour according to the state certification class I had to take to be a bartender. Just keep it that pace or slower and like someone already said allow an hour from your last drink til your wheel time.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:22:50 PM EDT
Wow! I came from the thread that had an 18 year old girl that was hungover off pot and little sleep accidentally run over a woman and you all say she should be shot or locked up forever. They didn't have a BAC level for her.

In this thread you say for the most part that a little alcohol and driving is ok.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:23:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merrell:

0.10 seemed perfectly reasonable, IMO.




The only guy I ever met who actually knew exactly what .10 felt like (he was a volunteer drinker when the cops demonstrated the Intoxylizer at a Bar Association lunch) said that at .10 he was so drunk he couldn't find his ass with both hands.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:28:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



just curious, do you ever have your familly in the car while driving at night, driving in the rain, or driving in the snow? you do realize the those conditions put you at a proven disadvantage, a form of "natural impairment" if you will. is it responsible to drive when you don't have the advantage of dry roads and daylight? i bet you do, though, and somehow that's totally alright.
it's funny to believe that even a single drink makes all others at risk when that person drives, yet totally strait people accept and engage in different, yet just as bad, activities on the road.

disclaimer: not calling you out,dude, just making a point.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:30:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



So you are saying that a person that has a single glass of wine with dinner is a drunk driver?

If that is the case, I better get someone to come pick me up for the ride to work because of the alcohol content in my mouth wash.



I figured i may get some touchy responses, but i feel if your gonna drink dont drive. I dont know how many drinks it takes for each Individual to get drunk. it may be 2 it maybe 3 or if you are a reg drinker then may be 6 i dont know. If you have someone with you who hasnt drank then let them drive. also i have some advive for you and your mouth wash. DONT SWALLOW!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:30:31 PM EDT
Yes.

I know that it is possible to consume about 3 pitchers of beer over a 5 hour period and then drive an hour and a half home.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:32:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunsanplanes:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



just curious, do you ever have your familly in the car while driving at night, driving in the rain, or driving in the snow? you do realize the those conditions put you at a proven disadvantage, a form of "natural impairment" if you will. is it responsible to drive when you don't have the advantage of dry roads and daylight? i bet you do, though, and somehow that's totally alright.
it's funny to believe that even a single drink makes all others at risk when that person drives, yet totally strait people accept and engage in different, yet just as bad, activities on the road.

disclaimer: not calling you out,dude, just making a point.



This is about drinking alcholic beverages, it isnt about every day driving and the risks you take every time you get behind a wheel. the obvious is clear. I agree that there may be some people who have a drink can drive better than some asshat thats on the road sober.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:32:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Merrell:

0.10 seemed perfectly reasonable, IMO.




The only guy I ever met who actually knew exactly what .10 felt like (he was a volunteer drinker when the cops demonstrated the Intoxylizer at a Bar Association lunch) said that at .10 he was so drunk he couldn't find his ass with both hands.




I'm just going by all the testing that was done that initially pegged it at 0.15, then dropped it to 0.10 for a long, long time.

Doubtless there are people who couldn't find their ass after a glass of wine, and seasoned drinkers who could polish of a six with little effect, the point is that extensive testing was done and the average was determined to be higher than the tests today find. Is it better science today or more pressure to validate a popular position? Probably a little of both.

I might also add that there are plenty of stone cold sober drivers who make some drunks look good. If safety was really the name of the game, we would have legitimate driving tests, not once around the mall and a three point turn and here's your license.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:33:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:36:16 PM EDT by lokt]
I'm curious as to what a .08 actually feels like. Is there a 'lag time' where the % BAC of your body is actually ahead of what the breathylizer will show? As a 6'4" 210 lb fairly muscular male, what would I have to consume over the span of two hours to be over the legal limit of .08? --Mind you, I have never driven drunk nor will I ever, I'm just wondering what it would actually take for me to be considered intoxicated under state law.

