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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/22/2002 4:39:32 PM EDT
With those final words, Daniel Pearl's throat was slashed in a video made and released by his kidnappers in Pakistan! [size=4]Filmed Execution of WSJ Reporter Sets Off Revulsion[/size=4] February 22, 2002 11:40 AM ET KARACHI (Reuters) - The slaying of kidnapped U.S. journalist Daniel Pearl, whose throat was slit on camera by Islamic radicals in Pakistan, set off a wave of revulsion on Friday against his murderers. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, who has rallied to the U.S.-led war on terrorism and cracked down on Islamic militants, denounced the murder and ordered an all-out nationwide manhunt for suspects still at large. A Pakistani investigator said police across the country were searching for up to four suspects in the kidnap of Pearl, abducted during his investigation of Islamic radical groups. Jameel Yousuf, chairman of the Citizens-Police Liaison Committee, an official organization deeply involved in the search for Pearl, told Reuters police had detained over half the gang suspected of being involved in the kidnapping. "Only three or four people are left who have been identified. Houses are being raided," Yousuf told Reuters. President Bush, speaking during a visit to China, called the killing of the 38-year-old Wall Street Journal reporter a "criminal, barbaric" act and vowed no quarter to rid the world of what he described as agents of terror. Pearl's family said it was a "senseless murder" that had silenced "a gentle soul." A top Pakistan government official told Reuters authorities learned of the killing of Pearl, abducted in Karachi Jan. 23, from a videotape of the murder sent to a Pakistani reporter in Karachi Wednesday or Thursday. [b]"I AM A JEW"[/b] Pearl's death was formally announced late Thursday night. His body has not been found and it is unclear exactly when and where he was executed. But in a account of Pearl's last moments, the Pakistani official, who asked not to be identified, said Pearl's last words uttered on camera before his killing were that he was a Jew and his father was a Jew. "I have been told that the last words uttered by Pearl in the videotape, immediately before his throat was slit, were 'Yes I am a Jew and my father is a Jew'," the official said. "Maybe he was forced by his kidnappers to say these words." [b]Fahad Naseem, one of three men accused of involvement in the kidnapping, said Thursday Pearl was abducted because he was a Jew working against Islam, according to his lawyer.[/b] - continued -
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 4:42:52 PM EDT
Pakistan police in early February arrested Naseem and two other suspects for sending emails to media organizations that showed Pearl in captivity. Dr. Riffat Hussein, a defense and strategic studies analyst at Islamabad's Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, said the sophistication of the kidnapping pointed to possible involvement of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, chief suspect for the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. "If you look at the character of this case -- the methodology that was used, the use of email, and videotape -- it suggests it may have some very significant al Qaeda links," Hussein said. A Pakistani source close to the investigation told Reuters the video was short and showed Pearl's throat being cut. "The scene that apparently confirmed the murder of Pearl was when one person's hand cut the U.S. reporter's neck with a sharp tool," the source, quoting someone who had seen the tape, said. The source added that the tape showed the hands of two or three other people. Pearl disappeared in Karachi, Pakistan's largest city of 14 million people, as he tried to contact Islamic radical groups and investigate possible links between alleged shoe bomber Richard Reid and al Qaeda. MURDER ON TAPE The group claiming to hold Pearl, calling itself The National Movement for the Restoration of Pakistani Sovereignty, accused him of being a spy -- first for the CIA, then for Israeli intelligence. It said it was protesting against U.S. treatment of Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners from the Afghan war. Lonnie Kelley, Public Affairs officer at the U.S. consulate in Karachi, told Reuters "both Pakistan and U.S. investigators have identified the perpetrators behind the crime." Police are already holding some suspects. They include key suspect Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, a British-born Islamic militant commonly known as Sheikh Omar who has previous links to kidnappings. Omar confessed to the kidnapping before a court in Karachi last week, and said he believed Pearl was dead. "Pearl's murder is outrageous and the United States is determined to bring the perpetrators to justice," Kelley said. Wall Street Journal Publisher Peter Kann and Managing Editor Paul Steiger said in a statement on Thursday: "We are heartbroken. His murder is an act of barbarism that makes a mockery of everything Danny's kidnappers claimed to believe in. "Their actions must surely bring shame to all true Pakistani patriots," they said. - continued -
