engine oil new perspective

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - engine oil new perspective

Posted: 11/19/2003 5:52:21 AM EDT

thicker is better for the long haul

Posted: 11/19/2003 6:03:02 AM EDT

[#1]

That is a very interesting read. I can see that the science of motor oils is quite sophisticated.

Posted: 11/19/2003 6:12:03 AM EDT

[#2]

Good read! I had no idea that standards changed in 2001 allowing a 'thinning' of all grades while giving the ability to keep the same viscosity measurement.

Posted: 11/19/2003 6:13:30 AM EDT

[#3]

From the article:

Additionally, consider how most vehicles are driven. Anyone accelerating slowly or driving at the speed limit to conserve energy is a danger to himself and other drivers who are in a much bigger hurry.

How true!

As for the rest of the article: VERY interesting. Maybe I'll request 10W-40 at my next oil change...

Can anyone who knows this stuff cold do a bit of translation? What do the oil grade numbers (5W, 10W, etc.) mean? I understood the part about thinning oils in heat (duh!), but the rest is still a bit cloudy.

Also, can anyone recommend or NOT recommend synthetic oils?

Posted: 11/19/2003 6:25:02 AM EDT

[#4]

My car uses 5W-30, but I only use it in the winter, during the summer I use 10W-40.

Posted: 11/19/2003 6:36:00 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Can anyone who knows this stuff cold do a bit of translation? What do the oil grade numbers (5W, 10W, etc.) mean? I understood the part about thinning oils in heat (duh!), but the rest is still a bit cloudy.

I think the "W" means winter, and it inidcates the flowability in the winter time or start up time. The lower the number the easier the flow. I think the main logic behind thin easy flowability oils is at start up time, when their is zero oil pressure & lubrication in the engine so that you want the oil to flow as quickly as possible because that is where something like 90% of the engine wear, at start up time.

Posted: 11/19/2003 6:53:37 AM EDT

[#6]

Here is a recommendation for synthetic oil.
I got a 94 chevy c 1500 pickup with 340,000 miles on it. I use synthetic 10w-30 in it(mobil 1)along with walmart filters (they are made by the same people who make mobil 1 oil filters). No engine problems. I am going to drive it till it quits.

Posted: 11/19/2003 7:14:51 AM EDT

[#7]

The best oil for your vehicle depends on your driving habits, the age of your engine and the climate you drive in, but it is not necessarily the type of oil specified in the owner’s manual or stamped on the dipstick.

That is what I found to be the most interesting point.

zaphod, as far as my opinion goes, if you do extended oil changes say 7500 to 10,000 miles before changing ok --- syn. oil has merit, if you change every 3000 to 5000 stick with the dino oil, they work as well and are cost effective, no advantqage to the syn. oil for those milages.

Now the only exception to that would be high end vehicles - BMW, Mercedes, you get it.

Posted: 11/19/2003 7:21:02 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
zaphod, as far as my opinion goes, if you do extended oil changes say 7500 to 10,000 miles before changing ok --- syn. oil has merit, if you change every 3000 to 5000 stick with the dino oil, they work as well and are cost effective, no advantqage to the syn. oil for those milages.

I agree, in my younger days, changing the oil at 3,000-4,000 was not a big deal, now I will pay the difference for the synthetics as I've got many more things to do on a weekend.

Posted: 11/19/2003 7:25:28 AM EDT

[#9]

Good advice, seeing as I've got an overdue oil-change coming up.

I drive a 2000 Trooper truck in the city and occaissionally on the open highway. I live in Miami, so cold is hardly a problem...

By the end of this week I'll know if that remains the same. If not, then I'll be driving in open cities/outskirts and more highway, with temps ranging from freezing to the desert.

BTW, do any of those Teflon additives really work? I used some a while back in my '89 prelude, and one thing I did notice is that the engine ran a lot QUIETER. I don't know if it was because of thicker oil (which would make sense) or the additive (which is thicker than the oil, but has the alleged teflon).

Same question for that "Z-Max" stuff the hick USAF general advertises....

Posted: 11/19/2003 7:25:43 AM EDT

[#10]

A multi grade oil, say 10W30 will flow like a 10 weight oil at 32 degrees and like a 30 weight oil at 100 degrees.
The Society of Automotive Engineers has a standard flow test used to determine the viscosity at those temps. Not sure if 100 degrees is correct, its been a while.
I live in Fl and use nothing but 20W50 Castrol Syntec. If I still lived up north I would use 5W30 in the winter.

