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Posted: 5/2/2011 12:12:13 PM EDT


"For over two decades, bin Laden has been al-Qaida’s leader and symbol...
Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader"



~ Obama, 5/1/11 announcing Bin Laden's death.
What the hell does that mean!?
Was he a Muslim? Obviously yes.
Was he a Leader? Obviously, yes. He was the "Leader" of Al Qaeda.
Did he lead Muslims? Again, obviously yes, he was the leader of thousands of radical Muslims for 20 years and, as we can now see, he was beloved by MILLIONS of Muslims all over the world - who are now out condemning us for killing him and for how we dumped his body in the ocean.





He was OBVIOUSLY a "leader" of "Muslims" who used Islam as a justification for his war on America.
Islamic scholars criticize bin Laden's sea burial
Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of
Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said Sheik
Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni
Islam's highest seat of learning.
               


A radical
cleric in Lebanon, Omar Bakri Mohammed, said, "The Americans want to
humiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in the
interest of the U.S. administration."


.


.


.


President Barack Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance
with Islamic custom, which requires speedy burial, and the Pentagon
later said the body was placed into the waters of the northern Arabian
Sea after adhering to traditional Islamic procedures — including
washing the corpse — aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.


.


.


.









So apparently everybody seems to be saying that Bin Laden was a devout Muslim who should be given the full religious respect due to him under Islamic religious law...




So what the hell exactly did Obama mean when he spewed the line that "
Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader"












 

 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:14:34 PM EDT
Well, maybe he meant that Usama wasn't Mohamed?


Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:14:35 PM EDT
I guess to be fair, he was a Muslim leader in the same way that Bush was a Christian leader.  Not really the meaning that the phrase is meant to convey.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:14:38 PM EDT
The word games we play to insulate guys like OBL from Muslims is sickening.

I noticed on the address last night, that Zero said OBL was a "mass murderer" and not a Muslim at all. I am guessing that a LOT of people would disagree with that...
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:15:57 PM EDT
IBB_A



They're all terrorists at heart.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:18:56 PM EDT
"including washing of the corpse"?

I hope he was washed in fresh urine
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:21:57 PM EDT







Quoted:




I guess to be fair, he was a Muslim leader in the same way that Bush was a Christian leader.  Not really the meaning that the phrase is meant to convey.



No one ever said Bush was or wasn't a Christian Leader.





But what IS a "Muslim Leader"?
If Osama's not a "Muslim Leader", then WHO is and what by what authority do the other radical clerics, Imams and Grand Sunni Leaders act who are now outraged over how Bin Laden was handled?
 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:25:02 PM EDT
Quoted:
IBB_A

They're all terrorists at heart.


Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:49:41 PM EDT
You will accept and internalize that statement if you know what's good for you.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:56:43 PM EDT
I think Obama's statement is the correct one to make. I'm not saying it is accurate, but it makes sense to try to build as much of a wedge between ordinary Muslims and the likes of bin laden as possible.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 12:58:32 PM EDT
Quoted:
I think Obama's statement is the correct one to make. I'm not saying it is accurate, but it makes sense to try to build as much of a wedge between ordinary Muslims and the likes of bin laden as possible.


Why?
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 1:44:21 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think Obama's statement is the correct one to make. I'm not saying it is accurate, but it makes sense to try to build as much of a wedge between ordinary Muslims and the likes of bin laden as possible.


Why?


Sometimes I think the US general population won't understand that propaganda is more than tacky antique posters, until Winston Churchhill himself beats their heads in with a trout.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 1:47:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 1:50:18 PM EDT
Why, I learned on this very board that Osama was just a big meanie who completely missed the meaning of the Quran - all the real muslims ignore or explain away all the bad parts.






















Link Posted: 5/2/2011 2:03:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
"including washing of the corpse"?

I hope he was washed in fresh urine bacon grease


Link Posted: 5/2/2011 2:16:17 PM EDT
the Pentagon later said the body was placed into the waters of the northern Arabian Sea after adhering to traditional Islamic procedures — including washing the corpse — aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.


WTF? are we doing that for? Paying respect to that asswipe.

If they didn't want a shrine for his death, fine, then dump the fucking body, but to adhere to Muslim tradition including washing the body is paying respect to that piece of fucking shitface.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 2:47:10 PM EDT
Quoted:
the Pentagon later said the body was placed into the waters of the northern Arabian Sea after adhering to traditional Islamic procedures — including washing the corpse — aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.


WTF? are we doing that for? Paying respect to that asswipe.

If they didn't want a shrine for his death, fine, then dump the fucking body, but to adhere to Muslim tradition including washing the body is paying respect to that piece of fucking shitface.


Or just dump the body, and say we followed their traditions. No reason to attack the rest of the religion, when you just killed the man, especially if he martyrizes easy.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 2:49:57 PM EDT
He wasn't a Muslim leader.

All AQ are Muslim, but not all Muslims are AQ.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 3:02:21 PM EDT
Obama has in depth knowledge about Osama that we are not privy too. He is also an expert on muslim affairs and protocol (see "burial at sea").

It's possible that when Obama visited Pakistan in his student days he may even have met Bin Laden?

Have some faith people. Certainly he is more knowledgable than you or I.

Quoted:
Well, maybe he meant that Usama wasn't Mohamed?



No, Mohamed was the fellow he stayed with on his trip to Pakistan. Mohamed Hasan Chandoo, to be precise.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 3:03:20 PM EDT
It's the same as saying Islam is the religion of peace.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 3:04:04 PM EDT
It's like a girl friend: just a girl who's your friend.  FBO.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:06:03 PM EDT



Quoted:


He wasn't a Muslim leader.



