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Posted: 10/17/2004 4:44:47 PM EST
Munitions Systems Apprentice

Aircraft Armament Systems Apprentice

SEAR, Survival, Evasion & Escape Ops Apprentice


i'm assuming that last one is a job training pilots. i understand that some jobs are limited and that you need a certain ASVAB score to be eligable, i'm just looking for more info if anyone here has 'been there, done that' i would love to hear about it.

i'm considering enlisting but i've only talked to the Army recruiter so far. my family (not all of them) is less than thrilled about it - even the AF option. my uncle was a C-130 pilot (ret Col), and my grandfather was a bombardier in ww2 so that is one of the reasons the AF appeals to me.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:48:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 4:49:20 PM EST by Garand_Shooter]
I am not AF so what I say is of doutbfull accuracy, but I think you will find the last one deals more with repairing and maintaing the survival equipment. I could be wrong however.

Now if there are any Army jobs you are interested in I can give you the lowdown on them. What kind of stuff interests you, and if you don't make it career (or even if you do) what would you like to do on the outside,
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:55:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 4:56:55 PM EST by inferno715]
Now if there are any Army jobs you are interested in I can give you the lowdown on them. What kind of stuff interests you, and if you don't make it career (or even if you do) what would you like to do on the outside,

i like guns and things that fly. i'm not looking to make a career out of it, but it's not entirely out of the question. i don't know what i want to do for work right now, nothing is working out and i'm basically a 26y/o go nowhere. i owe money for student loans (around 5k) so i can't afford to go to school, i also don't know what i would go for even if i could afford it.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:55:48 PM EST
you either fly a plane or scrape bird shit off of runways!!!!Thats about it!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:58:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
you either fly a plane or scrape bird shit off of runways!!!!Thats about it!!



well, i used to get paid to pick up dog shit at a vet clinic. at least i'd get a cool uniform this time...and more money.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:01:09 PM EST
If your not planning on making a career of it then go for something that gives you marketable skills. I went in for metals processing, learned how to weld EVERYTHING among other skills and went to work when I got out in a thriving job market. Don't limit yourself to something you can't use out in the world. My .02
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:04:23 PM EST
As far as the Army goes, if you like things that fly the any of the aircraft repair MOS's will get you around choppers and you will get to handle a weapon a whole lot more than the AF. Within a few years you can work your way into a crew chiefs position and do a whole lot of flying.

Now if you have good eyesight, high test scores, and a clean background you may even qualify to a direct slot as a pilot, those those slots are very competative.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:09:24 PM EST
i don't wear glasses but my vision isn't perfect. i also suck at math..so no pilot stuff for me.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:14:10 PM EST
Munitions Systems Apprentice- puts bombs together and transports them to the aircraft. You do not want to do this.

Aircraft Armament Systems Apprentice-loads bombs on the aircraft. You do not want to do this either.


SEAR, Survival, Evasion & Escape Ops Apprentice-????????

I'm a Tactical Aircraft Maintanance Craftsman, aka as a crew chief. 2A3X3
Here's a link to AF job descriptions,
About AF jobs

E-mail me or IM if you have any more questions.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:14:20 PM EST
The last one is an instructor postition if I remember right. It's a marketable skill, there's schools all over the place that teach that stuff. I dont know how competitive it really is though.... I hope you like to eat nightcrawlers and ants. Right now I'd reccomend avionics technician jobs. My uncle was a squid working in avionics and now he's making some serious money as the lead guy on the V-22 program avionics. My stepson is thinking of entering the AF for just that reason. I was an SP now known as an SF for some damned reason..... Dont be an AF cop whatever you do...
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:15:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By inferno715:
Munitions Systems Apprentice

Aircraft Armament Systems Apprentice

SEAR, Survival, Evasion & Escape Ops Apprentice


i'm assuming that last one is a job training pilots. i understand that some jobs are limited and that you need a certain ASVAB score to be eligable, i'm just looking for more info if anyone here has 'been there, done that' i would love to hear about it.

i'm considering enlisting but i've only talked to the Army recruiter so far. my family (not all of them) is less than thrilled about it - even the AF option. my uncle was a C-130 pilot (ret Col), and my grandfather was a bombardier in ww2 so that is one of the reasons the AF appeals to me.



Munition system apprentice = the guy who puts bombs together. Not much civ job market

Aircraft Arm syt = The guy who works on the aircraft guns, Chaff and Flare systems, Missiles racks and other assorted munition delivery accessories.

SEAR = Survival school instructor, Get to eat bugs everyweek and have a limited # of assignment locations...

The recruiter should have some better selections than those.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:17:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 5:19:53 PM EST by Spooky130]
Dude... I fly for the Air Force - the best job in this particular service... However, the next best - aerial gunner - think WWII B-17s except you're in MH-53s, HH-60s, or the gunships (AC-130H/U). In the helos you get a 7.62 minigun or an M2 .50 cal. I think they are hiring too.

