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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/5/2002 7:38:42 AM EST
I got pulled over for speeding on my way to work today. It was legit, I was doing 79 in a 65. My truck has an NRA sticker on the back, and my CCW permit is in my wallet right next to my driver's license. When I handed it to the officer (AZ DPS), he asked "are you carrying a weapon?" I said "yes" and he asked where it was. I told him "on my belt, in a holster" and he said "OK". We discussed the speeding for a moment and he said he was goping to issue a citation. He then says "I'm gonna step back here and fill this out. Since you have a weapon and I don't know you, when I come back put your hands up on the steering wheel so I can see them." I said OK. He went and filled out the ticket and then returned shortly. We discussed it for a moment, and then he asked "Just out of curiosity, why do you carry a weapon?" I said "Well, just to be prepared. For self defense..." He then said "Just the way the world is. Probably not a bad idea." He then told me to be careful pulling back onto the highway and I was on my way. It seemed to me that he was genuinely a good guy, and I never felt that he was hasseling me about the weapon. It seemed he was just being cautious about it. "Probably not a bad idea." What do you guys think about it?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:41:38 AM EST
I this day and age, that was about as good as could be expected. I would consider it a very good interaction.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:44:07 AM EST
I think you were pulled over by one of the "good ones" who does not disagree with personal armaments. Count yourself lucky. Honestly though in AZ I would expect the cops have seen it all. Don't y'all have legal open carry down there ?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:45:32 AM EST
Everytime I got pulled over while still living in CA, the cop would look at my NRA sticker on the back windshield. Come up to my door and ask, "do you have firearms in the car?" Not weapons, firearms. Talk about profiling.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:48:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 7:49:42 AM EST by edpmedic]
If he gave you just a warning or said have a nice day it would have been better. Either way glad he was ok about the weapon
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:49:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:53:40 AM EST
How much better can it get?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:01:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By HBAR16: I think you were pulled over by one of the "good ones" who does not disagree with personal armaments. Count yourself lucky. Honestly though in AZ I would expect the cops have seen it all. Don't y'all have legal open carry down there ?
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Yes, open carry is legal. I was carrying concealed, with a t-shirt covering my pistol.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:05:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By edpmedic: If he gave you just a warning or said have a nice day it would have been better. Either way glad he was ok about the weapon
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Ya, he should have cut you a break. Still, seems like a good LEO.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:07:30 AM EST
Seems to me it's the way it should have gone. Doesn't the CCW permit imply a certain amount of responsible citizenry on the part of the holder? On another note, I've got a few gun-related stickers on my Explorer. Wonder if I should remove them to avoid the obvious attention? If these companies and organizations would stop sending me stickers and decals maybe I'd not be so tempted to stick them somewhere. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:07:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kar98: How much better can it get?
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Well, maybe except in Texas, once I live down there, when the LEO asks "y'all have any weapons on ya?" "Sir, no, Sir!" "Yankees! Here, have mine, sonny, I've got me a spare in the dang ole cruiser."
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:11:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 8:12:42 AM EST by Gunner1X]
Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo: My truck has an NRA sticker on the back, and my CCW permit is in my wallet right next to my driver's license.
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[b]As a side note[/b], you might want to consider hiding your CCW in your wallet away from you DL. If you ever get robbed at gun point, and the guy opens your wallet and sees your armed before you can get a shot into him, he may unload on you. Just an friendly suggestion. Incidently, I've been stoped three times in the past (6 or so years) for speeding. My CCW seems to have gotten me out of a ticket every time. COINKY DINK?[:\]
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:56:40 AM EST
223-Buckaroo, sounds like your experience was the perfect compromise between your rights and the officers right to protect himself. You did break the law. I'd say the situation you described should be the textbook model of how that should be handled. It's much better than the "get out with your hands on your head" I've encountered in South Carolina when I had a rifle in the trunk. I still wonder why so many officers (mostly former) I know became cops when they're so nervous around firearms. Sounds like this guy wasn't.z
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:17:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By marvl: Doesn't the CCW permit imply a certain amount of responsible citizenry on the part of the holder?
