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Posted: 12/26/2003 9:54:15 AM EDT
My friend was telling me the PFC and PV2's are treated even worse during basic because for every job (firewatch)needed to be done they will get the PV2 or PFC.

and they will also pick the PV2/pfc's for squad leaders and because of this you will get your ass chewed all day.

any truth to this?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 9:59:44 AM EDT
yep, been there done that....also if your a little older than the other 18 year olds , I was 27 when I went through basic...I was squad leader or platoon guide for the entire 12 weeks of basic and AIT...tell your friend it will only make him stronger and actually more respected by his peers and drill instructors alike....It will only hurt a little bit.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 10:00:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mike45acp:
any truth to this?
View Quote


Yes! With rank comes responsibility...It matters not whether you were there or knew anything about it. If a subordinate of yours screws up you'll get blamed. That's just the way it is. You get chewed out, then you chew out the subordinate.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 10:19:22 AM EDT
MY friend went through basic as an Eagle Boy Scout and enlisted as a PFC.  During basic, somehow the Drill Sgt found out how he got PFC and from there on out... we carried the flag, led the squad, did more duties that the Pvt due to his rank and why he got the rank.  

When it was all over, the Drill Sgt walked up to him and gave him the "Order of the Arrow" handshake and a smirk of a smile.  
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 10:24:43 AM EDT
yep , I got top scout when I graduated scout AIT...don't be afraid It's only life.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 10:27:51 AM EDT
When I went to basic you had NO rank. Everyone was equally worthless. Rank was issued and approved in the last week.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 10:46:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
When I went to basic you had NO rank. Everyone was equally worthless. Rank was issued and approved in the last week.
View Quote


Same here--- rank was  recruit
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 11:07:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
When I went to basic you had NO rank. Everyone was equally worthless. Rank was issued and approved in the last week.
View Quote
Same here.  No one wore rank til after we had our Rifles pinned on and had our warrior breakfast.  On paper we were PFCs, SPCs, PV1 and PV2 and got paid as such but when it came down to training and how we were looked at by the Drill SGTS and Company commander we were all Privates.  Rank didnt matter anyway since we all pulled the same duties and held the same shitty jobs  regardless of what we got paid.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 11:57:15 AM EDT
In 1968 some of the guys were NG and AR who were E2 by the time they started basic. They were required to remove any unit designations, rank, etc from uniforms. They were paid according to their actual rank, however.
We were all treated like crap so no one took it personally. The upside of the additional rank is more pay, never a bad thing.
Don't take any chewing out personally, either. Behind the DI's back you can raise the mimicry of it to a comedic art form.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:06:14 PM EDT
I took JROTC in High School which enabled me to enter the Army as a E-3. And of course with that high speed training (ha-ha) in High School and PFC on my collar they made me Squad Leader. But I received just as much BS as someone entering as an E-1. And I also had to wait 11 months DEP for my MOS, so after being in basic 1 month my LES reflected 1 year TIS!

I'll never forget when the Drill Sgt's passed out the rank, some guys had earned E-2 by bringing in a buddy, I got alot of looks when I pinned on my PFC for JROTC!

Quite a few guys teased me in HS about ROTC, but guess who I met at the recruiting office days after graduation. And what was the recruiters first question? "Any ROTC time?"
"Ahhh....no."
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:13:51 PM EDT
I went into basic training in 1972 as an E2.  The first day there they had any of us with rank above E1 put on our rank insignia.  The second day they made us take it back off.  No distinction, no preference, no extra BS.  We were all treated alike.  (Crappy is my recollection). :)  Watch-Six
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:15:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 5:54:58 PM EDT by cmjohnson]
Air Force, basic in '87.  Entered as E-3 due to four years of HS ROTC.

In those years, there was a program in place called PA, or "Proficiency Advanced".  Anyone entering with two stripes (ME!) as a result of 4 years ROTC, and not some other qualifying factor for the higher rank,  was in that program, and rather than six weeks of basic training, our training was twelve days of training, not counting the weekends in between.  You could lose the PA status if you screwed up hard enough, long enough, and often enough, but it never happened while I was there as far as I know.

