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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/17/2001 8:51:06 AM EDT
I need opinions on Diesel pick ups before I go in debt $35,000. I am considering the Duramax or the Cummins. I have driven both and I like them equally well. I am kind of leaning towards the Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab with the 6 speed as it appears more durable with better ground clearance. My dad has a new GMC Duramax. Nice truck, real comfortable, fast and powerful. But, it is expensive and the ground clearance sucks. Thanks, Karl
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:08:43 AM EDT
Have you looked at the Power Strokes? I like the PS in my F250 much better than I like the Cummins. Haven't tried the Duramax yet.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:25:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2001 9:23:36 AM EDT by cpermd]
Going by technical data the new Isuzu Duramax for sale in the GMC and Chevy is by far the most advanced.And it is an ISUZU.You will not hear me say anything bad about the Dodge or Ford though.I have bought three of the GMC in the last three months and they have begun OK.We generally get 300,000 and 400,00 miles from the Diesels at my firm before a rebuild.They average 20,000 miles a month.Be sure and take care of the fuel filter,water separator,and always use filtered fuel.And even add another inline filter and water separator to make you feel better.Good fuel and air and they will go a damn many miles. cpermd Crap I forgot to add that the Fuel systems inside the V on the Ford and GMC kind of make me worry because of the Heat generated.Oh well only had one Ford screw up so far and that was at 224,00 miles.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:32:21 AM EDT
I know that all of the diesel motors are good and reliable if serviced properly with perhaps the Cummins being the most time proven. The Duramax is too new to know anything yet. I must admit that I am a GMC fan and have bad luck with Ford. My real question is: Are there any problems that you all can think of with the other components of the Truck besides the motor that I should be aware of? I have already been told that the new Dodges have brake problems, the GMC's are VERY electronic and who knows yet what could go wrong with them, and the Ford's have transmission problems (especially automatic). Karl
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:39:01 AM EDT
The Dodge Ram 2500 is not new.. it's the same model as pervious years.. I bought a New Ram 1500 in June.. it's been great so far, not a single complaint about it. Also, a friend got a 2002 2500 with the cummins.. he loves it also..
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:49:10 AM EDT
Haven't had any troubles with the Cummins engine on my 98 Dodge RAM 3500. But the dealer has zapped the computer several times that has caused problems, but then they re-zap it and its good to go. Also, the 24 valve Cummins don't have glow plugs and you know your engine is running vs. the Powerstoke engines. Back in 98 when I bought the Dodge I looked at the Ford, was nice and all but couldn't get over the engine. I still remember that Powerstoke = Powercroak (because the engines where always breaking down at the worst possible time).
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:52:49 AM EDT
My GMCs have had no problems,I like the 4 discs. 78,000 miles on them so far. We have four Fords and the rear brakes have had to have work a few times and one tranny-a 5 speed manual with a granny low had to be rebuilt.The Dodges need an injector if you don't do the things I listed above.If you want something that will do the work these things will it will cost some $$$$ every year and you better budget for it. That said the next few years here will see either GMC with the Isuzu or Dodge with the new Mercedes diesel. cpermd cpermd
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:54:42 AM EDT
My dad has a '91 dodge 250 cummins 4x4 long box. He bought it new and has loved it ever since. Last year he had a buddy who owns a muffler shop put a 3inch straight pipe directly off the turbo; now it gets about 23-24 mpg!! If you want a great cummins, look for the models that have the 12 valve mechanical engine. They are harder to find, but it can be tuned a lot easier and is very powerful and very reliable.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:56:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: If you want something that will do the work these things will it will cost some $$$$ every year and you better budget for it. cpermd cpermd
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Seriously, what kind of stuff needs to be done to them?
