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Posted: 1/8/2005 8:36:50 PM EDT
When I see cop shows (CSI, L&O, etc) they'll say something about "Registered Gunowners" or "A Colt registered to him"


I thought there wasn't such thing as "registered" guns (save maybe CA or NY).

Didn't Hitler say something like "For the first time a civilized nation has complete gun registration..."?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:44:26 PM EDT
Idiots who don't know any better.

Half the guys I work with think the same thing and won't listen when I try to tell them differently.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:46:11 PM EDT
You must register your handguns in Michigan.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:49:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 8:52:46 PM EDT by Pangea]
Some have to register. IIRC Illinois has a FOID card.

That Hitler quote is bogus. Go to snopes and see. I couldn't find it there.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:56:26 PM EDT
People seem to think that filling out a 4473 form means you have registered the gun. In one way you have. But the .gov doesn't get that "registration" form until the dealer closes shop. Which may be years from now. Or tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:58:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
People seem to think that filling out a 4473 form means you have registered the gun. In one way you have. But the .gov doesn't get that "registration" form until the dealer closes shop. Which may be years from now. Or tomorrow.



EXACTLY. My friend with an FFL told me that and I looked at him like "WTF?". What's the point of a 4473 form if the government doesn't get it until he retires from transferring?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 8:59:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Some have to register. IIRC Illinois has a FOID card.

That Hitler quote is bogus. Go to snopes and see. I couldn't find it there.



Correct, the Hitler quote is not accurate.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:02:14 PM EDT
Bound books and 4473's can get a lot of damage at the USPS when mailed in - they always seem to drop the envelopes next to the mail boxes during a hard rain storm.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:03:21 PM EDT
Everything gets registered in NJ when you buy it.....even BB guns.......yes...BB guns. If you have a legally purchased rifle, pistol, or shotgun....be it centerfire, black powder, or CO2......somewhere....in a police dept...there is a file with your name and the serial number in it.

I moved.
Sold everything I owned in NJ....replaced them all with unregistered weapons in my new state.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:03:39 PM EDT

(save maybe CA or NY)

It's not just CA or NY. Here in SC we have to register new pistols and used pistols bought from a dealer with the state police. Unlike the 4473, the state police here does receive and keep a copy of the registration.z
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:18:59 PM EDT
I gonna make this real quick. Remember that scene in Red Dawn where they look up 4427 forms? Yes filling out that yellow sheet is the same as Registration, BUT! and like J-lo , this is a big butt, It is not on a central computer base so tracing takes effort and man power. A perfect example is the D.C. Sniper case. Once the gun cartridge was idenifiied as .223 then all the feds went to all the gun shops in a radius around DC pairing down the type of guns sold with .223 in the last year. Then they literally went door to door asking the purchaser to show the Gun and maybe ask a few questions. A profile was also used, They thought probably 'Angry loner white male' type, I mean com'on Black people just don't do that sort of thing. So yes in effect the 4427 is a form of "paper trail". This whole nonsense that it only goes to the ATF after they close is BS. These records can be inspected at any time given a proper warrant.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:21:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Some have to register. IIRC Illinois has a FOID card.



IL does have the Firearm Owner'd IDentification card, but registration of weapons is done at a municipal level, if at all.

Except of course in chicago, where all guns must be registered, either within 10 days of purchase, or 30 days of occupying your residence...

<­BR>



OOOPS! Did we forget to mention that we stopping allowing new registrations in 1986?

City of Chicago Gun owners

Sorry 'bout that!


FUCKDALEY
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:22:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
.



4473
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:35:41 PM EDT

These records can be inspected at any time given a proper warrant.


Does the ATF need a warrant? Couldn't they just show up to any gun shop and take digital pictures of all the 4473 forms they have on file?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:50:47 PM EDT
The only way to own a handgun in NY is to have a permit ,
and every one you own is listed on the back of your permit
by make , caliber and serial #

Long guns only need to be registered in NYC .
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:57:46 AM EDT
New registration of handguns became prohibited in the City of Chicago in 1982, under then Mayor Jane Byrne. Handguns registered prior to 1982 then became "Grandfathered." One could not legally register their handgun in the City of Chicago after 1982.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 1:16:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 1:17:30 AM EDT by smokycity]

Originally Posted By Guth:

These records can be inspected at any time given a proper warrant.


Does the ATF need a warrant? Couldn't they just show up to any gun shop and take digital pictures of all the 4473 forms they have on file?



ATF could show up and take them, make copies, or what ever they want to do with them. They can shut down the store and inspect every item in the business. ATF can trace a firearm fairly easily to the end dealer if it is a new gun. The gun leaves the factory, goes to a distributor, who sells it to a dealer, who sells it to you. Once it leaves the store, the 4473 serves as the record to the last known lawful purchaser/transferee/owner of the firearm. If you sell it in a private sale, and it gets sold again and again, then it becomes more difficult to trace. Unless you are required to "register" it locally. This is why some folks, who aren't required to register/have a permit to own, find it appealing to buy second hand in a private sale. No paperwork and often no names exchanged, other than Jackson, Grant, and Franklin.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:04:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:01:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By smokycity:

Originally Posted By Guth:

These records can be inspected at any time given a proper warrant.


Does the ATF need a warrant? Couldn't they just show up to any gun shop and take digital pictures of all the 4473 forms they have on file?



