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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/4/2006 10:47:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 10:48:15 AM EDT by barkley-addict]
are some mos's more ethical than others? Obviously there would be good in being a chaplin or a medic, but what about combat positions?
How would you feel about, or what would your opinion be, of being a christian and a sniper?
..
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 7:13:51 PM EDT
My 10-foot pole (as in, "I wouldn't touch that one . . . ) is no where long enough to come near this one. Especially, not on this site . . .
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 7:54:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
are some mos's more ethical than others? Obviously there would be good in being a chaplin or a medic, but what about combat positions?
How would you feel about, or what would your opinion be, of being a christian and a sniper?
..



Depends on if said "christian" puts god before country, or country before god.

What about the "christian" who's "non-combat" MOS (say, truck driving) puts them in the position of having to defend themselves.


Of course, it also depends on the "christian" 's attitude toward those they're fighting. There were no shortage of "christians" willing to go kill muslims in the crusades.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:42:50 AM EDT
There is absolutely nothing 'anti-Christian' about defending your nation, even to the point of taking an enemy solder's life.

And there is nothing particularly 'Christian' about refusing to do so.

You may be a genuine Christian and refuse to defend your country.

What might befall your country afterwards, might change your mind.

By then, however, it would be too late.

Eric The(OnwardChristianSoldiers)Hun
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:47:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 7:48:18 AM EDT by scuba_ed]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
There is absolutely nothing 'anti-Christian' about defending your nation, even to the point of taking an enemy solder's life.

And there is nothing particularly 'Christian' about refusing to do so.

You may be a genuine Christian and refuse to defend your country.

What might befall your country afterwards, might change your mind.

By then, however, it would be too late.

Eric The(OnwardChristianSoldiers)Hun



__

Hi Eric. A good example of this would be Sgt. Calvin York, who struggled with this dilemma as well.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:30:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Hi Eric. A good example of this would be Sgt. Calvin York, who struggled with this dilemma as well.

Yes, indeed, I appreciate what Sgt. York's original views were said to have been, but thankfully, he was disabused of those notions.

Had he continued in his former belief, it's not that I would have faulted him, but we all know that we would never have heard further from him, or about him.

And, as we all know, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing.

Eric The(SaltThatHasLostItsSavour)Hun
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:31:24 AM EDT
I had no issues.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:35:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
but what about combat positions?
How would you feel about, or what would your opinion be, of being a christian and a sniper?
..



I was a 13A - forward observer and had no problem with it.

try ocf.gospelcom.net/

wganz
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:44:59 AM EDT
In a combat zone everyone believes in something.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:39:24 AM EDT

Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?"
He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely—be content with your pay." (Luke 3:14)



These soldiers came to John the Baptist asking his counsel.

To paraphrase, he told them to act honorably and don't complain about what you volunteered for.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:41:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?"
He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely—be content with your pay." (Luke 3:14)



These soldiers came to John the Baptist asking his counsel.

To paraphrase, he told them to act honorably and don't complain about what you volunteered for.



The KJV phrases it differently:

Lu 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.


But again, I'm not touching this one. You can read into that verse whatever you like . . .
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:33:04 AM EDT
3:14 Then some soldiers also asked him, “And as for us—what should we do?” He told them, “Take money from no one by violence or by false accusation(*), and be content with your pay.”

(*) Or “Rob no one.” The term diaseivshte (diaseishte) here refers to “shaking someone.” In this context it refers to taking financial advantage of someone through violence, so it refers essentially to robbery.

From the New English Translation
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:14:33 PM EDT
I was an atheist when I was in the Army. I always thought it was strange to have folks who considered themselves Christians to be in the infantry. I dont mean the ones who call themselves Christians because they were simply born into it, I mean those who it was a matter of choice to be a Christian.

I always admired their dedication to something I thought was silly but they were mature people and other than that they believed in what I thought to be a myth, they were good soldiers.

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:30:13 PM EDT
Alvin York.

Alvin... Not Calvin.

I would have more to say, but when the KJV quotes start slinging out of context, that's my cue to exit.

That is all.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:43:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 9:45:04 PM EDT by FightingHellfish]
A basic question for you to ask yourself would be if you support the idea that war can be right and just. Doesn't really matter what your job is, a mechanic or clerk who supports the mission of the infantry is essentially doing the same thing (morally) as the guy actually pulling the trigger.

The biggest concern you'll really encounter is the general lifestyle of the soldiers you'll meet. Military people are fundamentally very conservative, but the off duty lifestyle of young soldiers is very much centered on drinking and chasing pussy, and the culture and language is profane and irreverent.

The Army has been rated NC-17 for language, violence and some sexual content.

That's going to be your biggest concern.

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:58:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 10:01:27 PM EDT by 1IV]
Ok, I can field this one.

I was involved with a spirit filled church after I joined the Marines. I got saved, Yada Yada..... Then the attempted brainwashing..." God comands thou shalt not kill.... Yada yada..." The spirit of god demands that you only kill as a last resort.... Yada Yada.." , " Christ did not defend himself when persecuted.....Yada Yada."

Most of the people saying this shi& were well meaning, but were reading the bible to rationalize their pasivism. They were nonconfrontational, eager to pleas spineless morphing bible thumpers more concerned with getting everyones approval than actual truth.

I left that sureal experience believing in Christ, but singularly dissatisfied with those feel good christians. They were victims looking for a crime. Volunteers.

I now believe that any reasonable person should respond to violence with violence. A snipers job is no different, except that a sniper uses his "gifts" to be shure.

Killing is a natural effect of violence. God has no comandment against defence of agression. The turn the other cheek thing is about personal interaction between church goers, not about fighting.

Ethical? War is not ethical. It has no honor. The only thing to honor in war is what your fighting for, and your way of life. People often make the mistake of thinking that soldiers that are good at their jobs are barbarians with rifles. It is not true. Ruthless killers do not last long on a true battlefield. They draw attention to themselves, and rifles take alot of the skill out of killing a man.

I was trying to think of an example of good warriors you might be able to connect with as "Christian" in their attitudes. And the only good representation of one is that Delta guy from blackhawk down. The one who makes it back from the stadium. Or even better the two snipers who go in to help the second blackhawk crew get to safety. They sacrifice their lives to give the pilot a chance.
That is pretty christian.

There is no greater love than this:That a man should give his life for that of another.

