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Posted: 8/10/2007 3:11:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2007 3:12:01 PM EDT by GhostRing]
OK, if you are traveling in a car in a residential area (25mph), and a cyclist (still on their bike) is waiting to cross
an intersecting road (with stop signs) are you permitted/required to stop and let him cross?
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 3:24:18 PM EDT
Bicycles are even supposed to signal
their intent, as far as turning.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 3:24:45 PM EDT
Gotcha.

Some dude just got all butt-hurt because I stopped to let him cross.
Like his time stopped would have changed if it was a pedestrian...

Jeez, I was just trying to be nice.
And they run crosswalk stings around here all the time.
I'm glad that CCW has taught me some confrontational restraint.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 4:16:13 PM EDT
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 4:20:10 PM EDT
I don't where you are, tonnage always has the right of way.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 4:26:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gringop:
But you decide to be nice and stop your vehicle even though you have the right of way.
Now you have fucked up his plans and he has to change his plans because you wanted to be "nice".

Being nice is holding doors for someone who has an armload of packages.
Being nice is helping an elderly person out and allowing them to go first.

Stopping your car in the middle of the street when you could have gone through and been out of other's way in 2 seconds is not being nice.


Amen. The "nice" driver is annoying at best, dangerous at worst.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 4:27:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 4:44:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.


Maybe buying a bicycle and exercising your way to work would give you an appreciation for vehicles that don't pollute, cause road wear or make noise.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 5:03:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR4U:
<-----Doesn't own a functional bike


Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.



So, bikers by definition don't pay taxes?
Bikes have every right to be on the road, same as cars. It's the LAW.



Nope. What are the liscense and registration fees for a bicycle? How much does a cyclist pay in fuel taxes to operate their bicycle? These are the things that pay for the upkeep of public roads , so no , as far as roadways are concerned , cyclists do not pay taxes.

Before everybody flames me , let me say that I really have no problem with this fact , as bicycles do not cause the same wear on roads that cars do , but I do wish that more of the morons I see on bicycles would be held equally accountable when they ignore traffic laws. I can't count the number of times I've nearly smashed cyclists that chose to ignore stop signs or failed to signal turns or lane changes.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 5:07:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Nevermind the fact that they're not buying fuel in turn supporting terrorist nations.

So short sided.
Link Posted: 8/10/2007 5:09:07 PM EDT
was it a 4 way stop?

Cyclists have the same duty, responsibilities and privileges as those driving a car

Link Posted: 8/10/2007 5:26:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2007 5:28:12 PM EDT by FMJ3]

Originally Posted By sav_carguy:

Originally Posted By AR4U:
<-----Doesn't own a functional bike


Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.



So, bikers by definition don't pay taxes?
Bikes have every right to be on the road, same as cars. It's the LAW.



Nope. What are the liscense and registration fees for a bicycle? How much does a cyclist pay in fuel taxes to operate their bicycle? These are the things that pay for the upkeep of public roads , so no , as far as roadways are concerned , cyclists do not pay taxes.

Before everybody flames me , let me say that I really have no problem with this fact , as bicycles do not cause the same wear on roads that cars do , but I do wish that more of the morons I see on bicycles would be held equally accountable when they ignore traffic laws. I can't count the number of times I've nearly smashed cyclists that chose to ignore stop signs or failed to signal turns or lane changes.


Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.

On your last sentence: The same shit flows both ways, but you usually don't see cyclists trying to run cars off the road or using them for target practice with the empties from their last 6 pack
Cyclist are almost always willing to pull over and discuss it - drivers....not so much
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 3:39:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone....


Well put.
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 5:29:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone....


Well put.


Besides the fact that cyclists put zero wear on the road surface.
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 5:44:41 AM EDT
FMJ3 has it right. You think every person you see on a bike gets everywhere on his bike. He owns a car also. I ride a bike and own three cars and a motorcycle so if I want to ride I will. If you don't think I'm paying enough taxes you can piss up a rope cause I pay plenty. As a matter of fact my whole family rides on the roads including my two daughters. I'll speak to them about the need to pay some taxes for the privelage. I'll bet the six-year old will understand.
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 5:47:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Couldn't have said it better myself.......
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 3:20:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone....