After about the fourth day of training, I rarely saw my own squadron because I was on a heavily accelerated schedule.  They presumed I already knew how to march and drill, etc. and they were right.   So with my own plate being full and not connected with the general squadron's activities,  neither I nor any other PA would be a squadron leader or hold any other special position.  

However,  when it came time to ship out to tech school,  I was given command of my squadron's MOTHER squadron for those who were going to the same base as I was.   It was kind of funny.

BMTS LITE!

It went by so fast it's a blur in my mind.  

CJ
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:35:32 PM EDT
In the Army today it makes no difference, I've been out of OSUT for less than a year (May, OSUT is Basic and AIT put into one loooong course) and I'm here to tell you other than the Drills relying on us a little more to teach our battle buddies some of the more inane concepts, you realy dont get treated much different. I was the only Specialist in the whole Battalion and I think I got treated the same as anyone else who showed themselves not to be some kind of dumbass or hardcore screwup....I *wanted* to be there and was given treatment accordingly.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:56:24 PM EDT
I'm almost done with basic right now, (Ft. Knox) and I'm an E2, it makes no difference, we're all equal opportunity assholes to the Drill Sergeants.

From the way I see it, the Drills seem to give stuff like squad leader or pg, to the guys that are either, prior service, or older and not so immature. most of our squad leaders are E1 or 2's we have quite a few college specialists, so the paper rank don't really matter, its more the person that matters. Either way you're gonna be doing shitty jobs, rank or no rank so it makes no difference.
All the drills here call us privates regardless of rank.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 1:15:02 PM EDT
If  he can go as a PFC, do it! He will be given more responsibility, but that is what he is there for! If he cant hack it, he will be replaced.

I don't think that basic training is tough enough anymore, this will just give him an opportunity to show what he is made of!
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 1:43:25 PM EDT
Go through as  a PFC; if nothing else, its slightly  more cash. The duty positions like SL get rotated anyway, or at least they did when I went through.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 1:46:00 PM EDT
Yup, you'll be guaranteed to be a squad leader,etc. Have fun!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 2:32:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kabal57:
I'm almost done with basic right now,
View Quote


Holiday leave? Or do you get e-mail/ internet time in basic now?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 3:48:45 PM EDT
I am a PFC currently going through Infantry OSUT at Ft. Benning (I am on exodus now, thank God.)

What those extra stripes mean depends a lot on your Drill Sergeant.  In my experience, DSs look more to age/maturity level than rank to determine responsibility.  Some Drill Sergeants don't like for trainees to wear their rank, others do.  I never wore mine after Week 1 (I just finished Week 7) because they kept breaking and falling off.  

PFC does not make you any more likely to be PG or squad leader anymore because so many guys are getting extra stripes these days for DEP, National Guard "Stripes for Buddies," college time, or Eagle Scout(my case.)  I would venture to say that more than 1/2 of the guys in my platoon (1/D/1-19) are PV2 or higher.  There are a number of PFCs in my platoon that are complete pieces of shit; on the other hand, our PG and two of our current squad leaders are PVTs.  Drill Sergeants tend to pick a hard-charger for PG, unless they want to make you miserable, in which case they pick someone useless.  Show a lot of 'motivation' and you will be PG at some point, regardless of rank.  
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 4:20:38 PM EDT
You want all the rank you can get; it doesn't make a PINCH OF SHIT difference to the drill sergeants, either.  The difference in pay between e-1 and e-2 is 240 bucks a month and e2/e3 is 70 bucks more.  shit adds up.
not to mention, once you get back to the real world (if you're arng or reserve) you will get the chance ...  to get to BNOC sooner (basic nco training) becuase you don't have to serve additional dumbass time in grade as a pv2 or a pfc...and THAT is worth it.
Step up to the challenge.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 4:32:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Air Force, basic in '87.  Entered as E-3 due to four years of HS ROTC.

In those years, there was a program in place called PA, or "Proficiency Advanced".  Anyone entering with two stripes (ME!) as a result of 4 years ROTC, and not some other qualifying factor for the higher rank,  was in that program, and rather than six weeks of basic training, our training was twelve days of training, not counting the weeks in between.  You could lose the PA status if you screwed up hard enough, long enough, and often enough, but it never happened while I was there as far as I know.