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 9:58:55 AM EDT
Plus you need to budget a Rockford Fosgate stereo system to hear the radio over the engine.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 10:00:14 AM EDT
They stink, but only while they're running [:D]
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 10:09:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2001 10:05:15 AM EDT by Claybuster]
I have two Dodge Cummins at work that get the shit beat out of them hauling trailers/loads into remote, high altitude sites in the sierra nevada. One carries a loaded utility body with welder and inverter. Good trucks but with a few flaws. Poor brakes, no doubt. They heat up easily and, when hot, are worthless. The front end needs some work also. Driving on dirt roads at 50-60 mph and coming into some washboard the steering becomes ineffective due to the 'hop' making the axle essentially airborne. Bad mojo! I religiously have scheduled maintenance done and these trucks are in surprisingly good shape for their miles (60K and 115K). I know nothing of the Chevy's but have heard anecdotal negatives from two previously hard core chevy fans. Poor manual tranny, too expensive and the like. Nothing mechanical. I drive a Ford diesel and LOVE IT!!!! Don't get the auto tranny, though. More bad mojo. I've had to have my rear brakes serviced, under warranty, after they acquired a shudder at off ramp speeds. No other problems, though. Really, I don't think you'd go wrong with any of them unless you treat them the way I treat my work trucks. Good luck. CB Edited to point out that the only one that is really so noisy that it interferes with listening to the radio, ala SS109, is the Cummins. The other two are relatively quiet inside.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 10:18:13 AM EDT
Cummins diesel is the answer.I own 2, 91 has 489,000 miles nothing ever has broken. Has went through many sets of brakes and tires and several batteries. Second truck is 94 model 246,000 miles nothing ever replaced but brakes and tires again as well as 2 batteries. Thats a total of 735,000 trouble free miles. I can reccoment these trucks to anyone.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 11:22:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cummins_4x4: Cummins diesel is the answer.I own 2, 91 has 489,000 miles nothing ever has broken. Has went through many sets of brakes and tires and several batteries. Second truck is 94 model 246,000 miles nothing ever replaced but brakes and tires again as well as 2 batteries. Thats a total of 735,000 trouble free miles. I can reccoment these trucks to anyone.
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Right on brother!
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 11:33:33 AM EDT
ARben When I say stuff,I mean maintenance,filters,separarators etc.Nothing more. I do have my personal truck set up with pipes,bigger intercooler,bigger turbo and a larger fuel pump and lines.Definitely voided the warranty. cpermd
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 11:37:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: ARben When I say stuff,I mean maintenance,filters,separarators etc.Nothing more. I do have my personal truck set up with pipes,bigger intercooler,bigger turbo and a larger fuel pump and lines.Definitely voided the warranty. cpermd
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Ok, thanks. The maintenance on our cummins has been less than most of our cars, but it doesn't get beat on too hard.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 11:40:25 AM EDT
I've got a F250 Powerstroke diesel and really love it. Without a doubt the Powerstroke is the best diesel you will find in a pickup. Check out these diesel web sites for more info: [url]http://www.ford-diesel.com/[/url] [url]http://www.diesel-central.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 4:02:15 PM EDT
My thoughts on the subject are as follows: The Duramax seems like a very powerful engine. A guy at work borrowed a K2500HD w/Duramax & Allison to haul his Busch-car trailer around, and said he'd NEVER driven a truck with that much power before. I don't know how much the typical enclosed Busch-car trailer weighs, but he said it felt like the trailer wasn't back there. Plus, he got a chance to check out the Allisno's retarder (they forgot the trailer brake control on the normal tow vehicle) and he said he only had to touch the brakes [b]once[/b] - on a hairpin turn while coming down the Kancamagus highway through the White Mountains. Possible drawbacks to the Duramax include head gasket problems due to differential expansion between the cast iron block and aluminum heads, and too much electronics for my taste. The Bosch common-rail fuel system is a proven design, though. I personally wouldn't plunk down $40K or more for one, until I began hearing of owners reaching 250K miles or so in 3-5 years, with no problems. Cat/Cummins/Navistar reliability shouldn't be beyond reach. The Powerstroke is another great engine, although some people I know who have them say they feel different than the old 7.3L when driving - it's more of a long smooth acceleration than a sharp snap when you step on it. But, I also know people who say the PSD pulls like nothing they've ever seen in a light truck. It's definitely a time-proven design, but did you know that the PD's ultimate ancestors were 2 IHC gas engines - the MV404 and MV446? I'm not saying this to cast any doubt on the 6.9L, 7.3L, or PSD's reliability, it's just an anecdote I always bring up to bust the balls of anyone who might want to mouth off about my never-been-a-gasser GM 6.2L [:D] Possible problems on the PSD are the $4K price tag to