If you find your self serving your country in a war zone and fighting. You are putting your ass on the line for the sake of others. You are sacrificing yourself for your brothers who might be killed if you dont drop Haji with his RPG at 500 Metres. It is about Stopping. Not killing.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:18:44 PM EDT
Rev 21: 1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



Assuming for a moment that these verses describe the wind up, when God's order will be restored, then I think it's pretty clear that in the great scheme of things there will be no place for war in God's perfect kingdom. Of course, that hasn't happened yet and we live in the here and now. Still, it's good to remember what the ideal is.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:51:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
A basic question for you to ask yourself would be if you support the idea that war can be right and just. Doesn't really matter what your job is, a mechanic or clerk who supports the mission of the infantry is essentially doing the same thing (morally) as the guy actually pulling the trigger.

The biggest concern you'll really encounter is the general lifestyle of the soldiers you'll meet. Military people are fundamentally very conservative, but the off duty lifestyle of young soldiers is very much centered on drinking and chasing pussy, and the culture and language is profane and irreverent.

The Army has been rated NC-17 for language, violence and some sexual content.

That's going to be your biggest concern.




Thats the biggest reason my military asperations went on hold for the current moment. I desperately want to serve my country, but I was very worried about the lifestyle. It came down between the Fire service and the Marines, but its Gods will for me to go Fire/EMS for the current moment. I may still do military in the future, but not until God says im ready.

If you do choose to go .mil more power to you! Its very honerable, but dont relax your Christain values trying to fit in.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:54:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
There is absolutely nothing 'anti-Christian' about defending your nation, even to the point of taking an enemy solder's life.

And there is nothing particularly 'Christian' about refusing to do so.

You may be a genuine Christian and refuse to defend your country.

What might befall your country afterwards, might change your mind.

By then, however, it would be too late.

Eric The(OnwardChristianSoldiers)Hun

well said
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:09:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
A basic question for you to ask yourself would be if you support the idea that war can be right and just. Doesn't really matter what your job is, a mechanic or clerk who supports the mission of the infantry is essentially doing the same thing (morally) as the guy actually pulling the trigger.

The biggest concern you'll really encounter is the general lifestyle of the soldiers you'll meet. Military people are fundamentally very conservative, but the off duty lifestyle of young soldiers is very much centered on drinking and chasing pussy, and the culture and language is profane and irreverent.

The Army has been rated NC-17 for language, violence and some sexual content.

That's going to be your biggest concern.




Thats the biggest reason my military asperations went on hold for the current moment. I desperately want to serve my country, but I was very worried about the lifestyle. It came down between the Fire service and the Marines, but its Gods will for me to go Fire/EMS for the current moment. I may still do military in the future, but not until God says im ready.

If you do choose to go .mil more power to you! Its very honerable, but dont relax your Christain values trying to fit in.



+1

That is one of the biggest things that is preventing me from joining the USMC or Army. Is any branch or MOS better in this regard than others? Would I be better off in the Reserves or National Guard? I don't want to give into that kind of lifestyle, but I also don't want to be ridiculed/outcast/hated by everyone else during my entire enlistment.

I don't suppose other servicemen will simply accept my beliefs and allow me to be a non-participant in certain practices and leave it at that...
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
A basic question for you to ask yourself would be if you support the idea that war can be right and just. Doesn't really matter what your job is, a mechanic or clerk who supports the mission of the infantry is essentially doing the same thing (morally) as the guy actually pulling the trigger.

The biggest concern you'll really encounter is the general lifestyle of the soldiers you'll meet. Military people are fundamentally very conservative, but the off duty lifestyle of young soldiers is very much centered on drinking and chasing pussy, and the culture and language is profane and irreverent.

The Army has been rated NC-17 for language, violence and some sexual content.

That's going to be your biggest concern.




Thats the biggest reason my military asperations went on hold for the current moment. I desperately want to serve my country, but I was very worried about the lifestyle. It came down between the Fire service and the Marines, but its Gods will for me to go Fire/EMS for the current moment. I may still do military in the future, but not until God says im ready.

If you do choose to go .mil more power to you! Its very honerable, but dont relax your Christain values trying to fit in.



+1

That is one of the biggest things that is preventing me from joining the USMC or Army. Is any branch or MOS better in this regard than others? Would I be better off in the Reserves or National Guard? I don't want to give into that kind of lifestyle, but I also don't want to be ridiculed/outcast/hated by everyone else during my entire enlistment.

I don't suppose other servicemen will simply accept my beliefs and allow me to be a non-participant in certain practices and leave it at that...



I'd bet my life saving sthat the average college dorm is more "NC-17" than a military unit. Yet somehowho libs like to dwell on things like reprted secual assualts in the military, and never statistically compare them to the largest assembly of peole in the same basic age group elsewhere - colleges. The same holds true for people now talking about the whole "Lifestyle" thing.

So, let me get this straight. You "morally upstanding" folks are staying with mommy and daddy, because the rough language and behaviors of the meanies in the Army disturb you. Meanwhile, other folks are just simple signing up and fighting the biggest threat to our civilization since Communism. OK, maybe they say, "fuck" every once in a while. Heck, I say it every time I stub my toe.

How does running in fear of hearing a bad word from a fellow soldier make you so morally superior again?

Never use your religion as an excuse for cowardice, or it will become a crutch the rest of your life.

Meanwhile, the heathen US Army will take care of itself.


Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:51:25 PM EDT
Read the treatise by Martin Luther, written in 1526 called: WHETHER SOLDIERS, TOO, CAN BE SAVED. (I can email it to you, or you can find it on the internet or in the library.) It's a great exposition of this question. In short Christians may serve in all civil offices, be they military, L.E., judicial. Christians are fully citizens of two kingdoms, the kingdom of earth, and the kingdom of God. Chaplain
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:09:32 PM EDT
I dont think I would have a problem. It would be no different than being infantry, still "killing". I get where your going- Emotional balance thing....TC 23-14 JUNE 1989: Sniper Training and Employment pg. 1-7 Talks about Emotional Balance and being able to deliberately kill targets that may not pose an immediate threat to him.

Some non-christians might not be able to do this job, depends on what kind of person you are.

Just my $.02
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:30:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 6:31:04 PM EDT by OBird]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
A basic question for you to ask yourself would be if you support the idea that war can be right and just. Doesn't really matter what your job is, a mechanic or clerk who supports the mission of the infantry is essentially doing the same thing (morally) as the guy actually pulling the trigger.

The biggest concern you'll really encounter is the general lifestyle of the soldiers you'll meet. Military people are fundamentally very conservative, but the off duty lifestyle of young soldiers is very much centered on drinking and chasing pussy, and the culture and language is profane and irreverent.

The Army has been rated NC-17 for language, violence and some sexual content.

That's going to be your biggest concern.