Posted: 11/19/2003 7:44:31 AM EDT

[#11]

BTW, do any of those Teflon additives really work? I used some a while back in my '89 prelude, and one thing I did notice is that the engine ran a lot QUIETER. I don't know if it was because of thicker oil (which would make sense) or the additive (which is thicker than the oil, but has the alleged teflon).

Same question for that "Z-Max" stuff the hick USAF general advertises....

No teflon is snake oil, not made for an engine, and may do more harm than good, sludge up , and clog oil passages. You really do not need a additive for any engine with the exception of rebuilt engines. In which a anti- skuff oil additive might be added for breakin of certain parts. ex: mopar anti skuff additive, I forget the part number.
It was the thicker oil for sure that quieted down your engine.

Posted: 11/21/2003 5:42:15 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
No teflon is snake oil, not made for an engine, and may do more harm than good, sludge up , and clog oil passages. You really do not need a additive for any engine with the exception of rebuilt engines. In which a anti- skuff oil additive might be added for breakin of certain parts. ex: mopar anti skuff additive, I forget the part number.
It was the thicker oil for sure that quieted down your engine.

That's what I figured. Thanks. I'll just use a heavier oil.

Posted: 11/21/2003 6:03:50 AM EDT

[#13]

Ive got a 2000 Nissan Maxima with about 75k highway miles on it. The mfr calls for 5w30 and I run Mobil 1 Synthetic. At this age (75k) should I switch from 5w30 to 10w40?

Posted: 11/21/2003 7:15:42 AM EDT

[#14]

I'm not a mechanic, but I DO remember hearing that older engines should use a thicker oil simply because the thicker oilf fills in the "gaps" where wear has occurred, and makes leaks a little more difficult.

It sounds reasonable to me, but if I'm wrong, someone call me on it.

Posted: 11/21/2003 2:06:12 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
The best oil for your vehicle depends on your driving habits, the age of your engine and the climate you drive in, but it is not necessarily the type of oil specified in the owner’s manual or stamped on the dipstick.

That is what I found to be the most interesting point.

zaphod, as far as my opinion goes, if you do extended oil changes say 7500 to 10,000 miles before changing ok --- syn. oil has merit, if you change every 3000 to 5000 stick with the dino oil, they work as well and are cost effective, no advantqage to the syn. oil for those milages.

Now the only exception to that would be high end vehicles - BMW, Mercedes, you get it.

Care to explain what the difference is in the high end vechicles that warrents a different set of oil changing rules?

Posted: 11/21/2003 2:42:48 PM EDT

[#16]

Sure
supposely a lambo countach takes 18 qt of oil at $80.00 a qt. that comes out to $1440.00 for an oil change, and thats just for the oil only.

and:
"the [Ferrari] Enzo’s [uses] special Shell Helix 10W-60 synthetic oil, of which the V-12 requires 12.2 quarts, runs $60 per quart. If a $732 oil change sounds criminal, consider that the factory won’t warrant the engine if you don’t use the oil and estimates the replacement bill at $200,000."

I get my oil for changes at walmart for 30 bucks with mobile 1 oil + Super Tech filter.

Posted: 11/21/2003 3:15:22 PM EDT

[#17]

my saturn burns a qt of oil every 1200 miles. By the time i hit the 3000 change i have replaced 1/2 oil already.

I let it ride to around 5000k the change it all and the filter. i figure a lot of the contaminates are burning out as well.

182k miles and rolling along nicely.

Posted: 11/21/2003 3:20:30 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
thicker is better for the long haul

Thanks! I signed up to be a member, newsletters too.

Will help in my job.

Danny

P.S. I use Castrol 10w-30 in my BOV's. Every 3K.

Posted: 11/21/2003 3:39:51 PM EDT

[#19]

Modern engines will run a LONG time on 10w30 mineral oil. Synthetic IS better and is less susceptable to acid formation, therefore the longer calendar life. It also extends the milage life. Synthetic rear axle oil (90w) is miraculous stuff! Ford actually raised the GVW rating based only on oil change.