Well put.


Well, almost well put. Most but not all own cars. And on top of that, paying taxes for the roads does not give anyone the luxury/priviledge/right to put along at 25 mph and hold up traffic.

I don't know what it's like in all the other states but here in good ole Orygun it is a frequent occurrence to have to wait - or have to pass illegally in order to get around them. I especially enjoy the days when they have rallys and it takes three times as long to get around to see all my fields.

I'm all for cyclists. I hope they have a great time - on bike trails they pay to build and maintain, and out of everyone else's way.
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 4:51:12 PM EDT
Only in America



We're at war over oil; even our poor people are fat; but we complain about transportation that's good exercise and causes no pollution, noise or road wear.
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 4:56:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2007 4:58:19 PM EDT by slimslade]
Most of the cyclists I see never stop for stop signs or traffic lights. And what's with those outfits they wear?
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 5:20:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Only in America



We're at war over oil; even our poor people are fat; but we complain about transportation that's good exercise and causes no pollution, noise or road wear.


Ok then, let's put this in the right perspective. How many ultralights do you have to dodge at work?
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 5:33:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slimslade:
Most of the cyclists I see never stop for stop signs or traffic lights. And what's with those outfits they wear?


Well you have to buy alot of synthetic gear to wick sweat away but instead of getting regular colors some of them like to get stuff that makes them look like lance armstrong.


The only thing I'll say to that is you won't find a mountain biker looking like that, we try to hide the fact that we're wearing spandex.
Link Posted: 8/11/2007 5:53:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By slimslade:
Most of the cyclists I see never stop for stop signs or traffic lights. And what's with those outfits they wear?


Well you have to buy alot of synthetic gear to wick sweat away but instead of getting regular colors some of them like to get stuff that makes them look like lance armstrong.


The only thing I'll say to that is you won't find a mountain biker looking like that, we try to hide the fact that we're wearing spandex.


I don't think you'd find a clown looking like that.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 5:59:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:

Originally Posted By sav_carguy:

Originally Posted By AR4U:
<-----Doesn't own a functional bike


Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.



So, bikers by definition don't pay taxes?
Bikes have every right to be on the road, same as cars. It's the LAW.



Nope. What are the liscense and registration fees for a bicycle? How much does a cyclist pay in fuel taxes to operate their bicycle? These are the things that pay for the upkeep of public roads , so no , as far as roadways are concerned , cyclists do not pay taxes.

Before everybody flames me , let me say that I really have no problem with this fact , as bicycles do not cause the same wear on roads that cars do , but I do wish that more of the morons I see on bicycles would be held equally accountable when they ignore traffic laws. I can't count the number of times I've nearly smashed cyclists that chose to ignore stop signs or failed to signal turns or lane changes.


Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.

On your last sentence: The same shit flows both ways, but you usually don't see cyclists trying to run cars off the road or using them for target practice with the empties from their last 6 pack
Cyclist are almost always willing to pull over and discuss it - drivers....not so much


Using your logic, would you be ok with me driving around on your bike path?


I don't see any logical connection between my post and your statement, but I'll reply anyway.

Ummm, you may not drive on the bike paths but drivers have no problem using the bike lanes as a trash dump. Why can't people just wait until they get where they're going and dispose of their shit properly.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 6:14:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 6:15:25 AM EDT by pale_pony]

Originally Posted By brentwal:

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
I don't where you are, tonnage always has the right of way.


Or as I call it "Right of Weight Physics"


There, fixed it for ya...
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 6:17:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pale_pony:

Originally Posted By brentwal:

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
I don't where you are, tonnage always has the right of way.


Or as I call it "Right of Weight Physics"


There, fixed it for ya...


Yup. right of way goes to whoever is bigger and moving faster...Newton's a motherfucker.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 6:17:05 AM EDT
I ride my bike to work every day, weather permitting. I detect more bad habits from motorists than I ever do for cyclists. These would include, but not be limited to the following

1. Running stop signs
2. Speeding
3. No turn signals
4. Not yielding the right of way when required
5. Littering
6. Improper lane change

I yield to ALL vehicles when I'm riding. The laws of physics are such that a 4K pickup traveling at 35 mph will provide more force than my bike traveling at 10-15 mph. That having been said its easy to pick on another class of vehicles simply because you are ensconced in a metal cocoon traveling at super speeds down the highway of life.