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 4:48:53 PM EDT
[b]PREGNANT WIFE[/b] Pearl's family called him "a beloved son, a brother, an uncle, a husband and a father to a child who will never know him." Pearl's wife Mariane, who was in Karachi, is more than six months pregnant with their first child, a son. Bush said Pearl's death would only hurt the cause of his captors. "All Americans are sad and angry to learn of the murder," Bush told reporters before leaving Beijing, his last stop on a six-day trip to Asia. "Those who would threaten Americans, those who would engage in criminal, barbaric acts, need to know that these crimes only hurt their cause and only deepen the resolve of the United States of America to rid the world of these agents of terror." Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was accompanying Bush on his Asian visit, said Bush spoke by telephone with President Musharraf about the killing. "President Musharraf took it pretty badly because he was doing everything to stop the kidnappers" from killing Pearl, Powell told reporters aboard Air Force One. Musharraf has vowed every member of the kidnap gang would be hunted down. Pearl, the Journal's South Asian bureau chief based in Bombay, India, for the past two years, had been working in Karachi for three weeks when he was kidnapped. Friends said he was smart, sweet, soft-spoken, self-effacing and unlikely to take unreasonable risks. He also was a talented fiddler, guitarist and classical violinist. One of three children, Pearl's father is an academic and his mother a computer consultant. Outside the temporary newsroom in New York of The Wall Street Journal, which was displaced after the Sept. 11 airliner attacks, a Journal reporter called Pearl's death "a despicable act. [b]"HE WOULDN'T HURT A FLY"[/b] "He wouldn't hurt a fly. It's just disgusting," the reporter said. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan saluted the courage of Pearl and other journalists around the world. "The crime highlights the enormous dangers encountered by journalists, particularly in areas of conflict and violence," Annan said through his spokesman, Fred Eckhard. In New York, the Committee to Protect Journalists called Pearl's death "brutal, wanton, and senseless." See article at:[url]http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=14AVLPQ2J2HKECRBAELCFFAKEEARKIWD?type=topnews&StoryID=623201[/url] [b]Yes, Daniel, you are right, Our Father is a Jew![/b] Eric The(AnyoneFeelingRemotelyAnti-SemiticThisEvening?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 9:20:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2002 9:34:22 PM EDT by Mordwyn]
Hebrew Kaddish (Prayer for the Dead) Magnified and sanctified be the great name of God in the world which he created according to his will. May he establish his Kingdom in your life and in your days, and in the lifetime of all his people: quickly and speedily may it come; and let us say Amen! Blessed be God for ever! Blessed, praised and glorified,exalted, extolled and honored, magnified and lauded be the name of the Holy One; blessed be God! Though he be high above all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations, which are uttered in the world; and let us say Amen! Blessed be God for ever! May there be abundant peace from heaven and life for us and for all people; let us say Amen! Blessed be God for ever! The Lords Prayer Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, Thy kingdom come, thy will be done,on earth as it is in heaven Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever Amen I said this after the atrocity of the World Trade Center attack and now I say it for Daniel Pearl, and I will never stop saying it. [B]NEVER EVER FORGET THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN[/B]
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 9:25:15 PM EDT
Amen. That was just what this thread needed, Mordwyn! Eric The(Thankful)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 9:28:24 PM EDT
Thank you Mordwyn.
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 9:32:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mordwyn: Hebrew Kaddish (Prayer for the Dead) Magnified and sanctified be the great name of God in the world .......
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Hate to sound like I'm trolling, but this isn't a Jewish thing, its an American thing. He'd be dead if he were Hindu, Atheist, Christian or whatnot. Being a Jew was only something that those muslim bastards thought would be a defense within the Muslim world.
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 9:37:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2002 9:40:20 PM EDT by Mordwyn]
Minman, to clarify my post, I wrote these words for three reaons only to honor this man who was a Jew. to honor this man who was an American. to honor this man who has fallen. In what order? Let that be your desicion.
