Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/15/2005 4:52:49 PM EDT
What kind of old fashioned rifle do I want?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:55:10 PM EDT
Sharps.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:55:30 PM EDT
springfield trapdoor
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:56:00 PM EDT
I don't even drive that far some days.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:58:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 4:59:10 PM EDT by adair_usmc]

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
Sharps.



+1

I have got one in .45-120. Very nice.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:08:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
Sharps.



+2

ARH
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:14:22 PM EDT
Can you even get 1000 out of a 45/70?

Bob
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:20:50 PM EDT
Two games in town for new weapons:

Sharps, as mentioned, and Pedersoli, Italian maker of moslty cowboy type stuff.

After research, I learned Sharps are superb, expensive, and there is a several year waiting list, although with the internet, you can often find someone selling a place in line.

Pedersoli, which I have handled but never shot, $1200.00 out the door, better if you can wheel and deal.

My verdict, Pedersoli Quigley model would suit me fine.

That's as far as I got.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:24:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Can you even get 1000 out of a 45/70?

Bob



Ever hear of Adobe Walls? Billy Dixon made a 1598 yard shot with either a .50-70 or more likely, a .50-90, killing a native scout on a war party that had laid seige to the compound.

The better ballistic coefficient of the 500 grain .45-70 bullet makes it very possible.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:29:01 PM EDT
The Browning High Wall (Winchester 1885 falling-block) is pretty popular too. One of the guys at my range who shoots black-powder cartridge silhouette uses one in .40-90. Very nice.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:38:47 PM EDT
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought only Faggots and Girlymen who suckled from the teat of their mother too long shot .45/70...whereas well adjusted masculine men reared properly by their fathers, of sound mind body shot either .45-120 or .50-90.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:39:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Can you even get 1000 out of a 45/70?

Bob



Ever hear of Adobe Walls? Billy Dixon made a 1598 yard shot with either a .50-70 or more likely, a .50-90, killing a native scout on a war party that had laid seige to the compound.

The better ballistic coefficient of the 500 grain .45-70 bullet makes it very possible.



I can't find it in google, but I remember reading some tests done at come armory in CT (Springfield?) where a shooter shooting a trapdoor in .45-70 was hitting targets of MOA or less at something like a mile's distance...with iron sights. This was in the late 1800's.

It's definitily possible.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:41:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought only Faggots and Girlymen who suckled from the teat of their mother too long shot .45/70...whereas well adjusted masculine men reared properly by their fathers, of sound mind body shot either .45-120 or .50-90.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.




.45/70 is a lot easier from a logistical standpoint.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:52:11 PM EDT
The 45-70 is not the cartridge you want for 1,000. It's not even the best for 600. Better to move to something like a 40-85 or a .38-55. You get better BCs and lower recoil.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:01:09 PM EDT
Piccolo,

What I've heard from a couple long-range blackpowder shooters is that .45-70 will not be an effective round to use at 1000 yards because of the bloop trajectory. .45-90 is what they recommended. I forget the name of the manufacturer, but the iron-sighted rifle one guy was using at 300 yards was printing 1.5 minute groups consistently with his handloads.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:01:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 6:01:56 PM EDT by Green_Canoe]
You want to talk to the fellows on the the forum associated with Shiloh rifles. They have experts in the field. Mike Venturino even shows up occasionally. You need Mike's book on 'shooting the buffalo rifles'. One of the most informative books of it's kind. IIRC the .45-90 is one of the most popular rifles for 1000 yards with these guys. For the shorter courses the .45-70 and .40-70 Sharps Straight and .40-65 are very popular. The .45-70 is the easiest and least expensive to get into, of course.

One of these days I'm going to treat myself to a Shiloh made Sharps.

Kent
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:35:01 PM EDT
Another really good rifle that has NOT been mentioned is the Ballard Rifle.
They are very accurate.

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:40:37 PM EDT
Shiloh Sharps
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:44:06 PM EDT
If you want to wait for a while, order a Shiloh Sharps. You can get a Long Range Express for around 2 grand.

If you don't want to wait, find a Pedersoli. I have a Pedersoli Heavy Target model, and I love it. It's the nicest NEW rifle I've ever bought. The sights kinda sucked, but even with a Shiloh, you're gonna need a better sight. Soule sights are the ones to get. I found a guy that hand makes them for half of the price of the name brands.