Thats the biggest reason my military asperations went on hold for the current moment. I desperately want to serve my country, but I was very worried about the lifestyle. It came down between the Fire service and the Marines, but its Gods will for me to go Fire/EMS for the current moment. I may still do military in the future, but not until God says im ready.

If you do choose to go .mil more power to you! Its very honerable, but dont relax your Christain values trying to fit in.



+1

That is one of the biggest things that is preventing me from joining the USMC or Army. Is any branch or MOS better in this regard than others? Would I be better off in the Reserves or National Guard? I don't want to give into that kind of lifestyle, but I also don't want to be ridiculed/outcast/hated by everyone else during my entire enlistment.

I don't suppose other servicemen will simply accept my beliefs and allow me to be a non-participant in certain practices and leave it at that...



I'd bet my life saving sthat the average college dorm is more "NC-17" than a military unit. Yet somehowho libs like to dwell on things like reprted secual assualts in the military, and never statistically compare them to the largest assembly of peole in the same basic age group elsewhere - colleges. The same holds true for people now talking about the whole "Lifestyle" thing.

So, let me get this straight. You "morally upstanding" folks are staying with mommy and daddy, because the rough language and behaviors of the meanies in the Army disturb you. Meanwhile, other folks are just simple signing up and fighting the biggest threat to our civilization since Communism. OK, maybe they say, "fuck" every once in a while. Heck, I say it every time I stub my toe.

How does running in fear of hearing a bad word from a fellow soldier make you so morally superior again?

Never use your religion as an excuse for cowardice, or it will become a crutch the rest of your life.

Meanwhile, the heathen US Army will take care of itself.





No, no, you misunderstand. I am not overly concerned with simply being exposed to sinful activites. If being exposed to the word "****" bothered me, I wouldn't hang out here, now would I?

Sin is nearly omnipresent on earth, there's really no way to totally avoid it. We can, however, choose not to partake in it, which IS what I'm concerned about: that if my beliefes and my choices to abstain from drunkeness, porn, etc, would turn my life into a living hell. My fear is that the servicemen I'd be working with would constantly ridicule, shun, or torment me based on my unusual habit of avoiding practices many would consider relatively normal (like drinking, getting laid outside of marriage, etc.). I would prefer not to spend my entire enlistment being hated by everybody around me for doing nothing wrong. If I were shunned because I was a jerk, lazy, etc, then that's understandable, but not just for beliefs of mine that don't conflict with other's interests. If I joined the military, I'd accept the responsibility of fighting enemy combatants, but I would like to take that heavy responsibility knowing I will have at least some support from behind, too. Having people try to kill you on one side and being totally shunned on the other would be a bit too much for me.

If, however, the majority of servicemen I would potentially be serving with would really not care about what I do or don't do, and could respect my decisions to avoid certain behaviors and activites, it's a completely different story. In that case, this potential concern that I have voiced would be more or less a non-issue. All I'm asking here is if this could be the case, if I really would have mainly nothing to worry about in this regard (which is what I'm guessing). That's all I'm saying.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:52:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
A basic question for you to ask yourself would be if you support the idea that war can be right and just. Doesn't really matter what your job is, a mechanic or clerk who supports the mission of the infantry is essentially doing the same thing (morally) as the guy actually pulling the trigger.

The biggest concern you'll really encounter is the general lifestyle of the soldiers you'll meet. Military people are fundamentally very conservative, but the off duty lifestyle of young soldiers is very much centered on drinking and chasing pussy, and the culture and language is profane and irreverent.

The Army has been rated NC-17 for language, violence and some sexual content.

That's going to be your biggest concern.




Thats the biggest reason my military asperations went on hold for the current moment. I desperately want to serve my country, but I was very worried about the lifestyle. It came down between the Fire service and the Marines, but its Gods will for me to go Fire/EMS for the current moment. I may still do military in the future, but not until God says im ready.

If you do choose to go .mil more power to you! Its very honerable, but dont relax your Christain values trying to fit in.



+1

That is one of the biggest things that is preventing me from joining the USMC or Army. Is any branch or MOS better in this regard than others? Would I be better off in the Reserves or National Guard? I don't want to give into that kind of lifestyle, but I also don't want to be ridiculed/outcast/hated by everyone else during my entire enlistment.

I don't suppose other servicemen will simply accept my beliefs and allow me to be a non-participant in certain practices and leave it at that...



I'd bet my life saving sthat the average college dorm is more "NC-17" than a military unit. Yet somehowho libs like to dwell on things like reprted secual assualts in the military, and never statistically compare them to the largest assembly of peole in the same basic age group elsewhere - colleges. The same holds true for people now talking about the whole "Lifestyle" thing.

So, let me get this straight. You "morally upstanding" folks are staying with mommy and daddy, because the rough language and behaviors of the meanies in the Army disturb you. Meanwhile, other folks are just simple signing up and fighting the biggest threat to our civilization since Communism. OK, maybe they say, "fuck" every once in a while. Heck, I say it every time I stub my toe.

How does running in fear of hearing a bad word from a fellow soldier make you so morally superior again?

Never use your religion as an excuse for cowardice, or it will become a crutch the rest of your life.

Meanwhile, the heathen US Army will take care of itself.





No, no, you misunderstand. I am not overly concerned with simply being exposed to sinful activites. If being exposed to the word "****" bothered me, I wouldn't hang out here, now would I?

Sin is nearly omnipresent on earth, there's really no way to totally avoid it. We can, however, choose not to partake in it, which IS what I'm concerned about: that if my beliefes and my choices to abstain from drunkeness, porn, etc, would turn my life into a living hell. My fear is that the servicemen I'd be working with would constantly ridicule, shun, or torment me based on my unusual habit of avoiding practices many would consider relatively normal (like drinking, getting laid outside of marriage, etc.). I would prefer not to spend my entire enlistment being hated by everybody around me for doing nothing wrong. If I were shunned because I was a jerk, lazy, etc, then that's understandable, but not just for beliefs of mine that don't conflict with other's interests. If I joined the military, I'd accept the responsibility of fighting enemy combatants, but I would like to take that heavy responsibility knowing I will have at least some support from behind, too. Having people try to kill you on one side and being totally shunned on the other would be a bit too much for me.

If, however, the majority of servicemen I would potentially be serving with would really not care about what I do or don't do, and could respect my decisions to avoid certain behaviors and activites, it's a completely different story. In that case, this potential concern that I have voiced would be more or less a non-issue. All I'm asking here is if this could be the case, if I really would have mainly nothing to worry about in this regard (which is what I'm guessing). That's all I'm saying.