OBTW my only means of transportation is an '88 pickup that gets 12 mpg on a good day with a large tailwind. I pay my share of road use taxes, gas taxes and the like so I'm cognizant of both sides of the issue. I choose to ride because I can, not because I'm a Lance Armstrong wanna-be.
OBTW II: I don't own Spandex as it makes my butt look fat on the bike seat!

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 6:58:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 6:58:33 AM EDT by MillerSHO]
As a biker I cannot STAND bikers who will run the tail end of a red light or blow stop signs like they are exempt.

To those who that use gas soley to get around: trust me, this "exempt" type of behavior is the source of many internal conflicts with us riders so please keep this in mind next time you see a biker doing this and think we all do this.

The more I act like a car on the road, the safer I seem to be.

But there are times when say the sidewalk and bike lanes are closed and I WILL go 15-20mph in the street to get around the trouble spot and get back in the bike lane.


Sorry if I held you up for that 5-10 seconds of your precious life.

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:01:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.


Um. I pay Road and Bridge Privelige Tax EVERY year, and if I want to ride my bicycle to work instead of my car, I reckon I will. I'm already paying for my right to travel on the roads, thank you very much, and there are no laws on the books as far as I'm aware that regulate what mode of conveyance I may use. I obey every traffic law, and stop at every light and stop sign. I pose no danger to others, and I'm not fucking hurting anything by being on a bicycle.

I see people that think like you do every day that I ride, and they usually do their best to run over me or push me off the road, to the point that I now carry my pistol on every ride. I've had beer bottle thrown at me, I've been cursed at and threatened, and I've been run off the road several times. Too bad that none of the people doing these things have the stones to get out of their precious cars and face me up close. They're too busy congratulating themselves on the great accomplishment of running a cyclist off the road as they stuff their guts on buckets of KFC.

Time to wake up, people. The whole "car culture" thing, the idea that people on bikes or other "non-car" transportation are fair game needs to go away. That's a dangerous attitude that will get somebody killed one day, for no good reason.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:03:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By doubleclaw:

Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.


Um. I pay Road and Bridge Privelige Tax EVERY year, and if I want to ride my bicycle to work instead of my car, I reckon I will. I'm already paying for my right to travel on the roads, thank you very much, and there are no laws on the books as far as I'm aware that regulate what mode of conveyance I may use. I obey every traffic law, and stop at every light and stop sign. I pose no danger to others, and I'm not fucking hurting anything by being on a bicycle.

I see people that think like you do every day that I ride, and they usually do their best to run over me or push me off the road, to the point that I now carry my pistol on every ride. I've had beer bottle thrown at me, I've been cursed at and threatened, and I've been run off the road several times. Too bad that none of the people doing these things have the stones to get out of their precious cars and face me up close. They're too busy congratulating themselves on the great accomplishment of running a cyclist off the road as they stuff their guts on buckets of KFC.

Time to wake up, people. The whole "car culture" thing, the idea that people on bikes or other "non-car" transportation are fair game needs to go away. That's a dangerous attitude that will get somebody killed one day, for no good reason.


At least when it comes to biking to work you'd LOVE portland.
You just won't see that type of vemon towards bikers hardly ever.

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:10:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.


I disagree with this statement.

The cost of end of life medical care is about equal for everybody.

being in better shape costing less in medical care, is like the whole red herring about smokers costing more in medical coverage.

It isnt true.

The problem is that those in better shape (just like those that dont smoke) will probably drag more out of the government in Social Security, welfare, pensions, etc...

So ride a bike, you are sticking it to the other taxpayers!!!

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:14:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NMSight:

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone....


Well put.


Well, almost well put. Most but not all own cars. And on top of that, paying taxes for the roads does not give anyone the luxury/priviledge/right to put along at 25 mph and hold up traffic.

I don't know what it's like in all the other states but here in good ole Orygun it is a frequent occurrence to have to wait - or have to pass illegally in order to get around them. I especially enjoy the days when they have rallys and it takes three times as long to get around to see all my fields.