Edit - that's kinda what i was thinking, merrell - that the breathylizer pegged at a level higher than what was sustained.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:35:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:37:21 PM EDT by AROKIE]
www.ohsinc.com/alcohol_abuse_addiction_BAC_CHART.htm

scroll down and read the chart


EXPECTED BLOOD ALCOHOL CONCENTRATION (“BAC”)
BASED ON THE NUMBER OF DRINKS YOU'VE CONSUMED IN A ONE-HOUR PERIOD
Remember- your sex, health, state of mind make all these expectations a bit variable.
For the purposes of this chart, “One Drink” =12 oz. Beer or 4 oz. Wine or 1 1/4 oz. 80-Proof Liquor. If you prefer 18 oz. cans of beer or 90-Proof Liquor, you need a different chart!



BAC of .01% to .05%
NOTE THAT FOR MANY PEOPLE, ONLY “ONE” DRINK WILL TAKE THEM TO THIS LEVEL OF DECREASED COORDINATION.
Some-to-great loss of judgment and coordination, thinking dulled, changes in mood and behavior. A BAC of 0.02% at many U.S. companies will require that an employee be relieved of duty for 24 hours and at 0.04 they will be fired. In an organization with a "zero-tolerance" policy as regards alcohol use, you will be fired if you test at 0.001% (which is less than 0.010%)




BAC of .05% to .08%
NOTE THAT EVERYONE HAS REACHED THIS POINT AFTER JUST THEIR 1ST OR 2ND DRINK!
Functioning ability definitely impaired. Walking, speech, and hand movements clumsy. Blurred, split, or tunnel vision may occur. Judgment and equipment operating ability impaired. Chance of accident is greatly increased by up to 300% or more
.




BAC of .08% and over
NOTE THAT SOME PEOPLE REACH THIS POINT BY THEIR 2ND DRINK AND ALL HAVE BY THEIR 3RD OR 4TH.
Functioning and judgment very seriously affected. Responses greatly slowed. Behavior greatly affected. Very high risk of accident. In most U.S. States, with a BAC of .08% or higher, you will be arrested if driving a car.


.


CLICK HERE for the BAC levels in each U.S. State at which you will be (and should be!) arrested if you are caught driving a car.



Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:39:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:48:18 PM EDT by JHMC79]
At the peak of my manhood, I drove my motorcycle to a local bar, drank three pitchers of beer and picked up a hot blonde.

On the way home I was stopped by a red light. Feeling quite good, with the blonde on the back of the hog, I thought to myself, It's never going to get any better than this.

And indeed, 5 years later it has not.

As long as you know your limitations, drinking and driving is not the monstrocity that MADD would have you believe.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:40:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
BAC of .05% to .08%
NOTE THAT EVERYONE HAS REACHED THIS POINT AFTER JUST THEIR 1ST OR 2ND DRINK!
Functioning ability definitely impaired. Walking, speech, and hand movements clumsy. Blurred, split, or tunnel vision may occur. Judgment and equipment operating ability impaired. Chance of accident is greatly increased by up to 300% or more
.



Sorry, that does not happen to me after my 1st or second drink, whether they are immediately successive or drawn out. EVER. Might my reaction times be imperceptibly slowed? possibly, but that's not an issue because one of the few things that are an absolute for me is never EVER drinking and driving. I'm curious as to the source of this stuff.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:45:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:46:03 PM EDT by AROKIE]

Originally Posted By lokt:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
BAC of .05% to .08%
NOTE THAT EVERYONE HAS REACHED THIS POINT AFTER JUST THEIR 1ST OR 2ND DRINK!
Functioning ability definitely impaired. Walking, speech, and hand movements clumsy. Blurred, split, or tunnel vision may occur. Judgment and equipment operating ability impaired. Chance of accident is greatly increased by up to 300% or more
.



Sorry, that does not happen to me after my 1st or second drink, whether they are immediately successive or drawn out. EVER. Might my reaction times be imperceptibly slowed? possibly, but that's not an issue because one of the few things that are an absolute for me is never EVER drinking and driving. I'm curious as to the source of this stuff.



look at my link in the above post, OR you can check any certified health web site and see for your self all BAC charts are the same
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:46:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:55:33 PM EDT by AR15fan]
I have arrested plenty of driunk drivers who tried to do the responsible thing and only have a few drinks over the course of several hours. Unfortunately what often happenss is after the first couple, inhibitions decrease enought that they decide to have a few more. Before you know it the bar is closing and they had 7 drinks in 3 or 4 hours.

