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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/29/2005 12:02:59 PM EDT
I recently read an article in our military newspaper about the differences btwn our infantry movement in open terrain and the way the us military moves. We use a squad of 4 in front of the rest of the team consisting of a lieutenant, negevist, designated marksman (seconds as nvigator), and a medic. this is what we call our Hod (spearhead). the article was comparing the advantages and disadvantages to forward movement this way, just wanted to get some thoughts from you guys. please only .mil guys reply.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:04:57 PM EDT
tag in hopes of good discussion
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:26:17 PM EDT
Hmm.. We try to avoid open terrain if at all possible.. :-)

Seriously, if you've got to get across on foot, it seems to me that if possible, you'll set up an MG at the last bit of cover, and send one poor squad across first and see if they make it. That squad of nine would be probably in a wedge/arrowhead formation.

I'm not infantry though, so your mileage may vary.

NTM
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:28:53 PM EDT

How is "open terrain" defined?

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:29:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 12:30:14 PM EDT by JSteensen]
yup, send a security team across to the the far side, utilizing their individual movement techniques, secure the far side, and then move each other squad across. (At least thats how my team leader would do it (whos sitting next to me)

John
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:30:34 PM EDT
fly?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:34:43 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:36:36 PM EDT
Is a "Negevist" a machine-gunner?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:36:52 PM EDT
this might be interesting
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:42:20 PM EDT
Typically if memory serves me, movement through open terrain is usually by one of two methods. If you expect contact, you move by bounding overwatch. If no contact is expected, travelling overwatch. These would usually be done in a wedge formation consisting of two groupsof about three or four. Wedge formation is preffered in open terrain because it allows the maximum amount of firepower to be brought to bear in the direction of travel. The soldier that said he would send one group over while another group covered them, and vise versa, was describing a bounding overwatch. I would need to make a drawing to illustrate what I mean.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:45:34 PM EDT
The US Army uses a technique called "bounding overwatch".

A light infantry squad is made up of two fire teams. One fire team provides 'overwatch' (covering fire) while the other uses cover and concealment to move to the next overwatch position, then the team previously in overwatch bounds past them and the previously bounding team takes up overwatch.

During movement, one formation used is a 'wedge' (arrowhead). The squad leader places himself so as to best control fire and movement if contact is initiated.

Platoons move by bounding squads. Companies can move by bounding platoons.

Mechanized units use the same process, and it can be done with dismounted and mounted elements (the Bradleys would usually provide the overwatch while the dismounted infantry manuevers).

FM 7-7 Mechanized Rifle Platoon and Squad and FM 7-8 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad are your friends.


Mechanized Infantry bounding overwatch


Infantry squad techniques

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:51:03 PM EDT
Bounding overwatch is very fatigueing, and can't always be done all the time. Traveling overwatch is acceptable too if no contact is expected. That's more like what our Isreali friend is describing. A three or four man wedge formation in front of another wedge. The rear wedge maintains line of sight with front wedge at all times, but is not too close that they would get pinned down with the front group. Terrain dictates the distance quite a bit in this mode.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:53:41 PM EDT


Didn't Benecio del Toro and Ryan Phillipe execute a two man version of this in 'Way of the Gun'?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:53:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 12:55:34 PM EDT by Ajax72]

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
Typically if memory serves me, movement through open terrain is usually by one of two methods. If you expect contact, you move by bounding overwatch. If no contact is expected, travelling overwatch. These would usually be done in a wedge formation consisting of two groupsof about three or four. Wedge formation is preffered in open terrain because it allows the maximum amount of firepower to be brought to bear in the direction of travel. The soldier that said he would send one group over while another group covered them, and vise versa, was describing a bounding overwatch. I would need to make a drawing to illustrate what I mean.



Correct from my recollections (my experience was with squad sized elements). It is possible to use two wedges with the point man out front, and your PL between the wedges with commo. We have also used ranger file, and a diamond formation.

Usually, for patrol, we used a point out about 20 meters with a nav/pace man about 5 meters behind him. usually either ranger file or two wedges followed with designated rifleman, 203 gunners, and if you have the firepower, a pig. We also went out with at least two comm units, and everyone who went were combat lifesaver qualified since we took a full medic bag.

Crossing open terrain or "danger zones" was accomplished by bounding, and as always your point man crossed first and established a location for a defensive perimeter. We were fortunate to all have whisper mics (mainly because we had to set out LP/OP's and needed constant commo capabilities between 3 to 4 fire teams while in ambush).

That's what I remember. (1991-1992, DMZ Korea)
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:54:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 12:57:00 PM EDT by ocuppier]

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Is a "Negevist" a machine-gunner?



yes- negevist is the one that shoots the negev.

about the bounding- we move in groups of four- the second covering the first, the 3rd covering the second, and so on. from what i understood when us infantry moves they have scouts on the sides of the columns whereas we do not.

dk-prof- open terrain being anything that is not urban and not mounted on an apc- could be fields, mountains...

edit:// one of the 4 always has a radio- recently we have been using the 624 with an amp, or the 91 series. the officer also has a 624 amped up- giving it 6 km range. that is one of our things, we try to get everyone a field radio, not just the radio men.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:59:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ocuppier:

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Is a "Negevist" a machine-gunner?



yes- negevist is the one that shoots the negev.

about the bounding- we move in groups of four- the second covering the first, the 3rd covering the second, and so on. from what i understood when us infantry moves they have scouts on the sides of the columns whereas we do not.

dk-prof- open terrain being anything that is not urban and not mounted on an apc- could be fields, mountains...



We always had one leg of the wedge longer than the other (like geese in flight), and alterated from side to side between the two so that we had one guy on the far right, and one on the far left. They were always rifleman, and they had the duty of scanning the sides of the patrol on the move. Usually they turned out to be set up in LP/OP upon reaching a TRP or Rally Point.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:01:01 PM EDT
Read "The Last Hundred Yards" and "Phantom Soldier" by H. John Poole.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 4:05:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 4:09:37 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By ocuppier:


dk-prof- open terrain being anything that is not urban and not mounted on an apc- could be fields, mountains...



Thanks - I was just curious if you meant something like completely open and devoid of cover, like deserts, etc. Since we're talking about "regular" terrain, I'd agree with what others have said - with bounding (or leap-frogging) overwatch for movement when you expect contact.

(Granted, my infantry experience is not in the U.S. military, so I'm really just a spectator in this interesting thread )
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:06:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xxTAPxx:

Didn't Benecio del Toro and Ryan Phillipe execute a two man version of this in 'Way of the Gun'?



yes, common term for it is "leap-frogging"
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:09:43 PM EDT
1. Stop your element and establish hasty security in a covered position.


2. Call in artillery or air stike on surrounding area.


3. Move out and have a nice day.



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