I was in the USMC Reserve for over a year before I left for this exact reason. Yes, I went AWOL. However, I was given an other than honorable discharge (thank God) and sent on my way.

The reason I left was because of the rampant immorality that was taking place around me. I am not a coward and I do miss serving my country, but I was constantly harrased and abused by the men around me. For me God comes first, my country second and I was not going to compromise on this.

On a daily basis my room was torn apart and my rack thrown into the hallway. My personal possessions would be scattered throughout the room and this happened every single day for two months during combat engineers school. I tried following the chain of command and it only brought more ridicule. Thankfully I had two other men who believed the same as myself and we formed a trio to support each other until we went home.

During my time at Courthouse Bay I saw many married men take off their wedding bands to "hook up" with female Marines. One Sgt. imparticular would take the same female Marine into her room two or three times a week while everyone was at the beer garden. Sometimes he wouldn't even remove his ring before they left to her room.

The year I spent in the Marines was a true test of my faith and I became closer to God than I ever had before. This isn't an attack on military personel as I know not everyone is like this. However, during my year in the Marines the only people I found that held the same beliefs as myself were the two men I mentioned earlier. When the rest of the platoon went to Myrtle Beach to "get some", we stayed behind and were almost always ridiculed for it. We were called homosexuals, ect.

Your milage may vary, but it takes a very unique person with VERY thick skin to survive in the military environment. I am not and never will be military material. My place is serving the Church and I couldn't be happier. God did make use of my mistake because without it I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and son that I have now.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you as you contemplate your journey.

The peace of Christ be with you.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:07:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chaplain:
Read the treatise by Martin Luther, written in 1526 called: WHETHER SOLDIERS, TOO, CAN BE SAVED. (I can email it to you, or you can find it on the internet or in the library.) It's a great exposition of this question. In short Christians may serve in all civil offices, be they military, L.E., judicial. Christians are fully citizens of two kingdoms, the kingdom of earth, and the kingdom of God. Chaplain



Well put, I was going to reference it myself.
This is what seperates Christianity from other faiths; an ability to reconcile this world and the next.
"Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar"
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:33:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RomanCatholic:

I was in the USMC Reserve for over a year before I left for this exact reason. Yes, I went AWOL. However, I was given an other than honorable discharge (thank God) and sent on my way.

The reason I left was because of the rampant immorality that was taking place around me. I am not a coward and I do miss serving my country, but I was constantly harrased and abused by the men around me. For me God comes first, my country second and I was not going to compromise on this.

On a daily basis my room was torn apart and my rack thrown into the hallway. My personal possessions would be scattered throughout the room and this happened every single day for two months during combat engineers school. I tried following the chain of command and it only brought more ridicule. Thankfully I had two other men who believed the same as myself and we formed a trio to support each other until we went home.

During my time at Courthouse Bay I saw many married men take off their wedding bands to "hook up" with female Marines. One Sgt. imparticular would take the same female Marine into her room two or three times a week while everyone was at the beer garden. Sometimes he wouldn't even remove his ring before they left to her room.

The year I spent in the Marines was a true test of my faith and I became closer to God than I ever had before. This isn't an attack on military personel as I know not everyone is like this. However, during my year in the Marines the only people I found that held the same beliefs as myself were the two men I mentioned earlier. When the rest of the platoon went to Myrtle Beach to "get some", we stayed behind and were almost always ridiculed for it. We were called homosexuals, ect.

Your milage may vary, but it takes a very unique person with VERY thick skin to survive in the military environment. I am not and never will be military material. My place is serving the Church and I couldn't be happier. God did make use of my mistake because without it I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and son that I have now.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you as you contemplate your journey.

The peace of Christ be with you.



Wow, that is exactly what I was afraid of, except worse. That's just plain unacceptable how you were treated just for being a Christian. That really does put a damper on any of my plans to join the military, in fact up to now I was considering the USMC Reserves as my #1 option. If this is going to be my daily life, though.......well, there goes THAT idea. Mind if I ask what the general timeline was when you were in the Marines? From what I understand, there was a period of decidedly less-than-desireable living conditions in the military from the late 70s to the mid/late 80s. Perhaps if this account took place in that time frame, things might just be better these days?

Regardless, thank you for your service, and I would like to commend you for you steadfast faith and devotion. I don't know if I could've taken all that abuse from Marines who were supposed to be your brothers in arms.

God be with you in whatever you do.

--------------

As a question for anyone......I don't suppose conditions would be much better in an Air Force Reserves security forces unit, would they?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 4:06:04 PM EDT
I believe your probably older than me I shipped to bootcamp January 14th, 2002 and graduated from Parris Island April 12, 2002. I then shipped to Camp Geiger for Marine Combat Training and then from there went down the road to Court House Bay. I thought the USMC Reserves would be a little easier than the regular USMC....not a chance. I don't need thanked, I didn't really serve. I am grateful for the opprutunity I had to become closer to the Father though. I can never repay the Marine Corps for that.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:00:57 PM EDT
If, however, the majority of servicemen I would potentially be serving with would really not care about what I do or don't do, and could respect my decisions to avoid certain behaviors and activites, it's a completely different story.

my guess is there's a lot more tolerence and respect for others regardless of their beliefs if they're deployed, after all they form that bond of brotherhood in life and death situations. And if I had to guess I'd guess more and more people consider prayer or deeper thoughts living in a combat zone. Myself I wouldn't be concerned about ridicule or whatnot during a time of war.


Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:01:54 PM EDT
I personally think that God should be the number one thing in a person's life and allegiance to a country shouldn't prevent that. Defending your land is something that is honorable I think but by joining the military you accept the fact that they might send you to fight an aggressive war that you don't agree with. Trying to help your buddies survive makes sense but it doesn't seem like a reason to go to war in the first place. If it was then as long as one guy was going to war then everyone else who followed him for that reason would be justified.

When you go to fight for America you aren't fighting for Christianity. You might well be fighting for a worthy cause but the people who are calling the shots don't really care whether what you are doing is Christian or not. When that is their mindset how can you trust them to dictate who you are going to kill?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:14:27 PM EDT
Appreciate all the answers, and the advice on reading. My situation isn't really a concern about the lifestyle itself, I'm prior service from a long while ago and overall I learned that if you were a good soldier, particularly better than a lot of others, people could really care less whether you were 1 of the in crowd during off hours. I also think you get more respect down deep if you remain firm to your beliefs and show you don't look down on others if you think things they might do aren't really moral.

