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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 10/15/2001 6:43:27 AM EDT
i've got a real strong itch to get a new bolt action in 6.5x55mm swed. my first choice would be remington but they only made this caliber in the "classic" for a year--back in the mid 90's. this only leaves ruger and winchester as the two companies currently menufacturing rifles int his caliber. the winchester is a bit more than the ruger--does anyone have an opinion on these two rifles (the winchester is a pre-64 style--the new one with the mauser style claw extractor). thanks, sloth
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 7:00:57 AM EDT
I like the Winchester better.Its slicker and better looking.however there is nothing wrong with the Ruger.The Ruger has the shorter action more suitable for the 6.5x55[30-06 length]The 6.5x55 is a little to long to fit in a 308 [2.8in]action.The winchester will take a .375 length cart.The bolt and mag are blocked to a shorter length.Im a lefty and neither makes a 6.5 for me.Great choice of cart.One of my favorites.This is what my boys will use on there first deer hunt.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 7:03:46 AM EDT
I forgotboth are CRF [control round feed]now.Agian I think the Winchester is a better design
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 7:29:52 AM EDT
I prefer the Ruger, but both actions are similar. The Ruger has the integral mount system requiring no separate scope mount and ring purchase, but the Winchester 70 has a more easily tuneable trigger. The Ruger has an anodized aluminum floor plate that looks cheap, but can be replaced with an accessory blued steel replacement from Ruger. The Winchester has an anodized aluminum trigger guard (steel floor plate) that looks cheap, but can be replaced with a steel accessory from Brownell's. Now that Winchester is under the G.I.A.T. umbrella as is Browning, they are a little controlling as to how and when their products are distributed. Meaning it may be easier to get a Ruger.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 7:32:12 AM EDT
armalite-fan--i'm glad that someone else thinks that 6.5 swed is a good choice of caliber. i've been going back and forth between it and the 308. i've got another 308 at home (semi) and it would be logical for me to just get a bolt action 308...cheaper ammo and one less caliber to have to keep on hand. however, i just like the 6.5 swed. it has some sort of appeal that i just can't seem to explain. sloth
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 8:20:12 AM EDT
Why not get an original Swedish Mauser? Cheaper and just as good as the others.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 9:20:36 AM EDT
Why not get an original Swedish Mauser? Cheaper and just as good as the others.
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Cuz they're not as strong (one of the newer handload manuals has data for modern actions [b][i]ONLY[/i][/b]), are not D&T'd for a scope, cock on closing vice on opening, don't have a detachable floor plate as on the modern actions, and don't have QD sling swivel studs. A lot of reasons why they're not as good. Explains why they're cheaper.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 9:27:01 AM EDT
I like the ruger a little better then the winchester. The scope mounts are very durable and come free with the gun. I'm not sure about the win., but the ruger has a one piece set up on the bolt that is also very strong.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:10:23 PM EDT
The Winchester is hands down a better made gun. Take a look at the stocks. Winchester has the best looking factory stocks out there. The Featherweight is a real knockout. Winchester's controlled round feed grips more of the case. It has an adjustable trigger (important in these days of lawyer-proof factory triggers). The Winchester also has a lot of aftermarket parts and accessories available, second only to the 700. I have heard that Ruger has pretty loose tolerances for its barrels, while recent Winchester barrels have been very good in my experience. While Ruger's rings and bases are free, they also limit you. Want to try another brand - too bad. Want to get rings a little higher or lower - too bad. The Winchester has a lot of other key features - coned breech, fixed ejector, field-stripable bolt, etc. Ruger may also have these, I am not sure. There is no doubt that the Ruger is more reasonably priced, but this is one of those instances of you definately get what you pay for. Anyway, Gart's Sports has Model 70s on sale right now for $429, which is only a few bucks more than the usual sale price for a Ruger in my area ($400).
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:24:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2001 12:19:09 PM EDT by cpermd]
Uh Have you ever seen a Ruger in a High Power match,a benchrest,or a silhouette gun? What does that tell you? cpermd
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:28:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:29:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By imposter: Winchester's controlled round feed grips more of the case. It has an adjustable trigger (important in these days of lawyer-proof factory triggers). I have heard that Ruger has pretty loose tolerances for its barrels, while recent Winchester barrels have been very good in my experience. While Ruger's rings and bases are free, they also limit you. Want to try another brand - too bad. Want to get rings a little higher or lower - too bad.
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First, I own a ruger 77mkIIvt in .308 that normally does 1/2moa. Ruger now makes their own barrels and the result is a better product. As far as triggers, mine came with a very nice 2 stage that broke at about 3lbs. Aftermarket triggers are readily available. I have had no problem with the mauser type ruger action. Also, ruger has just introduced redesigned stocks that look very nice. They also offer a sweet international stock. Ruger offers different height scope rings as well as 1 inch and 30mm rings. You can get weaver adapters too. The mounting system is probably one of the strongest available and is very repeatable. I have dismounted my scope on my ruger and there is always less then 1/2moa shift in zero. The winchester is not a hands down better rifle. It really depends on personal choice.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:33:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: Uh Have you ever seen a Ruger in a High Power match,a benchrest,or a silhouette gun? What does that tell you? cpermd
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That doesn't tell you anything about the quality of a gun. If that meant anything, everything that was not used in competition would be junk. Is that true? No.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:36:29 PM EDT
Sorry ARBen It is not the barrels It is the 77 action and bedding that suck-Extremely poor design. Back to my previous statement;you have never seen a Ruger 77 in a high accuracy game and there is a damn good reason,they can't perform there.Prove me wrong! cpermd
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:46:14 PM EDT
While Ruger's rings and bases are free, they also limit you. Want to try another brand - too bad. Want to get rings a little higher or lower - too bad.