All AQ are Muslim, but not all Muslims are AQ.




That's like saying a Sunni cleric or Imam isn't a Muslim leader because, although all Sunni are Muslim not all Muslims are Sunni.





Back to the original question: What does it mean to be a "Muslim Leader"?
 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:20:51 PM EDT




Quoted:

He wasn't a Muslim leader.



All AQ are Muslim, but not all Muslims are AQ.




He WAS a muslim leader. Just not a leader to all muslims.





To try to minimize that he was most definitely a representative of a sect of Islam is being very disingenuous at best.
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 6:32:03 AM EDT



Quoted:





Quoted:

He wasn't a Muslim leader.



All AQ are Muslim, but not all Muslims are AQ.




He WAS a muslim leader. Just not a leader to all muslims.





To try to minimize that he was most definitely a representative of a sect of Islam is being very disingenuous at best.


Yep.
 
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 8:09:49 AM EDT



Quoted:





Quoted:

He wasn't a Muslim leader.



All AQ are Muslim, but not all Muslims are AQ.




He WAS a muslim leader. Just not a leader to all muslims.





To try to minimize that he was most definitely a representative of a sect of Islam is being very disingenuous at best.


Does it make sense to call both the pope and David Koresh Christian leaders?



 
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 8:14:52 AM EDT





Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


He wasn't a Muslim leader.





All AQ are Muslim, but not all Muslims are AQ.






He WAS a muslim leader. Just not a leader to all muslims.
To try to minimize that he was most definitely a representative of a sect of Islam is being very disingenuous at best.



Does it make sense to call both the pope and David Koresh Christian leaders?


 



Does it make sense to go out of one's way to say the "Bin Laden was NOT a Muslim leader"?





That begs the question of what IS a Muslim Leader?
 
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 8:17:02 AM EDT
Quoted:
Does it make sense to go out of one's way to say the "Bin Laden was NOT a Muslim leader"?

 


To make the point that the United States is not in the business of killing Muslim leaders?  And OBL wasn't a Muslim leader.
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 8:28:12 AM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:

Does it make sense to go out of one's way to say the "Bin Laden was NOT a Muslim leader"?



 




To make the point that the United States is not in the business of killing Muslim leaders?  And OBL wasn't a Muslim leader.




Who are we trying to point this out to?



Muslims?



Wouldn't they already know who their religious leaders are?



I thought Bin Laden was not following "true" Islam. So why re-connect him back to Islam just to say he wasn't a Muslim leader?





This is the point - there is NO ONE on earth who can say what "true" Islam is, and NO ONE on earth can say, with any religious authority, that OBL was not a "Muslim Leader".



What it really shows is that, in trying so hard to deny Bin Laden's symbolic and religious leadership among thousands (or millions) of Muslims around the world - they actually underscore his role as a "Muslim leader".



The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
 
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 8:31:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 9:12:37 AM EDT
"For over two decades, bin Laden has been al-Qaida’s leader and symbol... Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader"
~ Obama, 5/1/11 announcing Bin Laden's death.



Yeah, tell that to all those Muslim kids wearing bin Laden t-shirts, just like college commies and their Che t-shirts.
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 9:14:44 AM EDT
Quoted:

"For over two decades, bin Laden has been al-Qaida’s leader and symbol...
Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader"
~ Obama, 5/1/11 announcing Bin Laden's death.


What the hell does that mean!?

Was he a Muslim? Obviously yes.

Was he a Leader? Obviously, yes. He was the "Leader" of Al Qaeda.

Did he lead Muslims? Again, obviously yes, he was the leader of thousands of radical Muslims for 20 years and, as we can now see, he was beloved by MILLIONS of Muslims all over the world - who are now out condemning us for killing him and for how we dumped his body in the ocean.

He was OBVIOUSLY a "leader" of "Muslims" who used Islam as a justification for his war on America.



Islamic scholars criticize bin Laden's sea burial

Bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles ofIslamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs," said SheikAhmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, SunniIslam's highest seat of learning.                
A radicalcleric in Lebanon, Omar Bakri Mohammed, said, "The Americans want tohumiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in theinterest of the U.S. administration."
.
.
.
President Barack Obama said the remains had been handled in accordancewith Islamic custom, which requires speedy burial, and the Pentagonlater said the body was placed into the waters of the northern ArabianSea after adhering to traditional Islamic procedures — includingwashing the corpse — aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson.
.
.
.


So apparently everybody seems to be saying that Bin Laden was a devout Muslim who should be given the full religious respect due to him under Islamic religious law...



So what the hell exactly did Obama mean when he spewed the line that "
Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader"



 
 


Adhering to Muslim practice for the burial wasn't for Osama, it was for our image and the guys on the front lines.
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 9:15:19 AM EDT
Quoted:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
 


I agree

Link Posted: 5/3/2011 9:15:25 AM EDT
He may not have been their leader but he sure as fuck was their fucking hero!
Link Posted: 5/3/2011 3:54:12 PM EDT




Quoted:





Quoted:





Quoted:

He wasn't a Muslim leader.



All AQ are Muslim, but not all Muslims are AQ.




He WAS a muslim leader. Just not a leader to all muslims.





To try to minimize that he was most definitely a representative of a sect of Islam is being very disingenuous at best.


Does it make sense to call both the pope and David Koresh Christian leaders?





Did Koresh have hundreds of thousands that followed what he said?
I believe the question should be how many people does it take to make a 'sect' of a religion?





I would say Koresh and his followers would not be enough.



However I would call Mormons, 7th Day Adventists and Pentecostals sects of Christianity.
Without a doubt this is a very gray area.  
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