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Posted: 10/9/2005 4:29:38 AM EDT
please read the whole post before you reply.

How many of you don hearing protection when (possibly) confronting a threat in your house, a bump in the night, a strange feeling that something is not right?

how many of you have fired your weapon of choice inside an enclosed space like a bedroom size space? just once, that's all that it would take to show you how incapasitating and disorientating that loud of a noise can be, that and you would have just lost a percentage of your hearing, possibly forever.

especially if your a bit older, your elastic tissue in your ear is not as adept to recovery as if you were young.

there are several manufacturers that make hearing protection that has the built-in microphones that allow you to hear almost as well as nothing on ears at all while still protecting your hearing.

how many of us spend hundreds,if not thousands of dollars on our weapons with gadgets and do-dads illuminating and pointing and extra "cool" factor hanging all over it to "protect" ourselves but we spend pecious little actually "protecting" ourselves. and while we're on the subject how many would don a protective vest to guard against the likly event that your intruder actually gets off the first shot and hits you, thus rendering your mulit-thousand dollar zombie blaster and you, totally out of the game.

it only takes once, it ain't like paint ball or air soft, theres no do-overs, no next game next week. you get one shot at it when it comes to home invasion/buglary. are you just going to throw your cards to the wind and hope for a royal flush to land face up?

I think we all (myself included) act like children who want the fastest go cart but have little consideration for helmet, brakes and roll cage, sure you may have skill, but stuff happens, and your not the only one competeing for the prize.

in a home invasion/ burglary there is another player in the game who thinks differently acts irrationaly and wants to defeat you if discovered as well as escape.

but don't let that last point over-ride the whole post.

my point is how effective will you be at protecting your family if you yourself become incapasitated or disorientated and the bad guy gets the upper hand, what if there's two bad guys? will you have the reaction time after being stunned by your .357 muzzle blast inside your bedroom when the second drug crazed zombie comes in?

I know, we all know zombies are cowards and will run at the meir sight if an ubbercool, stainless, pacmayer gripped, crimson trace laser equipped,ultra cleaned and lubed slicked up zombie blaster. and if that's what your going to base your family's life on more power to you brother.

but as the leader of your family and protector, provider, and guiding influence for your children, don't you think it would be worth your small investment to protect yourself with tools that actually may keep you around "HEALTHY" to be that person?

sorry for the rant, but I couldn't sleep, and I thought this would be a worth while subjct to post.

thanks for reading .
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:45:06 AM EDT
Well, it becomes a matter of practicality.


I could don eye protection, a bullet resistant vest, Peltor Comtacs, a helmet, etc... but how much time and thinking ability will I have at O-dark thirty?


Certainly it's good idea and worth thinking about
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:48:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 4:49:11 AM EDT by Hoppy]
Adrenalin will make the noise go away. The hearing damage will still be there, but you won't be aware of the sound at all.

Not really an issue, unless you expect this to happen a lot.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:59:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:04:54 AM EDT
One word, SURPRESSORS.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:06:36 AM EDT
Good post. This has also been something I have been considering lately.

Having lost my hearing in one ear due to a viral infection, I'm super paranoid now about protecting my one good ear. Been looking into getting a set of electronic/amplified muffs for the top drawer of my nightstand, along with my homedefense pistol.

EPOCH

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:18:30 AM EDT
Having been on the receiving end of an indoor gunshot I can tell you for a fact you dont hear much more than a pop. There's alot more important stuff going on for your brain to pick up. If you plan on regularly shooting folks inside buy a can.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:55:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 5:55:50 AM EDT by fizassist]

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Having been on the receiving end of an indoor gunshot I can tell you for a fact you dont hear much more than a pop. There's alot more important stuff going on for your brain to pick up. If you plan on regularly shooting folks insideleaving time to "arrange" the scene before calling the police buy a can.