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Totally incorrect. Ruger makes several different heights of rings and will exchange them at no cost if the standard set won't accomodate your scope. Leupold, Redfield, and Burris all offer different heights of rings for Ruger's integral mount system.
It is the 77 action and bedding that suck-Extremely poor design.
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Again, totally incorrect. Ruger's bedding system has proven itself extremely good over the past thirty-three years of 77 production in the basic hunting versions of the rifle and in its varmint versions. See Frank DeHaas' [i]Bolt Action Rifles[/i] for more clarification.
I have heard that Ruger has pretty loose tolerances for its barrels, while recent Winchester barrels have been very good in my experience.
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Got a borescope to back up that claim?
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:47:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: Sorry ARBen It is not the barrels It is the 77 action and bedding that suck-Extremely poor design. Back to my previous statement;you have never seen a Ruger 77 in a high accuracy game and there is a damn good reason,they can't perform there.Prove me wrong! cpermd
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I'm not going to start one of those rifle brand pissing contests, but could you explain what sucks about the ruger action and bedding? The action is a proven design. My rifle consistently shoots 5 shot 1/2 moa groups without any modifacations with hunting ammo. If someone really wanted to use a ruger I don't see what would stop them if they wanted to. I love my remington, but so what. They both work, regardless of what competitors use. I have not seen the 77 in game shooting, but I have seen police departments use the sniper version. I would say that that is a very high stakes game.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:50:35 PM EDT
I have seen A match rifle on a Ruger Action. Thats it. Redfield also makes different height scope rings for a Ruger. The Mount system Very Strong. The 77 is based on the VENERABLE Mauser 98. The Ruger can be difficult to bed. My sporter laminate will shoot MOA with every load I've worked up. The Ruger stock was designed by Lenard Brownell and it fits me well. The trigger needs replacing on the sporter models. The Target rifle trigger is excellent. The Winchester can be bedded more easily. The puch feed is great for rapid fire. Both controlled and push feed are smoother than a stock Ruger. The Winchester trigger in the hands of a knowledgable gunsmith can be tuned to a crisp 2 1/2 to 3 pounds. No included scope mounts. I own models of both rifles.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 12:58:30 PM EDT
The Flathead Ford was also a nice design. They are not used in competiton any more either. Competition shooters use what is most accurate. Show me a single national record shot with a Ruger 77 in any competition and I will acquiesce. I do use a Ruger 77 in 280 Rem for hunting and love it. cpermd
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 1:03:48 PM EDT
Show me a single national record shot with a Ruger 77 in any competition and I will acquiesce.
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I don't recall that the original poster was looking for a rifle for this purpose.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 1:04:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: The Flathead Ford was also a nice design. They are not used in competiton any more either. Competition shooters use what is most accurate. cpermd
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Most accurate and ease of bolt manipulation for rapid fire in X course shooting. Priced a Stolle or a Barnhardt lately? Too rich for my blood. Like you said....shooting targets or animals can be different.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 1:11:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: Show me a single national record shot with a Ruger 77 in any competition and I will acquiesce. cpermd
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IT DOESN'T MATTER! I don't buy my guns according to what everyone else uses. I buy what works. If I was going to compete, I would have a custom rifle built from the ground up. Does that mean that the ruger can't shoot, no. No one ever said rugers are wide spread in the competitive world, but if you are saying that they can't shoot because they aren't used you are wrong. End of story. Game over.
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 1:25:47 PM EDT
Punt
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 1:29:53 PM EDT
i'd like to start by thanking everyone for the great and insiteful comments. i didn't mean to start a debate here. my intention was to put together a nice looking accurate rifle for long range shots at deer/groundhogs/coyotes. i want something reasonably priced and as accurate as i can find (at a reasonable price). i was afraid that the ruger quality was markedly lower than the winchester. it sounds like both quality and price are comperable between the two rifles. i've already checked, and drop in timney replacement triggers are $50-60 from midway. i also was looking to get an unfinished laminate (tigerwood stock) and finish it as a winter project. so i have a bunch of ideas i'm considering. about the only thing i've decided on is the caliber. again thank you for yalls opinions. i don't want to stop the debate. i am gaining a lot of valuable info and things to consider from the messages being posted. again thanks, jim
Link Posted: 10/15/2001 2:02:23 PM EDT
This is kind of like the whole ArmaLite versus Bushmaster and Ford versus Chevrolet debates. I don't see either one of these rifles as decidedly better than the other. Each has a certain feature or features that is unique to it and that may be something worth considering. I have a left-handed Model 77 in .270 and my Dad has a tang safety Model 77 in .243, a MKII Model 77 in 6.5 x 55mm, a pre-64 Featherweight Model 70 in .270, and a post-64 Featherweight Model 70 in 7 x 57mm. I have shot all of them as well as a few friend's Model 77s in .243 and .220 Swift. I really can't tell a helluva lot of difference in any of them, but the .220 Swift was a 77V and shot exceptionally well for an out-of-the-box factory rifle. I will tell you this, though. Winchester/Browning/G.I.A.T.'s customer service is the shits. After having dealt with both them and Ruger for minor service and parts purchases over the past several years, it pretty well made up my mind for my last left-handed rifle purchase (A Remington 700 VS). The "six-and-a-half" is a good caliber and either rifle will do very well. Occasionally, Gun List, Auction Arms, and Gunbroker will have NIB Remington 700 Classics in 6.5 x 55mm.
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