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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/17/2001 9:13:45 AM EST
I am watching c-span right now and they are discussung potecting the american flag. at first I was gung ho on protecting it, but now after listening to the arguments I am quite the other way. what they are doing is trying to change the first ammendment to protect the flag. I think it is wrong to burn the flag, but to protect it we would have to change the bill of rights. it is not the bill of rights and restrictions it is the bill of rights. one democrat said that in order to preserve our freedom we must have limits. doesn't that sound kinda like communism. i woun't fight in the military for a flag but I will gladly die to protect the freedom that it represenst. if we say you can't do this as a protest, we take away the very freedom that it preserves. we can't just give the freedom of speech when we like it. but what do you think
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:20:56 AM EST
I think the flag is a symbol of a proud nation and the fact that people burn it is kind of stupid. They are burning the symbol of their freedom to protest. They should find a different way of doing things they may get more done than pissing everyone who respects the flag off. [?]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:24:28 AM EST
I gave this some thought the other day when I was burning pizza boxes without a permit... I had some red white and blue paint to the one side in case the town inspector showed up... "What pizza boxes? These are flags and burning them is constitutionally protected...." I don't feel that
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:27:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:29:44 AM EST
maybe its a test, to see if we stand for them messing around with the BoR. do i see our line in the sand???? think about it, change the First, add this and that to the Fourth...oops! where did that pesky Second one go??? oh well, we'll just replace it with: a well regulated prison camp, being necessary to an unfree state, the right of the people to be imprisoned shall not be infringed. - burn the flag if that is what you need to do, but HANDS OFF THE BILL OF RIGHTS!
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:31:46 AM EST
As much as I would hate to see someone burning a perfectly good flag (as opposed to proper destruction of a worn flag), this is nevertheless a free country. I went to see the Highwaymen years back and the way Johnny Cash put it was "you may have the freedom to burn your flag, but if you try and burn mine I will exercise my right to keep and bear arms!" (Or something very close to that.)
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:44:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2001 9:43:18 AM EST by ah1z]
I guess the real question is which is more important, our right to free speech or the flag
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:47:28 AM EST
flags change, rights should not.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:55:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:58:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:01:21 AM EST
The burning of "Old Glory" is protected political free speech. Congress can not prevent a person from burning the Stars and Stripes; however they should pass a bill that anyone burning the Symbol of American must have the flag wrapped around them while it is set afire and burning.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:05:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:13:38 AM EST
It just a peice of cloth, its what the flag represents that is worth fighting for.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:17:27 AM EST
As a Libertarian, I believe people should have the right to burn the flag as a form of protest against their government. As a firefighter, I believe they should be immediately locked up for arson! Burn the flag if you must...but remember, this is one of the only countries where you enjoy the freedom to do so. AMERICA: Love it or leave it!
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:54:22 AM EST
Well, here's my thoughts on this. I personally think anybody burning the flag is a cowardly hypocrite and need to have a serious ass whooping. Burning the symbol of the very soiciety that gives them that freedom is the basest and most unimaginative form of expression and is no different from slapping your mother. I wish every one of the bastards would get a tattoo on their forehead so that in the event they ever need my help, I can toss'em a pack of matches.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:50:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By ah1z: one democrat said that in order to preserve our freedom we must have limits. doesn't that sound kinda like communism. i woun't fight in the military for a flag but I will gladly die to protect the freedom that it represenst. if we say you can't do this as a protest, we take away the very freedom that it preserves. we can't just give the freedom of speech when we like it. but what do you think
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This is exactly the kind of reasoning the antis use against us....limits on freedoms. I don't like the burning of the flags, but to impose 'limits' on the bill of rights is wrong. We want our right to keep and bear arms with no limits, so how can we argue to take away or place a limit on other rights contained within the bill of rights.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:20:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By HANGFIRE: The burning of "Old Glory" is protected political free speech. Congress can not prevent a person from burning the Stars and Stripes; Most cities have laws about open burning that you can be arrested for. I personally would never burn our nation's flag but I would fight for the First Amendment right of Free Speech. If you let them "amend" one part of the BOR then what will be next, the right to bear arms, freedom of religon...... Where will it stop?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:35:48 PM EST
thank you I am glad that most of you agree with me, if we let them start messing with the bill of right than who know how far they will let it go. personally i think that the solution is not to make it illegal it is to teach that it is wrong in the first place. I totally agree I might not like what you have to say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it. maybe if we could get more anti gun people to see it this way
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:46:09 PM EST
Buy a couple of U.N., communist, or NAZI flags. whenever you see someone burn a U.S. flag, burn one of the others in protest. i personally like the "Dont tread on me" flag. it should be our flag instead, but i'm just a right-wing libertoon. it's just a piece of cloth lib
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:51:27 PM EST
When I was a kid (many years ago) we started every day in public gradeschool with the Pleadge of Allegiance and The Lord's Prayer..how can you pledge allegiance and then burn it or allow it to be burned...One nation under God....I guess it must be in the Bill of Rights that proclaims...Are endowed by their Creator with certain un-alienable rights...to me burning the flag is not protected by the first ammendment...it doesnt allow you to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre..burning the flag has the same inflamatory (no pun intended) effect on those who pledged allegiance to it...of course you can always spend some of that fiat currency that states "In God We Trust" on it and buy a new one...at taxpayers expense of course...
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 12:56:20 PM EST
The flag is a piece of shit rag. I say "BURN IT" ! . . . You are talking about the *UN* Flag, right?? [img]home.wanadoo.nl/boutini/Flag-Un.gif[/img] [img]home.wanadoo.nl/boutini/Flag-Un.gif[/img] [img]home.wanadoo.nl/boutini/Flag-Un.gif[/img] [img]home.wanadoo.nl/boutini/Flag-Un.gif[/img] [img]home.wanadoo.nl/boutini/Flag-Un.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 1:08:25 PM EST
If it deprives no one of their life,freedom or property to burn it,I would just walk by.Then when you catch him alone,BITCH SLAP him!