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 9:39:25 PM EDT
Then why didn't these murderers force him to say 'I am an American and my father is an American'? Before they killed him? I'm certain that he was grabbed because they thought they could get milage with him for their cause, and maybe get some prisoners freed or something. But when push came to shove, he wasn't an American to them, just a Jew! Reminds me of that scene in the movie where Orson Welles reveals himself to be a Nazi on the lam to Edward G. Robinson. At dinner, the guests are discussing Germans and someone mentions that Karl Marx was a German, and the Welles character is quick to point out that Marx wasn't a German, he was a Jew! Edward G. got wise to him quick! Eric The(OldMovie)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 9:42:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mordwyn: Minman, to clarify my post, I wrote these words for three reaons only to honor this man who was a Jew. to honor this man who was an American. to honor this man who has fallen. In what order? Let that be your desicion.
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You don't have to clarify. The words are clear enough.
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 10:14:28 PM EDT
Its difficult to see this as something requiring a national action, I am however revolted as you gentlemen are. I know GW is trying to build support for an attack on Iraq and needs a muslim event, but we have had Japanese tourists shot here in the USA, and it was handled without an international action. I wish that a statement from the news agency was added to give this story a little veracity and reassure us that he wasn't a CIA plant. Some testimony from co-workers?
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 10:43:44 PM EDT
I have to wonder why those Japanese tourists were shot. Was it because of their nationality, for their money, or because they were easier targets than American citizens? Pearl's death is larger in scope because it was for political reasons to forward the messed up cause of the bastards that killed him. Just my.02
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 10:51:40 PM EDT
BTW, the Orson Welles movie to which I referred in my previous post was [b][i]'The Stranger'[/i][/b], 1946, directed by Orson Welles, himself, and starring Welles, Edward G. Robinson, and Loretta Young! Mordwyn, your IM box says that it's full, but I'm not certain that's true, cause I also tried to IM flashman and it says his is full too! Eric The(MovieBuff)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/22/2002 10:59:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Then why didn't these murderers force him to say 'I am an American and my father is an American'? Before they killed him? Eric The(OldMovie)Hun[>]:)]
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I thought his last words were "So I not going to get that book deal am I?"
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:12:22 AM EDT
Some months ago, the terrorists in the Phillipines cut off the head of an american tourist they kidnapped. Where were the calls for U.S. military action back then??? Are jews supposed to be a group that are to have more government protections or something?
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:14:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2002 12:16:34 AM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Some months ago, the terrorists in the Phillipines cut off the head of an american tourist they kidnapped. Where were the calls for U.S. military action back then??? Are jews supposed to be a group that are to have more government protections or something?
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Of course YOU would think such a thing... and apparently you dont read any posts that lack your own name either...
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:15:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By flashman: I nominate Igunrunners post as the the lowest class post ever on AR15.com
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Why I am honored for the nomination, I missed class clown by two votes in high school.
Where are the mods?
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Probably in bed.
The man was an American,
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True statement.
they cut his head off.
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I can't comment as I did not see the "video"; did you?
You think this is funny?
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Nope. What I did see was a guy who seemed to be posing for pictures and seemed to be smiling in some (IMHO thinking about his book deal). He went looking for trouble and quite frankly found it. Now Geraldo might have been a better one to send on that assignment, perhaps next time. If my brother, the neighbor, the cops, and I are in a free-for-all brawl in my yard and you come over and get in the middle of it for the scoop, don't be surprised if you get hit.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:35:54 AM EDT
Is there any chance that his killing was faked? I guess the video hasn't been made public, not sure it ever will be, but it should get seen by someone expert enough to really assess its veracity. I don't have any desire to view it myself, though.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 4:27:58 AM EDT
As much as I am very saddened by this act, if you are 1)an american, 2) jewish & 3) a reporter and put yourself in a VERY hostile locale you have greatly reduced the prospects of a long life. I think 1Gunrunner was eluding to the fact that greed may have put him in harms way. If not then maybe the blame should go to the employer, if big time publications are going to put their people in these places than they should spend a little more to hire some muscle to be with them. Bottom line is foreign correspondents know risks, and agree to take the chance, he was not an innocent bystander.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 4:40:30 AM EDT
Trust me, if I ever know (if you ever know) the way things work around the Internet, it will be around a month and the video will be available here. Just like that Russian soldier decapp'ed by the Chechnyians. And I won't watch this one, either. Just be thankful those Islamic terrorists did not get their hands on an American soldier! Yet.... Eric The(Saddened)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 8:22:51 AM EDT
War is hell......... especially for the journalists.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 8:46:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Some months ago, the terrorists in the Phillipines cut off the head of an american tourist they kidnapped. Where were the calls for U.S. military action back then??? Are jews supposed to be a group that are to have more government protections or something?