After about the fourth day of training, I rarely saw my own squadron because I was on a heavily accelerated schedule.  They presumed I already knew how to march and drill, etc. and they were right.   So with my own plate being full and not connected with the general squadron's activities,  neither I nor any other PA would be a squadron leader or hold any other special position.  

However,  when it came time to ship out to tech school,  I was given command of my squadron's MOTHER squadron for those who were going to the same base as I was.   It was kind of funny.

BMTS LITE!

It went by so fast it's a blur in my mind.  

CJ
View Quote


That's it. My friend (and I, but I went into the Corps) had the Billy award from the CAP and he went to basic for two weeks in the air force.

People do not believe me when I tell them that was the deal. He told me 90% of it was medical and paperwork and a little bit about pay and rifles.

I am glad someone else went to it.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 4:46:48 PM EDT
Guess it all depends on the DS I went in as an E1 and I saw alot of returning recuits doing AIT to finish their split training option.  They were held to a higher standard than other recruits.  Oh yea don't bring porn to basic... [;)]
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:02:26 PM EDT
That's a pretty good description.  Medical and rifles,  and I didn't even get to do the rifle qual in basic because of scheduling conflicts with the SP's who had the range for their regularly scheduled session.     I wanted to get that in basic, so much that I arranged to add another attempt at the range to my schedule by getting up at 3 in the morning.   Second try, same as the first.  Of course a recruit can't call ahead and see if the range is going to be available, so hike three miles, get turned away at the gate, go back.  Do it again the next morning.   Extra effort and initiative on my part got me....tired feet.  But at least the time spent walking was time spent truly alone and relaxed during Basic, walking across Lackland AFB at 4 in the morning under a cool but utterly cloudless sky in late November.   It was the most time I had in Basic to just do something without being watched or yelled at, and gave me time to think things through.  So it was worth it even if I did get waivered out of M16 qualification in Basic Training.  Had to get that at my permanent duty station.

CJ
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:59:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SDavid:
Originally Posted By kabal57:
I'm almost done with basic right now,
View Quote


Holiday leave? Or do you get e-mail/ internet time in basic now?
View Quote


WTF? thats what I was wondering. Internet in basic? You don't even get holiday leave in basic. Maybe you are on town pass and went to the local library?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:39:24 PM EDT
I was at Fort Knox this past summer.

Split trained and had B Troop the "Black Jacks" both times. Basic sucked. AIT was great. Coming back for AIT all of us Nasty Girls were very squared away and brought up the "average" for the whole troop. They treated us good because of that. My Drill SGT's were DS Rodreguez and DS Hernandez. Obviously hispanic and they could be some mean mo fo's when they wanted to be. I loved 'em anyway. Lot's of respect there.

I'd say almost every other week at least we got some time off to go to the movies or use the phone trailers where there was internet access too.

Ahh! About the porn. I had some great soft core pic's of the wife pre-positioned in my Yahoo photo album that I could print out (very carefully) during some of the passes.

Nothing like shaking hands with yourself in the afternoon to make AIT life alittle more bareable. The Mouse House cleaning closet)is the only place that had a lock on the door and I was in there so much [smoke] they put me in charge of the place.

Here's some AIT pic's if you like. Sorry no pic's of the wife here so don't waste your time trying to find 'em.  Fort Knox Album [url]http://photos.yahoo.com/mk1iii[/url]

If you see my Drills tell 'em Snoop said Hi!
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 11:39:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
Originally Posted By SDavid:
Originally Posted By kabal57:
I'm almost done with basic right now,
View Quote


Holiday leave? Or do you get e-mail/ internet time in basic now?
View Quote


WTF? thats what I was wondering. Internet in basic? You don't even get holiday leave in basic. Maybe you are on town pass and went to the local library?
View Quote


I'm on exodus leave :)
We didn't even get phone calls in basic much less internet or anything else. The army hasn't gone THAT far downhill yet.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 11:46:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mk1iii:
I was at Fort Knox this past summer.