I use a SWR GS9-K2 on a Glock 19. It's not as "quiet" with +P gold dots as it is with Special K, but it's better than not having a can.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:35:20 AM EDT
Not all of us live in states that allow cans

I shot my 45 outside yesterday without hearing protection. 1 shot and my right ear is still ringing, I hope I never have to shoot inside.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:45:54 AM EDT
What is more important to you .... your hearing or your / the life of a loved one?

That being asked, when SHTF, you throw practicality and reason outside the door. You just have to do what you have to do..... hope that you can "perform" .... and pray that what they say is true (that in extreme situations, your mind will block out the shock of an ear shattering noise).
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:50:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Adrenalin will make the noise go away. The hearing damage will still be there, but you won't be aware of the sound at all.

Not really an issue, unless you expect this to happen a lot.



+1

I've talked to L.E.O.'s that have been involved in gun fights. They hear the bad guy's shots but don't recognize them as gunfire. They have said, it sounds like light bulbs breaking. They almost never hear they're own rounds.

I shot a .38spl. inside one time and it actually hurt. The problem was, I was expecting the sound.

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:34:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
What is more important to you .... your hearing or your / the life of a loved one?

That being asked, when SHTF, you throw practicality and reason outside the door. You just have to do what you have to do..... hope that you can "perform" .... and pray that what they say is true (that in extreme situations, your mind will block out the shock of an ear shattering noise).



It may also be a little hard to defend a shooting where you had time to apply hearing protection before the fact.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:06:06 AM EDT
I've never given consideration to hearing protection in a defensive situation, but thought has gone into keeping noise down in the setup of the guns I'd expect to use.

No brakes. No hiders. Bare muzzle. Matter of fact, I utterly despise loud-ass brakes and don't have one on anything.

"quieter" calibers.. .45ACP vs. .357Mag for example.

Screw muffs though.. They just complicate things. Even the amped muffs will change perception of sound to one degree or another.

A can would be nice and all, but this is NJ.. We can get arrested for filing the serials off a rubber band gun.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:10:56 AM EDT
Those of you saying 'screw muffs' have never tried Sordin Supreme Pros.

That said, my HD weapon is suppressed. That's SUPPRESSED, not SURPRESSED.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:11:49 AM EDT
Scream when you shoot a perp. It will scare the hell out of them while releasing your own fear (and it keeps your ears from popping by opening the canals between your ears, nose and throat.)
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:26:54 PM EDT
I keep my Pro Ears electronic muffs with my glasses next to my nightstand pistol. I also use my muffs when hunting as I can turn them up and hear better than without them.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:41:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 12:47:20 PM EDT by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By stormwalker:


my point is how effective will you be at protecting your family if you yourself become incapasitated or disorientated and the bad guy gets the upper hand, what if there's two bad guys? will you have the reaction time after being stunned by your .357 muzzle blast inside your bedroom when the second drug crazed zombie comes in?




I have, under stress, emptied a .357 Sig Glock inside a house before (don't ask). You barely hear it, and neither the sound nor the flash affect you. Adrenaline takes care of this problem for you.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:42:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 12:45:44 PM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By ikor:
While this is a consideration, there are, in fact, many, many well documented cases of citizens, LEOs and military troops firing rifles, shotguns or handguns in enclosed spaces...sometimes within inches of one another...with no lasting ill effects. I know at least three guys who have fired handguns from inside their vehicles in real shootings...one without rolling down any windows...with no ill effects. In addition, there is the issue of being able to hear what is happening before any shots are fired, which is at least as important as being able to hear for a few hours afterward.


Well, I've been told by an expert audioligist that hearing damage is gradual and cummulative, ie you don't notice the damage and that is never fully recovers over and get worse over a period of time. From what I understand the little hair-like thingies in the ear die away, and of course your hearing is lessened.

--------------------------

stormwalker: It would probably depend on your occupation, ie an infantry soldier, or a common ordinary civilian. For the civilians it shouldn't happen too often that you are involved in a shootout in your home, most of them happen in the dark where those miscreants often dwel, and you may have have time to don your regular hearing protection.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:16:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Well, it becomes a matter of practicality.