Just as bad is the "responsible" drinker who only had a glass of wine with dinner, but also had her Xanax with breakfast for her anxiety, or her Adderall for ADD, or her Vicodin for her toothache.

The simple solution is no driving for 8 hours after consuming any alcohol and no driving for 24 hours after consuming any anti-depressant, anti-anxiety tranq, sleep aid, benzo, Muscle relaxer or Narcotic analgesic.

Those addicted to opiates should NEVER drive as the opiate addict is *always* either under the influence of the drug or suffering the physical withdrawal effects of the drug.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:47:31 PM EDT
Some folks, especially women, are impaired well below 0.08. It is all in the investigation, video and paperwork, whether you are guilty or not. Your lawyer win$, whether you do or not.

Designate a driver. Buy them soda.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:47:46 PM EDT
yep, go to a tittie bar, drink a few, sit around for a while and enjoy the show, then take off later.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:51:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



So you are saying that a person that has a single glass of wine with dinner is a drunk driver?




Depends on how big a glass, body weight, gender, tolerance to the effects of alcohol, and what other drugs they used recently. a 90 pound old woman who had one glass of wine and a valium is somebody you dont want anywhere near a motor vehicle. I only bring up the Rx drug issue because its so common.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:52:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:53:34 PM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
BAC of .05% to .08%

NOTE THAT EVERYONE HAS REACHED THIS POINT AFTER JUST THEIR 1ST OR 2ND DRINK!

Functioning ability definitely impaired. Walking, speech, and hand movements clumsy. Blurred, split, or tunnel vision may occur. Judgment and equipment operating ability impaired. Chance of accident is greatly increased by up to 300% or more.



This is incorrect or at the very least incomplete. Even if we are talking back to back hard liquor shoots and a test 10 minutes later you would still see only a portion of the people sampled testing dirty.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:55:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
BAC of .05% to .08%

NOTE THAT EVERYONE HAS REACHED THIS POINT AFTER JUST THEIR 1ST OR 2ND DRINK!

Functioning ability definitely impaired. Walking, speech, and hand movements clumsy. Blurred, split, or tunnel vision may occur. Judgment and equipment operating ability impaired. Chance of accident is greatly increased by up to 300% or more.



This is incorrect or at the very least incomplete. Even if we are talking back to back hard liquor shoots and a test 10 minutes later you would still see only a portion of the people sampled testing dirty.



how do you think that is incorrect? does your independant studies show differently?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:57:27 PM EDT
There is a time-table of the consumption of alcohol versus the time, it is okay to consume alcohol but you should wait until the body has digested it. Usually I drink one beer at dinner, and if I'm out I will let the wife drive home, just in case.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:00:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
There is a time-table of the consumption of alcohol versus the time, it is okay to consume alcohol but you should wait until the body has digested it. Usually I drink one beer at dinner, and if I'm out I will let the wife drive home, just in case.



Bingo! we have a winner!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:02:20 PM EDT
I had 2 beers over 4 hours one night a few years ago. I was given a breath test at a checkpoint and blew a .06!! Thats considered "impared" in NY and would have been a $500 fine but the cops told me to let my passenger drive (who was so trashed, I made him pull over a little ways down the road so I could drive cuz he was about to kill us).
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:06:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JHMC79:
At the peak of my manhood, I drove my motorcycle to a local bar, drank three pitchers of beer and picked up a hot blonde.

On the way home I was stopped by a red light. Feeling quite good, with the blonde on the back of the hog, I thought to myself, It's never going to get any better than this.

And indeed, 5 years later it has not.

As long as you know your limitations, drinking and driving is not the monstrocity that MADD would have you believe.



Mixing alcohol and riding is even more dangerous, to the rider, than driving while intoxicated. It's interesting that you proved your manhood and reached a moment of clarity risking the life of a young woman and yourself.