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No.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:55:59 AM EST
sounds like that cop, by being nice, violated your right to have something to complain about!
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 10:06:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 10:20:43 AM EST
Be sure to let this guy's department know you thought he did a fine job. We are quick to bitch when we get an asshole cop, why doesn't anyone commend the pros?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 10:32:59 AM EST
223B said, "My truck has an NRA sticker on the back, and my CCW permit is in my wallet right next to my driver's license. When I handed it to the officer (AZ DPS), he asked "are you carrying a weapon?" I said "yes" and he asked where it was. I told him "on my belt, in a holster" and he said "OK"." and "Yes, open carry is legal. I was carrying concealed, with a t-shirt covering my pistol." I cannot believe that the cop took your word for the fact that you had a CCW permit. I find it more probable that he already new this from running your license plate. Aren't the CCW's entered in The DMV records?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 10:49:14 AM EST
Sounds good to me. I got pulled over about a month ago for not wearing my seat belt, here in oregon they can pull you over and ticket you for not wearing a seat belt, and law enforcent do ticket people alot for this, they are good at catching people to. At the time I was carrying. So when I was pulled over I immediately removed my wallet put it on the dash and put my hands on the stearing wheel. Officer approaches asks why I did not have seat belt on. I say well I forgot to put it on. He then say the usual Licenense, registration,and insurance. So I hand him my drivers license, concealed carry permit, and insurance. He then asks am I carrying, I say yes, he says were is your firearm, I say on my right hip. He goes what is it. I say Beretta 92FS. He says nice gun. He then goes to car, writes ticket, comes back, says thanks for letting me know you are carrying. Then says sorry I dont give warnings for seat belt violations. I say that is ok, I broke the law. He says well you can take the seat belt deversion class and the ticket wont go on your record. I say cool thanks. He says have a nice day. That is it. No hessitation at all with me carrying, not even an issue, never mentioned it other than he thanked me for letting him know I was carrying and said my firearm was a nice gun. Nice guy to. Seat belt diversion class was kinda cool, got to see all kinds of stuff. Know I wear seat belt all the time!
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 10:54:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Avtomat: sounds like that cop, by being nice, violated your right to have something to complain about!
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[:D]
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 10:56:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By marvl: Doesn't the CCW permit imply a certain amount of responsible citizenry on the part of the holder?
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No.
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Why would you think that it doesn't?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 11:06:11 AM EST
The leos I've talke to here in zona have told me that they prefer you tell them up front your CCW and permited. They don't like to find out by asking. Basically, hand them your permit with license and tell them your CCW with your hand where they can see em. 99 of 100 zona cops fell that by virtue of you having the permit, your one of the good guys. Since we have open carry laws they usually don't get too freaked about guns unless they came over from that state to the west.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 12:03:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kingme: I cannot believe that the cop took your word for the fact that you had a CCW permit. I find it more probable that he already new this from running your license plate. Aren't the CCW's entered in The DMV records?
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He DIDN'T just take my word for it. He saw the permit. It's in my wallet next to my DL. So when I pulled out the DL, I pulled out the CCW. He looked at it, and then I put it away. He took the DL, registration and insurance to write the ticket. But he only looked at the CCW.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 2:35:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 2:37:47 PM EST by Kingme]
"99 of 100 zona cops fell that by virtue of you having the permit, your one of the good guys." Cops never think of you as a "good guy". You're a target of legal plunder to them. 223 said, "I got pulled over for speeding on my way to work today. It was legit, I was doing 79 in a 65." Who said it was legit? And minuteman says, "I say that is ok, I broke the law". Who said you broke the law? You guys give up easy. Seems like you like to admit to a lot of things that you may not have done? No challenges as to what the law is? No challenges as to who is actually breaking the law? I'm not sure but, seems to me that if you allow this to continue and chock up enough tickets, it may jeprodize your CCW by virtue of them calling you a continous offender. For sure it eventually may come down to suspending your DL. Then it would be interesting to see how eager you are to admit to some alleged crime while you are driving around with your "buddy". But it's hard to go back and start defending previous tickets, especially if you pled guilty. Remember, it all starts with one ticket: the one you get today.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 2:40:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo: My truck has an NRA sticker on the back, and my CCW permit is in my wallet right next to my driver's license.