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Of course YOU would think such a thing... and apparently you dont read any posts that lack your own name either...
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Actually, he's right, so now I think such a thing also. Jews have had a way of turning themselves into WWII victims and a protected minority group that noone can criticize without being called an antisemite. Let me guess, thinking like this makes me an antisemite too, right?
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 8:52:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Some months ago, the terrorists in the Phillipines cut off the head of an american tourist they kidnapped. Where were the calls for U.S. military action back then??? Are jews supposed to be a group that are to have more government protections or something?
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Well, it may, in part, be a jewish thing, however, I suspect that it is much more a media thing----nothing is more important than when one of their own (another journalist) is killed. One also cannot help but notice the favorable treatment----the deference if you will---which the family members of the deceased seem to be receiving----you don't see anyone sticking a microphone or cameras in the face of his pregnant wife, mother, father, etc.----like journalists seem to do with just about everyone else who may be momentarily "news worthy".
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 9:15:28 AM EDT
Sounds like a hate crime to me...where is the UN outrage...and the EU outrage... Islam means peace
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 9:21:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Minman72: Actually, he's right, so now I think such a thing also. Jews have had a way of turning themselves into WWII victims and a protected minority group that noone can criticize without being called an antisemite. Let me guess, thinking like this makes me an antisemite too, right?
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Well, possibly. Or maybe just an idiot. Y'see, you CAN'T criticize "Jews" any more than you can criticize "whites" or "blacks" or "Hispanics" because none of them are one giant monolithic entity. If you want to criticize the ADL, go ahead. If you want to criticize the actions of the Israeli government, go ahead. Those are organizations. If you want to criticize Chuck Shumer or Dianne Feinstien, or Sharon or Barak, go ahead. Those are individuals. But only a moron or an antiSemite would criticize "the Jews."
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 11:13:06 AM EDT
Eric, are you by any chance a Messianic Jew??
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 11:57:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2002 12:02:14 PM EDT by Carbine_Man]
One more voice in the crowd. The death of Mr. Pearl is a heinous crime. I sincerely hope that the sub-humans that did this will be hunted down, executed, and stuffed into pig carcasses and left in the sun to be eaten by birds. [b]That being said, [/b]I too am surprised by the shock and outrage expressed over his death. Americans have been kidnapped and murdered all over the place as victims of terrorists and political anarchists. There were other Americans that were kidnapped with the Burnhams in the Phillipines and they were beheaded. The Burnhams have been in captivity now for nine months. Where is the outrage over this? The only reason that "everyone" is outraged about this is because it has hit close to home for members of the media. Because one of the media elite got snatched and murdered, [b]suddenly[/b] these people (terrorists) aren't just reacting (legitimately? they asked) to "American empirialism." Now they're bad, bad people. With respect to the sub-humans that perpetrated this crime, kindly try to remember that they're just being good Muslims following the example of Mohammed. Every Muslim who takes Mohammed's example seriously will do the same [murder infidels] and think he's earning his seventy virgins. Sorry for the repeats of what's been said before. I know I'm "preachin' to the choir." [:|] {edited for typos}
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:22:08 PM EDT
Was it El Salvador that the ABC reporter took one in the head back in the late 70's ???? The news media got everyone fired up over that one, and Pearl, but the news media didn't get anyone fired up over American in The Phillipines. If the ABC guy in El Salvador was not Jewish, then maybe it's just a reporter thing. If the ABC guy was Jewish as well, then maybe it's a Jewish thing. I tend to sway towards the "reporter thing" theory. There are many Jews in this world I can trust, but I can't think of one single reporter I can trust. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 1:05:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Some months ago, the terrorists in the Phillipines cut off the head of an american tourist they kidnapped. Where were the calls for U.S. military action back then??? Are jews supposed to be a group that are to have more government protections or something?