I guarantee you haven't repeated that consistently over the last five years or you wouldn't have been posting this.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:06:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 6:07:13 PM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
BAC of .05% to .08%

NOTE THAT EVERYONE HAS REACHED THIS POINT AFTER JUST THEIR 1ST OR 2ND DRINK!

Functioning ability definitely impaired. Walking, speech, and hand movements clumsy. Blurred, split, or tunnel vision may occur. Judgment and equipment operating ability impaired. Chance of accident is greatly increased by up to 300% or more.



This is incorrect or at the very least incomplete. Even if we are talking back to back hard liquor shoots and a test 10 minutes later you would still see only a portion of the people sampled testing dirty.



how do you think that is incorrect? does your independant studies show differently?



Well, lets see. First off I have taken and the state certification course for the TN alcoholic beverage commission , several hours of which are devoted to this topic. Then I had to be recertified by taking the class again. Then I served alcohol for almost 4 years total, 3 as a bartender. So yeah, I have a bit of experience. Now to the crux, why is it incorrect? Reread what I typed in my last post.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:11:03 PM EDT
I am sure that any responsible drinker knows when to call it quits. However if I am going to have more than one drink (which is exceedingly rare) I will not drive.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:12:18 PM EDT
Just one drink impairs the ability to drive. However imperceptible, that's a fact.

However, there are so many people that do stupid shit on the road while sober that I doubt having some drivers on the road with a low BAC is going to make any difference.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:12:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



Umm, are you a Soccer Mom?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:15:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 6:15:37 PM EDT by AROKIE]

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
BAC of .05% to .08%

NOTE THAT EVERYONE HAS REACHED THIS POINT AFTER JUST THEIR 1ST OR 2ND DRINK!

Functioning ability definitely impaired. Walking, speech, and hand movements clumsy. Blurred, split, or tunnel vision may occur. Judgment and equipment operating ability impaired. Chance of accident is greatly increased by up to 300% or more.



This is incorrect or at the very least incomplete. Even if we are talking back to back hard liquor shoots and a test 10 minutes later you would still see only a portion of the people sampled testing dirty.



how do you think that is incorrect? does your independant studies show differently?



Well, lets see. First off I have taken and the state certification course for the TN alcoholic beverage commission , several hours of which are devoted to this topic. Then I had to be recertified by taking the class again. Then I served alcohol for almost 4 years total, 3 as a bartender. So yeah, I have a bit of experience. Now to the crux, why is it incorrect? Reread what I typed in my last post.



lol im glad you had so much experiance pouring drinks behind a bar, im sure that will suffice in some peoples eyes, but sorry not mine. I too have shot thousands of rounds and taken shooting classes but that doenst make me a navy seal does it? no it does not. and I have read all your posts and have come to a conclusion that you think that 4 yrs of bartending overules what scientific studies have shown.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:16:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FooDog:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



Umm, are you a Soccer Mom?



no why? cant find your mommy?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:18:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By FooDog:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
dont drink and drive period!! if you want to be responsible get a sober driver.
stop putting others lifes at risk becuase of stupidity.



Umm, are you a Soccer Mom?



no why? cant find your mommy?



Apparently I have.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:


lol im glad you had so much experiance pouring drinks behind a bar, im sure that will suffice in some peoples eyes, but sorry not mine. I too have shot thousands of rounds and taken shooting classes but that doenst make me a navy seal does it? no it does not. and I have read all your posts and have come to a conclusion that you think that 4 yrs of bartending overules what scientific studies have shown.



Well your classes must have sucked or you're so arrogant you feel you know more than your instructors. I on the other hand listened to what I was taught which is actual proven medical fact, not some random snippet from the internet. I'll put the veracity of my certification board up against your internet webpage info any day.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:24:22 PM EDT
Go dig up Greenberg's study from 1955 (which stated that presumptive intoxication was not reached until 0.15, while allowing that other factors could lower the threshold to below 0.05)

That was straight science, and was before the MADD crew started using BAC as a tool of political extortion.