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 3:07:12 PM EST
we have to be forward thinkers in this. it's not just about this issue. it's about where this issue leads us as a nation and as citizens. assume they make burning the flag illegal because some don't like burning the symbol of the U.S. okay. what then? we're not allowed to write letters to the editor criticizing our government? or the media can only print articles that make the government "look godd"? or we're not allowed to say "i think (fill in blank) is a lousy president/congressman/senator/governor/etc because....." there isn't a compelling reason for banning flag burning. no crime. no victim. no immorality. so what if we don't like it? are we going to take away an indiviual's rights for that reason? if so, welcome to PRSSA. that's People's Republic of the Socialist States of America.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 3:19:19 PM EST
You want to burn a US flag? Then come to me, I will buy you a one way ticket to China, if it is so bad here. Try burning their flag. GG
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:04:09 PM EST
If a law is passed to make it illegal to burn the flag ([i]IE: The symbol of our freedom[/i]), then we have LOST our "freedom" and rendered the flag meaningless... At this point, we will have officially become a "Police State", where it is illegal to speak up and voice OUR opinions against our government. On this day, I will douse the AmeriKan flag in kerosene, hoist it high upon a flagpole, and set it ablaze... From this day forward, the flag will stand for nothing! [*] This post will more than likely cost me a few friends on this board, but think about the comparrison made in a previous post to the China flag... Our government would be acting in the same manner as that of Red China, and I will protest to the bitter end!
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:06:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2001 4:06:12 PM EST by Drake]
I don't think the issue here is whether or not we want to burn the flag but it is more an issue of our First Amendment right to do so. I am not defending or condoning the burning of the flag, but our ability to do that lies in the Bill of Rights. 9divdoc is correct when he said the the First Amendment does not give you a right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater but rather it gives you a right to "political speech". In other words, it enables us to criticize our government publicly. The flag is a symbol of our Govt. so burning it is a form of symbolic speech. I am with you gun guru, lets start a collection for airfare! I do believe that a couple of hundred years ago there may have been a group of people that were unhappy with how things were going in their country. They revolted and some called them traitors. We now call them heros and patriots. Do you think that they may have "burned a flag" so to speak? Just something to think about.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:15:35 PM EST
Freedom of speech does not apply when the act can cause undue panic or incite a riot It just only matters how pissed off you get. Im sorry to all that it pisses me off and makes me want to riot against those who burn. GG
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:15:56 PM EST
They revolted and some called them traitors. We now call them heros and patriots.
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My point exactly! One of more familiar men that was involved in the "original" revolt had the same last name as me... and the same blood! [i]~ General Nathaniel Greene[/i]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:17:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2001 4:17:42 PM EST by Gun Guru]
Originally Posted By ah1z: I guess the real question is which is more important, our right to free speech or the flag
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That flag is your bill of rights GG
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 4:36:05 PM EST
Simply because we all recognize that burning the US Flag is so emotionally symbolic, we must permit it. Burning flags is the correct and honorable way to dispose of them, so it's not like it's absolutely [i]verboten, nicht wahr?[/i] When I was leaving Louisiana ('in the broad daylight', as Emmylou Harris sang), that State was on the verge of passing an amended Code of Criminal Laws, that made it a [b]defense[/b] to the crime of [b]simple battery[/b] that at the time the offense was committed, the victim was in the process of, preparing to, or actually burning the United States, Confederate, or Louisiana State flags. Now, [b]that's[/b] the answer to flag burning of any kind. A lot of you young folks may not remember, but the Anti-Vietnam war protests of the early 70s came to a screeching halt in New York City, when the anti-war folks made the lamentable mistake of being downtown during the lunch hour, with their NVA flags fluttering, and with all kinds of anti-US posters and banners in tow. What happened? The 'hard-hat' construction crews off on their lunch breaks, flew into the crowds and beat the sh*t out of the protestors. They grabbed US flags from buildings, etc., and ran amok amongst the gentle, peace-loving crowds. The country smiled and forgot the War for a few glorious moments.[:D] Eric The(Hey!ItCanHappenAgainA-Holes!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 5:35:59 PM EST
the flag is not our bill of rights. technically speaking, we could have a socialist country and the rights guaranteed to us by the the Bill of Rights would still be ours inasmuch as those rights are God-given and not granted to us by the government. The government would just be severly restricting them for its own gain. we could cease to be the USA and those rights would still exist. each state could become and autonomous nation and those rights would still exist. i'm not too thrilled with those that wish to spit on america by burning the flag, but i'm glad that they, and therefore i, still have the freedom to do so. those heroes and patriots didn't just burn flags, they burned effigies (sp?) of good ol' King George.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 6:05:51 PM EST
We cannot afford to pick and choose which freedoms are protected. We of all persecuted groups should understand this. It' just a few hop, jumps and skip to apply the same protection to presidents, mayors, cops, agencies, and GOD knows what else. I am wearing my stars and stripes shorts right now and I reserve the right to set them on fire, crap in them, or perform a damn sexy ptriotic strip tease.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 6:16:26 PM EST
gunmonkey- just don't light a fart while your wearing your American Flag shorts or you WILL be burning in them like HANGFIRE was talking about!
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:00:49 PM EST
there is no such thing as being partially free, either you are, or you are not.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:37:16 PM EST
the flag by itself is just a object. what people belive it stands for is another issue. u want to burn a US flag go ahed just be prepared when someone gets pissed and slugs u
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