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Posted: 5/2/2001 11:23:01 PM EDT
straight from the mouth of whoopi goldberg, on politically incorrect tonight do we need any more proof that liberals and elitests are commie sympathizers ?
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 11:28:29 PM EDT
Dang, that title sure gets your attention! As to your "liberals and elitists" question, the answer is no. These people are so out of touch with what is actually happening in this world.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 11:30:18 PM EDT
It's not supriseing coming from that worthless POS
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 11:31:03 PM EDT
TYPICAL.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 11:32:31 PM EDT
operator error, Any news?
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 11:50:02 PM EDT
tarantula head.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 11:58:36 PM EDT
LOL-- i like that one steyrgirl
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:16:46 AM EDT
in principal, it isnt. but in practice, its been a disaster. and i liked that one steyrgirl ill have to remember that one.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:34:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: in principal, it isnt. but in practice, its been a disaster.
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Please tell me you are kidding! Have you thought this through? How is the principle (not spelling) that you are no more entitled to the fruits of your mind / labor than the worthless couch potato who sleeps 14 hours a day and plays nintendo? Somehow, the idea that the more productive, capable members of society just have more to offer the State and get no less in return is no principle I could stand to adhere to. Adam
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:37:26 AM EDT
I would like to see her try to explain this to all those murdered by Joe Stalin.or Mao.real communism has never really been tried.It always seems to immediately degenerate into totalitarianism
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 12:51:14 AM EDT
Communism goes against human nature and as a result, is always destined to fail. It was never a good idea. It results in laziness and brings out the worst in human beings. Look at Russia. If communism was such a great idea, why is it not embraced across the world? Why do communist nations resemble dictatorships? Sure, they screw you in the name of "the people", but the end result is the same: you still get screwed. Whoppie in an idiot. She's a hippie, an ex junkie, and an all around moron. Screw her.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:08:37 AM EDT
I bet Whoopie would change her mind if when she leaves the PRK to say AZ the new PR police stop her and ask "Papers please! No sir, you know who I am, I am the actress, Whoopie Goldberg. "No papers!? Take her away!" Dumbas@ sheeple. If it isn't so bad why did people risk thier lives to leave East Germany and Cuba? Never heard about people getting shot, trying to get in did we.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:24:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam White:
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: in principal, it isnt. but in practice, its been a disaster.
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Please tell me you are kidding! Have you thought this through? How is the principle (not spelling) that you are no more entitled to the fruits of your mind / labor than the worthless couch potato who sleeps 14 hours a day and plays nintendo? Somehow, the idea that the more productive, capable members of society just have more to offer the State and get no less in return is no principle I could stand to adhere to. Adam
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Guess this is why "democracy" works best for us humanoids....no?.........[grenade]
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:26:49 AM EDT
These folks have no idea what communism is. They should spend time to live under one and will realize how serious it affects a human soul. They will realize then why so many millions of people try to escape from it. Through the Berlin wall, the fall of the iron curtain, and the exodus from Vietnam and Cuba. Can't wait to see Whoopi have to sweep the street every morning just to do her civic duty.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:38:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: in principal, it isnt. but in practice, its been a disaster.
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I agree. Wasnt it Jesus who told us to get rid of our worldy posessions and help our fellow man? Communist THEORIES include all people working for the mother country, not for the individual. JFK once said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". I've been to Russia and met a good number of people there. Believe me, they are definetely not lazy. Under commie rule, they had to work all day, wait in food lines later, go home and sleep. They didnt know what a homeless person was. They didnt know what crime was either. If Stalin was a maniac, thats a different problem. Hitler hated communism yet he killed many of his own people too. In theory (flame on) Jesus was more a communist than a capitalist. Ready, set, start your flame engines.......NOW!