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Aren't US troops already in Philippines Imbroglio? Or am I wrong?
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 1:24:25 PM EDT
It was a hate crime because it was deliberately made against a Jew. It was an anti american crime because it was deliberately made against an american citizien. It was a action against (if you take in account that a legitimate action is based on "peronal responibility") a foreign government that had nothing to do with the murderers because it was deliberately made against Israel. It was a crime against freedom of speech and information (the same right that all of us, RKBA supporters claim and we want unbiased) because it was deliberately made against a journalist. But the "jewish thing" made someone to consider those points of view irrilevant. I don't want to say anything against this people. I want to unite in the silent [i]kaddish[/i] for Daniel, and for all the WTC victims, jewish or not. Because all of them were doing nothing bad and were innocents. And I want JUSTICE... for Daniel and for any other innocent that has been slaughtered in this inhuman way by those self-calling Muslims Terrorists.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 2:23:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2002 9:54:45 AM EDT by JIMBEAM]
They said they kidnapped him and killed him to protest the treatment of the "prisoners" in Cuba. The last time I checked we weren't cutting their heads off.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 4:08:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2002 4:14:20 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By liberty86: Eric, are you by any chance a Messianic Jew??
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Why does he have to be that? If your a Millenial Christian, you also know that their has to be a State of Isreal before there can be a Second Coming? For what its worth and IMHO, I simply think Eric is a educated man who knows that the one called today "Jesus the Christ" was a Rabbi called by his friends and family Yeshu and was a very good man... As to the Philippines, the problem there has been with the Philippine government, Pres Arroyo leads a coalition that depends on the support of the Communists. That is why Bush has spent so much time talking to people in Bejing, who finance and control the Communists in the Philippines. This is why Bejing factors at all in a war against Muslim terrorists who are otherwise all in the Middle East. Oddly enough, I have heard of public opinion polls in the Philippines that are as much as 80% in favor of Americans being allowed to operate in the country- which happens to be against the latest version of the Philippine Constitution, written with the input of Communitsts.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 4:26:43 PM EDT
Point one, Pearl was captured because they wanted an anti-Islam and a JEW. Point two, his statement was not as a braggard, that is what they wanted, to show he was a JEW. Point three, it is a faction of Islam against Israel for who they are, It is a faction of Islam against the U.S. Point four,They are against all non-Islam , but one and three are the top two.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 4:28:33 PM EDT
Now for the Philipines, we are not there until recently because the Constitution forbid foreign troops on their soil, that is why Subic Bay and other places are falling apart....no U.S. $
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 7:12:54 PM EDT
Eric the Hon is a a Messianic Jew. Yes. But to Eric its Reagan that will return for his chosen children, the Jews. :)
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 7:45:36 PM EDT
Post from liberty86 -
Eric, are you by any chance a Messianic Jew??
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I thought I had answered this question, but it must have been on that 'other' thread, that I answered. So for the benefit of this thread, my answer is: No. [b]I'm a messianic Christian[/b]. I believe in the [u]return[/u] of the Jewish Messiah, Who was, and is, and will always be, none other than Jesus of Nazareth. And insofar as I am sometimes mistaken for a Jew, I find that high praise indeed! My Master was, is, and will always be, a Jew! And I find all true Jews to be very much as I am - worshipful of G-d, watchful for the coming of the Messiah, and with hearts open to His Word! That's what my Bible teaches me, what does yours teach you? Eric The(OnlyDifference-WeKnowMessiah'sName!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 8:15:31 PM EDT
Just kidding you, Hon. Don't get mad. You're one of the sharper tools in this shed. We agree on this Jesus.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 8:33:59 PM EDT
Post from grimshaw -
Just kidding you, Hon. Don't get mad. You're one of the sharper tools in this shed. We agree on this Jesus.