I will stand by my assertion that if safer motoring was the primary issue, that we would have far more stringent driving tests.



Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:29:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:


lol im glad you had so much experiance pouring drinks behind a bar, im sure that will suffice in some peoples eyes, but sorry not mine. I too have shot thousands of rounds and taken shooting classes but that doenst make me a navy seal does it? no it does not. and I have read all your posts and have come to a conclusion that you think that 4 yrs of bartending overules what scientific studies have shown.



Well your classes must have sucked or you're so arrogant you feel you know more than your instructors. I on the other hand listened to what I was taught which is actual proven medical fact, not some random snippet from the internet. I'll put the veracity of my certification board up against your internet webpage info any day.



what instructors? lol when did i say i knew more than an instrucotr?
your certification for bartending? hey im glad you have a certificate in bartending, you should know the BAC chart then why argue against that?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:38:08 PM EDT
1 beer per hour = warm beer, which really sucks, thats why if im going to drink i do it at home.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:43:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:


lol im glad you had so much experiance pouring drinks behind a bar, im sure that will suffice in some peoples eyes, but sorry not mine. I too have shot thousands of rounds and taken shooting classes but that doenst make me a navy seal does it? no it does not. and I have read all your posts and have come to a conclusion that you think that 4 yrs of bartending overules what scientific studies have shown.



Well your classes must have sucked or you're so arrogant you feel you know more than your instructors. I on the other hand listened to what I was taught which is actual proven medical fact, not some random snippet from the internet. I'll put the veracity of my certification board up against your internet webpage info any day.



what instructors? lol when did i say i knew more than an instrucotr?
your certification for bartending? hey im glad you have a certificate in bartending, you should know the BAC chart then why argue against that?



The certification is to sell alcohol, everyone who does so has to take the class. What's your background other than taking the word of a private company's abbreviated chart as gospel. Go back and re-read my first post calling BS on your post. If you can't manage that you're wasting my time with your bullshit.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:46:11 PM EDT
In the early 70's, we were losing 75 people a day to drunk driving. Today, it's more like 40-45, which is still bad, but clearly an improvement.

I don't think anyone wants to go back to the old days before severe penalties, public awareness campaigns, and the lower limits. I also agree that most accidents are caused by people over the legal limit. It actually is quite liberal when you consider the stakes.

The FIRST thing to go is the judgment required to assess ones own capability. One drink and then drive super carefully, aware of the situation and compensating for it, you'll probably do just fine, and be legal. Three drinks and think, 'I've got this licked, by the balls of it!!', and you're in the kill zone.

We have the luxury of sitting here and talking about statistics. It's the victims who have done the work of changing the laws, and if the laws seem harsh, then, well... so does losing a child, parent, sibling, or friend to drunk driving.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:48:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:


lol im glad you had so much experiance pouring drinks behind a bar, im sure that will suffice in some peoples eyes, but sorry not mine. I too have shot thousands of rounds and taken shooting classes but that doenst make me a navy seal does it? no it does not. and I have read all your posts and have come to a conclusion that you think that 4 yrs of bartending overules what scientific studies have shown.



Well your classes must have sucked or you're so arrogant you feel you know more than your instructors. I on the other hand listened to what I was taught which is actual proven medical fact, not some random snippet from the internet. I'll put the veracity of my certification board up against your internet webpage info any day.



what instructors? lol when did i say i knew more than an instrucotr?
your certification for bartending? hey im glad you have a certificate in bartending, you should know the BAC chart then why argue against that?



The certification is to sell alcohol, everyone who does so has to take the class. What's your background other than taking the word of a private company's abbreviated chart as gospel. Go back and re-read my first post calling BS on your post. If you can't manage that you're wasting my time with your bullshit.



why so angry? for one im not an expert. never said i was. Im going off several medical studies and the standerdized BAC chart. which im assuming you know. but for some reason argue against it. my profession in law enforcement makes me in no way an expert. i leave all that up to the "professionals". im curious do you understand the BAC chart?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:53:55 PM EDT

Old people are FAR MORE "impaired" (in reaction speed, reflexes, vision and judgment) than I am after a beer or a glass of wine,


The whole absolutist "don't drink and drive period" is silly, and is NOT about personal responsibility, but about a big-brother attitude that someone else knows best.