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 5:24:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 5:37:02 AM EDT
Tim J, AMEN, brother! Thanks for voicing your thoughts. Said what I was thinking, but more succinct! -Troy
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 6:01:01 AM EDT
Tim J, did I say one thing that wasn't true? Read it again.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 6:05:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 6:06:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 6:36:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2001 6:41:19 AM EDT by TimJ]
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 6:37:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 7:16:55 AM EDT
under communism she'll make a good factory worker, 16hr days no breaks. maybe send her to chi-com land for a few months.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 9:34:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 9:40:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2001 9:43:55 AM EDT by imposter]
I'm no Christian scholar, but it is kind of my understanding that taking people's freedom away about whether to be charitable or not defeats the whole purpose. If you act charitably so that it makes you look good or because the tax collector will put you in jail, that is not going to earn you any eternal brownie points. You have to do good things because you want to, not because the state makes you. There must be an opportunity to choose between good and evil. Why you do something is as important as what you do. In other words, you have to do the right thing for the right reasons. Doing the right thing because the state made you does not count. Christianity is a moral philosophy, while communism is a political one. Not only are they not similar, they are directly opposite of eachother. IMHO.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 9:53:41 AM EDT
Communism couldn't even make out of this century. As these countries approach 60-70 years, their economic systems hit the skids big time. The only commies left are those that have allowed some form of capitalism to exist just to keep their collective heads above water. It is just not economically feasable to fund a nation of welfare recipients when incentive and initiative is squashed. Why would you work hard if you get paid the same for being lazy?
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 10:01:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By COMMOGUY: I would like to see her try to explain this to all those murdered by Joe Stalin.or Mao.real communism has never really been tried.It always seems to immediately degenerate into totalitarianism
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Communism doesn't degenerate to totalitarianism, it starts out that way. Communism is force, initiated by the state, to take what belongs to one and give it to another.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 10:02:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: Communism goes against human nature and as a result, is always destined to fail. It was never a good idea. It results in laziness and brings out the worst in human beings. Look at Russia. If communism was such a great idea, why is it not embraced across the world? Why do communist nations resemble dictatorships? Sure, they screw you in the name of "the people", but the end result is the same: you still get screwed. Whoppie in an idiot. She's a hippie, an ex junkie, and an all around moron. Screw her.
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I agree!! If ONEHO thinks communism is so great she can just give me all her money and move to North Korea or China or etc, etc, etc!!! Lynn [uzi] [@:D] [heavy]
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 10:09:43 AM EDT
Communism in theroy is much better than capitalism. Communism has never existed on the face of this earth. If all the people grouped together and worked for the good of the group we would be an enlightened society. The problem comes with the people that say why work when I can get everything for free. It is a lot like the argument for or against guns. The anti-gunner commies are off in fairy tale land where we would all work together and sing and no one would need guns. Nice theroy and it would be great if we could all live that way. In real life, which the pro-gunners are more in touch with, there are bad people. So in the real world communism would never work, because there are not people of a high enough caliber to make it work.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 5:54:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 6:03:09 PM EDT
It's just another "Utopian" scheme dreamed up by off-beat people, who are unable to understand that people don't think or behave in a way that fits their dream-world theory. Any system that MURDERS over 100 million of their OWN people, (NOT killed in war-MURDERED) is not "Not too bad". The ultimate outcome of ANY socialist system, no mater how benign, is a dictatorship. In any system there will be people who want to opt out. If a socialist/communist system can work at all, the decliners MUST be forced into the system. This calls for a political police force which quickly becomes a Secret Police Force, which becomes 100 million dead. Socialism in America is heading down the same road, since as I said, decliners MUST be forced into the system, re: ATF, DEA, EPA. When a government has an envirnomental agency with a SWAT TEAM, the writing is plain to see. The only reason we aren't sliding as fast as the rest of the world, is because it takes time to work around the Constitution. As to sliding, notice how FAST England is turning into a socialist/police state. What ever happened to English fair play and justice?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 3:00:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rickyj: Communism in theroy is much better than capitalism. Communism has never existed on the face of this earth. If all the people grouped together and worked for the good of the group we would be an enlightened society. The problem comes with the people that say why work when I can get everything for free. It is a lot like the argument for or against guns. The anti-gunner commies are off in fairy tale land where we would all work together and sing and no one would need guns. Nice theroy and it would be great if we could all live that way. In real life, which the pro-gunners are more in touch with, there are bad people. So in the real world communism would never work, because there are not people of a high enough caliber to make it work.