The only drawback is that you are gone - a lot - but there is a good side to that - you're getting to shoot your guns and accumulate flight hours.

Places you could be stationed doing this - Nellis (right next door to Vegas), Hurlburt Field, FL (smack dab between Pensacola and Panama City), Kirtland, NM (Albequerue or however you spell it), Mildenhall, England (1.5 hours from London), and Moody, GA (near Valdosta, GA) - those are the active duty places you'll find a variety of the above aircraft. There are guard and reserve units out there too - Alaska and New York (the Perfect Storm guys) come to mind.

Give it a thought - it was my fall back plan if I happened to not graduate from the USAF Academy and had to serve on the enlisted side of the house...

Here's a link Aerial Gunner

Spooky
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:17:37 PM EST
thanks 2A373, i'll probably IM you after i read some more.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:18:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 5:18:59 PM EST by Wingnut116ACW]
I really gotta go with Pangea on this one. If you aren't considering putting in 20+ years then dont go for "cool" jobs, go for jobs that can help you get careers. I am a bit partial though, I am a Satellite, Wideband, Telemetry and Space Systems apprentice, my AFSC is 2E131. The training the Air Force has provided for me has proven invaluable in looking around for careers that pay well. Also, don't discount the Air National Guard and the Air Force Reserve as they can many times give you better educational benefits than the Active Duty. Whatever you decide, you will make a decision that you will have to stick with for years. My advice is to go for something tech-y that will transfer well to the civilian world and will also give you a nice security clearance. You see, with the training the security clearance in the civilian world can be spelled: $$$$. Whatever you do choose, you can sleep well at night knowing that at least you aren't a swabbie.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:18:50 PM EST
I'm in the first right now. Crosstraining in March if that tells you anything.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:19:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO:
I'm in the first right now. Crosstraining in March if that tells you anything.



What to?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:22:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 5:29:19 PM EST by CAR-10]
Be aware that the AF is undergoing "force shaping". We are taking 1/3 fewer recruits during FY 05 as part of phase II of the program. Only undermanned career fields are accepting new accessions during FY 05.

Basically, make sure that you don't get your heart set on a job that is not accepting new troops.

My .02

ETA Not to start another pissing contest, but do yourself a favor, join the AF if there is even a question in your mind.

ETA 2W0 - Munitions. I was a 2W2, so I can say that 2W0's didn't much like their jobs. That's all I'll really say.

ETA 2W1- Aircraft armament. Hard job, but cool as heck (from what I hear.)

ETA And I don't think it's SEAR, it's SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). And now they are authorized a beret. You could go to Fairchild AFB up in Spokane WA. Very nice base, I was stationed there from 1998-1999.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:25:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
If your not planning on making a career of it then go for something that gives you marketable skills. I went in for metals processing, learned how to weld EVERYTHING among other skills and went to work when I got out in a thriving job market. Don't limit yourself to something you can't use out in the world. My .02


++1 to this

I spent four years in the USAF as a supply troop. I really regret not learning a marketable skill while serving. Go for something that you can make good money doing on the outside. Two jobs that come to mind are NDI tech and PMEL tech. NDI tech's inspect aicraft components using xray photography, chemical analysis of fluids, and other methods to determine their serviceability. PMEL techs calibrate diagnostic equipment. I have a cousin who got a twoyear degree for this and he now has an good job servicing hospital equipment. At least learn a trade like welding, electronics, hvac, or something that will keep you from working a burger king if you get out. Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:25:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 5:26:32 PM EST by Backstop]
You may find more info if you spell it right: SERE. At least in the AF. You can find more info here, although some has been deleted due to increased OPSEC, etc.
www.specialtactics.com/sere.shtml

Google "sere air force" - you'll find quite a bit.

Good luck.

Oh yeah - GO AIR FORCE!

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:31:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
If your not planning on making a career of it then go for something that gives you marketable skills. I went in for metals processing, learned how to weld EVERYTHING among other skills and went to work when I got out in a thriving job market. Don't limit yourself to something you can't use out in the world. My .02



That's why I moved from nuclear maint, went to college and came back in as a buyer.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:37:22 PM EST
How well does the AF ensure job choice? Do you get to choose a specific job, or just career field?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:39:46 PM EST
what's the difference between the guards and the reserves?

thanks for the info guys, keep it coming!!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:40:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
How well does the AF ensure job choice? Do you get to choose a specific job, or just career field?


The million dollar question.

Whatever you do, get it in writing. Twice.

