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Posted: 1/3/2003 3:17:51 PM EST
Jesus i get fine. but God seems to spend a lot of time in the old testement being petty and cruel as an example God makes Saul "twist off" and almost kill David. or am i reading this wrong? 1 Samuel 18 :: New American Standard Bible (10)Now it came about on the next day that (11) an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and (12) he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand,
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 3:32:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By 308wood: Jesus i get fine. but God seems to spend a lot of time in the old testement being petty and cruel as an example God makes Saul "twist off" and almost kill David. or am i reading this wrong? 1 Samuel 18 :: New American Standard Bible (10)Now it came about on the next day that (11) an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and (12) he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand,
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My version says: (10)The very next day, in fact, a tormenting spirit from God overwhelmed Saul, and he began to rave like a madman. David began to play the harp, as he did whenever this happened. But Saul, who had a spear in his hand, (11)suddenly hurled it at David, intending to pin him to the wall. But David jumped aside and escaped. This happened another time, too, (12) for Saul was afraid of him, and he was jealous because the Lord had left him and was now with David. (New Living Translation) The important word is "almost." When taken in context, realize that God was punishing Saul for his sins earlier (see 1 Samuel chapter 15--Saul continously disobeys God, so God removed His favor from Saul and blessed David as Saul's successor). God instead protected David by giving him help, in the form of Jonathan, Saul's son. Remember that there is a price to pay for sin; in the New Testament and after, Jesus paid that price. In the OT, however, God extracted that price from those who sinned and were unrepentant, like Saul was. Saul was paying the price for his vanity, jealousy and disobedience; he brought these spirits upon himself.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 3:46:26 PM EST
i agree, God was punishing Saul in that the Spirit came "from God". Saul was not a nice guy but it seems God torments him and makes him a lot worse. he sends "tormenting spirits" and hardens Saul's heart toward David. what does this say about the nature of God.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:07:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:20:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Originally Posted By 308wood: what does this say about the nature of God.
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Don't fuck with him!
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What he said!
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:46:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 5:04:17 PM EST by Planerench]
Before Christ came we see God's prominent atribute, Holyness. Christ came to accept our fate as sinners to reconcile us to God. Thus, we see His mercy. The evil spirit in Samuel is from God but not necessarily OF God. Satan is capable of killing everything on Earth (his enemy's creation) and desires to do so if allowed, especially man (who is made in God's image). God gives Satan permission to "Go Medival" on those in need of punishment. Job is an example of Satan asking to hurt a man. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:24:16 PM EST
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By ilikelegs: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By 308wood: what does this say about the nature of God. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't fuck with him! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What he said!
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I will third that!!! Don't mess with Him!
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:29:22 PM EST
God is God. Who are we to second guess anything He does? Eddie
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:30:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Planerench: Before Christ came we see God's prominent atribute, Holyness. Christ came to accept our fate as sinners to reconcile us to God. Thus, we see His mercy. The evil spirit in Samuel is from God but not necessarily OF God. Satan is capable of killing everything on Earth (his enemy's creation) and desires to do so if allowed, especially man (who is made in God's image). God gives Satan permission to "Go Medival" on those in need of punishment. Job is an example of Satan asking to hurt a man. Planerench out.
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I hadn't thought of it quite that way, but it makes sense--God putting a little slack in Satan's leash to go after Saul as payback. God is not mean or cruel, simply judgemental--do as He says, or pay the price! Of course, after Jesus' sacrifice, that price is paid for us. Cool. And, Merry Christmas!
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:38:50 PM EST
Getting back to why God allowed Saul to wigg out and fling a spear at David, everything happens for a reason. Perhaps this was one way of telling David that Saul could not be trusted and to never turn your back on him. Apparently, it worked. David never did trust Saul again, no matter what Saul said or did.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 7:36:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 7:44:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Getting back to why God allowed Saul to wigg out and fling a spear at David, everything happens for a reason. Perhaps this was one way of telling David that Saul could not be trusted and to never turn your back on him. Apparently, it worked. David never did trust Saul again, no matter what Saul said or did.
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Rarely does God use a lesson to teach man to trust in man. It would have been for David to learn to put his faith in God. Having a King and an Army after you would have made a big impression on you at the time.
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What gave you the impression I think it had anything to do with "trusting" in man? All I'm saying is that a side benefit of Saul's internal turmoil (caused by his own sin) just may have been a "heads-up" from God to David. Remember, this was pretty early in the game for David. Saul wouldn't be chasing him around the country for quite awhile.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:03:44 PM EST
You got a way with words, legs. [whacko] [:D]
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