Split trained and had B Troop the "Black Jacks" both times. Basic sucked. AIT was great. Coming back for AIT all of us Nasty Girls were very squared away and brought up the "average" for the whole troop. They treated us good because of that. My Drill SGT's were DS Rodreguez and DS Hernandez. Obviously hispanic and they could be some mean mo fo's when they wanted to be. I loved 'em anyway. Lot's of respect there.

I'd say almost every other week at least we got some time off to go to the movies or use the phone trailers where there was internet access too.

Ahh! About the porn. I had some great soft core pic's of the wife pre-positioned in my Yahoo photo album that I could print out (very carefully) during some of the passes.

Nothing like shaking hands with yourself in the afternoon to make AIT life alittle more bareable. The Mouse House cleaning closet)is the only place that had a lock on the door and I was in there so much [smoke] they put me in charge of the place.

Here's some AIT pic's if you like. Sorry no pic's of the wife here so don't waste your time trying to find 'em.  Fort Knox Album [url]http://photos.yahoo.com/mk1iii[/url]

If you see my Drills tell 'em Snoop said Hi!
View Quote


Ds Rodriguez huh? I'm in Bravo 2/46 INF. we have a DS Rodriguez here, nobody likes him tho, he's a straight up dick. Maybe there's 2 of them on the base, I know there's like 450 DS's there.

The drills we got in 2/46 2nd plt. are DS Tule, Gries, Thacker and Jones (they kicked him out of our company and moved him to Charlie after a little supposed "cruel and unusual punishment" training issue involving us about 2 weeks ago, which sucked cause DS Jones kicked ass :(  )
Some of the others are DS Collins, Martinez, Cencerios, Thomas, Townsend, Smith and a few others. Know any of them? All the drills in our Co. are great except for Rodriguez, DS Collins and Martinez are the funniest ever.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 12:10:59 AM EDT
Previous experience and rank may come in handy if and when you show the DS you can be depended on and he can spend a little more time on folks who need it.  But I would think the fall from grace could be higher and faster if you screw up on something you should be able to handle.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 12:59:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 1:02:40 AM EDT by mk1iii]


Ds Rodriguez huh? I'm in Bravo 2/46 INF. we have a DS Rodriguez here, nobody likes him tho, he's a straight up dick. Maybe there's 2 of them on the base, I know there's like 450 DS's there.

The drills we got in 2/46 2nd plt. are DS Tule, Gries, Thacker and Jones.

Some of the others are DS Collins, Martinez, Cencerios, Thomas, Townsend, Smith and a few others. Know any of them?
View Quote


I'm guessing not the same one as my DS's are 19 Delta's not 11 Bravo.

A few of those names you mentioned especially Martinez sound familiar while in Reception which was in your neck of the woods. Good Luck!
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 1:29:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mike45acp:
My friend was telling me the PFC and PV2's are treated even worse during basic because for every job (firewatch)needed to be done they will get the PV2 or PFC.

and they will also pick the PV2/pfc's for squad leaders and because of this you will get your ass chewed all day.

any truth to this?
View Quote


I'm in the middle of Infantry OSUT right now.  I'm home on Christmas Exodus.  Heres what I've seen so far...

The day we arrived at basic, the Drill Sergeants swarmed all over the guys who are specialists.  Gave them all kinds of hell.  All of the various privates catch about the same level of shit of the DS's.

As far as guys with more rank having mroe responsibilities... not in my platoon.  Fireguard just goes in roster number order.(the guy who handles the fireguard schedule was picked by the recruits, not the DS.. he's an ex-marine who has his shit togather, so we had him do it)  Same with the other duties.  I think the platoon guide is a PFC, and only one squad leader is a SPC.  The rest are privates.  My squad leader is just an E1.

To me it doesn't appear that rank means anything in basic.  In the early days the specialists caught some extra hell.. probably just to let them know they are no better than the E1's while in basic.

Everyone wears their rank, but it doesn't make their lives any easier or any harder.  When I get back to Fort Benning I start week 5... at this point the DS's treat us all equally no matter what our rank is.

Thats my 2 cents.
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