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Please reread what critter_FR and myself have written. Communism in theory IS NOT much better than capitalism. Capitalism is about freedom and Communism is about enslavment to the state. Period.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 3:13:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2001 3:12:38 AM EDT by techranger]
In the spirit of communism, why doesn't she share her wealth with the people. we can give her our account numbers and she can direct deposit the money into our accounts. I can easily think ways to spend the residuals from Ghost. My .02...wait isn't it our .02?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 3:48:37 AM EDT
Commies SUCK!
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 7:01:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2001 7:01:51 AM EDT by satcong]
Communism is so great that the son of N. Korean President Kim goes to the west to take his kids to Disenyland. While his people starve
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 10:44:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:10:36 AM EDT
Actually, pure communism does exist, right here in the USA too. Religious sects such as the Amish practice its most purest form. Communism is the principle of "community", with the entire community working for the well being of all and sharing equally. I have not read Marx and Engels so I cannot state what their idea of it is, but I am sure it is close to what these religions practice. These sectarian religions have huge success in their communities and few of them ever leave it, even when they go to universities or jobs outside of it. It is similar to the "village" concept that Hitlery tries to act like she invented, but the intensity and adherence to it in these sects is amazing. Most everyone is legitimately happy and have little desire to possess much beyond what the community allows it to have. They have leaders, which are the Elder people who have the knowledge and experience, but they all look to God as the great leader of their sect. They are cared for and have purpose in life and are not wanting of the basics for life. Simplicity is all they know or even want to know. They dont suffer the maladies our societies suffer such as drug and alcohol abuse, crime, domestic violence and laziness. Weak people are brought along by the stronger people so that they are not left out of the community and fall prey to the moral and physical vices. Unfortunately the governmental communism we have today is nothing but dictatorships and totalitarian governments using the idea of "community" to hide their excesses and enslavement of peoples hearts and minds. Which, amazingly, is the Democratic Party's main platform today also. My moto is, a dead communist is a good communist. I have no tolerance for governmental communism in any form.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:48:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun Toter: Actually, pure communism does exist, right here in the USA too. Religious sects such as the Amish practice its most purest form. Communism is the principle of "community", with the entire community working for the well being of all and sharing equally. I have not read Marx and Engels so I cannot state what their idea of it is, but I am sure it is close to what these religions practice. These sectarian religions have huge success in their communities and few of them ever leave it, even when they go to universities or jobs outside of it. It is similar to the "village" concept that Hitlery tries to act like she invented, but the intensity and adherence to it in these sects is amazing. Most everyone is legitimately happy and have little desire to possess much beyond what the community allows it to have. They have leaders, which are the Elder people who have the knowledge and experience, but they all look to God as the great leader of their sect. They are cared for and have purpose in life and are not wanting of the basics for life. Simplicity is all they know or even want to know. They dont suffer the maladies our societies suffer such as drug and alcohol abuse, crime, domestic violence and laziness. Weak people are brought along by the stronger people so that they are not left out of the community and fall prey to the moral and physical vices. Unfortunately the governmental communism we have today is nothing but dictatorships and totalitarian governments using the idea of "community" to hide their excesses and enslavement of peoples hearts and minds. Which, amazingly, is the Democratic Party's main platform today also. My moto is, a dead communist is a good communist. I have no tolerance for governmental communism in any form.