I could don eye protection, a bullet resistant vest, Peltor Comtacs, a helmet, etc... but how much time and thinking ability will I have at O-dark thirty?


Certainly it's good idea and worth thinking about




Yeah, but think about the look on the intruder's face when he sees you:


"Oh shit! I done picked da wrong house to steal from!"
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:27:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:
Those of you saying 'screw muffs' have never tried Sordin Supreme Pros.

That said, my HD weapon is suppressed. That's SUPPRESSED, not SURPRESSED.



And I bet any burglar is gonna be SURPRISED!!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:32:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
What is more important to you .... your hearing or your / the life of a loved one?

That being asked, when SHTF, you throw practicality and reason outside the door. You just have to do what you have to do..... hope that you can "perform" .... and pray that what they say is true (that in extreme situations, your mind will block out the shock of an ear shattering noise).



It may also be a little hard to defend a shooting where you had time to apply hearing protection before the fact.




Yes, and you may have the same problem if you had time to put clothes on first, or round up your family in the master bedroom, or grab another magazine, or.....
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:34:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By stormwalker:


my point is how effective will you be at protecting your family if you yourself become incapasitated or disorientated and the bad guy gets the upper hand, what if there's two bad guys? will you have the reaction time after being stunned by your .357 muzzle blast inside your bedroom when the second drug crazed zombie comes in?




I have, under stress, emptied a .357 Sig Glock inside a house before (don't ask). You barely hear it, and neither the sound nor the flash affect you. Adrenaline takes care of this problem for you.





Yeah right! Spill it.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:34:34 PM EDT
Whaddya say? Huh?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 2:22:07 PM EDT
Gunfire isn't that loud, not like the movies. The reason for ear protection at the range is because it's REPEATED gunfire from multiple weapons. In a home invasion, it's usually no more than two guns firing.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 3:57:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
Gunfire isn't that loud, not like the movies. The reason for ear protection at the range is because it's REPEATED gunfire from multiple weapons. In a home invasion, it's usually no more than two guns firing.





I'm sorry, but I've never heard gunfire in the movies that was as loud as the real thing. I think OSHA would have something to say about 160 dB impulse noise in a movie theater. Real gunfire right next to you doesn't sound as loud because it overloads your hearing.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:03:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
Gunfire isn't that loud, not like the movies. The reason for ear protection at the range is because it's REPEATED gunfire from multiple weapons. In a home invasion, it's usually no more than two guns firing.





I'm sorry, but I've never heard gunfire in the movies that was as loud as the real thing. I think OSHA would have something to say about 160 dB impulse noise in a movie theater. Real gunfire right next to you doesn't sound as loud because it overloads your hearing.



Yeah +1. That's one of the things in movies that pisses me off. People can unload all kinds of weapons indoors with NO affect on their hearing at all.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:11:40 PM EDT
Several months ago, I was out walking through the woods in the very early morning hours (0230). A bear stood up in front of me within fifteen feet, I could have tossed either waste material(s) or lead, luckily, I chose the latter.
I did not think / contemplate of the noise factor at the time, nor do I even remember such at this time. Yes, obviously this was in an outside environment, but my ears were ringing for a full day afterwards. Since he was nearly triple my weight, I shall be content with the slight bit of hearing loss and will call it 'even'.

I have fired a few rounds inside a closed dwelling without hearing protection, it is NOT something I would readily do again. When push comes to shove, action first, reaction / consequences afterwards.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:29:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist: I'm sorry, but I've never heard gunfire in the movies that was as loud as the real thing. I think OSHA would have something to say about 160 dB impulse noise in a movie theater. Real gunfire right next to you doesn't sound as loud because it overloads your hearing.
How come we don't have a wave of gunfire-related deafness in inner city residents and emergency responders? How come soldiers aren't incapacitated by their own weapons? A few shots in an urban gunfight aren't going to hurt you unless a shot goes off right next to your ear.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:50:23 PM EDT
I'll risk my hearing for my life. I would not choose to confront a threat with hearing protection. I tried a Walker Game Ear, and I hated it.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:52:06 PM EDT
I tried stormwalker but they scoffed at the thought.