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[b]As a side note[/b], you might want to consider hiding your CCW in your wallet away from you DL. If you ever get robbed at gun point, and the guy opens your wallet and sees your armed before you can get a shot into him, he may unload on you. Just an friendly suggestion. Incidently, I've been stoped three times in the past (6 or so years) for speeding. My CCW seems to have gotten me out of a ticket every time. COINKY DINK?[:\]
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Please step away from the vehicle, sir. [:D]
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 2:42:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kingme: "99 of 100 zona cops fell that by virtue of you having the permit, your one of the good guys." Cops never think of you as a "good guy". You're a target of legal plunder to them..
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Sorry, I disagree. Almost all the cops I have met here seem to be pretty decent guys, many are gun enthusiasts and aren't looking to jam honest citizens. There are always exceptions to the rule, but generally if your not a total jerk off they will give you the same respect you give them As far as fighting tickets, hell, if they got you on radar they got you. That's why I have a detector, for thos rare occasions I get lead foot syndrome.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 2:55:30 PM EST
My neighbor is a cop, and here's his take on it. He believes that when he pulls over someone and they have a concealed carry license and aren't drunk that they are the good guys. He knows they're generally law abiding citizens who care about the law and their safety, which is why they are licensed to carry. It's the non-CCW holders he is cautious with. My take is that given the fact that most police officers who die in the line of duty do so during traffic stops, it's not a bad idea to be aware of the fact that the person you have stopped may be carrying. Like my neighbor, I believe if you've taken the time to become licensed then you're generally law abiding and a good citizen who's interested in their own safety. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 3:03:33 PM EST
All in all, I think the situation was handled pretty smoothly. And the pro gun stickers on the car thing....at least here in AZ I don't see it as a problem. My truck has a "THE GUN IN THE DRIVER'S HAND IS LARGER THAN IT APPEARS" sticker along with the NRA and Keep and Bear Arms bumper stickers. I've had LEOs behind me creep up to read the "GUN" sticker and laugh. My girlfriend's GMC has "INSURED BY COLT" along with an NRA and another pro gun bumper sticker. We NEVER have any problems, though if I were gonna drive to Kalifornistan, I'd likely remove them. No use playing with fire, and I can use lawyer money for MORE GUNS.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 3:06:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kingme: You guys give up easy. Seems like you like to admit to a lot of things that you may not have done?
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What in the hell are you talking about? If he was speeding and he got a ticket then what's the problem? I speed and if I get pulled over I know that I will have deserved it. 223-Buckaroo was doing 79 in a 65. That seems to be breaking the law, and he understood that he wasn't being hassled by "The Man." God bless him for taking responsibility for his actions. He knows it's against the law to speed, he did it anyway, and when he got caught he had no problem with accepting the penalty. That's a rare person in this day and age.
No challenges as to what the law is? No challenges as to who is actually breaking the law? I'm not sure but, seems to me that if you allow this to continue and chock up enough tickets, it may jeprodize your CCW by virtue of them calling you a continous offender.
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And if he continues to break the law by speeding, are they labeling him inappropriately? If he's smart, he'll just get a good traffic lawyer and the ticket will never make his record.
For sure it eventually may come down to suspending your DL. Then it would be interesting to see how eager you are to admit to some alleged crime while you are driving around with your "buddy". But it's hard to go back and start defending previous tickets, especially if you pled guilty. Remember, it all starts with one ticket: the one you get today.
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Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 3:33:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kingme: ...You guys give up easy. Seems like you like to admit to a lot of things that you may not have done? ...