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actually this is not true. the Penn. dutch amish community had a huge narcotics problem a few years back. i remember because it really caught me off guard to hear it because i had always assumed the above.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:52:14 AM EDT
kill a commie for mommie [chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 12:26:38 PM EDT
INFO ONLY Read this clip and tell me that Democracy in it's purest form is not socialism To be a capitalist, is to have not only a purely personal, but a social STATUS in production. Capital is a collective product, and only by the united action of many members, nay, in the last resort, only by the united action of all members of society, can it be set in motion. Capital is therefore not only personal; it is a social power. When, therefore, capital is converted into common property, into the property of all members of society, personal property is not thereby transformed into social property. It is only the social character of the property that is changed. It loses its class character. Let us now take wage labor. The average price of wage labor is the minimum wage, i.e., that quantum of the means of subsistence which is absolutely requisite to keep the laborer in bare existence as a laborer. What, therefore, the wage laborer appropriates by means of his labor merely suffices to prolong and reproduce a bare existence. We by no means intend to abolish this personal appropriation of the products of labor, an appropriation that is made for the maintenance and reproduction of human life, and that leaves no surplus wherewith to command the labor of others. All that we want to do away with is the miserable character of this appropriation, under which the laborer lives merely to increase capital, and is allowed to live only in so far as the interest of the ruling class requires it. In bourgeois society, living labor is but a means to increase accumulated labor. In communist society, accumulated labor is but a means to widen, to enrich, to promote the existence of the laborer. In bourgeois society, therefore, the past dominates the present; in communist society, the present dominates the past. In bourgeois society, capital is independent and has individuality, while the living person is dependent and has no individuality. And the abolition of this state of things is called by the bourgeois, abolition of individuality and freedom! And rightly so. The abolition of bourgeois individuality, bourgeois independence, and bourgeois freedom is undoubtedly aimed at. By freedom is meant, under the present bourgeois conditions of production, free trade, free selling and buying. But if selling and buying disappears, free selling and buying disappears also. This talk about free selling and buying, and all the other "brave words" of our bourgeois about freedom in general, have a meaning, if any, only in contrast with restricted selling and buying, with the fettered traders of the Middle Ages, but have no meaning when opposed to the communist abolition of buying and selling, or the bourgeois conditions of production, and of the bourgeoisie itself. You are horrified at our intending to do away with private property. But in your existing society, private property is already done away with for nine-tenths of the population; its existence for the few is solely due to its non-existence in the hands of those nine-tenths. You reproach us, therefore, with intending to do away with a form of property, the necessary condition for whose existence is the non-existence of any property for the immense majority of society. Karl Marx and Frederick Engels Manifestoof the Communist Party 1848 [url]http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 12:55:13 PM EDT
didnt think this topic would gain so many responses, and provoke such thought about communism
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 1:01:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam White:
Originally Posted By Rickyj: Communism in theroy is much better than capitalism. Communism has never existed on the face of this earth. If all the people grouped together and worked for the good of the group we would be an enlightened society. The problem comes with the people that say why work when I can get everything for free. It is a lot like the argument for or against guns. The anti-gunner commies are off in fairy tale land where we would all work together and sing and no one would need guns. Nice theroy and it would be great if we could all live that way. In real life, which the pro-gunners are more in touch with, there are bad people. So in the real world communism would never work, because there are not people of a high enough caliber to make it work.
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Please reread what critter_FR and myself have written. Communism in theory IS NOT much better than capitalism. Capitalism is about freedom and Communism is about enslavment to the state. Period.
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Communism is about working together as a team. It is about working together and working hard because it is the right thing to do. Gun Toter pointed out the communes that do exist and these are far better societies than the average capitalist society. When the government enslaves the population that would no longer be be communism. Capitalism does offer freedom compared to the so called "communist" states that exist today. In a true communist society we would use our freedom to help each other, not out of force, but because it is the right thing to do. A true communist state would be a better place to live than any other. It is just that in the real world capitalism works better because people are selfish, lazy, or something else that would not work well with communism.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 1:17:45 PM EDT
"i am not sure communism is such a bad thing"
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Please don't post a title like that again...my blood pressure shot up and I about died. I am now in a coma.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 1:49:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rickyj:
Originally Posted By Adam White:
Originally Posted By Rickyj: Communism in theroy is much better than capitalism. Communism has never existed on the face of this earth. If all the people grouped together and worked for the good of the group we would be an enlightened society. The problem comes with the people that say why work when I can get everything for free. It is a lot like the argument for or against guns. The anti-gunner commies are off in fairy tale land where we would all work together and sing and no one would need guns. Nice theroy and it would be great if we could all live that way. In real life, which the pro-gunners are more in touch with, there are bad people. So in the real world communism would never work, because there are not people of a high enough caliber to make it work.