ATF could show up and take them, make copies, or what ever they want to do with them. They can shut down the store and inspect every item in the business. ATF can trace a firearm fairly easily to the end dealer if it is a new gun. The gun leaves the factory, goes to a distributor, who sells it to a dealer, who sells it to you. Once it leaves the store, the 4473 serves as the record to the last known lawful purchaser/transferee/owner of the firearm. If you sell it in a private sale, and it gets sold again and again, then it becomes more difficult to trace. Unless you are required to "register" it locally. This is why some folks, who aren't required to register/have a permit to own, find it appealing to buy second hand in a private sale. No paperwork and often no names exchanged, other than Jackson, Grant, and Franklin.





Here's a very good read by James H. Jeffries III... on how to handle the BATF - EVERYONE should read this whether a FFL or not.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:15:57 AM EDT
Tagged for above article.

The only registering any of my guns needed was cash registering.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:25:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
People seem to think that filling out a 4473 form means you have registered the gun. In one way you have. But the .gov doesn't get that "registration" form until the dealer closes shop. Which may be years from now. Or tomorrow.



My FFL makes a phone call and talks to a govt employee.
I'm usually not listening. What do they talk about?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:35:23 AM EDT
If in regards to a firearms purchase, probably an Instant Check like here in Georgia
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:45:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 4:48:50 AM EDT by MikeTx]
The way 4473 works is that it stays with the dealer until they retire. If the law comes to a crime scenes and finds a gun, they contact the munfacturer to find out who that gun was originally sold to. It would be an FFL. That FFL is contacted and told to pull the 4473 on that gun and give them the info on who bought it. Then the hunt is on, and they get lucky if the original buyer is still the owner. So you can see why they want to outlaw private sales and such.


Idiots who don't know any better.


No, they know. They are playing an agenda to make people think that guns ARE registered everywhere. You might be surprised how many people believe the nonsense they see in tv shows.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:51:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By daddy_steve:
If in regards to a firearms purchase, probably an Instant Check like here in Georgia



Thanks

" On November 30, 1998 , the final (permanent) provisions of the federal “Brady Act” went into effect. These provisions require an instant background check on persons wishing to purchase long guns (rifles/shotguns) as well as handguns. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) established the National Instant Check System (NICS) as required by the final provisions of the “Brady Act”. The NICS system made available federal databases from the Department of Defense, Immigration and Naturalization, Secret Service, Veterans Administration, Department of Transportation, and the U.S. State Department which contain information on persons prohibited from possessing firearms as a result of the following prohibitions:

Dishonorable Discharge from Military Service and Coast Guard
Illegal/Unlawful Alien
Secret Service Protective File
Mental Health and Controlled Substance Abuse
Persons Who Renounce Their Citizenship

In addition to the federal databases, the Georgia Firearms Program checks the following databases:

Georgia Criminal Histories, including Misdemeanor Family Violence Convictions
FBI Criminal Histories
State and National Wanted Person Records
State and National Protection Order Records
Georgia Mental Health – Involuntary Hospitalizations "

So, is a record kept stating that this individual, who is clear of those exceptions, purchased a firearm?

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:59:51 AM EDT

So, is a record kept stating that this individual, who is clear of those exceptions, purchased a firearm?


They're not supposed to, but it is the .gov....

also, this info pertains to Georgia only, don't know about Florida or other states, which I would assume would/could be different.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:06:38 AM EDT
Which states dont participate in the NICS?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:16:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I gonna make this real quick. Remember that scene in Red Dawn where they look up 4427 forms? Yes filling out that yellow sheet is the same as Registration, BUT! and like J-lo , this is a big butt, It is not on a central computer base so tracing takes effort and man power. A perfect example is the D.C. Sniper case. Once the gun cartridge was idenifiied as .223 then all the feds went to all the gun shops in a radius around DC pairing down the type of guns sold with .223 in the last year. Then they literally went door to door asking the purchaser to show the Gun and maybe ask a few questions. A profile was also used, They thought probably 'Angry loner white male' type, I mean com'on Black people just don't do that sort of thing. So yes in effect the 4427 is a form of "paper trail". This whole nonsense that it only goes to the ATF after they close is BS. These records can be inspected at any time given a proper warrant.



big plus one to this.I was working in the store I work part time the night before they caught the badguys,and the atf showed up and wanted to pull all of our 4473 forms going back to 9/11 on anyone that had bought and ar.They were as nice and professional as could be,and the lady agent had huge boobiesThey did look at me a little funny everytime they found my name(four times).She would just say,thats you again huh.Yea that is me.Had to sign a form to release them,they took them to office max to make copies,came back like an hour later to return the originals.Then I was questioned about anyone buying large amounts of 223 lately etc.I imagine I would have been visited if the shitheads hadnt been caught the next day.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:31:05 AM EDT
Other than the 4473, my carry gun is not registered as IN does not require it. I go into MI quite often. I've often wondered this: MI recognizes my IN CCW permit but I must follow MI laws. MI requires a green card (registration) for a handgun. I must also immediately tell the officer that I am carrying when stopped for a traffic violation.

What is going to happen when he finds out that my weapon is not registered? If I don't tell him of the weapon, will he be informed of my CCW when he runs my DL?? How pissed will he be that he wasn't informed by me? Damned if I do and Damned if I don't??
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:36:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 5:39:27 AM EDT by bgcc11]
oops
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:38:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nozzleman:
Other than the 4473, my carry gun is not registered as IN does not require it.



If I'm reading the 4473 and the backround thing correctly, what you've said is kinda like saying "other than income, sales and property taxes, I don't pay taxes".
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:49:14 AM EDT
You'd be surprised at the number if idiots that will ask hunters, shooters, etc "Is that gun registered?"


WTF? How do you register a gun in a state that has no registration?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:03:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Bound books and 4473's can get a lot of damage at the USPS when mailed in - they always seem to drop the envelopes next to the mail boxes during a hard rain storm.



Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:12:26 AM EDT
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