I'm all for cyclists. I hope they have a great time - on bike trails they pay to build and maintain, and out of everyone else's way.


LOTS of people do that very thing in their cars, but I guess that's ok. It's just "them goddam bicyclers" that are the problem, right?

We pay to build and maintain the roads, same as you do, so if we want to ride on them, we can. If bicyclists piss you off that much, you might want to see a therapist before you go all road-ragey on somebody. That goes for a bunch of you guys out there. The idea that you can crush somebody under your car if they don't get outta your way is not only illegal, but stupid.

When you really think about it, cyclists aren't doing you one bit of real harm, they're just "infringing" on "your" territory, which really isn't "yours" when all is said and done. Public road means just that, and you don't get to decide who gets to use it or with what. Deal with it, and cool your jets.

Better yet, why don't you try bicycling? It's a great stress reliever.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:14:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 7:21:06 AM EDT by Mr_Psmith]
eta: I see it's already been covered on page 2.

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:16:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 7:22:06 AM EDT by Mr_Psmith]

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone....


Well put.


Ownage.

The tax burden from diabetes and heart disease as the baby boomers age may bankrupt this country.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:19:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 7:21:33 AM EDT by Mr_Psmith]
edit: Not a very nice thing to say.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:22:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.


I disagree with this statement.

The cost of end of life medical care is about equal for everybody.

being in better shape costing less in medical care, is like the whole red herring about smokers costing more in medical coverage.

It isnt true.

The problem is that those in better shape (just like those that dont smoke) will probably drag more out of the government in Social Security, welfare, pensions, etc...

So ride a bike, you are sticking it to the other taxpayers!!!



I think you just won the "rationalization of the year" award.

Congrats.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:24:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 7:28:59 AM EDT by Powerkicker]
I hate it when bicyclists ride on the sidewalks (even where legal) because they feel like they can run right across any pedestrian crosswalk with impunity (which legally they can). The problem? If I'm sitting at a stop light to make a right turn at a cross walk and my view to the right is only 50 feet due to light poles and other obstructions, even when I look all the way down to the limit of my line of sight with all due diligence, I cannot see the fast moving bicycle that is 60' away closing against the traffic. He will close that distance in a second of two as I roll forward to turn. Result? The guy on the bike hits the side of my car and then acts like he's totally not at fault??!! Dude, you're going twenty mph on an obscured corner crosswalk against the flow of traffic on a split, four line highway and the pedestrians go 3-7 mph maybe. That 50' window of opportunity I have to perceive you is not enough when you won't slow the heck down because you have a "right" to use the pedestrian crosswalks. I hate bicyclists on sidewalks.

The cyclists on the street I'm cool with. I can see them and they are obeying the same rules I am.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:24:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Using your logic, would you be ok with me driving around on your bike path?


Let me clarify this issue once and for all:

Cyclists are not allowed on controlled access motorways.

Automobiles are not allowed on bike paths.

Everybody's even.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:26:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.


I disagree with this statement.

The cost of end of life medical care is about equal for everybody.

being in better shape costing less in medical care, is like the whole red herring about smokers costing more in medical coverage.

It isnt true.

The problem is that those in better shape (just like those that dont smoke) will probably drag more out of the government in Social Security, welfare, pensions, etc...

So ride a bike, you are sticking it to the other taxpayers!!!



I think you just won the "rationalization of the year" award.

Congrats.


What rationalization?

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:28:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 7:32:06 AM EDT by MillerSHO]

Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I hate it when bicyclists ride on the sidewalks (even where legal) because they feel like they can run right across any pedestrian crosswalk with impunity (which legally they can). The problem? If I'm sitting at a stop light to make a right turn at a cross walk and my view to the right is only 50 feet due to light poles and other obstructions, even when I look all the way down to the limit of my line of sight with all due diligence, I cannot see the fast moving bicycle that is 60' away closing against the traffic and will close that in a second of two as I roll forward to turn. Result? The guy on the bike hits the side of my car and then acts like he's totally not at fault??!! Dude, you're going twenty mph on an obscured corner crosswalk against the flow of traffic on a split, four line highway and the pedestrians go 3-7 mph maybe. That 50' window or opportunity I have to perceive you is not enough when you won't slow the hell down because you have a "right" to use the pedestrian crosswalks. I hate bicyclists on sidewalks.