SOme years ago, GM had a bulletin out that was hard on 10w40 oils. IIRC the additive package that gave the better hot viscosity (40) added dramatically to deposits in ring grooves and other places.

An oil film of adequate strength is all that is required. Viscosity is vastly over rated. Most top end drag cars use 0w oil. In the Top Fuel engine I used to work on we used stright 30W - mineral oil. 10 years ago, Indy cars used 30w Pennzoil. Mucho snake oil and hocus pocus in the oil commentary business!!!!!!!

You should see the watery thin oil we use in the helicopter. Full synthetic, very thin, (looks like 5w) change at 100 hours (~10,000 miles). Engine is worth $100k+ for OH, expected life (TBO) is 1800 hours, nearly 180,000 miles! (And that is because of turbine wheels, NOT bearings)! N1 turns 58,000 RPM at 100% power. Thing doesn't even use an oil filter, just a fine mesh screen about 1" diameter, 2 1/2" long. Wash and re-use IIRC.

Posted: 11/21/2003 3:49:46 PM EDT

[#20]

An oil film of adequate strength is all that is required. Viscosity is vastly over rated. Most top end drag cars use 0w oil. In the Top Fuel engine I used to work on we used stright 30W - mineral oil. 10 years ago, Indy cars used 30w Pennzoil.

Not being a NASCAR fan or NASCAR mech. don't they have "fresh" oil in every car during the race ????, a little different than a guy running it for 3000 -5000 miles. And --- aren't most the engines worked on before and after each race, not a good comparison. As for additive sludge problem , it was a problem with older oils, new additive packages have made the problem non-existent.

Posted: 11/21/2003 4:05:30 PM EDT

[#21]

I've heard WAY too many real life testimonials from car/truck/motorcycle guys to not think synthetic is the way to go.

I love hearing about the older non-computer controlled engines having to turn the idle way down after going to Amsoil.

Another Amsoil story is about a fellow who rebuilt his motorcycle engine between every race, now with Amsoil synthetic, he rebuilds it every 3 races.

I can't wait to finally break my new engine in so I can switch to Amsoil oil and oil filters.

That means one oil change a year(25K or one year), and 2 filters(every 6 months or 12500 miles) a year and my engine will still be spotless at 100K.

Move along people.

Posted: 11/21/2003 4:14:21 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I've heard WAY too many real life testimonials from car/truck/motorcycle guys to not think synthetic is the way to go.

I love hearing about the older non-computer controlled engines having to turn the idle way down after going to Amsoil.

Another Amsoil story is about a fellow who rebuilt his motorcycle engine between every race, now with Amsoil synthetic, he rebuilds it every 3 races.

I can't wait to finally break my new engine in so I can switch to Amsoil oil and oil filters.

That means one oil change a year(25K or one year), and 2 filters(every 6 months or 12500 miles) a year and my engine will still be spotless at 100K.

Move along people.

Just send it in for a analysis (costs 20.00) and make sure all is ok.

What most here do not know is Castrol went to court to be able to say their oil was a syn. oil and it is just a 10 percent blend of syn. oil, Mobil 1 took them to court on it then said Fuck it, and got out of the court issue. It is because of that bastard company that you really have to know what oil is syn. and what oil is a blend that claims it is a syn. oil. Fuck Castrol.

Posted: 11/21/2003 4:27:09 PM EDT

[#23]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion but I like castrol for the dino oil.

Mobil 1, royle purple, and amsoil seem to be the big 3 of syn oils.

Usually sending the oil in is for by-pass filter setup but it's always a good idea to know what's going on in your engine.

Posted: 11/21/2003 4:31:49 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion but I like castrol for the dino oil.

Mobil 1, royle purple, and amsoil seem to be the big 3 of syn oils.

Usually sending the oil in is for by-pass filter setup but it's always a good idea to know what's going on in your engine.

Sure Castrol has good dino oil, no beefs with it, but their syn. oil is a ten percent blend and opened the door for false calims of syn. oil from other companies. And a lot have jumped on it, so when you buy syn. oil you need to know a lot about oil groups 3, 4, and a whole slew of shit just to be sure your gettin a real syn. oil like Mobil 1

edit:I have over simplified the explanation, because the explanation is so complex that even Mobil 1 had to say the hell with it.

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