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 4:57:21 PM EDT
I have a serious case of tinnitus. It sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wear hearing when possible, but in a life or death
conflict...who cares, open fire.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:00:11 PM EDT
Apparently the military now issues a pair of earplugs for "pulse noises". These things work pretty good so far, I can carry on a conversation without the other person having to yell. I havent done much testing with them so far tho.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:58:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
Gunfire isn't that loud, not like the movies. The reason for ear protection at the range is because it's REPEATED gunfire from multiple weapons. In a home invasion, it's usually no more than two guns firing.




I've heard gun fire inside a room. I've never heard a movie replicate that noise. It's LOUD!
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:32:32 PM EDT
If you have time to don eye and/or ear protection, then it's not a crisis.

Imagine explaining in court that, in a "crisis" you took the time to put your muffs on before you killed the intruder... seeya in prison.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:43:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Adrenalin will make the noise go away. The hearing damage will still be there, but you won't be aware of the sound at all.

Not really an issue, unless you expect this to happen a lot.


yep shot a really nasty racoon under a floor while prone at about 3 feet Glock 22 with 135gr cor bons barely heard a little pop pop as it charged me , but I heard the brass jingle on the ground all in all weird experence
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 6:43:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By fizassist: I'm sorry, but I've never heard gunfire in the movies that was as loud as the real thing. I think OSHA would have something to say about 160 dB impulse noise in a movie theater. Real gunfire right next to you doesn't sound as loud because it overloads your hearing.
How come we don't have a wave of gunfire-related deafness in inner city residents and emergency responders? How come soldiers aren't incapacitated by their own weapons? A few shots in an urban gunfight aren't going to hurt you unless a shot goes off right next to your ear.



I'm not sure what your questions have to do with what you quoted, but here goes:

OSHA says impulse noise above 140 dB is demonstrated to cause measurable hearing loss (most pistols/rifles are >= 160 dB, 100 times more intense). Just because you can hear "ok" afterward doesn't mean it didn't do damage. I've fired 9mm indoors with no hearing protection, and I didn't hear the reports at all. You can bet your ass that I received permanent hearing degradation as a result, though. I can still hear "ok", but I also can't compare to my hearing before the incident.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:04:54 PM EDT
Firearms, especially short rifles, magnum pistols and other obscenely loud weapons, can cause serious hearing loss very quickly.

Handle the situation and live with it. I would definitely consider a KFH or suppressor on a home defense weapon though. You could probably wire a cell phone to some comtacs--that way you have hearing protection, noise amplification AND 911 on the line. Watch what you say though.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:10:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Model_One:
If you have time to don eye and/or ear protection, then it's not a crisis.

Imagine explaining in court that, in a "crisis" you took the time to put your muffs on before you killed the intruder... seeya in prison.



Your balls hurt. By that rationale, you're not justified in shooting anyone in your house unless you awaken to find them at the foot of your bed.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:20:37 PM EDT
Get some Peltors. When asked, say "I wanted the amplification so I could hear better."
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:30:06 PM EDT
Having repeatedly shot my .300 Win Mag at various critters without ear protection, I can guarantee that adrenaline will take care of the sound for you. I don't remember hearing any of the shots, and I don't remember having any loss of hearing ability afterwards.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:38:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Get some Peltors. When asked, say "I wanted the amplification so I could hear better."



I don't understand...why is anybody even worried what the cops think? You can take the ears off as quickly as you can put them on, and you shouldn't be saying shit to anybody before you see a lawyer.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:41:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By limaxray:
Having repeatedly shot my .300 Win Mag at various critters without ear protection, I can guarantee that adrenaline will take care of the sound for you. I don't remember hearing any of the shots, and I don't remember having any loss of hearing ability afterwards.



But you did have the hearing loss.

I can hear the ringing/gunfire when I shoot game, 90% of the time. I try to use muffs when I can.