The cyclists on the street I'm cool with. I can see them and they are obeying the same rules I am.


Sounds like a newbie.
When you first start out it's natural to think the sidwalk is safer.
The smart ones figure out real quick this isn't true esp as they get faster.

Some people are so stupid it literally hurts.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:29:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2007 7:35:35 AM EDT by MillerSHO]

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.


I disagree with this statement.

The cost of end of life medical care is about equal for everybody.

being in better shape costing less in medical care, is like the whole red herring about smokers costing more in medical coverage.

It isnt true.

The problem is that those in better shape (just like those that dont smoke) will probably drag more out of the government in Social Security, welfare, pensions, etc...

So ride a bike, you are sticking it to the other taxpayers!!!



I think you just won the "rationalization of the year" award.

Congrats.


What rationalization?



Do I REALLY need to explain this to you or are you just trying to be difficult?

You're basically saying its OK to be fat and be a smoker when it comes to overall cost.
It's like you're giving the benefit of the doubt to the fat, diabetic, smokers, etc instead to those who care about their bodies.

Trust me, america's populas is much better off with strong, healthy people. If you cannot see that then you are bordering on mental retardation.

Say americans are called to defend her borders, it seems a person like you would be ok with everyone being fat and needed daily medications to function as a normal human.

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:43:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NMSight:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Couldn't have said it better myself.......


Too bad about those taxes. However, as was previously mentioned, IT IS THE LAW!

You and I probably have quite a few issues with many different laws (I can't wait to get out of NJ) but we have to adjust and deal with it as best we can.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:45:27 AM EDT
I nearly clipped one the other day riding down the center of the damn road
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 7:45:57 AM EDT
My neighborhood tickets bicyclists regularly for violating traffic laws. We have a serious problem in our neighborhood with Lance Armstrong Wannabees.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:08:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.


I disagree with this statement.

The cost of end of life medical care is about equal for everybody.

being in better shape costing less in medical care, is like the whole red herring about smokers costing more in medical coverage.

It isnt true.

The problem is that those in better shape (just like those that dont smoke) will probably drag more out of the government in Social Security, welfare, pensions, etc...

So ride a bike, you are sticking it to the other taxpayers!!!



I think you just won the "rationalization of the year" award.

Congrats.


What rationalization?



Do I REALLY need to explain this to you or are you just trying to be difficult?

You're basically saying its OK to be fat and be a smoker when it comes to overall cost.
It's like you're giving the benefit of the doubt to the fat, diabetic, smokers, etc instead to those who care about their bodies.

Trust me, america's populas is much better off with strong, healthy people. If you cannot see that then you are bordering on mental retardation.

Say americans are called to defend her borders, it seems a person like you would be ok with everyone being fat and needed daily medications to function as a normal human.



wow, got under your skin? strike a nerve?

I was making a comment about economics.

Back when the Clintons were arguing that they needed to raise the tax on cigarettes to meet the 'extra' medical cost of smokers, some economists did a study and found that the government was making a bigger 'profit' (due to not having to pay out social security, welfare, pensions, etc, because smokers died 10-12 years before non-smokers) on each pack, than the tax that already existed. (I think at the time the tax was 50 cents a pack, and the 'profit' was 80-something? cents, or something like that). Those economists found that nearly everyone paid/cost the same in medical coverage over their life, regardless of whether they smoked or not.

I bet the same thing occurs when a comparison of fit vs non-fit lifetime medical costs are made.

So in a macro economic view, it would be better for the unproductive members of society to be fat, lazy, smokers, than to be fit and a drain for a long long time.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:16:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silence:

wow, got under your skin? strike a nerve?

I was making a comment about economics.