Personal responsibility is ME knowing that I can have one drink (possibly two, depending on the amount of time) with dinner - and still being able to drive home safely.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:55:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Merrell:

0.10 seemed perfectly reasonable, IMO.




The only guy I ever met who actually knew exactly what .10 felt like (he was a volunteer drinker when the cops demonstrated the Intoxylizer at a Bar Association lunch) said that at .10 he was so drunk he couldn't find his ass with both hands.




I'm just going by all the testing that was done that initially pegged it at 0.15, then dropped it to 0.10 for a long, long time.

Doubtless there are people who couldn't find their ass after a glass of wine, and seasoned drinkers who could polish of a six with little effect, the point is that extensive testing was done and the average was determined to be higher than the tests today find. Is it better science today or more pressure to validate a popular position? Probably a little of both.

I might also add that there are plenty of stone cold sober drivers who make some drunks look good. If safety was really the name of the game, we would have legitimate driving tests, not once around the mall and a three point turn and here's your license.




This guy was an experienced drinker. My point is just that while I certainly know what it feels like to be drunk, I have no idea whether I'm feeling jolly and lightheaded at .03 or .15; I don't know whether I feel drunk drunk at .10 or at .35.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:56:37 PM EDT
BLAH BLAH BLAH! LET'S ALL BE PANTY WAISTS, AND SUPPORT THE VICTIMLESS CRIME LAWS!

Jesus. A lot of you need to spit the tit out, and grow up.

When I was younger, I was stupid. I would drive home after having a few drinks in an evening. I absolutely knew when I had definitely had too much. Some nights, however, I hadn't had that much, and chanced it. I made mistakes. Did anyone pay for it? No. Because nothing happened.

I'm just fine. No one is dead.

How many of us, at least once, have driven 'drunk?' A lot, I bet. How many people have died cause of it?

Not too many, if you're here posting.

Driving drunk should not be a crime.

That having been said?

Kill someone while you drive drunk, and you should go up for murder. Run off the road and KO some light posts, mailboxes, lawn jockeys... Lose your license, pay a fine, pay damages. Because at this point, you have actually done harm.

This victimless crime mode of thinking is exactly the type of shit that leads liberals to want to ban guns, and all sorts of other shit. Because of what we might do with it.

Because, you know, statistically speaking, you're far more likely to be able shoot someone if you own a gun, than if you don't own one.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:57:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
im curious do you understand the BAC chart?



Yes I do. Do you understand that the average adult liver metabolizes one liquor unit per hour and that the chart you referenced makes an incorrect sweeping statement when it says 1-2 drinks renders everyone .05-.08? Not true. Metabolism speeds will vary across the population and it depends on the time frame for the 1-2 drinks. I'm pretty much repeating my second post in this thread since you've chosen to argue it rather than read it completely.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:01:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
im curious do you understand the BAC chart?



Yes I do. Do you understand that the average adult liver metabolizes one liquor unit per hour and that the chart you referenced makes an incorrect sweeping statement when it says 1-2 drinks renders everyone .05-.08? Not true. Metabolism speeds will vary across the population and it depends on the time frame for the 1-2 drinks. I'm pretty much repeating my second post in this thread since you've chosen to argue it rather than read it completely.



They don't seem to understand that not everyone will exhibit those same signs at that level of intoxication, either.

Even assuming the chart were correct,and everyone blew a .08 after X drinks, some people just handle their liquor better. I personally know people that can walk a damned straight line, if they try, after enough beer to put my ass out. Alcohol affects different people differently, regardless of the level of intoxication. Ever met a career drunk that didn't even seem lucid until he'd had a few? I have.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:06:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 7:09:24 PM EDT by Master_of_Orion]
I voted yes... If it is truly done responsibly then it's fine.

Problem is any alcohol reduces your ability to act resposibly. It is better to not go down that slippery slope. One day you'll drink alittle too much and eithor a ticket or much worse is in your future.
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