Anyhow I was infantry and recently re enlisted into the va national guard, my only option at my age, but because they're doing everything to attract prior service people or recruits overall, I had any option of mos and I was thinking medic would be likely the most honorable mos. But they had offered a sniper position in a sniper platoon with a dismounted recon armored cavalry unit.
I had enlisted with the sniper position before I posted this question so the question was a moot point about enlisting anyhow.
If I didn't think I could do it I wouldn't have enlisted into that company, but it's still a good question I've gone back and forth on some in my mind after I noted that I hadn't gone and told my parents or family or friends exactly what I re enlisted to do, just said infantry.
For some reason I haven't really mentioned it to anyone I actually know, I have enthusiasm about it, but in a quiet way.

Again appreciate all the answers, still have some responses to read though....
God bless.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:23:44 PM EDT
When the rest of the platoon went to Myrtle Beach to "get some", we stayed behind and were almost always ridiculed for it. We were called homosexuals, ect.

In boot camp the whole company, some 120 recruits, vanished from the company area on the 1st pass to town for a night, I stayed back in the barracks and worked out and enjoyed the solitude. I learned that if you could out run, out ruck, out pt and out shoot and out do everyone else in most every aspect of infantry school no one really had much to say and in my opinion it's warranted to consider what you're really there for, the soldiering or for the social life in military towns. And in my opinion the soldiering always wins out in terms of tolerence and respect.
This was simply my experience with it.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:33:08 PM EDT
I've gone back and forth on some in my mind after I noted that I hadn't gone and told my parents or family or friends exactly what I re enlisted to do, just said infantry.
For some reason I haven't really mentioned it to anyone I actually know, I have enthusiasm about it, but in a quiet way.


and the point about that being I was questioning to myself whether or not that might be some type of underlying guilt or uncertainty about it, or me attempting to justify it to myself. .
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:49:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By RomanCatholic:

I was in the USMC Reserve for over a year before I left for this exact reason. Yes, I went AWOL. However, I was given an other than honorable discharge (thank God) and sent on my way.

The reason I left was because of the rampant immorality that was taking place around me. I am not a coward and I do miss serving my country, but I was constantly harrased and abused by the men around me. For me God comes first, my country second and I was not going to compromise on this.

On a daily basis my room was torn apart and my rack thrown into the hallway. My personal possessions would be scattered throughout the room and this happened every single day for two months during combat engineers school. I tried following the chain of command and it only brought more ridicule. Thankfully I had two other men who believed the same as myself and we formed a trio to support each other until we went home.

During my time at Courthouse Bay I saw many married men take off their wedding bands to "hook up" with female Marines. One Sgt. imparticular would take the same female Marine into her room two or three times a week while everyone was at the beer garden. Sometimes he wouldn't even remove his ring before they left to her room.

The year I spent in the Marines was a true test of my faith and I became closer to God than I ever had before. This isn't an attack on military personel as I know not everyone is like this. However, during my year in the Marines the only people I found that held the same beliefs as myself were the two men I mentioned earlier. When the rest of the platoon went to Myrtle Beach to "get some", we stayed behind and were almost always ridiculed for it. We were called homosexuals, ect.

Your milage may vary, but it takes a very unique person with VERY thick skin to survive in the military environment. I am not and never will be military material. My place is serving the Church and I couldn't be happier. God did make use of my mistake because without it I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and son that I have now.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you as you contemplate your journey.

The peace of Christ be with you.



Wow, that is exactly what I was afraid of, except worse. That's just plain unacceptable how you were treated just for being a Christian. That really does put a damper on any of my plans to join the military, in fact up to now I was considering the USMC Reserves as my #1 option. If this is going to be my daily life, though.......well, there goes THAT idea. Mind if I ask what the general timeline was when you were in the Marines? From what I understand, there was a period of decidedly less-than-desireable living conditions in the military from the late 70s to the mid/late 80s. Perhaps if this account took place in that time frame, things might just be better these days?

Regardless, thank you for your service, and I would like to commend you for you steadfast faith and devotion. I don't know if I could've taken all that abuse from Marines who were supposed to be your brothers in arms.

God be with you in whatever you do.

--------------

As a question for anyone......I don't suppose conditions would be much better in an Air Force Reserves security forces unit, would they?



If you'd allow me play devil's advocate...


I have never, in now over 13 years combined active and reserve service in the Army, heard of anyone getting treated like "RomanCatholic" due to their religious beliefs. I have heard of - and seen - people getting treated like that because they were absolutley unable to understant the concpet of team and pull their own weight - mostly unable to pull their own weight.

My gut tells me tha the individual in question is using religious beliefs as a crutch for not pulling his own weight. I have seen it before.

I have seen students in schools receive an order, and isntead of disseminating information and starting operations planning, falling on his knees in prayer becasue "God would tell me what to do." This individual was incompetent to say the least. I am sure, in his mind, we harassed him due to his faith.

For what it's worth, I have always been pretty anti-social myself. There is a difference, however, between begin anti-social as in not wanting to go out and party - and absolutely lacking coping and social skills to interract with your fellow Soldiers / Marines.

I rarely went into town on weekends when I was a young Joe - I spent most of the it in the library or such to avaoid the barracks and the inevitable"hey you" details. I graduated AIT with not only an MOS classification and as honor grad, but also 6 credit hours in US history toward a college degree. I also saved a lot of money I would later need desperately. I never experience anything close to the described harassment.

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:13:41 AM EDT
can't speak for the Marines, but my experience in the Navy was positive ( I was a Christian for most of my active duty time)

If you're a Chrisitan who lives by example and doesn't look down on other people for not making the same choices, you'll do fine.

If you're a holier than thou preachy SOB, your time in the military would be quite uncomfortable.

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:14:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By RomanCatholic:

I was in the USMC Reserve for over a year before I left for this exact reason. Yes, I went AWOL. However, I was given an other than honorable discharge (thank God) and sent on my way.

The reason I left was because of the rampant immorality that was taking place around me. I am not a coward and I do miss serving my country, but I was constantly harrased and abused by the men around me. For me God comes first, my country second and I was not going to compromise on this.

On a daily basis my room was torn apart and my rack thrown into the hallway. My personal possessions would be scattered throughout the room and this happened every single day for two months during combat engineers school. I tried following the chain of command and it only brought more ridicule. Thankfully I had two other men who believed the same as myself and we formed a trio to support each other until we went home.

During my time at Courthouse Bay I saw many married men take off their wedding bands to "hook up" with female Marines. One Sgt. imparticular would take the same female Marine into her room two or three times a week while everyone was at the beer garden. Sometimes he wouldn't even remove his ring before they left to her room.

