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Posted: 10/29/2006 7:38:59 PM EST
Do any of you guys practice this style? I tried it on for size today and was pretty happy with the results. I didn't look at the sights at all, just pointed for COM and pulled the trigger. Lo and behold, at 7 yards, I was pretty successful at bringing my weapon up from waist height to chest height and popping one off without aiming and without looking at the sights at all.

I didn't even steady the weapon. I just brought it up and shot.

I remember hearing about this somewhere but can't remember just where I got it from.

I wasn't going for accuracy really, just wanted to see how fast I could raise up my gun and point it at something and hit it.

Any of you guys shoot that way?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:41:21 PM EST
Go Fairbairn or go home!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:42:04 PM EST
all the time!

fyi, some pistols "point" better than others. I cant point a SIG to save my ass, but 1911's are perfect for me.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:46:14 PM EST
depends on what i am shooting, as well as distances


when shooting sporting clays, i NEVER NEVER NEVER look at my sights. (i guess that goes for all of my bird hunting.)

i shoot decently, ranging from mid 70's to high 80's most of the time.

handguns, it really depends on the distance.

the trick to shooting with this method is consistency.

hold the gun in question exactly the same way, every single time you fire it.
the second trick is practice!!!

i will sit in my house and practice my grip, as well as practice bringing the handgun up and aiming at certain objects. i will focus on the object for a number of seconds, then while continuing to focus on the object, will bring the handgun up to aiming point. i will not move the gun for several seconds before checking where my aimpoint is.

I have been known to do this for several hours.

practice, even when you are not at the range, makes perfect.

and, as mel gibson said in The Patriot, "Aim small, miss small"
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:48:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:
all the time!

fyi, some pistols "point" better than others. I cant point a SIG to save my ass, but 1911's are perfect for me.


Same here, on both counts.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:49:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Brians_45:

Originally Posted By gaspain:
all the time!

fyi, some pistols "point" better than others. I cant point a SIG to save my ass, but 1911's are perfect for me.


Same here, on both counts.


1911's work very well for me, as well as beretta 92's.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:54:04 PM EST
A Glock works well for me, but for some reason, I just can't shoot a 1911 well at all. And that sucks, because I really like 1911's.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:54:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 7:56:57 PM EST by MonkeyGrip]
I never did this until I shot in USPSA pistol competiions for while. Now I can point shoot real good out to distances of 10yds. It's a great skill to develop.

I don't practice it much on purpose, 'cause it seems like a waste of ammo, but USPSA practical course are often set up with many real close in targets, so I get to practice it quite a bit in matches.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:07:43 PM EST
sometimes

supposidly, only 3%-5% of all shoots at ranges are at pointshoot territory, but thats just what a reputable trainer said in magazine

but yea, i see point shooting as a viable training forte
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:23:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zardoz:
A Glock works well for me, but for some reason, I just can't shoot a 1911 well at all. And that sucks, because I really like 1911's.


I'm the exact opposite. I wish I could shoot my G19 like I do my 1911, but it just doesn't happen.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:24:52 PM EST
Point shooting and hip shooting work if you practice a lot, aiming always works.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:30:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Point shooting and hip shooting work if you practice a lot, aiming always works.


I suppose aiming works when you have the time.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:47:10 PM EST
I used to have a US Army training manual that gave detailed instructions for point shooting with a pistol.

I've tried it a few times, but I don't practice it regularly. I can do it fairly well with my Glock 17, not so well with my 1911.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:52:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Point shooting and hip shooting work if you practice a lot, aiming always works.


I suppose aiming works when you have the time.


Not having time to aim is a myth. The fact is, you don't have enoough time....to miss.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:56:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Point shooting and hip shooting work if you practice a lot, aiming always works.


I suppose aiming works when you have the time.


Not having time to aim is a myth. The fact is, you don't have enoough time....to miss.


I have to agree.

When I took my class at Tiger Valley I was able to draw, aim and fire scoring COM shots in about a second and a half pretty consistently. If you practice drawing, aiming and firing you can get pretty damn quick.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 9:14:33 PM EST
Nailed a pig in the forehead with a .357 last year. Just drew, cocked the hammer, and fired all in one motion and plugged the sucker.

Got a group of about 1" on a plywood target from about the same distance with the same gun, using the sights. I rarely get the opportunity to use a handgun. No ranges near campus, the closest one to home is too expensive, and my parents get pissy if I shoot more than a magazine or two at our ranch because it'll scare the animals away.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:14:19 PM EST
Typically at the range for qualification, I draw, close my eyes and fire. Sometimes I run backwards and trip. Lots of fun!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:33:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Riafdnal:
Typically at the range for qualification, I draw, close my eyes and fire. Sometimes I run backwards and trip. Lots of fun!