I did expereince 20 rounds of .375 H&H/.375 Weatherby fired with the muzzle just out the window. Cant remember hearing them. I do have a slight ringing in my ears though, all the time.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:42:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By limaxray:
Having repeatedly shot my .300 Win Mag at various critters without ear protection, I can guarantee that adrenaline will take care of the sound for you. I don't remember hearing any of the shots, and I don't remember having any loss of hearing ability afterwards.



Hearing loss is tricky. Unless you had hearing tests before and after each incident, you can't be sure. It's not like eyesight; I can tell easily if I'm having trouble reading road signs that I can usually see (or my computer monitor, or whatever). With hearing, we don't have such easy metrics. Nobody can say they haven't lost hearing unless they've taken an objective test. That's why it's generally hell trying to convince somebody that they need a hearing aid.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:45:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist: I'm not sure what your questions have to do with what you quoted, but here goes: OSHA says impulse noise above 140 dB is demonstrated to cause measurable hearing loss (most pistols/rifles are >= 160 dB, 100 times more intense). Just because you can hear "ok" afterward doesn't mean it didn't do damage. I've fired 9mm indoors with no hearing protection, and I didn't hear the reports at all. You can bet your ass that I received permanent hearing degradation as a result, though. I can still hear "ok", but I also can't compare to my hearing before the incident.
Then again, I might just be going deaf slowly.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:47:43 PM EDT
I have a carrier with gi style plugs [christmas tree] on each of my keychains. I have learned how to insert them securely and quickly, with one hand, from riding a motorcycle [no helmet state, wind noise is deafening] Most anywhere in the house I have at least one set of plugs.

A while back, when I grabbed my SG thinking I might have to kill a dog, I grabbed plugs without thinking, too. Afterward, with no shots fired, I walked around most of the rest of the day with plugs in, kinda by accident until a girl asked me about them..
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:48:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eli75:
Not all of us live in states that allow cans

I shot my 45 outside yesterday without hearing protection. 1 shot and my right ear is still ringing, I hope I never have to shoot inside.



one word...
MOVE!
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:51:52 PM EDT
This is one of the reasons that I use my USC for home defense. It is a very quite gun.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:53:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Get some Peltors. When asked, say "I wanted the amplification so I could hear better."



I don't understand...why is anybody even worried what the cops think? You can take the ears off as quickly as you can put them on, and you shouldn't be saying shit to anybody before you see a lawyer.




For the same reason this subject started in the first place. It's just a "what if" drill.

Myself, I have never considered eye and ear protection a part of defensive shooting concerns.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:58:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:

Your balls hurt. By that rationale, you're not justified in shooting anyone in your house unless you awaken to find them at the foot of your bed.




Pretty much.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 4:50:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By limaxray:
Having repeatedly shot my .300 Win Mag at various critters without ear protection, I can guarantee that adrenaline will take care of the sound for you. I don't remember hearing any of the shots, and I don't remember having any loss of hearing ability afterwards.



Hearing loss is tricky. Unless you had hearing tests before and after each incident, you can't be sure. It's not like eyesight; I can tell easily if I'm having trouble reading road signs that I can usually see (or my computer monitor, or whatever). With hearing, we don't have such easy metrics. Nobody can say they haven't lost hearing unless they've taken an objective test. That's why it's generally hell trying to convince somebody that they need a hearing aid.



Agreed that I suffered long-term hearing loss after those shots, and my USAF hearing tests have confirmed I've lost some capability.

But I thought the subject here was more about the short-term loss you get immediately after firing. The one time I've fired a .357 mag without plugs my ears rang for a day and a half; but after the rifle shots, I had conversations immediately afterwards and don't remember the cotton-in-the-ears sensation associated with short-term loss.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 5:06:53 AM EDT
Well, I want the best of both worlds then.

A 12 gauge with a supressor. That way I can scare the intruder away with the sound of racking the slide, but not get the hearing loss from firing it inside the house.
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