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That said, it is [u]you[/u], Sir, who are one of the sharper tools in this shed. I'm glad that we think this way on this and, I am most certain, on a great many other matters, as well. Eric The(Amen)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 9:11:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: So for the benefit of this thread, my answer is: No. [b]I'm a messianic Christian[/b]. I believe in the [u]return[/u] of the Jewish Messiah, Who was, and is, and will always be, none other than Jesus of Nazareth. And insofar as I am sometimes mistaken for a Jew, I find that high praise indeed! My Master was, is, and will always be, a Jew! And I find all true Jews to be very much as I am - worshipful of G-d, watchful for the coming of the Messiah, and with hearts open to His Word! Eric The(OnlyDifference-WeKnowMessiah'sName!)Hun[>]:)]
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E.T. Hun, I need some clarification please. Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah. Jews are waiting for the coming of the Messiah. Are you saying the Messiah for whom the Jews wait is the same Messiah - Jesus - who has already come ? [?]
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 9:16:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PaoloAR15: And I want JUSTICE... for Daniel and for any other innocent that has been slaughtered in this inhuman way by those self-calling Muslims Terrorists.
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And I want JUSTICE for ALL innocents slaughtered - no matter by whom. (I do not limit my desire for Justice to only those innocents slaughtered by Muslim Terrorists.)
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:03:44 AM EDT
Eric, thought I had lost this thread ! Still need some clarification please.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:09:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: Was it El Salvador that the ABC reporter took one in the head back in the late 70's ????
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Bill Stewart; Managua, Nicaragua; 1979. The reason I remember is that he was my mother's high-school boyfriend, and she was watching it live when it happened. Talk about someone being upset....
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:32:44 AM EDT
Mr Hun... You da man!!! Just thought I would let you in on that. I too offer up a prayer for Pearl and his family. Why don't we let the Mossad handle this investigation?
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:46:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: So for the benefit of this thread, my answer is: No. [b]I'm a messianic Christian[/b]. I believe in the [u]return[/u] of the Jewish Messiah, Who was, and is, and will always be, none other than Jesus of Nazareth. And insofar as I am sometimes mistaken for a Jew, I find that high praise indeed! My Master was, is, and will always be, a Jew! And I find all true Jews to be very much as I am - worshipful of G-d, watchful for the coming of the Messiah, and with hearts open to His Word! Eric The(OnlyDifference-WeKnowMessiah'sName!)Hun[>]:)]
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E.T. Hun, I need some clarification please. Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah. Jews are waiting for the coming of the Messiah. Are you saying the Messiah for whom the Jews wait is the same Messiah - Jesus - who has already come ? [?]
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Eric ?
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:49:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: That's what my Bible teaches me, what does yours teach you? Eric The(OnlyDifference-WeKnowMessiah'sName!)Hun[>]:)]
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That ALL descendants of Adam are in the same boat! Approach the Father through Iesous or die....
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 8:09:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: So for the benefit of this thread, my answer is: No. [b]I'm a messianic Christian[/b]. I believe in the [u]return[/u] of the Jewish Messiah, Who was, and is, and will always be, none other than Jesus of Nazareth. And insofar as I am sometimes mistaken for a Jew, I find that high praise indeed! My Master was, is, and will always be, a Jew! And I find all true Jews to be very much as I am - worshipful of G-d, watchful for the coming of the Messiah, and with hearts open to His Word! Eric The(OnlyDifference-WeKnowMessiah'sName!)Hun[>]:)]
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E.T. Hun, I need some clarification please. Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah. Jews are waiting for the coming of the Messiah. Are you saying the Messiah for whom the Jews wait is the same Messiah - Jesus - who has already come ? [?]
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ERIC !!
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 8:33:44 AM EDT
Post from 5subslr5 -
ERIC !!