replace 8 injectors, and cavitation problems due to the wet sleeves. Use a coolant filter/conditioner like the big rigs do and you won't have to worry about it. The Cummins is, IMO, probably the best engine of the 3. It's also the easiest to work on, due to the I6 configuration which puts everything within reach. No need to yank the intake in order to get the pump out on this baby! In stock form it makes less power than any of the other 2, but you can beef it up to get close to 400hp and 850+ lb-ft torque @ 1600-2000rpm, and still have a motor that will go 1/2 million miles. I've heard of them being run at 40psi boost and 1400 degree EGTs (pre-turbine) without any adverse effects. The only possible bad points about the Cummins that I can think of are its narrow powerband that requires a lot of shifting (hardly an issue with the 6-speed) and the noise. There are about as many high-performance parts for this engine as there are for the small-block Chevy, so if you have the money, the underhood room, and the skills (or a friend who welds and machines) then you can make this engine do whatever you want.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 4:26:43 PM EDT
I was told today that Dodge lost the contract of Cummins to Ford. If that is the case, then I do not want to buy a Dodge if parts will be difficult to aquire on an older truck many years down the road. Maybe that Duramax isn't that bad after all! Karl
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 5:16:04 PM EDT
NH2112 If you have a Powerstroke w/wet sleeves,your the only one. And the guy with "pipes"on a diesel ? Comeon guys, pipes are for 2 strokes.A "bigger turbo and intercooler" ? The stock ones will make enough boost with a chip to blow the ring lands out . Not to flame anyone,but some people here read too many magazines. Ive had ford diesels since 83 [the first one they built, and its still running]. The 2k Im driveing now is at 46k and the only thing its been back for was a busted light switch.Run synthetic everywhere, including the auto trans , and it will run a hell of a lot longer than you will want to drive it. The duramax may turn out to be as long haul good as the psd or cumalong, but noone will know for 3 or 4 years ,will they? The cumalong is a great engine,Ive got a 555 Black Max in my motorhome with about 330k onthe clock, but it is noisy as hell compared to the psd. Of course so is the 83 6.9 , but its not 83 any more is it ? Just my 02, I havent owned a gasser since 1973 when I swapped a DH 478 ToroFlow GMC into my 1970 F260 4x4. The psd and Dodge are both good, Id just rather not do any consumer r&d for GM
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 5:41:58 PM EDT
i don't have much personal experience with them myself. but my dad has been driving the FORD powerstroke (what a name!) forever! and nobody treats his trucks like a work truck like my dad. he's in construction and the truck gets lots of use that way. but on a more personal note, my dad also uses it to haul his racehorses (and trailriders for me!) around. i've seen him outpace a passenger car on the highway fully loaded with horses and gear UPHILL! so the trucks take a beating. and he's not one for on-the-dot maintenance, though he's never not taken care of them. the only reason he he's got a new one is that the previous one was stolen! never heard any complaints from him.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 5:45:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trbomax: NH2112 If you have a Powerstroke w/wet sleeves,your the only one.
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You're right, and I shouldn't have confused wet sleeves with the water jacket. May my injector pump lose its prime overnight for the next 10 days! May both my fuel tanks gel solid every time we have a snowstorm! But I believe the PSD does have, or has had, a problem with cavitation pitting the water jacket and eventually popping through the cylinder if left unchecked.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 5:52:00 PM EDT
My buddy just broke down and bought a Duramax. All I can say is WOW!!! 0% financing and our supplier discount really saved him a ton-o-$. Sound wise, it is so much more quieter that any of the other ones out there. The only thing you can hear really bad is wheel noise, no engine at all at 60mph. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the new Allison tranny. What a brute. It has a PTO takeoff built into it too! You also get a tranny temp gage with it. The filter for it is huge. Tell you this: he has already put it in 4WD and got all 4 tires squeeling at once. This thing is a real pulling beast. The whole truck just feels like a more solid ride compared to other trucks I have rode in. Around where I live, there are alot of guys who make their living pulling 5th wheels out of the RV factories and they are all switching over to the GMs now. A friend of the family makes his living maintaining these and putting Cummins and Perkins deisels in GMs to pull with and after taking a ride in the new Duramax on Sat. he was heard saying that his business will suffur for this one. BTW: I'm a big Dodge fan too, but this one is a real winner if you can find one. I'm pretty sure you will be seeing some kind of European diesel in the upcoming Dodges real soon.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 5:58:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shadowsabre: Sound wise, it is so much more quieter that any of the other ones out there. The only thing you can hear really bad is wheel noise, no engine at all at 60mph.
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am i the only one who actually likes the rumble of the diesel?