The year I spent in the Marines was a true test of my faith and I became closer to God than I ever had before. This isn't an attack on military personel as I know not everyone is like this. However, during my year in the Marines the only people I found that held the same beliefs as myself were the two men I mentioned earlier. When the rest of the platoon went to Myrtle Beach to "get some", we stayed behind and were almost always ridiculed for it. We were called homosexuals, ect.

Your milage may vary, but it takes a very unique person with VERY thick skin to survive in the military environment. I am not and never will be military material. My place is serving the Church and I couldn't be happier. God did make use of my mistake because without it I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and son that I have now.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you as you contemplate your journey.

The peace of Christ be with you.



Wow, that is exactly what I was afraid of, except worse. That's just plain unacceptable how you were treated just for being a Christian. That really does put a damper on any of my plans to join the military, in fact up to now I was considering the USMC Reserves as my #1 option. If this is going to be my daily life, though.......well, there goes THAT idea. Mind if I ask what the general timeline was when you were in the Marines? From what I understand, there was a period of decidedly less-than-desireable living conditions in the military from the late 70s to the mid/late 80s. Perhaps if this account took place in that time frame, things might just be better these days?

Regardless, thank you for your service, and I would like to commend you for you steadfast faith and devotion. I don't know if I could've taken all that abuse from Marines who were supposed to be your brothers in arms.

God be with you in whatever you do.

--------------

As a question for anyone......I don't suppose conditions would be much better in an Air Force Reserves security forces unit, would they?



If you'd allow me play devil's advocate...


I have never, in now over 13 years combined active and reserve service in the Army, heard of anyone getting treated like "RomanCatholic" due to their religious beliefs. I have heard of - and seen - people getting treated like that because they were absolutley unable to understant the concpet of team and pull their own weight - mostly unable to pull their own weight.

My gut tells me tha the individual in question is using religious beliefs as a crutch for not pulling his own weight. I have seen it before.

I have seen students in schools receive an order, and isntead of disseminating information and starting operations planning, falling on his knees in prayer becasue "God would tell me what to do." This individual was incompetent to say the least. I am sure, in his mind, we harassed him due to his faith.

For what it's worth, I have always been pretty anti-social myself. There is a difference, however, between begin anti-social as in not wanting to go out and party - and absolutely lacking coping and social skills to interract with your fellow Soldiers / Marines.

I rarely went into town on weekends when I was a young Joe - I spent most of the it in the library or such to avaoid the barracks and the inevitable"hey you" details. I graduated AIT with not only an MOS classification and as honor grad, but also 6 credit hours in US history toward a college degree. I also saved a lot of money I would later need desperately. I never experience anything close to the described harassment.




+1

I think if we were to hear from RC's chain of command, a different story might appear.

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:47:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By RomanCatholic:

I was in the USMC Reserve for over a year before I left for this exact reason. Yes, I went AWOL. However, I was given an other than honorable discharge (thank God) and sent on my way.

The reason I left was because of the rampant immorality that was taking place around me. I am not a coward and I do miss serving my country, but I was constantly harrased and abused by the men around me. For me God comes first, my country second and I was not going to compromise on this.

On a daily basis my room was torn apart and my rack thrown into the hallway. My personal possessions would be scattered throughout the room and this happened every single day for two months during combat engineers school. I tried following the chain of command and it only brought more ridicule. Thankfully I had two other men who believed the same as myself and we formed a trio to support each other until we went home.

During my time at Courthouse Bay I saw many married men take off their wedding bands to "hook up" with female Marines. One Sgt. imparticular would take the same female Marine into her room two or three times a week while everyone was at the beer garden. Sometimes he wouldn't even remove his ring before they left to her room.

The year I spent in the Marines was a true test of my faith and I became closer to God than I ever had before. This isn't an attack on military personel as I know not everyone is like this. However, during my year in the Marines the only people I found that held the same beliefs as myself were the two men I mentioned earlier. When the rest of the platoon went to Myrtle Beach to "get some", we stayed behind and were almost always ridiculed for it. We were called homosexuals, ect.

Your milage may vary, but it takes a very unique person with VERY thick skin to survive in the military environment. I am not and never will be military material. My place is serving the Church and I couldn't be happier. God did make use of my mistake because without it I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and son that I have now.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you as you contemplate your journey.

The peace of Christ be with you.



Wow, that is exactly what I was afraid of, except worse. That's just plain unacceptable how you were treated just for being a Christian. That really does put a damper on any of my plans to join the military, in fact up to now I was considering the USMC Reserves as my #1 option. If this is going to be my daily life, though.......well, there goes THAT idea. Mind if I ask what the general timeline was when you were in the Marines? From what I understand, there was a period of decidedly less-than-desireable living conditions in the military from the late 70s to the mid/late 80s. Perhaps if this account took place in that time frame, things might just be better these days?

Regardless, thank you for your service, and I would like to commend you for you steadfast faith and devotion. I don't know if I could've taken all that abuse from Marines who were supposed to be your brothers in arms.

God be with you in whatever you do. h


If you'd allow me play devil's advocate...


I have never, in now over 13 years combined active and reserve service in the Army, heard of anyone getting treated like "RomanCatholic" due to their religious beliefs. I have heard of - and seen - people getting treated like that because they were absolutley unable to understant the concpet of team and pull their own weight - mostly unable to pull their own weight.

My gut tells me tha the individual in question is using religious beliefs as a crutch for not pulling his own weight. I have seen it before.

I have seen students in schools receive an order, and isntead of disseminating information and starting operations planning, falling on his knees in prayer becasue "God would tell me what to do." This individual was incompetent to say the least. I am sure, in his mind, we harassed him due to his faith.

For what it's worth, I have always been pretty anti-social myself. There is a difference, however, between begin anti-social as in not wanting to go out and party - and absolutely lacking coping and social skills to interract with your fellow Soldiers / Marines.

I rarely went into town on weekends when I was a young Joe - I spent most of the it in the library or such to avaoid the barracks and the inevitable"hey you" details. I graduated AIT with not only an MOS classification and as honor grad, but also 6 credit hours in US history toward a college degree. I also saved a lot of money I would later need desperately. I never experience anything close to the described harassment.





I appreciate you playing devil's advocate, but I pulled my weight. I have never been nor will ever be a slacker. Although their is nothing wrong with people who don't feel the need to give 100%, I am not one of them. I have always given my all, whether it be the military or my God. I didn't have a pleasent experience with the military, end of story. It isn't my fault and it took a long time for me to realize that. Some people just don't like you. One last thing; this wasn't being harassed because of my faith. I was harassed because I wouldn't participate in the activities the other Marines were doing. Nobody ever called me anything negative pertaining to my religion, it was because I wouldn't get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, ect. Please don't try to downgrade what I went through, it took a long time to recover from.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:49:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
can't speak for the Marines, but my experience in the Navy was positive ( I was a Christian for most of my active duty time)

If you're a Chrisitan who lives by example and doesn't look down on other people for not making the same choices, you'll do fine.