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????? 223-Buckaroo thought he was going 79 when he was only going 65??
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 3:56:58 PM EST
So many pickups carry weapons in Texas it is almost assumed you might have a gun. I know a lot of law enforcement officers in my area and they mostly consider CCW holders the good guys. Man am I glad to live in Texas! BTW- As far as stickers go, the only one I have on my truck is one that identifies me as contributing to a state-wide sheriffs fund.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 4:39:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kingme: "99 of 100 zona cops fell that by virtue of you having the permit, your one of the good guys." Cops never think of you as a "good guy". You're a target of legal plunder to them. 223 said, "I got pulled over for speeding on my way to work today. It was legit, I was doing 79 in a 65." Who said it was legit? And minuteman says, "I say that is ok, I broke the law". Who said you broke the law? You guys give up easy. Seems like you like to admit to a lot of things that you may not have done? No challenges as to what the law is? No challenges as to who is actually breaking the law? I'm not sure but, seems to me that if you allow this to continue and chock up enough tickets, it may jeprodize your CCW by virtue of them calling you a continous offender. For sure it eventually may come down to suspending your DL. Then it would be interesting to see how eager you are to admit to some alleged crime while you are driving around with your "buddy". But it's hard to go back and start defending previous tickets, especially if you pled guilty. Remember, it all starts with one ticket: the one you get today.
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79 in 65 is an alleged crime? Driving is a priveledge. And yes the majority of LEOs feel that a legally carrying CCW is one of the "good guys". It's not the guys with CCWs I worry about.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 4:44:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By LE6920: Driving is a priveledge.
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Was riding a horse a privilege in 1776?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:04:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By anti-gov-tinfoil-man:
Originally Posted By LE6920: Driving is a priveledge.
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Was riding a horse a privilege in 1776?
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I guess you can feel free to go back to 1776 then.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:06:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By LE6920:
Originally Posted By anti-gov-tinfoil-man:
Originally Posted By LE6920: Driving is a priveledge.
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Was riding a horse a privilege in 1776?
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I guess you can feel free to go back to 1776 then.
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No real answer huh?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:16:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By anti-gov-tinfoil-man:
Originally Posted By LE6920:
Originally Posted By anti-gov-tinfoil-man:
Originally Posted By LE6920: Driving is a priveledge.
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Was riding a horse a privilege in 1776?
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I guess you can feel free to go back to 1776 then.
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No real answer huh?
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what are you trying to compare? I can't compare apples and oranges and are you sure you weren't that donkey they were riding in 1776?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:18:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By LE6920:
Originally Posted By anti-gov-tinfoil-man:
Originally Posted By LE6920:
Originally Posted By anti-gov-tinfoil-man:
Originally Posted By LE6920: Driving is a priveledge.
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Was riding a horse a privilege in 1776?
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I guess you can feel free to go back to 1776 then.
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No real answer huh?
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what are you trying to compare? I can't compare apples and oranges and are you sure you weren't that donkey they were riding in 1776?
