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Posted: 1/7/2012 3:53:01 PM EDT
got to thinking today. i wonder what the average life expectancy of a rifle at Parris Island is? how many cycles will it make it through before it is basically junk? when i got there, our platoon was the first in that company to get m16a4s. the previous cycle still has a2s. most of the rifles in my platoon with brand new out of the box, mine however wasnt. it looked like it has been through about 1 cycle. by the end of the 13 weeks, almost all the rifles were pretty fucked up looking, even the brand new ones. scratches, nicks, dings, finish worn off the barrel by going from order arms to port arms. i saw rifles that has the forward assist busted off, dust cover broken, front site base broken, grips cracked. you name it, it probably broke someone on someones rifle. mine even left quite a bit worse than when i got it, and i babied that rifle. sometimes it just cant be helped though.

so, anyone know how long a rifle is supposed to make it at boot camp?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:01:06 PM EDT
Fo eva!
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:05:08 PM EDT
How do you baby a rifle when you have rifle PT, bayonet courses, assault courses, obstacle courses, in and out of vehicles and helicopters and every other hard use training?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:05:55 PM EDT
Cleaning them constantly with GI rods isn't really good for the bore
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:07:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 4:11:30 PM EDT by Assault-Rifle-City]
Fuck if I know, but the ones at Benning were very well used.

Still shot pretty damn strait though.

ETA: OSUT is what convinced me to buy my own AR. I had one before and Olympic, that I wasn't real fond of.

But seeing the abuse these rifles could take and still continue to function, quite amazing.

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:07:32 PM EDT
I had an A1 that if I slapped it too hard during manual of arms I'd knock the hand guards off, which was good because that meant I was "Hard Core Motivated!"
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:08:56 PM EDT
babied is probably a poor choice of words. instead of writing tons of letters home, i cleaned my rifle on "free time". it wasnt dropped to the concrete when stacking the rifles if we had to go somewhere without them. i made sure i didnt fuck up bad enough where my rifle would get thrown across the squadbay. i took care of it better than most. make sense now?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:09:10 PM EDT
My M16 at Ft Knox in 1989 was VERY well worn. Still ran fine.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:11:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By piccolo:
Cleaning them constantly with GI rods isn't really good for the bore


we all had cleaning rods, but one day at the range, an ammo can was found out in the middle of nowhere, with no one watching it. gear adrift is a gift. inside was a bunch of earpro and several boresnakes. our platoon divided them up for cleaning at night.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 4:12:31 PM EDT
My issued M16A1 at Ft Jennings in '81 was pretty rough.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:56:53 PM EDT
Can we get an armorer in here. please? I want to know the answer to this quesionn, as well.

The weapon I was issued was well worn and used, as were all of the weapons in my company. 1983, A1 issue, I'm betting they were used from the late 60's. I know for a fact the armorer worked his but off. A specialist that the DI's treated very well. The shit we put those weapons through was incredible. The DI's made it a point to have us abuse them to build confidence in the platform (unless you dropped one, of course; which would lead to a three day hell for you). I had only a single malfunction the entire range cycle. Naturally, it was during qualification. Those slap drills worked and I still Q'd expert on the pop up range. I had made the decision to not fire at a 300 meter target to have an extra round at shorter ranges, and fortunately, the mal occurred on a 300 meter target. No harm, no foul.

Having seen those weapons, they'd been there through an estimated 15 years of Basic, at 5 cycles a year = 75 cycles +/- 15% for not being issued during certain cycles due to over stock or red line issues. Now, how many times had they been worked on or rebuilt? We need an armorer in here to tell us.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:01:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By piccolo:
Cleaning them constantly with GI rods isn't really good for the bore


After cleaning my brand new A1 for many weeks sitting on my foot locker and using the G1 rods, I was still able to hit that torso target 9 out of 10 times at 500 yards.


Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:02:18 PM EDT
Fort Benning, 1991. We were using M16A1's for BRM. When we passed the initial BRM phase and moved into advanced marksmanship, we were issued newer A2's. Those A1's had seen better days and were probably around for 10+ years. But assuming you could get the mags to feed properly they would hit what you aimed at.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:06:56 PM EDT
Worked with a fellow who told me his M-16 in Marine boot camp was silver.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:09:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 7:11:01 PM EDT by Freakzilla]
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:10:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maj_A_Hole:
Fort Benning, 1991. We were using M16A1's for BRM. When we passed the initial BRM phase and moved into advanced marksmanship, we were issued newer A2's. Those A1's had seen better days and were probably around for 10+ years. But assuming you could get the mags to feed properly they would hit what you aimed at.