If you're a holier than thou preachy SOB, your time in the military would be quite uncomfortable.




I don't preach the word of God, that is the job of a priest or deacon. I try to follow the teachings of Christ and I don't look down upon or lecture those who don't. Again, faith wasn't why I was singled out. I was harassed because I wouldn't get drunk with the Marines, go to the beach and sleep around and whatever else they did.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:53:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By RomanCatholic:

I was in the USMC Reserve for over a year before I left for this exact reason. Yes, I went AWOL. However, I was given an other than honorable discharge (thank God) and sent on my way.

The reason I left was because of the rampant immorality that was taking place around me. I am not a coward and I do miss serving my country, but I was constantly harrased and abused by the men around me. For me God comes first, my country second and I was not going to compromise on this.

On a daily basis my room was torn apart and my rack thrown into the hallway. My personal possessions would be scattered throughout the room and this happened every single day for two months during combat engineers school. I tried following the chain of command and it only brought more ridicule. Thankfully I had two other men who believed the same as myself and we formed a trio to support each other until we went home.

During my time at Courthouse Bay I saw many married men take off their wedding bands to "hook up" with female Marines. One Sgt. imparticular would take the same female Marine into her room two or three times a week while everyone was at the beer garden. Sometimes he wouldn't even remove his ring before they left to her room.

The year I spent in the Marines was a true test of my faith and I became closer to God than I ever had before. This isn't an attack on military personel as I know not everyone is like this. However, during my year in the Marines the only people I found that held the same beliefs as myself were the two men I mentioned earlier. When the rest of the platoon went to Myrtle Beach to "get some", we stayed behind and were almost always ridiculed for it. We were called homosexuals, ect.

Your milage may vary, but it takes a very unique person with VERY thick skin to survive in the military environment. I am not and never will be military material. My place is serving the Church and I couldn't be happier. God did make use of my mistake because without it I wouldn't have my beautiful wife and son that I have now.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you as you contemplate your journey.

The peace of Christ be with you.



Wow, that is exactly what I was afraid of, except worse. That's just plain unacceptable how you were treated just for being a Christian. That really does put a damper on any of my plans to join the military, in fact up to now I was considering the USMC Reserves as my #1 option. If this is going to be my daily life, though.......well, there goes THAT idea. Mind if I ask what the general timeline was when you were in the Marines? From what I understand, there was a period of decidedly less-than-desireable living conditions in the military from the late 70s to the mid/late 80s. Perhaps if this account took place in that time frame, things might just be better these days?

Regardless, thank you for your service, and I would like to commend you for you steadfast faith and devotion. I don't know if I could've taken all that abuse from Marines who were supposed to be your brothers in arms.

God be with you in whatever you do. h


If you'd allow me play devil's advocate...


I have never, in now over 13 years combined active and reserve service in the Army, heard of anyone getting treated like "RomanCatholic" due to their religious beliefs. I have heard of - and seen - people getting treated like that because they were absolutley unable to understant the concpet of team and pull their own weight - mostly unable to pull their own weight.

My gut tells me tha the individual in question is using religious beliefs as a crutch for not pulling his own weight. I have seen it before.

I have seen students in schools receive an order, and isntead of disseminating information and starting operations planning, falling on his knees in prayer becasue "God would tell me what to do." This individual was incompetent to say the least. I am sure, in his mind, we harassed him due to his faith.

For what it's worth, I have always been pretty anti-social myself. There is a difference, however, between begin anti-social as in not wanting to go out and party - and absolutely lacking coping and social skills to interract with your fellow Soldiers / Marines.

I rarely went into town on weekends when I was a young Joe - I spent most of the it in the library or such to avaoid the barracks and the inevitable"hey you" details. I graduated AIT with not only an MOS classification and as honor grad, but also 6 credit hours in US history toward a college degree. I also saved a lot of money I would later need desperately. I never experience anything close to the described harassment.




+1

I think if we were to hear from RC's chain of command, a different story might appear.




No, my chain of command probably wouldn't have kind things to say about me considering I went AWOL. I know they were tired of seeing me and replacing my mattresses though. One last time, I am not a "holy roller" or a "preachy" something or other. I tried to mind my own business, but I was not liked because I wouldn't partake in the activities of the majority. I believe what I did was right in that I simply said no and when asked why said I don't believe in it. I didn't quote scripture or condemn people to hell, I left it at that. I have no problem with the military, but it takes a special person to be in that type of atmosphere. It took a long time for me to recover from the mental wounds I sustained in the Marine Corps and I don't need to be criticized and named a slacker or whatever else. A young man simply asked for advice and I gave it.

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:05:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RomanCatholic:

...
No, my chain of command probably wouldn't have kind things to say about me considering I went AWOL. I know they were tired of seeing me and replacing my mattresses though. One last time, I am not a "holy roller" or a "preachy" something or other. I tried to mind my own business, but I was not liked because I wouldn't partake in the activities of the majority. I believe what I did was right in that I simply said no and when asked why said I don't believe in it. I didn't quote scripture or condemn people to hell, I left it at that. I have no problem with the military, but it takes a special person to be in that type of atmosphere. It took a long time for me to recover from the mental wounds I sustained in the Marine Corps and I don't need to be criticized and named a slacker or whatever else. A young man simply asked for advice and I gave it.




What do I know - maybe it was a Marine thing.

You ever go to college?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:01:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By RomanCatholic:

...
No, my chain of command probably wouldn't have kind things to say about me considering I went AWOL. I know they were tired of seeing me and replacing my mattresses though. One last time, I am not a "holy roller" or a "preachy" something or other. I tried to mind my own business, but I was not liked because I wouldn't partake in the activities of the majority. I believe what I did was right in that I simply said no and when asked why said I don't believe in it. I didn't quote scripture or condemn people to hell, I left it at that. I have no problem with the military, but it takes a special person to be in that type of atmosphere. It took a long time for me to recover from the mental wounds I sustained in the Marine Corps and I don't need to be criticized and named a slacker or whatever else. A young man simply asked for advice and I gave it.




Yes. I am currently in college, working and raising a family.

What do I know - maybe it was a Marine thing.

You ever go to college?

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:08:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
There is absolutely nothing 'anti-Christian' about defending your nation, even to the point of taking an enemy solder's life.