Back when the Clintons were arguing that they needed to raise the tax on cigarettes to meet the 'extra' medical cost of smokers, some economists did a study and found that the government was making a bigger 'profit' (due to not having to pay out social security, welfare, pensions, etc, because smokers died 10-12 years before non-smokers) on each pack, than the tax that already existed. (I think at the time the tax was 50 cents a pack, and the 'profit' was 80-something? cents, or something like that). Those economists found that nearly everyone paid/cost the same in medical coverage over their life, regardless of whether they smoked or not.

I bet the same thing occurs when a comparison of fit vs non-fit lifetime medical costs are made.

So in a macro economic view, it would be better for the unproductive members of society to be fat, lazy, smokers, than to be fit and a drain for a long long time.


Even most non-smokers are unhealthy and have diseases like diabetes and heart disease, which means your extrapolation to even those who are healthy, ride bicycles etc. is really not valid.

Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:17:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr_Psmith:

Originally Posted By Silence:

wow, got under your skin? strike a nerve?

I was making a comment about economics.

Back when the Clintons were arguing that they needed to raise the tax on cigarettes to meet the 'extra' medical cost of smokers, some economists did a study and found that the government was making a bigger 'profit' (due to not having to pay out social security, welfare, pensions, etc, because smokers died 10-12 years before non-smokers) on each pack, than the tax that already existed. (I think at the time the tax was 50 cents a pack, and the 'profit' was 80-something? cents, or something like that). Those economists found that nearly everyone paid/cost the same in medical coverage over their life, regardless of whether they smoked or not.

I bet the same thing occurs when a comparison of fit vs non-fit lifetime medical costs are made.

So in a macro economic view, it would be better for the unproductive members of society to be fat, lazy, smokers, than to be fit and a drain for a long long time.


Even most non-smokers are unhealthy and have diseases like diabetes and heart disease, which means your extrapolation to even those who are healthy, ride bicycles etc. is really not valid.



Why?

Everybody ends up with some terminal illness.

It may happen at 45, or 85, but it happens to everybody.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:18:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


last i checked a bicycle does not wear out the road anywhere near as much as a vehicle does. and the law states, treat a bike just like another automobile, so why don't you get the stick out of your ass and obey the law.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:19:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
When bike riders have to pay .40 cents per gallon equivilent for their fuel and a stiff liscense fee for their "vehicle". I will start worrying about what they want to see happen on the roadways.


Agreed.

If they want their fair share of the road they can start paying into it.


i drive a vehicle as well, so stfu i paid for my share of the road.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:26:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NMSight:

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Newsflash: Most cyclists also own cars, so yes they do in fact pay taxes for the roads. Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone....


Well put.


Well, almost well put. Most but not all own cars. And on top of that, paying taxes for the roads does not give anyone the luxury/priviledge/right to put along at 25 mph and hold up traffic.

I don't know what it's like in all the other states but here in good ole Orygun it is a frequent occurrence to have to wait - or have to pass illegally in order to get around them. I especially enjoy the days when they have rallys and it takes three times as long to get around to see all my fields.

I'm all for cyclists. I hope they have a great time - on bike trails they pay to build and maintain, and out of everyone else's way.


farm tractors go slow yet have a right to the road as well, do you go road rage on them as well?
how long can passing a bike possibly take? 5 seconds, maybe a minute if there is lots of oncoming traffic?
show some respect and give some room to those of us who choose to exercise and not be a fat slob.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:28:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Bike riders are supposed to follow traffic signals. If they have a stop sign they are supposed to stop.


Tell that to some of the 'tards in St Pete, FL.
They ride on the wrong side of the street and run stop signs then get pissed when you almost make them a stain on the pavement.
Link Posted: 8/12/2007 8:33:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Though many will consume far fewer taxes as they age more gracefully than the fat slobs chewing through Medicaid like it's a T-Bone.


I disagree with this statement.

The cost of end of life medical care is about equal for everybody.

being in better shape costing less in medical care, is like the whole red herring about smokers costing more in medical coverage.

It isnt true.

The problem is that those in better shape (just like those that dont smoke) will probably drag more out of the government in Social Security, welfare, pensions, etc...

So ride a bike, you are sticking it to the other taxpayers!!!



please back up these statements. i do not believe for one second that a obese man with diabetes will take less of a toll on our health care system than an moderate athlete.

im waiting on these facts from a REPUTABLE source
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