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Please reread what critter_FR and myself have written. Communism in theory IS NOT much better than capitalism. Capitalism is about freedom and Communism is about enslavment to the state. Period.
View Quote
Communism is about working together as a team. It is about working together and working hard because it is the right thing to do. Gun Toter pointed out the communes that do exist and these are far better societies than the average capitalist society. When the government enslaves the population that would no longer be be communism. Capitalism does offer freedom compared to the so called "communist" states that exist today. In a true communist society we would use our freedom to help each other, not out of force, but because it is the right thing to do. A true communist state would be a better place to live than any other. It is just that in the real world capitalism works better because people are selfish, lazy, or something else that would not work well with communism.
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what gun toter posted was innacurate. communism does not work. where are the hippie communes of the 60s? even they failed and that was on a micro scale. it doesn't work and it won't work because it is flawed from conception.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 2:02:35 PM EDT
steyrgirl; where are the gun owning societies that are free of crime? It has never happened and never will. Just because it has not happened and probably never will does not mean that the conception is flawed. The conception of an armed society is one that does not have violence because everyone is protected. This is obviously not the case but we should not discount the idea because it does not match reality.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:29:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 7:55:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rickyj: steyrgirl; where are the gun owning societies that are free of crime? It has never happened and never will. Just because it has not happened and probably never will does not mean that the conception is flawed. The conception of an armed society is one that does not have violence because everyone is protected. This is obviously not the case but we should not discount the idea because it does not match reality.
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ricky, communism is flawed from conception because it lacks safeguards. you know like constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. even with those we have difficulty maintaining freedom. without them communism becomes a totalitarian dictatorship overnight.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 8:26:17 PM EDT
Troy, eliminate is too strong of a word, I should have said reduced. What I mean is that there are many murders, robberies, etc. that take place with guns. This is not a good reason to say that gun ownership is evil. The same is with communism, many dictators have used "communism" in an evil way, this does not make communism evil. steyrgirl, a communist society could have a constitution also. There is no reason that a communist society could not have the same rights as we enjoy. I think we are arguing different types of government, republic as opposed to dictatorships. Given those choices I would of course chose the republic. But I believe that communism is more of an economic term like capitalism. A communism that was formed because the people wanted it to form would be a better society. Obviously this will not happen any time soon because there are many people that dislike the idea, so it is a theoretical ideal. I think a communist republic would be better than a capitalist republic, but obviously a republic would be better than any kind of dictatorship.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 8:37:13 PM EDT
ok ricky, let's simplify things. you prefer a communist country. i prefer the one we have now. you can move to one. i cannot, this is the last one in the world. if you or anyone else tries to change my country to a communist country i will have to shoot you. and i really don't want to have to do that. i hear north korea is nice this time of year.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 8:53:07 PM EDT
When did I say that I preferred a communist society? I said I thought that it would be a better society. I think that a society that shot all criminals on sight would be better than ours as well. However I would not prefer this society because it does not work in the real world, innocent people are shot and morally wrong laws are written. However this does make me wonder, if 90 percent of the United States voted to institute communism would you agree? Should the country follow the will of the people, or follow the 10 percent who disagree?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 8:57:41 PM EDT
no because that would require changing the constitution. this is not a democracy, it is a democratic republic. if 99% of the people wanted communism and i was the only one who didn't, too frickin' bad. kill me. cause you're gonna have to eventually.
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