Wanna buy a .500 A-Square pistol?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:45:09 AM EST
I do both. I usually spend a 100rds or so working on fundamentals, then move to another 250rds of tactical drills.

I don't find myself actively looking for a sight picture until the range gets beyond 15 yards. As a matter of fact, I become so focused on the target that I don't actually see the pistol itself.



Sheep
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 1:53:51 AM EST
I have grown up with firearms of all types.
I learned from a very young age to know the point of impact of whatever firearm I happen to be shooting.
I do practice "point shooting" as some people call it.
When I was shooting for the LEO team, I had the coach remove the sights from my 1911 for a demonstration to the rest of the team.
There was zero difference in my scores at our normal qual. courses.
Yes I do own a few rifles that have elephant raping a earthworm scope on them. That comes with age. But most of my shooting is in the less then 100 yard range, and I know my weapons and the ammo.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:31:34 AM EST
The slide of my G-17 got pushed of my bench. OOHHH!
It hit the floor breaking off the rear Adj. sight. I shot the weapon just fine using the "point shoot" method.
never noticed the missing sight Yes, I did eventually get a new rear sight.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:35:34 AM EST


I practice point shooting for up close targets (5 to 10 yards) and use the sights beyond that. I am sure there will be someone coming along shortly to abuse the point shooters.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:45:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 2:47:10 AM EST by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
Do any of you guys practice this style? I tried it on for size today and was pretty happy with the results. I didn't look at the sights at all, just pointed for COM and pulled the trigger. Lo and behold, at 7 yards, I was pretty successful at bringing my weapon up from waist height to chest height and popping one off without aiming and without looking at the sights at all.


At 7 yards you have time to use the sights.

Do so.

"Point" shooting should be limited to use at distances where you really do not have time to use the sights, such as a little more than arm's distance.




I wasn't going for accuracy really, just wanted to see how fast I could raise up my gun and point it at something and hit it.

Any of you guys shoot that way?


No, because once I went through decent training I found out how quickly and accurately you can use your sights and actually be able to tell an investigating officer or a grand jury that I knew exactly where I was putting a round.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:57:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Point shooting and hip shooting work if you practice a lot, aiming always works.


I suppose aiming works when you have the time.


Not having time to aim is a myth. The fact is, you don't have enoough time....to miss.


Ever had the mafioso chasing you while evading arrest?

Ain't no time to aim.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:02:21 AM EST
D.R. Middlebrooks at the Tactical Shooting Academy: check out his website.
I've seen this man point shoot (his EAA Witness does not have any sights) out to 100 yards. I'm getting ready to take his course soon. It's in Surrey, Virginia.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:19:59 AM EST
I do point shoot, and am pretty effective at it out to 7 yards, or maybe a little further.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:21:42 AM EST
Not wanting to start a pissing match but:


Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
At 7 yards you have time to use the sights.

Do so.


Not always. Speaking from personal experience here.


Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
"Point" shooting should be limited to use at distances where you really do not have time to use the sights, such as a little more than arm's distance.


Agreed, but conversely, the ability to rapidly put rounds on target instinctivly trumps wasting time trying to find the front sight. Requires significant training time. If you can do this, then looking at your target > looking for your sights. Going to have to disagree on the "arm's distance", although for me anything over 15 yards and I'm going to be either looking for my front sight or looking for cover.



Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
No, because once I went through decent training I found out how quickly and accurately you can use your sights and actually be able to tell an investigating officer or a grand jury that I knew exactly where I was putting a round.


I have yet to sit on a shooting board where the officer(s) involved were able to tell me they had a clear sight-picture during an "oh shit!" shoot, regardless of the distance.

I, too, have been to many excellent training classes. I tend to put more stock in classes taught by instructors who have either been shot or been involved in a shooting as seeing the elephant clarifies some of the muddy waters surround training and tactics.


Sheep
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:52:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 5:53:06 AM EST by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
I, too, have been to many excellent training classes. I tend to put more stock in classes taught by instructors who have either been shot or been involved in a shooting as seeing the elephant clarifies some of the muddy waters surround training and tactics.

Sheep


My trainers have been:

Beat cops who have been involved in shootings.
SWAT cops who have been involved in multiple lethal force encounters.
Former member of the SBS.
Former members of various SF units who had combat time logged around the world, including awarding many virgins in Afghanistan and Iraq.

ALL of them used their sights in numerous lethal encounters, even at short distances.

In other words, people who have actually been in gunfights don't tell you that the sights are useless....They weren't teaching untested theory...
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:17:43 AM EST
While I find it funny that John Wayne is the screen name telling everyone to use the sights, he's absolutely correct.
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