I don't have the answer - I got out in 96.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:41:44 PM EST
SERE is a cool sounding job, but make sure you look into it first. All I remember from the SERE recruiter is that he had a maroon beret on. A friend of mine was so impressed by his speech to our basic training class that he left being a crew chief to become a SERE instructor.

Not only does the ASVAB score open doors for you, but so does your MEPS visit. Some jobs require certain hearing levels and eye sight scores. Don't sell out if you can't get the job you want. Ask how you can better yourself (if possible) to get the job at MEPS.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:41:55 PM EST
You should look in your phone book and talk to a recruiter. Not brushing you off - but they'll have the up to date info.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:55:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2A373:

Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO:
I'm in the first right now. Crosstraining in March if that tells you anything.



What to?



Intel 1N5
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:02:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 6:03:51 PM EST by Lapp_Dance]
T2A672 here, AGE instructor. Stay away from SERE, had a lot of folks get hurt, and most of them are not allowed to continue training/instructing, and they get sent to other schools. I personally have taught 1 (former) SERE student, as well as a (former) Para Rescuer, PJ. Not going for a career? Get a technical job that will give you skills needed on the outside. Computer stuff is always good. Putting bombs together, where are you gonna get a job doing that?

AMMO Sucks!

ETA: Spooky, I want in. Drop my name at work, will ya? I REALLY need to crosstrain, and I want a job on an HH-60 running a mini.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:36:36 PM EST
NDI: is a verygood career field that pays big $$ on the outside especially if you get all the certification.

PMEL: is good too if you wan't to work in a TV/stereo repair shop LoL ! Plus the tech school is a 11-12 month SOB with a CDC follow on that is a pile of books 2 ft high ! They used to have the PMEL school at Lowry along with food services tech school where PMEL washouts ended up ..

Aerial Gunner: is a cool AFSC that used to be only open to crosstraining E-5's. Mini guns , 240's, M2's get to act and dress highspeed too !

Helicopter Maintainer "Crew Chief": is a good AFSC if your into maintenance and most of special ops units go to places cool except the training wing at Kirtland but you will be working your ass off if your working MH-53's.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:30:33 PM EST


AMMO Sucks!





Yep. What's up Lapp?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:24:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 8:27:57 PM EST by KA3B]
I did my SERE course at Warner Springs in Kalifornication for the Navy.
We had a few Air Force guys with us.

I did a two day SERE seminar / refresher course over at Fairchild in the late summer.

If I was not an Aircrewman with orders I would have done one tour as a SERE instructor in San Diego.


https://public.fairchild.amc.af.mil/336trg/66trs/66trs.htm

The 66 TRS is part of the United States Air Force Survival School, under the 336th Training Group. The 66 TRS is responsible for all Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape(SERE) training related to the SERE Career field, Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC) 1T0X0. This squadron trains the SERE specialists that train the rest of the Air Force in SERE principles and techniques.

The 66 TRS conducts training in SERE skills and knowledge for the 3-, 5-, and 7-skill levels for the SERE Specialist AFSC. The 66 TRS also conducts courses S-V84-A, Underwater Egress Course and S-V90-A, Water Training Survival, Non-Ejection Course. A summary of the courses offered by the 66 TRS can be found later in this page.

The 66 TRS is located at the home of the United States Air Force Survival School at Fairchild AFB, Washington. The nearest city is Spokane, WA, 13 miles to the east.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Course Information:

Course S-V81-A, SERE Specialist Apprentice Training

This course is conducted to train first term airman and selected cross-training individuals in the art and science of SERE skills and knowledge, and instructional techniques. The mission of the 23-week course is to develop airman who are experts at SERE techniques, as well as preparing them with skills and knowledge necessary to effectively teach these skills to other members of the Air Force. Qualifications for attending this course are rigorous, requiring good physical abilities and perhaps more importantly, strong mental abilities. Much of the training is a "mind over matter" proposition.

The course includes intensive field training in each major environment, training in evasion and related activities, and training in instructional methodologies and techniques. Graduates of this course join the proud ranks of the small, elite group of Air Force SERE Training Instructors and immediately assume duties as SERE Instructors, training our valuable aircrew members how to, "Return with Honor". The career field is always looking for qualified individuals to join in this unique and challenging career field.

Course J3ACP1T071, SERE Specialist 7 Skill Level Training

This is a 19 day course conducted for mid-career SERE Training Instructor NCOs, for the award of the seven-skill level. Training takes place in the four extreme biomes of Barren Arctic, Barren Desert, Open Ocean, and Jungle. This intense course of training provides hands-on operational training in SERE techniques for SERE Specialist NCOs.

Course S-V84-A, Underwater Egress Training

This course is designed to train Air Force helicopter aircrew members and other designated personnel in the principles, procedures, and techniques necessary to successfully egress from a sinking aircraft. Training requires personnel to actually experience water entry into the Modular Egress Training Simulator (METS) device and perform underwater egress.