And there is nothing particularly 'Christian' about refusing to do so.

You may be a genuine Christian and refuse to defend your country.

What might befall your country afterwards, might change your mind.

By then, however, it would be too late.

Eric The(OnwardChristianSoldiers)Hun


When said country affords freedom of religion, and the enemy affords death to those of a different religion, you had better get your ass out there and defend that country that gave you the right to grow up and be a christian. I gurantee if you dont get out and fight for my freedom I sure as hell wont defedend your freedom to believe your religion. I am agnostic but I would fight for your right to believe in any religion you desire, and you damn well better do the same for me.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:11:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
A basic question for you to ask yourself would be if you support the idea that war can be right and just. Doesn't really matter what your job is, a mechanic or clerk who supports the mission of the infantry is essentially doing the same thing (morally) as the guy actually pulling the trigger.

The biggest concern you'll really encounter is the general lifestyle of the soldiers you'll meet. Military people are fundamentally very conservative, but the off duty lifestyle of young soldiers is very much centered on drinking and chasing pussy, and the culture and language is profane and irreverent.

The Army has been rated NC-17 for language, violence and some sexual content.

That's going to be your biggest concern.




Thats the biggest reason my military asperations went on hold for the current moment. I desperately want to serve my country, but I was very worried about the lifestyle. It came down between the Fire service and the Marines, but its Gods will for me to go Fire/EMS for the current moment. I may still do military in the future, but not until God says im ready.

If you do choose to go .mil more power to you! Its very honerable, but dont relax your Christain values trying to fit in.



+1

That is one of the biggest things that is preventing me from joining the USMC or Army. Is any branch or MOS better in this regard than others? Would I be better off in the Reserves or National Guard? I don't want to give into that kind of lifestyle, but I also don't want to be ridiculed/outcast/hated by everyone else during my entire enlistment.

I don't suppose other servicemen will simply accept my beliefs and allow me to be a non-participant in certain practices and leave it at that...



I'd bet my life saving sthat the average college dorm is more "NC-17" than a military unit. Yet somehowho libs like to dwell on things like reprted secual assualts in the military, and never statistically compare them to the largest assembly of peole in the same basic age group elsewhere - colleges. The same holds true for people now talking about the whole "Lifestyle" thing.

So, let me get this straight. You "morally upstanding" folks are staying with mommy and daddy, because the rough language and behaviors of the meanies in the Army disturb you. Meanwhile, other folks are just simple signing up and fighting the biggest threat to our civilization since Communism. OK, maybe they say, "fuck" every once in a while. Heck, I say it every time I stub my toe.

How does running in fear of hearing a bad word from a fellow soldier make you so morally superior again?

Never use your religion as an excuse for cowardice, or it will become a crutch the rest of your life.

Meanwhile, the heathen US Army will take care of itself.





No, no, you misunderstand. I am not overly concerned with simply being exposed to sinful activites. If being exposed to the word "****" bothered me, I wouldn't hang out here, now would I?

Sin is nearly omnipresent on earth, there's really no way to totally avoid it. We can, however, choose not to partake in it, which IS what I'm concerned about: that if my beliefes and my choices to abstain from drunkeness, porn, etc, would turn my life into a living hell. My fear is that the servicemen I'd be working with would constantly ridicule, shun, or torment me based on my unusual habit of avoiding practices many would consider relatively normal (like drinking, getting laid outside of marriage, etc.). I would prefer not to spend my entire enlistment being hated by everybody around me for doing nothing wrong. If I were shunned because I was a jerk, lazy, etc, then that's understandable, but not just for beliefs of mine that don't conflict with other's interests. If I joined the military, I'd accept the responsibility of fighting enemy combatants, but I would like to take that heavy responsibility knowing I will have at least some support from behind, too. Having people try to kill you on one side and being totally shunned on the other would be a bit too much for me.

If, however, the majority of servicemen I would potentially be serving with would really not care about what I do or don't do, and could respect my decisions to avoid certain behaviors and activites, it's a completely different story. In that case, this potential concern that I have voiced would be more or less a non-issue. All I'm asking here is if this could be the case, if I really would have mainly nothing to worry about in this regard (which is what I'm guessing). That's all I'm saying.



Well if I am there fighting next to you, I will be damned if I stand by and let someone ridicule you for not wanting to be around those things. However dont act like your better than everyone else while doing it or you just might be on your own.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:48:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
I'd bet my life saving sthat the average college dorm is more "NC-17" than a military unit. Yet somehowho libs like to dwell on things like reprted secual assualts in the military, and never statistically compare them to the largest assembly of peole in the same basic age group elsewhere - colleges. The same holds true for people now talking about the whole "Lifestyle" thing.

So, let me get this straight. You "morally upstanding" folks are staying with mommy and daddy, because the rough language and behaviors of the meanies in the Army disturb you. Meanwhile, other folks are just simple signing up and fighting the biggest threat to our civilization since Communism. OK, maybe they say, "fuck" every once in a while. Heck, I say it every time I stub my toe.

How does running in fear of hearing a bad word from a fellow soldier make you so morally superior again?

Never use your religion as an excuse for cowardice, or it will become a crutch the rest of your life.

Meanwhile, the heathen US Army will take care of itself.



I said something similar when some folks complained about Pat Rogers way of teaching. basicly "If hearing the word Fuck so discombobulates you to the point of being Non Mission Capable, they you should never ever come in contact with anything more dangerous than a serreted butter knife"

The military has a large number of beleivers, some denominations (LDS) send their folks to the military in staggering numbers, mostly to the jobs that provide language training, so at the end of the persons enlistment they have a language, and perhaps real world experience in the area of their target language to take with them on their mission trip.

You will hear the word Fuck, you will get woken up by your roommate or the guy next door tagging some gate date. But as others have said already, you will also hear the same thing in any college dorm.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:24:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:59:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:

... But as others have said already, you will also hear the same thing in any college dorm.




The more I think about it, the more I am willing to even go out on a limb and say that the average college dorm is MORE of a bastion of sin and depravity than any military barracks could ever hope to be.

BTW, love your Josey Wales quote under your name. That gives me an idea for a new thread.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:15:24 PM EDT
As a Christian and combat veteran I have no problem serving whatsoever. Im doing my second tour to Iraq this summer, and looking forward to it. With the problems in the world we face to day, it is just as much a duty to God as it is a duty to country to fight.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 6:38:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
As a Christian and combat veteran I have no problem serving whatsoever. Im doing my second tour to Iraq this summer, and looking forward to it. With the problems in the world we face to day, it is just as much a duty to God as it is a duty to country to fight.



Feel the same way.
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