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How are they apples and oranges? They are both the common mode of travel of the day.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:30:34 PM EST
GodBlessTexas said, "He knows it's against the law to speed..." It's too late to get into this now, but just for openers, consider this. It's against the statutes to speed, but it's not against common law to speed. It's against the statutes to drive without a license. It's not against common law to travel without a license. In common law, unless you do harm to someone or something, you have committed NO crime. No harm = No criminal. But common law didn't bring in much revenue for the agencies. So they invented statutes. Now the "law", the statute, says you're hurting the agency, city, state whatever, by preventing them from acquiring revenue. City and states are corporations. But this is not where I was coming from when I mentioned "alleged" crime. There's a maxim of law called the clean hands principle. That says you have to have to be innocent of crimes yourself before you can accuse someone else of committing a crime. It's founded on biblical principles. How do you know whether the LEO committed any violation in stopping you? Stops by LEO's are seizures. What's his probable cause? Was it really because you were allegedly speeding or was it profiling you due to the bumper stickers on your car? Would the LEO treat a blackman the same way? Did he ask you questions like "Why were you going so fast?" If so, it may be a tricky way to get you to admit guilt. If so, that may be a violation of your fifth ammendment protection of self incrimination. Was he arbitrary in giving tickets? LEO's like to call this discretion. Discretion means arbitrary enforcement. And so on. How do you know whether the agency was innocent in notifying you of a controlled area? There is a thread on this site about the legal height of speed limit signs. Say they allowed radar to be used on you. This could be criminal negligance. Did you give them permission to subject your body to doses of radiation? Can they prove how much or how little radiation they gave you? Radiation causes cancer. Are they causing you to get cancer? Are they contributing to your future ill health? And so on. Again, LEO's think they're helping the public. In acutallity, they're helping the agency they work for to increase their revenue, and that at your expense. (When agencies consider hiring an LEO, they always consider how much money the LEO can make for them.) The problem is convincing them that they're wrong. But the training they receive brainwashes them so completely, that it is difficult to do this. Some are waking up. Some know what's going on. Usually it's the retired ones that speak out. And this is not cop bashing. It's just the truth of what's going on behind the scenes.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:45:51 PM EST
When the officer asked why I had a pistol, I told him "Same reason you do. Too many crazies running around anymore." I, luckily only got a warning ticket.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:58:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By lordtrader: Everytime I got pulled over while still living in CA, the cop would look at my NRA sticker on the back windshield. Come up to my door and ask, "do you have firearms in the car?" Not weapons, firearms. Talk about profiling.
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LT, I respect a man who uses the term "firearm". It is specific. Almost anything can be used as a "weapon". Rolled up magazines; tire irons; your pen; etc. Weapon is too general of a term. To me, "WEAPON" implies use of the firearm for offense or defense. Most people would only think of a gun/firearm as a weapon, because that term is used so often in the media and everyday conversation. I believe your objection to or perception of profiling stems from the specificity in the officer's question. Of course, you could just say, "HELL, YES, SIR! I have a whole carload of weaponry, depending on how you look at it!" [;D]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:01:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By az_larry: Since we have open carry laws they usually don't get too freaked about guns unless they came over from that state to the west.
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Yeah, those f*ckers from Nevada can be a crazy lot. [:D]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 4:45:27 AM EST
When I make contact with someone on a traffic stop, and they tell they have a gun, I always smile and tell them "This is Arizona: Everyone should have a gun". Just don't do anything stupid with it, and I could actually care less. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 4:49:29 AM EST
When asked "Why do you carry?", my response would have been that ever since the police have started issuing more citations than actually patrolling, I take it upon myself to defend my interests! But then again, I'd be a dick for saying that and I'd feel bad, so I'd probably have kept my wise ass shut in this one! Now if the cop was a real asshole about it....
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:31:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 6:35:33 AM EST by RobertInMaine]
Originally Posted By marvl: Doesn't the CCW permit imply a certain amount of responsible citizenry on the part of the holder? [:)]
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..... yes it does. And that's why we shouldn't be speeding! I've harped on this quite a bit. CCW holders need to be better than everyone else and not do anything wrong to cast suspicion on us or have us in negative light. That being said, I'll probably be the next to get pulled over [:)]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:31:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By marvl: Doesn't the CCW permit imply a certain amount of responsible citizenry on the part of the holder? [:)]
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..... yes it does. And that's why we shouldn't be speeding! I've harped on this quite a bit. CCW holders need to be better than everyone else and not do anything wrong to cast suspicion on us or have us in negative light. That being said, I'll probably be the next to get pulled over [:)]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:39:04 AM EST
ding ding dang dang double double posts posts my my bad bad
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:52:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kingme: Again, LEO's think they're helping the public.
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Couple months ago a guy was speeding a couple towns over and wasted a little girl. Pretty sure if he was doing the speed limit he could've braked in time. Follow the logic? Hell, I was speeding once, came over a hill and almost plowed into an old guy. Speeding can harm things.
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