Course S-V90-A, Water Survival Training, Non-Parachuting

This course provides water survival training to aircrew members flying non-ejection seat aircraft. This course involves specific training in open ocean survival techniques using life rafts, personal flotation devices, and other open ocean survival equipment. Techniques for boarding the rafts, using the survival radios and other equipment and open ocean hoist recovery techniques are taught and practiced in this intensive two day course.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Opportunities: If you are considering joining the military and are the type of individual who enjoys the outdoors, talk to your Air Force recruiter to get more information and to see if you might qualify to volunteer for the SERE Specialist career field. The Air Force offers an outstanding way of life and the SERE career field is an exciting, adventure filled opportunity for those interested in outdoors activities such as hiking, climbing, and experiencing various biomes by learning how to survive in them. (Be sure to check out the information on the 336 TRG Contacts page)

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:32:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO:


AMMO Sucks!





Yep. What's up Lapp?





Being a Orrdy is great, at least it was in the Navy



IYAOYAS!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:33:58 PM EST
Job is fine, but management is lacking. Too many chiefs not enough indians syndrome among many other things.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:52:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
you either fly a plane or scrape bird shit off of runways!!!!Thats about it!!



Seriously! If youre looking for something cool in the AF go with the Para-Rescue guys at Patrick AFB. You will get some good high speed low drag training.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 8:59:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
Seriously! If youre looking for something cool in the AF go with the Para-Rescue guys at Patrick AFB. You will get some good high speed low drag training.



Yes, but don't plan on getting in. People will be given the chance to try out for the PJ's in basic training if you qualify. The wash out rate is very high so you should consider a job of your choice before you try that. Remember never to step on the Green Feet!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 10:34:53 PM EST
thanks again for the info guys. i'm probably going to go talk to a recruiter in the next couple days. i'm not signing anything or commiting to anything, just seeking more information as of now.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:28:41 AM EST
Lots of good info here. I never served in the AF, but I did consider. Just a little piece of advice from someone on the outside looking in. If you do go AF, look hard into a inspection or PMET area. Stay away from wrenching on Aircraft. Right now about the only place looking for A&P's out side the .mil are small little podunk airports that only want to pay you $10/hr to put your livleyhood on the line incase you screw up.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 4:33:15 AM EST
3P0X1A/B-Security Forces-Combat Arms/Dog Handler shreds. If you like to shoot, and want to learn a LOT about weapons, see if they'll GTEP you as a CATM instructor. I liked it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:25:33 AM EST
i've got an appointment to talk to the recruiter on thursday. he gave me a AFSC list of what's available. i'm going to inquire about the Aerial Gunner, 1A7X1. i'm looking up a bunch of things of the list too.

i'm not much of a tech head, my ASVAB score kind of sucked (IMO anyway). i can always go back to college afterwards, right now i don't know what i would go for.

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:30:00 AM EST
The best piece of advice is find something YOU like- If you take a job in the military realize you are going to be starting out on the Bottom, and you'll get the shit jobs, but if you like your field at least it won't suck as much. There are very few jobs where you start out doing the cool stuff- it usually takes a couple years training/shit work to get to a position where it's a lot of fun- Go in with your eyes open its not a cake walk.

If you just want to get in and get out-go with a career field that can be used on the outside. The AF IMHO provides the most oppurtunity for training/education compared to the other services. We have more money to spend on traing our troops in the techie stuff. Nearly every base has education facilities and they will let you bend work hours to make it. my .02$
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:06:13 AM EST
I did four years as a Radio Technician (30454). Could have got on with Motorola ect. but didn't want to. Went into Nursing, no regrets.
The Air Force is the way to go, no offense out there. The other services make a little fun because they are treated so well, easy boot camp, blue uniform, ect.
I changed my assignment to a worlwide mobile tactical contoll squadron (728 TCS Duke Field, Fla)
stationed in the woods north of Ft. Walton Beach. Had more weapons training than regular Army, wore BDU's not Blues (if that matters), went over seas,worked in climate controled vans and deployed with 4 duece and a halfs full of burgers, beer, ect......
Electronic work means air conditioner, Air Force means spoiled.
Of course there is Pararescue, and special ops, forward air traffic control, ect. Of course they are made fun of sometimes (Black Hawk Down) because of shorter training and non-nco participants.
Air Force ASVAB scores must be higher than the others so training goes a little quicker.
I am pro-Air Force, they treated me well, I have friends who were just as satisfied in other branches. Come to think of it Nursing means air condition also...I guess both jobs had/have enough A/C and adrenaline to satisfy.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:08:30 AM EST
When I was in basic I had the PJ contract in front of me, I was told if I washed out they decided where to put me. I said thanks anyway and got back in the other line!
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