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Yes, present, Sir! (Sorry, I was on another thread, the dreaded USS Liberty thread, putting down what my beliefs on the Messiah are) You may want to go there for clarification, but, if you're studiously trying to avoid that thread (as I would like to do), then I will give you the sort and skinny of my views here: Yes, Jesus was the long awaited and much prophesied Jewish Messiah! And Yes, these very Jews are awaiting the coming of their Messiah, while we Christians, and messianic Jews, are awaiting His return! We, both Jews and Christians, are awaiting the arrival of the same Messiah, the only difference being is that Christians know His name. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus was not accepted by the Jews when He first appeared because they were looking for a Messiah that was called 'the greater than King David.' This 'greater than King David' Messiah was to come and bring righteous vengence upon all the world. First Century Jews would have expected him to, at the very least, kill every single Roman soldier, woman and child in Palestine! And to set up a throne after the throne of his father, King David! (Sort of a modern State of Israel, heh, heh) Other First Century Jews would not have been satisfied until and unless the Messiah killed every Roman soldier, man, woman and child on the face of the planet and compelled the remaining Gentiles to become their servants. Such Jews fully expected something like 144,000 Gentiles to be each of their personal servants! Holding up the hems of their garments as they walked or were carried about Jerusalem and its precincts. So when this 'suffering servant' type of Messiah named 'Jesus of Nazareth' came along, the bulk of Judaism rejected His mild manner, and His teaching that vengeance was always wrong and to turn the other cheek to your enemies! What poppycock, they must have thought, would King David have thought and acted like this? Not no, but Hell no. And when Jesus was executed by the hated Romans it was justice in their eyes to a lying and deceptive blasphemer! 'C'mon would the [u]real[/u] Messiah permit those Roman dogs to treat Him in such a cruel and unclean manner?' He died upon a [u]tree[/u], which was an ancient curse in the eyes of the Jews! His death at Calvary would have been the very last straw in an argument against His being the Messiah. Well, it's been 2,000 years since that Good Friday, where in the dickens is that Jewish Messiah? There were 400 years of silence from Heaven between the writings of Malachi (the last prophet) until the voice of John the Baptist was heard crying in the Judean wilderness, making way for the arrival of the Messiah. If John the Baptist was wrong, and Jesus was not the Messiah, then Heaven's voice has not been shut up for 400 years, but an amazing 2,400 years! [b]Think about that![/b] Eric The(ItKeepsMeOnTheStraightAndNarrow!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 9:28:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from 5subslr5 - ERIC !! Yes, present, Sir! (Sorry, I was on another thread, the dreaded USS Liberty thread, putting down what my beliefs on the Messiah are) Yes, Jesus was the long awaited and much prophesied Jewish Messiah! This 'greater than King David' Messiah was to come and bring righteous vengence upon all the world. First Century Jews would have expected him to, at the very least, kill every single Roman soldier, woman and child in Palestine! And to set up a throne after the throne of his father, King David! (Sort of a modern State of Israel, heh, heh) Other First Century Jews would not have been satisfied until and unless the Messiah killed every Roman soldier, man, woman and child on the face of the planet and compelled the remaining Gentiles to become their servants. Such Jews fully expected something like 144,000 Gentiles to be each of their personal servants! Holding up the hems of their garments as they walked or were carried about Jerusalem and its precincts.
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Some would say this jewish idea has not altogether disappeared in modern times...
So when this 'suffering servant' type of Messiah named 'Jesus of Nazareth' came along, the bulk of Judaism rejected His mild manner, and His teaching that vengeance was always wrong and to turn the other cheek to your enemies!
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This "vengeance" idea not to be confused with self-defense..
Well, it's been 2,000 years since that Good Friday, where in the dickens is that Jewish Messiah?
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If they don't recognize him before he shows up for dinner, won't it be too late when dinner is served?
There were 400 years of silence from Heaven between the writings of Malachi (the last prophet) until the voice of John the Baptist was heard crying in the Judean wilderness, making way for the arrival of the Messiah. If John the Baptist was wrong, and Jesus was not the Messiah, then Heaven's voice has not been shut up for 400 years, but an amazing 2,400 years!
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And there's the beauty of the Book! Did not this Jesus ride into town on the VERY DAY foretold? The fulfillment of all prophecy proves the Bible's case....
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[b]Think about that![/b] Eric The(ItKeepsMeOnTheStraightAndNarrow!)Hun[>]:)]
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Link Posted: 2/24/2002 11:11:10 AM EDT
Boy you guys sure know how to screw up a thread! BTW ETH why does your topic use ''s instead of ""s?
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