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 6:00:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2001 6:07:34 PM EDT by e8ght]
That point on theft was a good one. Get a Club. My '92 K2500 was stolen too. *-*#s didn't keep it though. [:(!] If they had, I might have saved about $10K rebuilding most of the front end (4x4, so extra $ there) and replacing the tranny, various cooling system parts, troubleshooting electrical gremlins, starter, water pump (Is there really ANY reason why one should need a special factory tool to take off a flipping water pump??), and currently dealing with a pinhole leak in the rad. Did I mention the rust holes? Started from the inside, they did. Fuel leak, door panel pull handles coming off, fuel tank door standoff fell off one day, passenger seat collapsed under my dog's weight (factory footed the bill for that one), u-joints, wheel bearings, brakes, caliper, disks, cv joint boot, trans cooler (heavy duty package doncha know), radio. Doors misaligned, service depots have tried to fix it twice, I'm not spending another dime - the door stops fell off one by one, so the doors don't hold themselves open anymore. Dead cabin light, dead running lights on the visor. Edited 'cuz I forgot that both door pulls are broken - I replaced both when I bought it and they both broke again after about three months. Edited again to complain that I've tried about three GM dealers and several others, and the only one who knew anything about diesel ripped me off replacing a battery that was only a week old. Though they did eventually fix the problem... two weeks later, when they fixed the starter. That's all since 97 when I bought it. 290K KMs total, about 100 expensive KMs for me. I now have three rules: 1) Don't buy GM trucks 2) Don't buy automatic diesels and 3) Work on it yourself 'cuz the guy at the dealership last saw a diesel sometime before Monica Lewinsky got famous. Friend of mine bought a '95 Cummins at the same time - did brakes, filters - normal maintenance stuff only - and chipped it for a big boost in power and torque. WITH the chipped increase, he had at least 50% more power than I at no penalty in fuel mileage. Also, his oil stayed clean between changes despite hundreds of thousands of KMs on the engine! Liked it so much he upgraded to a loaded '98 when he could afford it. Cummins is THE engine. The truck is OK too, but that engine will outlast the truck.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 6:28:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By e8ght: That point on theft was a good one. Get a Club. My '92 K2500 was stolen too. *-*#s didn't keep it though. [:(!]
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maybe, but my dad's was a little different. he lives in the boonies and leaves the keys in the truck. some of my step-brother's friends came over. one had his cousin from outta town visiting. later that night they heard the truck start up (built-in alarm?). dad thought they were just moving the truck to play b-ball. woke up the next morning and it was gone! bummer.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 6:35:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady:
Originally Posted By Shadowsabre: Sound wise, it is so much more quieter that any of the other ones out there. The only thing you can hear really bad is wheel noise, no engine at all at 60mph.
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am i the only one who actually likes the rumble of the diesel?
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I honestly can say I always loved the sound my dad's cummins would make as he rolled into the parking lot at my school to give me a ride. The sounds of the turbos slowing just made you wanna' give the Tim Allen grunt. Some kids thought it was cool if their ride was a sleek camaro, but that dodge just was friggin awesome! There is no better feeling than being on the open road with a diesal and a light load.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 6:58:30 PM EDT
I'll never own gas again. I have heard the comment of Dodge that it is a great engine in a mediocre truck. no arguement there, seen more than one Dodge with a blown tranny from too much torque for the driveline. Ford? Enough said. The 7.3/PSD is a school bus engine, more than adequate for the purpose. The electronics in Fords have a reputation for trouble, and we had it too with my former boss's vans. My own truck is an older Chevy with a 6.2. It may be slow, but it is as complicated as a hammer, simple to repair, and not unduly noisy.
Link Posted: 10/17/2001 8:57:44 PM EDT
The guys at work are always complaining about the Cummins in the buses (Blue Birds). Leak this, leak that....... but those are medium duty engines. I'm a Ford person. If not Ford, then Dodge. Chevy.....I'll buy a GMC first (okay, same company). They are all good engines. As long as you treat it good, they'll treat you good. I'd take a Cat personally, but you can't get a Cat in the pickups.... to bad. Ah...... 3208 powered C8000 Ford ('new' used purchase). Go over to those diesel sites that were posted. Lots of info there.
Link Posted: 10/18/2001 2:18:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kaliburz: I'd take a Cat personally, but you can't get a Cat in the pickups.... to bad. Ah...... 3208 powered C8000 Ford ('new' used purchase).
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The Cat 3126 is available in F450 and bigger Super Duties, and that fact alone would make me seriously consider the 450! The 5.9L Cummins is available as well.
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