I roll my own black powder loads, and cast my own pills. I can get about MOA out of it easily, and recoil isn't bad at all. Gets lots of attention at the range...

Haven't shot in a match yet, though.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:19:50 PM EDT
Lots of possible choices are available.

Shiloh Sharps has been mentioned as has Pedersoli(I have thier 45/70 rolling block). Pedersoli makes a diverse selection of old time rifles, check thier website www.davide-pedersoli.com/

They shoot 1000 yd BP matches at Camp Perry, a couple of times each summer. A buddy of mine has shot there with his 45/70 and he says that a 45/90 would be better at that range.

On the other hand, he and I have been out to the Quigley match in Montana(7 times) where the longest shot is about 800 yds, the 45/70 seems to be OK there.

Ain't nothing like launching ounce and a quarter bullets with a hefty dose of BP!

Don in Ohio

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:42:00 PM EDT
Dam, its hard enough to see that far & you want to shoot 1000yds with an old fart gun!
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:03:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 5:03:25 AM EDT by billclo]
I wonder what size groups they're getting at 1000 yards? And how do you even see a human target at such ranges, without magnification? Maybe if the guy is standing silouetted on a ridge against sky, or something, but if he's sitting/prone, I don't know if I could even see him at such ranges...
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:08:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought only Faggots and Girlymen who suckled from the teat of their mother too long shot .45/70...whereas well adjusted masculine men reared properly by their fathers, of sound mind body shot either .45-120 or .50-90.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.



Wasn't there a .45-110?

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:30:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought only Faggots and Girlymen who suckled from the teat of their mother too long shot .45/70...whereas well adjusted masculine men reared properly by their fathers, of sound mind body shot either .45-120 or .50-90.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.



So then, which do you shoot?
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:47:12 AM EDT
I'm no expert in the matter, but from what I've seen on the line and in the pits at the VA Blackpowder Championship held at Quantico every April, the rifles on the line tend to be High Walls and the groups shot at 800-1000 yards vary from pretty decent to 'How the heck did they exterminate the buffalo with those things?' Year before last the two guys shooting front stuffers smoked ( no pun intended ) the cartridge rifles -- which makes no sense given that they had to break position, stand up, reload, and crawl back into position...

The Shiloh Sharps rifles are nice ( I have one ) and I believe the wait is now far less than the five years I waited, but I think I'd talk to some BP cartridge rifle shooters to determine what you want. I suspect the .45-90 would be the ticket for long range, but the .45-70 would probably be the right choice for silhouette.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:11:32 AM EDT
I shoot a C Sharps in 40-65 for Black Powder Cartridge Silhoutte matches out to 500meters or 547yds. This is (Minute of Ram) and I have managed to clean ten of these of the rail on more than one occasion. There are a many guys that like the 45-70, and some who pretend to enjoy shooting the 45-90, 45-100 and even 45-110. I can't find enjoyment out of the latter calibers kind of recoil personally. I have not done the Long Range 600-1000 and dont believe that my gun would be appropriate for that range. I know several guys who compete at Raton New Mexico for the National Championships who do well with the 45-70 at the longer ranges. I currently have my rifle for sale as I no longer have the time it takes to cast and load for the Sharps.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:37:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 6:22:04 PM EDT by AeroE]
Pic
How about long range muzzleloaders?

There is a big match at Oak Ridge October 15 and 16. I think they will be shooting 300, 600, and 1000 yards; probably be lots of Whitworth's and Rigby's.

See the Long Range Muzzleloading List for more info.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:35:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 3:35:22 PM EDT by Zippy_The_Wonderdog]

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought only Faggots and Girlymen who suckled from the teat of their mother too long shot .45/70...whereas well adjusted masculine men reared properly by their fathers, of sound mind body shot either .45-120 or .50-90.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.



So then, which do you shoot?



Umm.... .50bmg...



My post was to be taken with the utmost sarcasm. It does seem to me though that if you are going to go this route...go big.

I seem to remember hearing about a .50-120...but could'nt find anything out there as of now.

Is there such an animal?
Top Top