+1

Mags are the another question. How many cycles do they go through?
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:12:33 PM EDT
I think I got a near new A2 at PI. No wear or excessive rattling that I remember from it. Even had the new kevlars helmets at PI if I remember corectly. Get to the fleet and I get a worn out A1 and steel pot. I much preferred the steel pot and A2..
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:15:45 PM EDT
MCRD Pendleton, our M-16A2's where OLD. My boot camp M-16 was a 6 digit serial number, my fleet rifle was 7 digit.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:18:50 PM EDT
A2 at MCRD was light gray aluminum finish ( nothing left ), lower and upper had a gap that I could see through, and they wobbled a good mm or two. I still could shoot "sharpshooter" not expert at the qual range. Now if only I could clean out that spot in the bore on the top near the muzzle.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:20:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 7:21:13 PM EDT by Madcap72]

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
A2 at MCRD was light gray aluminum finish ( nothing left ), lower and upper had a gap that I could see through, and they wobbled a good mm or two. I still could shoot "sharpshooter" not expert at the qual range. Now if only I could clean out that spot in the bore on the top near the muzzle.

I hate that damn black spot! My rifle had it too!
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:41:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Madcap72:

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
A2 at MCRD was light gray aluminum finish ( nothing left ), lower and upper had a gap that I could see through, and they wobbled a good mm or two. I still could shoot "sharpshooter" not expert at the qual range. Now if only I could clean out that spot in the bore on the top near the muzzle.

I hate that damn black spot! My rifle had it too!


funny...my semi AR has that spot too...
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:53:43 PM EDT
2002 at Ft. Leonard Wood my M16-A2 was a rattling bastard, half silver from the finish being worn off, and shot like a dream. It had clearly been through dozens of cycles.

Beat to all hell, but still worked. That is where I learned to respect the AR platform.



I am curious to hear from someone with direct knowledge.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:58:20 PM EDT
LOL!!!

Our series was one of the first to get A2's, and some of the platoons graduating were turning in A1's.
Previous to Bootcamp I had never figured a plastic rifle would put up with getting thrown 30yds, to slide accrossed a grinder, and still function.
Our second hat was a raging loon and liked to kick rifles out from recruits hands while we were at order arms, then bend the shit out of 'em for losing thier rifle or breaking ranks.
I figure two cycles like ours would be the limit.


Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:10:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RAINBOW6:
Worked with a fellow who told me his M-16 in Marine boot camp was silver.


Guy I used to work for said the same thing.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:15:01 PM EDT
i went in mid 09..my lower was old as shit...im guessing they replaced the A2 upper as it was pretty new and still had most of the finish
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:16:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hd_pancho:
My M16 at Ft Knox in 1989 was VERY well worn. Still ran fine.


I did basic in 1990 at Fort Knox and my M16A1 was a Hydra-Matic with a serial number that dated to 1969 or 1970.

Yes, I still remember the number.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:18:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By big_dipper:
Originally Posted By RAINBOW6:
Worked with a fellow who told me his M-16 in Marine boot camp was silver.


Guy I used to work for said the same thing.

They were refinished with dry film lubricant which when buffed, was quite bright.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:26:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By big_dipper:
Originally Posted By RAINBOW6:
Worked with a fellow who told me his M-16 in Marine boot camp was silver.


Guy I used to work for said the same thing.

They were refinished with dry film lubricant which when buffed, was quite bright.

Or, you know simple green and green scratch pads.



Most of the silver guns in the Corps are from bare aluminum.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:24:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 9:26:15 PM EDT by Alembic]
The last year I pushed in '09, of the 210 A2s (All FN) in our company, only two of them were deadlined, and they were all beat. Park and annodizing was silver, etc.

Qualified no less than 96% first-time GOs in three cycles. Really all that matters, right?

Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:48:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maj_A_Hole:
Fort Benning, 1991. We were using M16A1's for BRM. When we passed the initial BRM phase and moved into advanced marksmanship, we were issued newer A2's. Those A1's had seen better days and were probably around for 10+ years. But assuming you could get the mags to feed properly they would hit what you aimed at.


Same here - Benning 1991.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 9:57:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:01:54 PM EDT
I'm surprised they last as long as they do. We had a Drill Sergeant who was fond of throwing rifles at the floor. Our rifles were basically new when I went through, and they looked pretty rough by the end due to general handling and some chaotic smoke sessions.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 10:50:22 PM EDT
that lower looks awesome. yea , they last way longer then most think.
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